SO I got my new NC license with the Department of Homeland Security RF ID chip in it

[Progressive_In_NC]

I'm so proud, we're the first in the nation to be tagged like animals.

:sarcasm:


==============================================================

http://apostille.us/news/nc_first_to_add_drivers_license_security_feature.shtml

The North Carolina Division of Motor Vehicles is the first driver's license agency in the United States and Canada to add a new design feature to driver's licenses. According to NCDMV spokesperson Marge Howell, the design will increase security, protect against document fraud and aid law enforcement officials in identifying suspects.

Mrs. Howell said that all North Carolina law enforcement agencies will be receiving notification of the new driver's license design in the next few weeks.

She said the licenses are being fitted with an optical variable device on the back that serves as a common security element. The OVD is a foil-based holographic security patch that carries design features both visible and invisible to the human eye, including a variety of codes, numbers, 3-D and fluorescent images and other items.

"Although the new license does include some features that aren't visible to the human eye, officials will not need special reader equipment," Mrs. Howell said. "If there is a question about the validity of a license the official may bring it in for closer examination and testing."

NCDMV officials say the new licenses, which will eventually be used all over the United States and in Canada, will take several years to distribute.

[aquart]

1. Oh, this should be entertaining.

Hey, forgers need a challenge.

[Swamp Rat]

2. Smash all RF ID chips!

[Rex]

6. Hey now!

How can they watch us all if you tell 'consumers' how to defeat their 'system of freedom'! Why Swamp Rat, why do you keep on 'hating freedom'!? Don't you know we drive cars over here so we don't have to drive cars over there!?

[Vincardog]

8. No just take a power cord and strip the wires place one wire on each side of the chip and plug it in

FRY it

[Swamp Rat]

12. You first!

:D zzzzzT!

[Vincardog]

9. No just take a power cord and strip the wires place one wire on each side of the chip and plug it in

FRY it

[KoKo]

35. Would sticking it in the Microwave with a zap do it? But then "THEY" wouldn't allow you to drive

get a passport or do anything. "GIF ME DA PAPERS!" or you will "NOT PASS THIS POINT!"

[CT_Progressive]

3. I wonder how it holds up to the washing machine/microwave/other place I 'accidentally' put it ?

:)

[soothsayer]

5. 10 secs in the microwave should do i. or maybe a strong magnet?

[truebrit71]

11. Try both.

Just to be sure.... ;-)

[ChairmanAgnostic]

17. when one has a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

I have a huge sledge.

[leftchick]

31. do you think that would work?

my husband has to renew his next month. I am sort of scared of the microwave suggestion. Why the hell not a hammer?

[conscious evolution]

19. MRI nt

[Rex]

25. I'm surprised my state (Texas) didn't flop all over itself to be the first at this.

Guess they are to busy telling teachers they must teach religion in the classroom! Ugh.

[Patsy Stone]

4. Kenneth?

What is the frequency?

[Whoa_Nelly]

7. re: validity-- "...official may bring it in for closer examination and testing."

Am now going to be looking for stories of people having their licenses taken from them because there will always be a percentage of cops who will consider the new a phony.
maybe...

I will get out my personal RDIF locater when I am in your state. Hopefully I can get your info from it and use it somehow...
:silly: + :sarcasm:

[Desertrose]

10. I don't suppose we can just say "no thankyou",can we?

Wonder what they'll do when everyone starts frying their licenses.



DR

[roamer65]

13. Or rather than destroying the chip, you can use a Faraday cage on it.

A couple layers of aluminum foil folded around it should do the trick. That should render it unreadable until you remove it from the foil.

[DaveJ]

14. I thought they weren't readable unless they are placed close to something?

Maybe I'm wrong. At any rate, anyone who tries (Edit: and gets caught) to circumvent the surveillance will probably be placed higher on the terror suspect list. So people might want to think twice.

[intaglio]

24. Close is relative

If the reader isembeded in the road ...

