Another Taser thread after having Viewed the Clip on U Tube

[AuntPatsy]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=iqAVvlyVbag

For those wishing to view the full tape.

I am beginning to believe that far too many Du'rs are missing the point of what the actions of the police that day represents to all Americans wishing to ensure their voices are heard.

Whether or not the young man in question seems to be a trouble maker is not the point in my opinion.

I have not read the young man's blog nor do I intend to because frankly his political leanings mean nothing to me at this point.

His questions were valid, as many durs pointed out, those questions have been asked many times since the last election and have yet to have been answered in a manner that would leave one no longer wishing to question the validity of the election's outcome

I don't believe that Kerry is responsible in any way for what happened to this young man, to attempt to act as if Kerry could have done anything at that point is absolutely ridiculous, if people are not aware at this point in time how dangerous it could be for such a high profiled candidate to actually put himself into the crowd than they are just not paying attention to the publics outright distrust and anger at politicians in general these days regardless of the persons' political persuasions.

Sen. Kerry was heard by me to let the man speak, he also said in the video that he was willing to answer the young man's question, I myself would have liked to hear his answers.

Was the young man a bit riled? Yes he was even to me, but then again who is not these days and why do we think we are all that upset? Simply because the answers we seek we are really not getting.

In that vein the police had no right to handle the situation in the way that they did, it is becoming all to common and it is wrong period, this situation does not matter simply based on what the speaker is, dem or repub, this situation matters because it is happening all to frequently lately to us all period and it should not continue if we wish for our rights to be considered regarding getting to the truth of what our government entails.

Last I understood, it was ours to uphold regardless of our personal political leanings.

Anyway, my opinion only and it doesn't matter if the thread drops to the bottom in record time, at least I had my say.

We are all Americans people and in many respects we are all angry at many of the same issues in play today regarding our governments honesty and integrity.

[lonestarnot]

1. 7 years of a cheat have torqued many people's asses.

[Bonobo]

2. Twisted their souls more like it, pal.

[AuntPatsy]

4. I can easily believe that, I find that I am just as angry when attempting

what I once was able to do when attempting a civil discourse regarding today's political issues that have honest meaning such as the war, health issues, illegal wiretapping of American citizens etc, etc etc, there are so many issues in play today that I believe have overwhelmed us in that it is getting hard to focus on just one of the hundreds of outrages the government is heaping on us all.

[lonestarnot]

9. Makes having a fit standard protocol.

[AuntPatsy]

17. I know that sounds sad but it seems to be the way it is these days.

[demodonkey]

3. If asking hard and pointed questions gets you dragged out of a public forum by police...

...tasered or not, this country is in deep and terrible trouble.

[AuntPatsy]

6. Agreed. N/T

[Labors of Hercules]

8. Well, look at the real benefit though...

Now his question and opinion gets aired all over the country. Nobody would have seen it if they had just left the kid alone. I swear if the cops had been freeper plants they couldn't have overshadowed Kerry's message with the kid's and aired it across the country more brilliantly than they did....

:mad:

[cadmium]

52. It seems to be working out that way. I think that it was just

a big young man that is testing how to express outrage and police who are too quick to use their taser. That was the incident--the constant outrage is interrupting the debate on Iraq which is going on this week.

[lonestarnot]

10. Aye.

[Virginia Dare]

14. There's an appropriate way in which to ask pointed questions..

I believe if this young man had been in a much less agitated state, perhaps he might have been heard, and perhaps the cops would have acted in a different manner. IMO it wasn't the questions that got this guy dragged off, it was his behavior.

[cadmium]

53. It looked to me like he

was both disrupting the discussion, approaching the stage and would not back off. I am lucky to work in a setting with security that is less aggressive (no tasers) but when someone wont leave my area and interferes with other clients we have them ushered out by security -- forcefully if needed..

[MBS]

5. here's a much-needed FIRST-HAND account

Lost in the ridiculously overheated DailyKos diary is a single useful post with actual FACTS

From a friend of mine who was at the event: (10+ / 0-)
I was talking with a friend of mine in Florida this morning about this. He was at the event last night. Here's his account of how things went down:
"I was at the Kerry speech today, sitting 2 rows away from all the action. I'll let you know how it really went down.

