Health Care....What's Lacking Is Political Leadership!

[slipslidingaway]

And an unbiased media would certainly help :(

Now that all the health care plans are on the table here are a few videos that describe HR 676, Conyers/Kucinich plan with 77 cosponsors, and how Kucinich would use his platform to advance the legislation. He estimates that this would take roughly three years to implement.

All the other plans leave the wealthiest and healthiest people in our nation with the option of private insurance, those who have the most needs and who will be the most expensive to care for will be insured by the government.

Does that sound like a good plan for the government or for the private insurance companies?

Short videos

Des Moines Register Q & A : Health Care : Kucinich
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PcMb9SDbZ8

Dennis Kucinich on his Universal Healthcare Plan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOB0f3I1AXk


In depth discussion on health care, 2 parts

Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjA3CV95i4

Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FNp0wjAgfo


snips from the first video...

Speaking of the government paying for Medicare and Medicaid which props up insurance company profits by removing two segments of citizens who have high health care needs.

Arnie Arnesen

"We left the insurance company with the youngest, healthiest people and no wonder they are making a profit, because we've taken away the most expensive part of healthcare, which obviously is going to constantly sink us like a stone. Because insurance is about spreading the risk, we don't spread the risk, in fact what we do is prop up the insurance industry. Which is why they are so frightened about changing anything in the way of a system because it is about their profits and their CEO's and not about our healthcare..."

Dennis Kucinich

"For profit insurance companies make money not providing healthcare..."

[xchrom]

1. whether it's the bankruptcy bill or healthcare -- politicians need to STOP thinking

of their constituents and fellow citizens as CONSUMERS.

what the fuck -- it's that simple -- i am not a consumer -- i am a citizen.

[slipslidingaway]

4. Yes and as human beings...everyone! n/t

[Cleita]

2. It doesn't help either that one of our Presidential candidates

is touting the same plan, written by the health care lobbyists, that Arnold Schwarzenegger is trying to push on California. How clever of the health care industry to get a so-called Democrat to back their plan as if it were her own. It confuses people as many of the posts on DU have evidenced. But it's a start, they say. It's the only way we will get something, they say. Get real. The health care and insurance industries have given away nothing in the the past decades and they won't give away anything this time either. It's just another opportunity for them to raid taxpayer dollars for their proft.

It won't pass Congress anyway, especially a Democratic one, because the Democrats know it's fiscally irresponsible. Either way the insurers win. If this plan is implemented, they will get new sources of revenue. If it doesn't pass, they can keep doing business as usual. In the meantime the people lose. Thanks for nothing Hillary.

[antigop]

5. Thanks for that, Cleita.

I am now referring to her as "sHillary" -- as in corporate SHILL.

[Cleita]

9. Hi there.

I was wondering where the DUers were who actually know something about this issue.

:hi:

[antigop]

10. And if this is her current plan, what is she willing to compromise on to make it even worse? n/t

[Cleita]

11. I know. No need to worry. It won't pass.

However, it means another eight years of no health care for the same people, the ones who need it the most.

[slipslidingaway]

6. How does Hillary's plan differ from Edwards' plan, even Edwards

mentioned something about Hillary imitating his plan. Why single out Hillary?

[Cleita]

7. Edward's plan actually has a strategy in it to force the insurance

companies to compete with Medicare. Hillary's plan doesn't. There is a big difference if you look carefully at how it may play out. Also, Hillary keeps saying how "complicated" the issue is. Whenever someone tries to tell me I'm too stupid to understand the complexities of issues that I'm supposed to learn about because I am expected to vote on them, I see a big fat elephant in the room dictating talking points.

[bobbolink]

12. Bingo! I puzzled for a while when Edwards announced his plan, but now I think it's really smart!

He's going for the very same thing the Kucinich is, but ..... the "transfer" is different. People WILL choose the single-payer version in time, and fade out the insurance companies in a very natural way. It's just a different path to get to the same place, and may very well be the smartest way to do that.

He and Dennis are friends, and I have absolutely no doubt that he will accept a lot of "counsel" from Dennis on all this, if he's in the White House, and gets to implement his plan.

"I see a big fat elephant in the room dictating talking points."

