Looks like the Right Wing noise machine wins the day again regarding the Move-On ad.

[trumad]

Jane Hampsher sums it up very nicely in a letter to Mrs. Edwards.

Dear Mrs. Edwards,

You’re a smart woman. You of all people should know about the asymmetrical intimidation problem that Paul Krugman talks about — the one where the media is afraid to go after Rudy Guiliani for claiming he’s a rescue worker, but they’ll try to demolish your husband over a haircut because they know that they’ll get swarmed by the right wing noise machine for the former and pay no price for the latter. That’s how it works.

So I was really disappointed today to read at Taylor Marsh’s place that you had joined with Diaper Dave Vitter and John “McCarthy” McCain to attack MoveOn. We (and by that I mean the netroots) defend you when the MSM try to make your campaign a pinata over stupid, insignificant stuff. When they try to say your race should end because of your illness, but don’t say squat about Fred Thompson’s lymphoma. We’re your first line of defense, the only messaging machine that progressives have.

So here’s the rule. You never repeat right wing talking points to attack your own, ever. You never enter that echo chamber as a participant. Ever. You never give them a hammer to beat the left with. Just. Don’t. Do. It.
http://www.firedoglake.com/

[rodeodance]

1. so, will she get this open letter?

[EFerrari]

43. Open letters are a measure of last resort. Most papers won't

publish them. Elizabeth will only get it if she reads FDL or if Jane emails it to the campaign -- just as I emailed mine to Nancy Pelosi.

(And, while I admire Jane and usually agree with her, am not sure she got this one right.)

[rodeodance]

2. btw-----Hil Clinton played it smart--will not respond to Rudy/RW re: content of the ad

[Breeze54]

19. As she doesn't respond to voters questions either!!

http://www.vote-smart.org/npat.php?can_id=55463

Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton REPEATEDLY REFUSED TO PROVIDE ANY
RESPONSES TO CITIZENS ON ISSUES THROUGH THE 2006 NATIONAL POLITICAL AWARENESS TEST
WHEN ASKED TO DO SO
http://www.vote-smart.org/npat.php?can_id=55463

[VP505]

3. That was

well said, when pushed for a comment on things like the Move On Ad, the only thing that need be said by those who have the MSM spotlight is that EVERYONE has a CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to say it.

[William769]

4. I wish some members of DU would take this advice.

"So here’s the rule. You never repeat right wing talking points to attack your own, ever. You never enter that echo chamber as a participant. Ever. You never give them a hammer to beat the left with. Just. Don’t. Do. It."

[Bitwit1234]

12. Hear hear hear......I agree one hundred per cent.But add

don't make up ones of your own.

[Cha]

31. Especially since all the right(fascist)wing

talking points are complete and udder BULLSHIT.

[Vickers]

5. Great letter! I agree with every word.

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

[Lint Head]

6. Hillary needs to mention Admiral James Fallon's quote that

Betray-Us is an 'ass kissing chicken shit' because he does nothing more that parrot the administration's pablum. I would say that would be more insulting than any political statement from MoveOn. The media is not talking about that. :dem:

[monmouth]

7. Well said and kudos.....eom

[Saturday]

8. Isn't it funny how there was no problem....

when Kerry's character was attacked with the swift boat ads but such an outcry over this one. Was every Republican at the time called on to respond to the ad and admonish it? I don't recall that happening. I didn't hear what Mrs Edwards said but Levin and Reed both wagged their fingers at Move On this AM on the talk shows. Disgusting.

[karynnj]

16. That SHOULD have been part of the response

by all but John Kerry himself.

Imagine if all Dems - said the play on his name was likely "over the top", but the ad itself makes some important points. Then added that just as it was despicable to lie about Kerry's service, it is not reasonable to attack a general who did not set the policy - the policy is Bush's and it is NOT working.

[OHdem10]

9. Until Democrats learn to frame in such way as to demolish

Republicans' frame, we will become and stay the minority
party.