The forum was going to be over at 2 pm, and Kerry spoke for so long that the Q and A portion had to be shortened. He only got through about 7 of the 50 people who were waiting to ask questions. While the final question was being read, some douchebag ran down the aisle, grabbed the mic from the other side of the room, interrupted the kid who was talking, and started yelling at Kerry, demanding that his questions be heard. He started ranting about how Kerry talks in circles or something, and everyone was getting annoyed. The cops are all over him in no time and try to escort him out, but he starts yelling and resisting. Kerry insists that they let him stay and even agrees to answer his question.

After the interrupted guy's question was answered, Kerry keeps his promise and lets the angry guy talk. This is the point where people started taking their cameras and phones out. All the videos floating around youtube start around here. You can see in the videos that his questioning gets kind of inappropriate, so somebody cut his mic. Instead of shutting up, he starts yelling and making an even bigger scene. He struggled all the way up the aisle, and started violently trying to free himself. They threatened to taze him and he wouldnt stop fighting, so he got tazed. They only had to arrest him because he was causing a disruption and wouldn't leave peacefully. He wasn't being silenced for asking tough questions, trust me.

It's a shame that they had to taze the guy, but he had a chance to calm down and didn't take it. He probably didn't pose a physical threat to anybody in the room, but someone can't just hijack the floor of a forum like that and expect not to get kicked out. This wasn't some poor guy who was brutalized for trying to ask some tough questions. He's just an obnoxious guy who had a fit when there wasn't time for his questions and refused to be calm even when he was given the chance to speak. He was looking for trouble, and everyone applauded when he was forced to leave.

Nothing pisses me off more than hearing stories about power tripping cops abusing their power, unnecessarily tazing or arresting people, etc. It's a huge problem and I'm glad it's being discussed. Just don't mistake this for one of those cases"

Just wanted to make sure an account got posted by someone who was actually there.

by djdissent on Tue Sep 18, 2007 at 05:18:23 AM PDT

I saw a bumper sticker yesterday: against a backdrop of the American flag, the words said, "THINK: IT'S PATRIOTIC". Let's all please stay members of the reality-based, thinking community.

[Zenlitened]

13. It kind of became a min-Iraq (or nano-): Once the thing got started...

... there was just no good outcome to be had.

:(

[Virginia Dare]

16. Perhaps that was the point of the whole excercise..n/t

[AuntPatsy]

15. Excellent, thank you for that, but still, I can understand this young man's anger

who isn't angry these days because of NOT being heard or getting the answers they deserve?

The one thing we can be at least a bit more thankful for is that what I firmly believe to be the original intent of this administration to sever ly incite the people of this country to despise all Democratic persons as well as Liberal has not panned out as they once hoped since far many "thank God" are dropping out of their once strong ignorant ranks of a scenario that could be likened to the civil war of North verses South.

So I do have hope for this country since no longer half of our countryman have proven to be so stupid as to continue to back this administration's outright attack on our freedoms and democracy.

[blm]

44. I understand the many students waiting in line felt some anger that Meyer made

a scene to force his voice over theirs and that they lost some opportunity because they were following standard protocol.

[Heidi]

21. ". . . didn't pose a threat to anybody in the room." So why was he Tased?

The Gainesville PD claims its Tasers are for use by offers "facing situations that pose threats to their safety and the safety of others."
http://legistar.cityofgainesville.org/attachments/4640.pdf

If the young man was no threat to anyone's safety, as your first-hand account says, why was he Tased?

[CGowen]

32. How can this be true, if Kerry chose him and he was standing and waiting to ask Kerry? (op video)

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

34. Thank You Very Much For This.

[truedelphi]

59. I hail from an era wherein every day people asserted themselves

If any of you are typing on DU wearing Tattoos and holding jobs or listening to Ipods and holding jobs - it is because of what went down in the sixties and seventies that you can do those things.

That as young women you don't have to wear cute little white gloves and a dress and a hat any time you leave the kitchen and go into town.

The guy was not even at the mike for over one and two thirds minutes. We are talking less than two minutes.

there would have been NO FREE SPEEcH MOVEMENT in Berkeley CA if the rules had been so strict that the police treatment could grab youfor talking for one minute and thirty six seconds..

There would have been no speech by Martin about having a dream under that type of reprehensible code of behavior. Because instead, Martin would have been serving a life sentence for all the ruckus that he caused whenever he went out and campaigned for freedom.