:rofl:

The only thing "complicated" about her plan, is how to keep the insurance fat cats fat and happy, while making the citizenry think they are actually getting a health care plan!

[Cleita]

14. Hi Bobbolink.

I see the gang is coming together again on this issue.

:hi:

[bobbolink]

43. I took your name in vain in another thread.

:hi:

[slipslidingaway]

13. Would you point to that part in the plan? Are you speaking of

his idea to have the private insurance companies spend 85% of the premiums on care? Do we have to pass legislation to limit their profits?

The other plans have many parts that need to be implemented and still do not address some of the problems we will face in the future, Veteran's costs for healthcare and Medicare being two of them.

The simplicity of Conyers/Kucinich plan, an umbrella for all health care with large bargaining power for services and removing the employer provided plan as a negotiating tool for wages makes HR 676 a much better plan IMO.

[Cleita]

15. I'm with you. I'm for the Conyers/Kucinich plan, however,

Edwards plan is to squeeze them out of business by making them compete with Medicare. Actually, this was suggested on DU years ago. Put Medicare on the open market so that employers, unions and individuals have the option of purchasing it as their insurance plan. Since Medicare can operate on less and cover more than private insurers, they will have to become competitive with Medicare to stay in business or just opt out of it as unprofitable. Also, the government will purchase Medicare for the poor and uninsured so that everyone is covered. It's free market, something the corporations say they love. It's just another way to skin the cat as they say.

[bobbolink]

17. Very well said. Just a different way of implementing HR676, and getting rid of insurance

companies!

It's gonna be a long transition anyway, because corporations don't go quietly into that good night.

HR676 doesn't transition immediately! It will take, what 10 or more years?

So, Edwards is doing the same thing, just by a different path.

And, as you say, if it's done intelligently, it hamstrings the corporations, because they say they love the free market.

TA-DA!

:hi:

[slipslidingaway]

22. Hillary also speaks of a public plan option modeled on

Medicare that would compete with the private companies, although I do not see where she will limit the profits of private companies as Edwards has proposed. Is limiting the profits to private companies the main difference you see? They both have private and public components.

I can still envision a scenario where the better doctors opt to work for more profits under the private insurance companies and those who can afford to pay for the services not having any incentive to use or change the public system.

[Cleita]

25. You won't see that because if they are true to the form they

follow today, the insurance companies pay less than Medicare. In my area most doctors refuse to take most insurance plans. They all take traditional Medicare though, but refuse the privatized Medicare plans like Secure Horizons. So if they improve Medicare as has been promised, I see doctors preferring Medicare because they don't have the hassle of trying to get approvals from the insurers and then fighting to get paid months later, like what is happening now.

Hillary is folding Medicare into her Byzantine and costly plan. The other candidates are attempting to rein in costs by forcing the insurers to be competitive with Medicare. I personally would rather not play cat and mouse with the insurance companies either, which is why Kucinich is my candidate. However, I understand why the other candidates won't tell the insurance companies to go away. It would be better if all of them were on the same page and endorsed singler payer, universal health care. This way people could vote for the candidates for other issues.

Who cares what the Republicans want. They really aren't in this game to back social programs. Our Democrats shouldn't be using Republican plans for their social programs either.

[slipslidingaway]

27. I'll read through her plan in more detail, my relatives in the UK

have private insurance and would not use the public system. They are happy with the private care and therefore have no reason to be concerned about improving the public system, but I know that not everyone can afford the insurance. That is what I based my answer on above, thanks for the replies :)

[Cleita]

30. A two-tiered system may not be that bad in other countries, but

here you can be sure it will end up being a business venture for the fat cats and we still won't have meaningful health care.

Here are two articles that sort of explain the problem of allowing the insurers to be part of the problem. This one is the New York Times assessment of Hillary's plan.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/17/washington/17cnd-clinton.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

The second one was the Sacramento Bee's assessment of Arnold Schwarzenegger's plan for California.

http://www.sacbee.com/110/story/170883.html

The two things that stand out to me is that people will be forced to buy Medical insurance, whether it's the individual or the employer, they will be forced to buy it. All the tax credits and fiddling with the figures doesn't get rid of the main problem, access to health care for the people who need it.