[DaveJ]

27. True, I just realized we have it here

We have IPASS and open road tolling so we can drive through at top speed, and it still knows we passed from like 20+ yards away.

I'm still not convinced these licenses have RFID in them, but if they do that's significant news that people should be a little concerned about. I mean, I'm not promoting the technology, but if the HAVE to track our movements, they should also use the technology for benevolent purposes like finding missing people and such.

[Trillo]

41. Or they'll presume that person doesn't carry ID.

I see a new market for foil wallets developing....

[Skink]

15. Where does it talk about RFID?

[Progressive_In_NC]

18. Seafan's journal has some more info about it

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/seafan/1280

=============================================================================
However, I did reach an examiner in a Wake County Drivers License Office who said North Carolina does use RFID Technology and that she thought it had been in use since November of 2006. I spoke with another DMV employee in Raleigh who informed me that I would need to contact Marge Howell in the communications office. I have tried several times to reach Ms. Howell and only get voicemail. I will post an update after I speak with her.


"It was a sad day for me today as I called the local DMV. My cousin showed me her Renewed drivers licenses yesterday, and to my surprise there on the back was a new type of hologram. However as I came to find out today thru DMV sources it's not just a hologram it in fact is a new trackable chip. They said in fact it was a new homeland security project for this state. The officer also said that the cards which are trackable is just the first step in the new project, she also stated that other states had their own projects but that eventually all states would in fact be merged into the same system. This news shocked me to say the least but she also added that they were in fact doing facial recognitions as well to go into the database. However, before answering my questions she had a couple of her own such as, why do you want to know? Have you been involved with fake ID's etc. etc. I laughed and assured her that in fact I was just a concerned citizen, and that I found it ironic how we are not the terrorists but that we have to submit to being treated as such. She however didn't seem amused. What as a nation have we allowed? Well as for me my drivers licenses don't expire until 2010, and until I move to a state that doesn't have such a policy or the policy itself is rescinded I'll stick with the ones I have!"

[Roland99]

16. Is an OVD the same as an RFID chip?

[ProdigalJunkMail]

22. no... n/t

[orleans]

20. a right-wing "friend" told me israel has chips in the cars so they

can track you--i would think they also have it going in the license

[soothsayer]

32. they're already in your tires (for inventory purposes)

[orleans]

33. oh, creeeeeeepy. n/t

[DaveJ]

21. Also.. People are peeved that it has North America on it

Sort of OT, but I am now looking at this: http://stopspp.com/stopspp/?p=310

People are upset that the license is apparently promoting the North American Union. Personally, I don't see the big deal. The U.S. is smack dab in the middle, and you can even see the edges of other continents. I guess people just want to consider themselves on an island.

[starmaker]

29. It's a done deal

The north american union is coming as the deep intergration
of government and business is way ahead of anything they tell us.
Step by little step under the guise of something good for total control.
Remember that behind every good reason is the real reason.
Has your gov't ever lied to you?

[catmandu57]

23. Join the resistance

Drive without a license.

[JDPriestly]

26. And what is next? A law requiring you to carry the thing with you at all times.

It is all in your own best interest, they will say.

A chemical engineer who took the oath in NAZI Germany and allowed fugitives to hide out in his apartment until his arrest and imprisonment in 1943 stated after WWII:

"You are an American," he said again, smiling. "I will explain. There I was, in 1935, a perfect example of the kind of person who, with all his advantages in birth, in education, and in position, rules (or might easily rule) in my country. If I had refused to take the oath in 1935, it would have meant that thousands and thousands like me, all over Germany, were refusing to take it. Their refusal would have heartened millions. Thus the regime would have been overthrown, or, indeed, would never have come to power in the first place. The fact that I was not prepared to resist, in 1935, meant that all the thousands, hundreds of thousands, like me in Germany were also unprepared, and each one of these hundreds of thousands was, like me, a man of great influence or of great potential influence. Thus the world was lost." page 180

A teacher who lived in Germany prior to WWII stated:

"You know, . . . when men who understand what is happening -- the motion, that is, of history, not the reports of single events or developments -- when such men do not object or protest, men who do not understand cannot be expected to. How many men would you san understand -- in this sense -- in America? And when, as the motion of history accelerates and those who don't understand are crazed by fear, as our people were, and made into a great 'patriotic' mob, will they understand then, when they did not before?