"Never Never Never Repeat the RW's position." When you repeat
it, you are affirming them and their position.

Instead of acknowledging their postion on Moveon:

HRC got it right. She simply looed the reporter straight
in the eye and said I think we should be discussing..........

Start REFRAMING the Gop Talking points. Turn their accusation
on them.

Think of ways you can answer without repeating GOP. Have a strong
answer. Change the point of emphasis from GOP to your own.

[Cha]

32. You are so brilliant on this..I

think Dean has been learning this too over the years..

[Mend]

10. please read this Mrs. Edwards....Jane has it just right.

[Mike Nelson]

11. The "Conservative Media" has upped their attack...

... on MoveOn.

[Cha]

33. Time to give

more MOney to Moveon so they can Carry ON! :)

[H2O Man]

13. Interesting.

I'm curious why you think this is evidence the right wing noise machine won? Do you think Ms. Hampsher is better qualified than Ms. Edwards to determine the correct response in all things political, most things, or just this one?

[Rex]

20. Actually, if you look at the posts here it is obvious Moveon won

I mean, how many DUrs didn't know about Moveon until this came up!? Best 65k ever spent IMO.

[trumad]

39. Yes I do.

[H2O Man]

40. Do what?

[trumad]

41. I think that Jane is more in tune with our base than Mrs. Edwards.

Hey--mho

[H2O Man]

46. Okay, thanks.,

I think that Jane H may be more in touch with parts of the base; I suspect that Ms. Edwards is probably in touch with more of the democratic party. But that is just my opinion.

[trumad]

48. OK---let's put it this way...

Edwards was wrong for parroting right-wind talking points. mho

[H2O Man]

49. I did not

agree with her on that issue. I do not view it in terms of right versus wrong. Her opinion is different than mine, about an issue that decent people can hold different opinions on. My impression is that Ms. Edwards is unlike to "parrot" anyone.

[OHdem10]

14. Breaking--- Bill Schneider, CNN Political Analyst and no

Democrat.

He says the MoveOn Ad is a distraction which the GOP
used to rally their base...in the end, this whole
thing may come back to haunt the Republicans.

He further explained only rank and file Republicans
no Independents, no Democrats have changed their positions
on any of this War Debate.

This is important: He explained that the real reason
the Democrats cannot force the President to change--The
GOP Base is sticking with the President. This hurts
the Republicans --they cannot distance themselves from
GWB. Independents and Democrats are just as strongly
opposed as ever.

MoveOn was a distraction. Thank our weakneed Dems for
their courage.

[Breeze54]

21. Spot On!! We're going to have to pay attention and fight even harder....

Now!

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Cha]

34. Weakneed Dems!

"Weak" from all that genuflecting? :(

[waiting for hope]

15. Would you really call what she said

a Right Wing talking point?

MoveOn.org should not have labeled Gen. David Petraeus "General Betray Us" in a controversial newspaper ad, Elizabeth Edwards said in Des Moines on Friday.

"Someone who's spent their life in the military doesn't deserve 'General Betray Us,' " said Edwards, wife of Democratic presidential candidate John Edwards.

Elizabeth Edwards noted that her father was a career naval officer, and she said she respects military service.

~Snip~

Elizabeth Edwards said the group could have made its point by using Petraeus' own previous words about purported good news in Iraq without insulting him personally.

She said she generally supports grass-roots organizations like MoveOn.org for giving average people a voice. "But I'm probably not going to agree with everything that any one group says," she said.

Her views on the ad were similar to those expressed Thursday by U.S. Sen. Tom Harkin. The Iowa Democrat said that the MoveOn.org ad "was a bad choice of words. I would have said, 'Petraeus, mistaken again,' " Harkin said. "But 'Betray Us?' That's going too far."

http://desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070915/NEWS09/709150332/-1/ent05

Elizabeth Edwards has said many times that we should raise the level of political dialogue, not lower it. Calling Gen. Petraeus names doesn't further the cause. Case in point:

Elizabeth Edwards has a message for Ann Coulter: Stop the hate!