[Old Vet]

7. I believe your looking to deep into this....

That man was asked politely over 20 times to move along for the next speaker, IMHO he played it perfectly for tv. This dude had a agenda,Fox noise is playing this shit to death.

[lonestarnot]

12. Yeah they love to rub a cheat in our faces because they got away with it.

[AuntPatsy]

20. then let us here at Du discuss the real issue here, why aren't our questions

being answered in a way that is satisfying in that such anger does not get so out of control? Again regardless if some on here think this young man was some kind of plant, he is not by far the only angry American these.

I agree that he should have been more cordial and perhaps he might have had his answer, but after reading on Du a bit of his blog writings it is safe to assume the young man in question is a bit on edge but so are soooo so many other bloggers out there from all political standpoints.

Too bad though that many on here are right in that kerry's message that day is being virtually ignored so I should find it and post the link to it, I will try to find it.

[AuntPatsy]

19. Regardless if that was his intent, I for one do not see this event as a hit towards Kerry.

And I would hope that others will too. You will always have those that will use anything to attack the dems on a daily basis, but regardless of those attempting to make it a dem bash, I don't see it as such and nor should anyone else.

[Fierce]

11. I just watched it too.

Guy starts yelling and runs up the aisle toward a U.S. senator and former presidential candidate. I'd have my hand on the taser, too.

[Virginia Dare]

18. Cops don't have a whole lot of time to make decisions on how to react..

they'll opt for overkill every time.

[BuyingThyme]

22. You're right, AuntPatsy, and the police had no right to

remove this guy. They, and many here, have truly been conditioned to believe that the police are paid to protect people like John Kerry from questions having to do with topics like U.S. elections and the Skull and Bones society.

In reality, it's people like John Kerry who endanger our lives by participating in activities conducted by groups whose sole objective is to subvert our social, economic, and political systems to their advantage.

Too bad John Kerry has always been inclined to keep the truth from the people, and shame on those who pretend that he has done otherwise.

[MBS]

25. shame on those who refuse to appreciate the depth, courage, inelligence

and integrity of a truly first-rate senator like John Kerry, one of the very few lights in our government in a very dark time.
If we can't support the good guys in our midst, then there is truly no hope for us.

The RECORD shows that Kerry was answering the guy's questions, that he in fact DID answer his questions.
Good grief.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MH1]

37. "Is the sky blue"?

Damn, he didn't answer that one either!

Yes, Kerry answered the S&B question a long time ago...yes he was a member, it is something everyone knows.

[BuyingThyme]

40. Do you have a link?

[CGowen]

41. He basically gave the same answer as Bush

Kerry
http://youtube.com/watch?v=B9hcdhUkHFc

Bush
http://youtube.com/watch?v=nDG73QmlP0Y

[BuyingThyme]

43. Yes, he told the questioners to fuck off.

[Richard Steele]

23. K&R

[Cirque du So-What]

24. Thank you for posting this video showing all his comments

It shows that Sen. Kerry never had an opportunity to even start replying to the student's first question (about failing to pursue election fraud) before getting asked another one (Skull & Bones) - and the student gave no indication that he was anywhere near the end of his piehole-flapping exercise. For my part, I would have been honored to attend a meeting at which Sen. Kerry was speaking, and I would have wanted to hear his responses to questions from the audience - not an incessant stream of indictments. What he was doing in no way resembled an attempt at dialog; it looked more like an attention whore's cry of 'look at me!' I'm a proponent of free speech, but there's a well-established format for question-and-answer sessions, and it requires that the audience member ask a question and then STFU in order to get an answer.

The student was being disruptive through hogging the mike - effectively shutting down discussion and wasting time. I would argue that the campus police were within their rights to remove the disruptor after he gave no indication of ceding the floor to Sen. Kerry .

I also don't buy into his victimhood, since both the videos I've seen clearly show that he is resisting arrest and removal from the auditorium. I've seen enough police violence in my day to know what is and isn't excessive force, and it appears that they used an appropriate amount in removing a bucking, braying jackass from the scene.

I'm also not enthralled with the exponential growth in taser use, but this appears to be one of those times where it is appropriate. He was still resisting arrest while being subdued in preparation for getting handcuffed. Even when handcuffed, an unruly person can still kick, bite, spit and head-butt, so if the person is still resisting, further persuasion to calm the hell down is appropriate. For my part, I'd rather get tasered than be on the receiving end of a nightstick.