"We learned here -- I say this freely -- to give up trying to make them understand after, oh the end of 1938, after the night of the synagogue burning and the things that followed it. Even before the war began, men who were teachers, men whose faith in teaching was their whole faith, gave up, seeing that there was no comprehension, no capacity left for comprehension, and the thing must go its course, taking first its victims, then its architects, and then the rest of us to destruction. This did not mean surrender; it meant conservation of energy, doing what little one could (now that it was too late to do anything!) and consuming one's energy doing it, to relieve the present victim (if only by brazenly saying 'Hello' to him on the street!) and to prevent, or at least postpone, the fate of the next victim (if only by writing a 'nonpolitical' letter abroad asking somebody to take an emigrant!)." pages 175-176

Milton Mayer, They Thought They Were Free (U. Chicago Press 1955)

[followthemoney]

38. An excellent book. I will never forget it.

Extensive records were kept from interrogations routinely done on people new to a town.

[kestrel91316]

28. I wonder what would happen if everybody just accidentally

damaged the chip on their licenses........

[RC]

30. They would be redesigned to resist the new damage.

BTY, they tried to use the RFID used in the new passports at a border crossing as an experiment and it failed. They had placed a picked-up under the overhead canopy. Unless the passport was placed on the dash, it had trouble reading it. Even on the dash it failed at too high a rate. Vehicles do make good Faraday shields

[KoKo]

34. Mr. KoKo had to get new drivers license because Crap Outsourcing of his Photo Faded

He spent about 6 hours over four days trying to get just his picture retaken because of the flaw in the photographic equipment (privatized) that allowed his photo to fade...so he had to renew three years before his licesnse expired...AND...he got the HOLOGRAM! It's there ...the New North American Free Trade Hologram! I'm wondering if he can place a "foil patch" over the damned thing to stop whatever info they transferred after Homeland Security attached his SS Number and what we Pay for our Mortgage to the damned thing.

ONE GOOD THING! He didn't have to do a Retina Scan. So...this is the FIRST STEP ..they haven't got it all working with what they want to do yet...but IT'S COMING! Just carrying around a hologram map of the new North American Corridor is enough to send chills. :scared:

[Megahurtz]

36. Creepy!

:scared:

If they can't embed it in us they'll stick it in our I.D.'s.

[cui bono]

37. Well people need to refuse it. Seriously. Peaceful resistence.

Also, can it be cut out with a razor blade? Is there any law against doing so? Is that defacing government property or anything?

My friend swears that someone he knows who is against paying taxes and such got a valid driver's license on a 3x5 index card. Time to find out about that. I think the state was CA but I'm not sure.

[Hissyspit]

39. Ha! I just renewed mine last week for 8 years and got the old-fashioned kind.

Cape Hatteras lighthouse design.

[Trillo]

40. The article says nothing about RFID.

It says it's optical, not radio. Are you asserting that it does in fact contain RF identification?

[Progressive_In_NC]

42. I called the DMV and the guy who answered the phone told me it had RFID plus Seafan's journal has

some more about other folks asking as well.


http://journals.democraticunderground.com/seafan/1280

=============================================================================
However, I did reach an examiner in a Wake County Drivers License Office who said North Carolina does use RFID Technology and that she thought it had been in use since November of 2006. I spoke with another DMV employee in Raleigh who informed me that I would need to contact Marge Howell in the communications office. I have tried several times to reach Ms. Howell and only get voicemail. I will post an update after I speak with her.