Key is Hillary's assertion:

“You’ll never again have to worry about finding affordable coverage,” she said. “Your coverage will be guaranteed. If you pay your premiums and follow the rules, your insurance company will be required to renew your coverage each year at a price you can afford.”

So it means that we are still scrambling with the same problems, trying to get approval for procedures, trying to see our doctors of choice, trying to make sure our physicians get paid. This does not help. The cursory reference to Medicare means that nothing will be done about the problems in Medicare that need to be fixed

This is similar to Arnold's plan that would force people to buy health insurance who can't afford it. The same problems with the insurers aren't even spoken about. And the people who actually need health care, the sick will have to fight a bureaucracy to qualify for the new Medicare plan that has been proposed. What Arnold intends for the poor and sick to pay for their health care isn't even clear.

Well, I'm rambling right now because I'm tired and just had to fork out $70 for a new prescription medicine, thanks to our wonderful prescription Medicare benefit passed a couple of years ago and I think Hillary was one of the passers, that really helps the pharma industry but does little for those of us who need the medication.

[slipslidingaway]

32. Appreciate the additional links, will look at them tomorrow. Still

would like to push for the single payer system instead of the mandated insurance buys.

Thanks again.

[antigop]

35. Cleita -- you make a good point about the current problems in Medicare...

How does sHillary's plan fix current Medicare funding problems?

[Cleita]

40. I haven't seen where she has addressed it. She's

basically promising that everyone can have health insurance and that those who can't afford it will get Medicare. What the criteria are to qualify for Medicare is we don't know. I have a feeling that it will be run like Medicaid, where you basicially have to spend down all your assets and savings before you qualify for it. This is not a good solution. She also hasn't said whether it will be improved Medicare like Dennis Kucinich has offered. Also, she hasn't said whether the private insurance companies will continue with their huge deductibles and micro-managing of approval of procedures. All she has said is that they can't deny you coverage. She hasn't defined what the coverage is. I think we will still end up with expensive insurance that covers basically nothing that we really need as health care.

[antigop]

37. Oh, brother, ....look at this excerpt from the SACBEE Article....

>>
Blue Cross has offered its own alternative to the governor's plan: expand an existing state-run pool for expensive, high-risk consumers. That way, the company says, anyone who can't get coverage in the private market could get it through the government.
>>

WOW! Blue Cross gets to privatize the profits for the healthy people but the costs for the "expensive, high-risk consumers" are socialized through the taxpayers.

[bobbolink]

42. Hillary will take care of us juuuuuust fiiiine.....

:puke:

[sandnsea]

20. they both have a medicare component

If there's a difference, I don't see it. Please explain.

Obama's actually has a strategy to reform private insurance, a National Health Insurance Exchange that would require every plan to "provide comprehensive benefits, issue every applicant a policy, and charge fair and stable premiums".

It includes a federal buy-in program, and much of the rest of what the others have. But it does have some unique aspects too, worth taking a look at.

http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/HealthPlanOverview.pdf

[PDenton]

23. healthcare isn't complicated at all

If the British and Canadians can do it, surely the Americans can.

I would even just settle for the government pooling uninsured into groups and creating some kind of healthcare plan for them. We need to get the ball moving. I do not feel Hillary's plan is balanced, as it puts unequal burdens on business and individuals, and there is no serious attempt to curtail costs.

The Republicans are right about the Clintons. They are slick. I never voted for Bill in the 90's and I'm not anxious to vote for Hillary in 2008. Please nominate somebody else, somebody who isn't a corporate whore...

[Cleita]

26. Welcome to DU!

:toast:

You explain the problem with Hillary's plan very well, better than me. I think Hillary wants the plan to fail so she can ignore it for the rest of her term just like Bill did. I'm not falling for this twice.

[midnight]

3. "For profit insurance companies

make money not providing healthcare" That is why insuance co. cannot be for profit.

[slipslidingaway]

8. Yes and if the government will be covering the most needy they

leave the big profits for the private insurance companies, I really do not think our government can afford to do that.

:shrug:

[bobbolink]

16. What we LACK is PUBLIC DEMAND!!!

Where's the outrage?

Where's the STANDING UP AND DEMANDING HEALTH CARE!