I'm not going with the majority opinion I've seen on this incident today thus far. I don't blame Sen. Kerry whatsoever for the events as they transpired. He had no authority to direct campus police in how they conducted themselves while handling the situation. I'll leave the Kerry-bashing to the RW pundits & bloggers, who are spooging themselves as we speak.

[MBS]

26. thanks for your sensible, thoughtful comment n/t

[ginnyinWI]

30. I could have written your post.

I agree 100%. Some here seem to want to blame Sen. Kerry whenever they can for anything they can. Do they think he wears a Superman suit under his clothes and is supposed to rescue every situation?

[MH1]

31. More info on this Digg comment from someone claiming to be a witness

http://digg.com/politics/Student_Tasered_at_John_Kerry_s_speech_at_UF_with_Video?t=9244767#c9244767

by reddevil3 1 hour ago
Let me expand a bit since I was there:

Everything was going pretty well until this asshole showed up.

So here's how it went: Kerry gave a speech for roughly 40-45 mins first, then a moderator asked him some questions followed by a Q&A session. Obviously not everyone could get to ask a question. So after 6 or so questions, the moderator says that we won't be taking any more questions. This guy gets really pissed since he was standing next in line, and starting shouting and making a ruckus. I was sitting just a few rows in front of the mic.

He started getting all angry and started saying "we have been listening to you for 2 hours, it's our time to ask questions", (it was more like an hour) to which Kerry said "if you didn't want to hear me speak, why did you come?". Then this guy started shouting again and then the police starting getting a hold of him. Then Kerry told the security to stop and told the guy to calm down and that he will take his question after he's done with the current question.

Then the guy's turn comes up and you can see in the videos how he's being such an ass...he sounds mentally ill to me. But then security grabs him and starts pulling his shirt and his female friends got really worried and started shouting at the security...the guy keeps shouting and they take him to the back of the auditorium and for some fucking reason they taser him AFTER he's been subdued and put down...one of his friends started crying.

Edit to add: thank you for a sane and thoughtful post.

[uppityperson]

42. Being a jerk doesn't mean you need to be tasered. Sounds like he was under control when tasered

Any police out there: please don't use your taser on someone under control because you lost your patience. Thank you.

[ManiacJoe]

62. He was in handcuffs but still struggling with the cops.

While their procedures may allow for tasing at that point, what the cops should have done was just pick him up and carry him out. But instead, they were lazy and wanted to use the cool gadgit, so they did.

[uppityperson]

65. Indeed. eom

[timtom]

27. Disregard

(I had to seriously edit my reply because of an eyewitness account).

[The Vinyl Ripper]

28. I don't know about the rest of y'all

But I would have to get fairly worked up to even speak in public like that and I could easily see myself getting carried away with emotion.

And I'm not sure I buy the "first hand account" completely either.

Everyone has an agenda.

[AuntPatsy]

36. I kind of agree with you, I am a bit shy myself but when I do get a chance to speak up

sometimes I get a bit passionate so to speak. I still think the questions asked were definitely within reason since I myself have wondered many times though I do know having read it that kerry was investigating the election behind the scenes which leaves me to wonder why he gave in?

I swear this is not a hit to wards Kerry, I just always wondered why since he obviously felt himself that the voting was not all it seemed and apparently he did have lawyers working on it.

I just have never felt that we the people were given all the facts per say and considering what this administration has reaped on our soil these last four years I guess my point is he would have done well to fight the voting more openly and forcefully regardless of those whining that he was wasting so called valuable government time.

[truckin]

29. Kerry could have been much more vocal in telling the cops to

let the kid ask his question. The kid did seem a little crazy but I for one would have liked to hear Kerry's answer.

As others have mentioned, if this happened with Bush in Kerry's position, we would be crucifying him. And this is from a big Kerry supporter who campaigned for him in the Democratic primary when he was down and out.

[MH1]

33. Did you see this vid where Kerry clearly addresses the officers,

before saying "everyone please calm down"?

