People here who think single-payer healthcare is possible are smoking some good shit

[Herman Munster]

It boils down to the simple fact that Americans are greedy and selfish. Those that like their current health coverage don't want to change for an unknown quantity especially given our government's recent failure to be competent in anything we do from the Iraq war, or Katrina, or the passport mess...the government is seen as one big colossal fuck up.

Until the 60+% of americans that have good quality affordable coverage through their employer start losing that coverage and scream bloody hell, only baby-step programs that attack things on the margins like Clinton's, Obama's, and Edward's are politically feasible. Maybe in 20 years it will be politically feasible.

So for now be happy with baby steps or move to Canada or France. Single-Payer is probably not going to happen for 20-50 years in this country, if ever.

[bryant69]

1. Hell why try to pass any progressive measures

What's the point, if Americans are Greedy and Selfish?

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[SammyWinstonJack]

2. ...

:thumbsup:

[liberaldemocrat7]

6. Please look at my signature in order to get single payer universal health care passed.

Look at the signature here below.

[Toots]

3. You should see the movie Sicko

It is about those Americans with good health care... Check it out..

[ananda]

4. Of course it's possible!

And I am not smoking anything.

[Herman Munster]

5. really?

the top 3 democratic candidates aren't proposing it. So how's it possible?

[Highway61]

11. It's possible if everyone donated to Dennis's campaign

the "top three" are getting $$$ from drug and insurance comapnies...you don't bite the hands that feed you. Dennis CAN'T be bought. It's up to the American people to help him...his solution is healthcare for all...non profit...period

[raccoon]

7. I agree with your basic point,

"Until the 60+% of americans that have good quality affordable coverage through their employer start losing that coverage and scream bloody hell"

But I don't think it will take 20 years.

Also, corporations are starting to bellyache about the high cost of health care in the US. Now, TPTB listen to THEM.

[frogcycle]

8. your post is accurate; title unfortunate

you admit it might be possible in 20 years. You admit that baby steps are the way to get to it.

Edwards is spot-on when he says doing it in one fell swoop is not going to happen. But he also makes clear that he thinks single payer is the goal. The tactic of offering coverage to the 40% and an alternative to the 60% is just good business sense. "Build a better mousetrap..." Presuming that the government-sponsored program can compete with those supposedly great programs that fight tooth and nail against paying, the 60% will vote with their feet. Done right, his plan will either put them out of business or force them to actually provide the "good quality" coverage they claim to. Either way we win.

I agree with you wholeheartedly that taking a stubborn "all or nothing" position is self-defeating. But why intentionally attack people who, after all, we would rather bring around to our way of thinking than drive further into a corner?

[KittyWampus]

9. Very few people currently "like their current health coverage" and most have either been screwed

by their health insurance coverage or know someone personally who has.

Everyone also knows someone on Medicare.

A Single-Payer system that works.

"Medicare for all Americans". How freaking simple is that? How effective a slogan?

[NewJeffCT]

10. I agree that single-payer healthcare won't happen overnight

Even if Dems picked up seats in the Senate & House, and won the presidency, it would not happen right away.

The most likely outcome that will happen in the next 5-10 years would be adopting a system like they have in Switzerland, where the government provides for those that do not get their health insurance through their work.

Even then, I don't know if that system would be implemented overnight. Most likely, they would expand coverage so children under 18 are guaranteed health coverage, then expand it from there until everybody is covered through private or public insurance.

[Trajan]

12. This is one silly ass assertion .....

And really cynical as well ....

[sinkingfeeling]

13. What makes you think that 60+% of those with health insurance believe that it is

'good quality affordable coverage'? Most employer-provided insurance costs employees plenty, has high deductibles, and is so-so in coverage.

[Saturday]

14. If single payer health care doesn't work....

then why do the President, VP, Congress and all federal employees have it? It seems to work just fine for them.

[peace13]

15. Just out of curiosity what kind of insurance do you have

because I am shopping? My premiums for three people went from $1400 a month to $2300 a month so you see I am willing to talk about all options. Peace, Kim

[Herman Munster]

16. my health insurance

I am a federal employee and pay $40 every two weeks as a single person. FWIW, Hillary's plan allows people to buy into the federal employee health insurance program that I have or medicare.

[endarkenment]

18. Well that figures.

Only those folks already in a huge well funded plan would think that people like the way things are.