"It was a sad day for me today as I called the local DMV. My cousin showed me her Renewed drivers licenses yesterday, and to my surprise there on the back was a new type of hologram. However as I came to find out today thru DMV sources it's not just a hologram it in fact is a new trackable chip. They said in fact it was a new homeland security project for this state. The officer also said that the cards which are trackable is just the first step in the new project, she also stated that other states had their own projects but that eventually all states would in fact be merged into the same system. This news shocked me to say the least but she also added that they were in fact doing facial recognitions as well to go into the database. However, before answering my questions she had a couple of her own such as, why do you want to know? Have you been involved with fake ID's etc. etc. I laughed and assured her that in fact I was just a concerned citizen, and that I found it ironic how we are not the terrorists but that we have to submit to being treated as such. She however didn't seem amused. What as a nation have we allowed? Well as for me my drivers licenses don't expire until 2010, and until I move to a state that doesn't have such a policy or the policy itself is rescinded I'll stick with the ones I have!"

[Trillo]

43. Here's a software product that claims to detect RFID chips

http://www.rf-dump.org/
via linuxquestions.org
It sounds like if there is a RFID chip on it, and you get a reader, this software will tell you about whether the claims are true.

Additionally, there are lots of gizmos to help.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&as_qdr=all&q=+RFID+detection&btnG=Search

I wonder whether this has to do with selling lots of gizmos and widgets.

[Greylyn58]

44. Well, I guess I'll be joining you either before the years end

or by March 2008 (whenever I decide to do it) as I have to renew my license by then.

And I agree with you...I think this new RF chip is just more Brother Brother crap and will not do anything for me.

UGH!!!!!

[TalkingDog]

45. How to disable a RFID chip:

http://www.spychips.com/faqs.html

Q: What do I do if I find an RFID chip? Can I kill or disable it?
A: You can disable a chip for all practical purposes by disconnecting it from its antenna. It is usually pretty obvious where the chip is located in an RFID tag (all the antennas will run to it). Once you find the tiny black square you can use a pair of scissors or a knife to cut it off. To ensure that the tiny chip cannot later be read (assuming anyone could even find a device so small), you can puncture it with a straight pin, crush it, or pulverize it. (Note: While burning or microwaving can destroy a chip, we do not recommend these methods because of fire risk. See the Q & A below.) Do not try to "drown" it, since water does not generally destroy RFID chips. Running a magnet over the chip will not work, either.

Q: Can I microwave products to kill any hidden RFID tags they might contain?
A: While microwaving an RFID tag will destroy it (a microwave emits high frequency electromagnetic energy that overloads the antenna, eventually blowing out the chip), there is a good chance the the tag will burst into flames first. The difficulty of destroying a hidden RFID chip is one reason we need legislation making it illegal to hide a chip in an item in the first place.

Q: Will a magnet erase an RFID chip?
A: No, the chips are not magnetically encoded. Running a magnet over the chip or using a tape eraser will not affect the chip.

Q: Can chips in clothing survive the washer and dryer?
A: Yes. Many RFID tags are designed to withstand years of normal wear and tear, including washing and drying. In fact, we know of at least one uniform rental company that uses RFID chips to keep track of its inventory. The chips hold up under the rough handling and commercial washings.

Q: Does U.S. currency contain RFID chips?
A: To the best of our knowledge, US currency does NOT currently contain RFID chips.

Q: What's the read range of these chips? Can they be tracked by satellite?
A: There are two types of tags: "passive" (no independent power source) and "active" (containing a battery or attached to one). Depending on a number of factors (antenna size, RF frequency, environmental conditions etc.) a passive tag can have a range of anywhere from 1 inch to 40 feet. Active tags can have a read range of miles or more. Most tags being considered for use in consumer products are passive.


http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/15.01/start.html?pg=9

4) The best approach? Hammer time. Hitting the chip with a blunt, hard object should disable it. A nonworking RFID doesn’t invalidate the passport, so you can still use it.

My Favorite Master Artist: Karen Parker GhostWoman Studios

[Blashyrkh]

46. This is why I don't have a license.

The second they start putting chips into cards here, I'll start walking around with my birth certificate in my pocket.

I am highly distrustful of government ID.