They just ignored him. Kerry wouldn't have been able to see fully what they were seeing. I don't blame him for not being more forceful in trying to interfere with their actions - he had no way of knowing if the guy had a weapon or there was some other reason the officers ignored him.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3ec_1190097717

[AuntPatsy]

38. I agree with you, apparently there are a few different videos out there.

And your very right, Kerry did all he could. I have tried to find the transcript of Kerry's speech but I can't, it would be good if someone could and post it

[truckin]

39. If it were me on stage I would have yelled at the cops to let the

kid ask his question. Kerry had a microphone and you could barely hear him. It was a very weak response. Again, if this was Bush, we'd all be killing him.

[RangerRK]

45. put down the mike- run over and yell "stop"

It seems pretty obvious to me. If another student intervened they would have been tasered as well, but the cops would have listened to Kerry.

And you are right! If Bush did this everyone would be outraged! It is completely unacceptable that anyone would support this violence because the guy was 'annoying' and 'deserved it'.

[cadmium]

48. Are you saying that he should have yelled

stop regarding them removing this student from the room or stop when he was being tasered? They are different actions.

[truckin]

55. I'm saying that he should yelled stop when the kid was first

grabbed by the police. The kid was a little over the top but what did he really do except be obnoxious? Kerry's response was so weak that he gave the impression that he was not too unhappy about the student being shut up so he wouldn't have to address the questions. If Kerry was forceful when the cops first grabbed the kid and it still played out the way it did, I would give him a pass. However, that's not what I saw in the video.

Also, I really would have liked to hear Kerry's responses to those questions.

[ManiacJoe]

63. The cops would have correctly ignored Kerry.

Any move like that would end very badly for the idiot that tried it.

[cadmium]

50. If it was me I dont know what I would do. I can't see what it

looked like from where Kerry was standing. How can you really claim to know what you would do?

[truckin]

56. From what Kerry said it seemd that he could see what was

happening to the student when he was first grabbed. I would have at least yelled at the cops to leave the kid alone when they first grabbed him. I'm not saying Kerry should have run down there and gotten physical but he could have been much more vocal.

[cadmium]

57. Dont know from the videos how vocal

he was -- and if they had just removed him rather than tasering him the whole wouldnt have been a big story. Kerry has answered those questions at fora before and he said that he wanted to answer his questin before the shit hit the fan.

[truckin]

58. What are his answers?

[ManiacJoe]

61. What would have been the point?

Kerry knows he has no authority over the cops. The cops know Kerry has no authority over them.

[sleipnir]

64. I agree. He was the one with the microphone.

Good point on the Bush v Kerry double standard.

Some are willing to let anything slide.

[mudesi]

46. First Rev. Yearwood, now THIS

Were it not for the Internet and YouTube, I wouldn't know the extent to how far America has become a police state.

[goodhue]

47. right on

eom

[goodgd_yall]

49. I saw what you saw

Agree on all your points.

[idgiehkt]

51. I agree

I think that tasers are an instrument of torture. I think that when you sign up to be a cop sometimes you have to use bodily force to take people down. Irrespective of whether the guy should have been shut up, I don't think that tasers should be being used on people except when they are psychotic or drug-crazed. A normal size person should not be tasered by a cop, if they are in a normal state of mind...the cop should use bodily force to restrain the person. I saw a video the other day of a woman who was tasered on a routine traffic stop. Cops are way too quick to use them.

[3waygeek]

54. Just saw the clip on KO n/t

[LittleClarkie]

60. Thank you for your reasoned and civil response to the incident

The thing that's been getting me riled all day is mostly the suggestion that this was Kerry's fault, or the way the incident picked at old wounds regarding the recount and the 2004 election. The point was not what Kerry could have done, or if there was some sort of Skull and Bones conspiracy, or even whether the cops were stopping the person because somehow they knew that he was asking QUESTIONS THAT MUST NOT BE ASKED.

The point was how the cops behaved, regardless of who or what was going on. While I agree with those who say that resisting arrest is never a good idea, I don't understand why cuffs could not be used as opposed to the taser. Nevertheless the campus cops have been put on leave, and we shall see what the University does with them.

[aikoaiko]

66. He wouldn't stop ranting or let Kerry answer his questions even when he mic was cut off.

He cut to the front of the line ahead of someone else, handing her his camera to catch his stunt on video.

He's agitated, unstable, and ranting. He won't stop talking to let Kerry answer, and won't stop talking when his mic is cut off.

The organizer of the event cut his mic and, I assume, directed the police to remove the disruptive person which is perfectly within his rights.

End of story...except that he resisted police as they were showing restraint as they escorted him out.