Everyone I know thinks their health insurance plan sucks and gets suckier every year.

[peace13]

21. So true!

Even tough I pay huge premiums I hate to go to the doctor because if she finds something wrong my premiums will be out of site within 12 months. Go figure. Peace, Kim

[annabanana]

23. And which of those stellar FEHB choices are you signed on with?

How good is it really?

[endarkenment]

17. It will happen as it is the only viable solution.

The problem is that nothing else actually will work. All the other proposals do not actually deal with the problem of providing decent affordable healthcare to all citizens. All the other proposals leave the current broken system intact.

[spindoctor]

19. How many people with health insurance are being forced into HSA's?

It's not just expensive for employees, but for employers as well. Many companies don't want to contribute to health insurance anymore and chose to offer their people Health Savings Accounts (doomed to fail) instead.

People who prefer their expensive collective insurance over a guaranteed universal health care plan aren't selfish, they are at best uninformed and possibly stupid.

[Yavin4]

20. A Rebuttal To Your Post

>>It boils down to the simple fact that Americans are greedy and selfish.<<

True.

>>Those that like their current health coverage don't want to change for an unknown quantity especially given our government's recent failure to be competent in anything we do from the Iraq war, or Katrina, or the passport mess...the government is seen as one big colossal fuck up. <<

Unlike HMOs? HMOs are getting worse and worse. Currently, most people only have the illusion of coverage. Those that actually use HMO coverage will tell you horror stories.

>>Until the 60+% of americans that have good quality affordable coverage through their employer start losing that coverage and scream bloody hell, only baby-step programs that attack things on the margins like Clinton's, Obama's, and Edward's are politically feasible. Maybe in 20 years it will be politically feasible.<<

As the middle class paying jobs in mfg and IT go overseas, the new jobs that are being created do not carry health insurance as a benefit. So, more and more workers will be working without coverage.

>>Single-Payer is probably not going to happen for 20-50 years in this country, if ever.<<

I would agree with you, but employment trends are running counter to that. More and more Americans will cease getting coverage from their places of work because that makes American workers more expensive. If this trend continues, American workers will demand a single payer health care system.

[annabanana]

22. Just how many people do you think "like" their current coverage?

Employer "provided" health care ain't what it's cracked up to be. And MY guess is that this number is a helluvalot lower than your hypothesis will support.

[treestar]

24. Interesting point

We are individualistic and selfish, yet at the same time, demand that tribal in group sort of unity when it comes to a war - or, that's the only time we can drum it up.

We're supposed to care about Americans losing their lives more than Iraqis, and believe only Americans have human rights. Yet we are the least cohesive society on the planet.

The same right wingers who expect total unity in cultural matters doesn't care if Americans die due to lack of healthcare.

[mdmc]

25. ditto to those who think HRC stands for change

Like Lennon used to say Whatever gets you through the night.

I actually think that most Americans think the pharmaceutical / medical corporations need to be reeled in.
I think most 'mericans believe that there is a better way.

The corporations don't want change. The sheeple may want change, but are resigned to rule by corporations, for corporations. The sheeple know that politicians only want what is best for corporations.

[Hamlette]

26. I agree

I love my private health provider, which happens to be the state. I'm not sure how happy I'd be with turning it over to the feds.

BUT, a lot of the fear of federal government programs is propaganda spread by the GOP just to stop things like single payer.

FDR fought for single payer health care and couldn't come close.

It's been a progressive dream for 65 years. We are chipping away at the edges which as the OP said might be the best we can do.

[mdmc]

27. and when we do get single payer coverage, it will be the GOP that gives it to us

Just like ending the drug war. The dems will quietly oppose the drug war, and will be surprised when the business wing of the GOP states that the war is lost and that drugs should be regulated.

The poor dems never realize that they need to fight the fights that need fighting, not just the fights that they can win.

The American people are never ready for change (look at slavery, for instance). The dems never thought that the sheeple would overturn "property rights" (slavery). The GOP did it.

[Bluebear]

28. "move to Canada or France" - that has a ring to it from 2004

[LanternWaste]

29. or we simply disagree with your assessment...

We're either smoking some good stuff or we simply disagree with your assessment. I've heard too many people at my office (deep in the heart of red-state, bush-lovin' TX) with good insurance complain about the insurance companies while giving consideration to the single-payer system.

The social programs of the 30's happened pretty quickly, I think if we focus ourselves, single-payer could too.