The wife of presidential candidate John Edwards called in to MSNBC's Hardball with Chris Matthews on Tuesday to confront the conservative pundit – who was a guest on the program – on the personal attacks she has made on the Edwards family.

“It lowers our political dialogue precisely at the time that we need to raise it,” Edwards said. “So I want to use the opportunity … to ask her politely stop the personal attacks.”

She continued: "These young people behind you are the age of my children. You’re asking them to participate in a dialogue that’s based on hatefulness and ugliness instead of on the issues and I don’t think that’s serving or this country very well."

~Snip~

http://usmagazine.com/ann_coulter_and_elizabeth_edwards

She saw the ad as a personal attack and I, for one, support her on this. Flame away, but if we are to stoop to RW talking points by name calling, then we are no better off.

[stimbox]

18. Yes

There was no name calling.
To misappropriate another poster's assertion, moveon did not call him a poopyhead.
They used a funny play on words to ask a question.
The name calling thing is the RW talking point.

[waiting for hope]

23. Can you read?

That's is name calling - what if someone did this?

stimbox or shitbox?

Please, don't say that is doesn't infer you are a shitbox.

[stimbox]

24. That's a question too.

Just like "Waiting For Hope or Waiting For Dope?" is a question.
It's up to you to read and decide.

[waiting for hope]

26. You really don't get it -

do you?

[stimbox]

28. Oh I get IT.

You, on the other hand, are regurgitating RW spin and distraction in defense of Elizabeth's faux paux.

[waiting for hope]

35. RW spin my ass -

I am not - read what she said. She is from a military family. And, BTW, shitbox, I took offense to your Waiting for Dope analogy. If you knew anything about "class" and what is effective, you wouldn't be attacking me. This type of dialogue is soooo akin to Ann Coutler:

The Slander author has been taking shots at the family for years. In 2003, she accused Edwards of using the death of his son Wade, who was killed in a car accident in 1996, to milk the public’s sympathy for political gain.

Coulter wrote in a November 2003 column: “If you want points for not using your son's death politically, don't you have to take down all those ‘Ask me about my son's death in a horrific car accident’ bumper stickers?”

On Monday, she remarked during an interview with Good Morning America,“If I’m going to say anything about John Edwards in the future, I’ll just wish that he had been killed in a terrorist assassination plot.”

http://usmagazine.com/ann_coulter_and_elizabeth_edwards

I would prefer to distance myself from the RW tactic of name calling:

http://mediamatters.org/items/200706260004

http://bravenewfilms.org/blog/2671-bill-o-reilly-name-calling-mashup?play=1

http://www.rushlimbaughonline.com/articles/rush_limbaugh_graphics.htm

http://mediamatters.org/items/200701240010

It's not a pretty picture - which is why right-wing partisans try so hard to discredit anyone who tries to explain to the public what's going on.

These partisans rely in part on obfuscation: shaping, slicing and selectively presenting data in an attempt to mislead. For example, it's a plain fact that the Bush tax cuts heavily favor the rich, especially those who derive most of their income from inherited wealth. Yet this year's Economic Report of the President, in a bravura demonstration of how to lie with statistics, claimed that the cuts "increased the overall progressivity of the federal tax system."

The partisans also rely in part on scare tactics, insisting that any attempt to limit inequality would undermine economic incentives and reduce all of us to shared misery. That claim ignores the fact of U.S. economic success after World War II. It also ignores the lesson we should have learned from recent corporate scandals: sometimes the prospect of great wealth for those who succeed provides an incentive not for high performance, but for fraud.