I've worked with an organization dedicated to implementing HR676. I called organization after organization, and talked with so many people. What they all wanted to do was tell me all their horror stories, and how bad the health care situation is, but when it came time to put their names and their time and their energy on the line, they almost all backed out.

People aren't yet hurting enough to get really serious about health care. Unless/until the citizenry DEMAND universal/single payer health care, it's just ain't gonna happen.

That's YOU.

That's ME.

That's ALL OF DU.

That's ALL OF YOUR LOCAL DEM PARTY.

That's all the CHURCHES.

That's all the CIVIC ORGANIZATIONS.

DEMAND!!

It's gonna be one HUMONGOUS job to get rid of the insurance companies. They ain't gonna go quietly. Our "Political Leadership" knows this, and they aren't gonna stick their collective heads in a guillotine unless/until we PUSH 'EM TO IT!

[BlooInBloo]

36. Yup. Oh, and by the way: Clinton has a very nice health care plan.

http://ezraklein.typepad.com/blog/2007/09/the-hillary-pla.html

[antigop]

38. Yes, it's very nice for the insurance companies. n/t

[bobbolink]

18. Can we pleeeez get some more recs for this worthy thread?

Thank you.

:hi:

[bobbolink]

19. Another video which explains single-payer in a very clear way....

This is a great, short, simple video to share with everyone:

www.grahamazon.com/sp/whatissinglepayer.php

[slipslidingaway]

28. Thanks, great video! n/t

[gateley]

34. Thank you - this is an excellent, simple to understand explanation. Rec. nt

[bobbolink]

41. Please share it around!

:hi:

[PDenton]

21. lack of empathy

I think people who have health insurance just have no empathy with people who do not. There isn't an ounce of solidarity in our society anymore, which is why we, as a nation, are so easily divided. I blame Ronald Reagan. He was the first Republican to really sell Americans on the politics of division, dressed up in glittering generalities.

Michael Moore's great movie came out, probably his best movie yet (except for the unfortunate choice to go to Cuba- I don't know what Michael Moore was thinking but at that point I saw a train wreck comming), and all people can focus on is his going to Cuba and John Stossel's hitpiece.

[antigop]

24. Welcome to DU, PDenton! n/t

[slipslidingaway]

29. Welcome to DU and I think you are correct, in addition to that

our media and elected officials could spend more time educating the public about the needs and how it would benefit our society as a whole.

[PDenton]

31. lack of universal healthcare

... is also putting the US in a position of short-term and long-term uncompetitiveness economicly.

It is also causing costs assosciated with planning, or rather lack of, to be externalized to individuals rather than society as a whole. Americans are obese not because we are lazy- we are obese because we have no sidewalks and nowhere to walk to because the governments subsidize suburban sprawl. That's the biggest meme around- Americans are lazy, and it is a lie; it simply is not true. People in other countries don't exercise any more than Americans- if anything I think I've seen more joggers in the US than when I lived in the UK and Europe.

[slipslidingaway]

33. Yes HR 676 would help the employers by reducing costs for HC.

There needs to be someone who believes in the plan and is willing to take on the fight.

[antigop]

39. Hey, everyone ....be sure to read this thread.....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1832803&mesg_id=1832803

[slipslidingaway]

44. Health Forum 2007 Transcript: Rep. Dennis Kucinich

"Do you know what, universal health care, oh, everybody is for it. Almost resonant with that fellow in the Music Man who said, There's trouble in River City. Universal health care. You know what, even the insurance companies are for universal health care, especially the insurance companies if the government is subsidizing them. What a deal that is for the insurance companies, but what a rotten deal for the American people.

We've got to have not-for-profit health care, get the insurance companies out of the picture. Health care is not a privilege; it is a right and it is a human right. Universal health care, right. I mean, come on. You need a president who didn't fall off the Christmas tree. You need a president who will be involved in straight talk straight from the shoulder, and you need a president who doesn't have a key in the back being wound up by special interests to come before the American people and tell them what the interests want. I'm telling you what the American people want and I'm ready to take that message all across this country and I'd like your help in doing it. Thank you.

I have four seconds left. Buzzer shot. You want not-for-profit health care, I'm the candidate who can deliver. Thank you very much."

http://www.americanprogressaction.org/events/healthforum/kucinich_transcript.html