Above all, the partisans engage in name-calling. To suggest that sustaining programs like Social Security, which protects working Americans from economic risk, should have priority over tax cuts for the rich is to practice "class warfare." To show concern over the growing inequality is to engage in the "politics of envy."

http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0610-24.htm

[stimbox]

45. Project much?

I know plenty about class. I also don't work against mine.
You, just like Elizabeth and many others are attacking, the wrong people.
General Betrayus is not our friend. He is a partisan Repuke who painted a rosy picture of the surge by cherry picking the facts.
Fuck this playing nice shit.

[VP505]

37. The only

thing not being gotten is the ?

[creeksneakers2]

52. The right wing calls names 100 times a day

Why does the left have to apologize? I think Mrs. Edwards should have said that MoveOn.org should apologize as soon as Republicans denounce Anne Coulter for calling her husband a "fagot."

Whether MoveOn.org is right or wrong is irrelevant. What is relevant is that the right wing is allowed to question Democrats but Democrats aren't allowed to question the right. The right wing gets away with name calling and lying and smearing. The media is the accomplice of the right wing. Why can a punk like Rudy Giuliani demand answers?

The right wing's attitude about being questioned is shown on this very incident. They say General Betray Us shouldn't be called a liar when he is one. According to the wingers, questioning them is a sacrilege.

Mrs. Edwards is on the wrong side of this one. So are many other Democrats. By caving they give the right wing power. Mrs. Edwards is supporting the bully.

Hillary showed herself to be one of the gutsiest on this one.

*NOTE* MoveOn.org plans to run $50,000.00 worth of ads in Iowa that will call attention to how Giuliani quit the Iraq Study Group but had time to give speeches for money. I'm going to donate to MoveOn.org right away for this!

[Breeze54]

17. That is sooo perfectly stated!!!

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

:kick: & Recommended!!

[Beelzebud]

22. With Dems tripping over each other to cry and apologize, of course they win again.

[BootinUp]

25. Moveon played right into the RW hands, worst political strategy I've seen in years. n/t

[CanonRay]

27. We caught some flak from a RW Wacko yesterday over the Move On ad

We had a Dem Party booth at a local fair, and a guy in a Christian Biker vest came up and said our sign should say "Move On.org" instead of Fremont County Democrats. We told him he'd been watching Faux News too long, and he moved on. My worry is that EVERY candidate who gets money from MoveOn will be tarred with this brush, which seems to have entered the kool-aid recipe.

[Cha]

36. Don't play into their bully hands.

Who cares what brush a bunch of facist idiots want to paint? Moveon told told the truth ..stand up and be proud,imo.

I thought that good that you said he had been watching fauxnoise too much..Perfecto!

[ShortnFiery]

44. "EVERY candidate who gets money from MoveOn will be tarred with this brush"

Only because our Candidates ONCE AGAIN, let the right wing noise machine intimidate them into backing down, if not enabling that talking point. :(

[Diane R]

29. Elizabeth Edwards keeps saying things she shouldn't. n/t

[Cha]

30. I'm so with Jane Hamsher on this..

It's just logical with tons of experience behind us.

Elizabeth Edwards could have said that the ad was forthright but that her father was a military man so she grew up not being comfortable critizing the military but JEEZE ..sometimes ya just gotta if the frigin' general is toady of buSHIT!

[OwnedByFerrets]

38. K & R

[ShortnFiery]

42. "You never give them a hammer to beat the left with. Just. Don’t. Do. It."

I can't believe that Democratic Candidates continue to use liberals as a whipping post. However, when the time comes for voting they'll scream, "Be a team player and vote for us!" Hello?!? It goes both ways. Even triangulating HRC knew to "not comment." What does that tell you? :thumbsdown:

[Evergreen Emerald]

47. Beautiful

[Disturbed]

50. Ms Edwards should have actually read the Ad.

She and many other Dems played right into the Rethug frame. Most Dems do not know
how to fight the Fascists.

[eridani]

51. Amen! Send it to John Kerry as well.

I cringed when I heard him apologize about MoveOn. Why in bleeding hell was he faster to defend Petraeus than he was in his own self defense four years ago?