Kerry Speech Tasering: The point people are missing

[fiore280]

Everyone has a right to be heard. There is no doubt the student had the right to provide background for his questions, and ask tough ones. He also had a right to speak passionately, and to be very very tough on Kerry if he wanted to.

This is the point people are missing: It is causing a PUBLIC DISTURBANCE when a person screams at a senator and becomes loud and intimidating during a civilized question and answer session. There is nothing wrong with speaking passionately, and even a little yelling. But when you spiral out of control and have a goddamn fit, especially in front of a powerful public figure like a Senator, you are not only a public disturbance, but you put yourself in a position to be perceived as a POTENTIAL THREAT.

I think the cops only begun to escort the kid away when he was actually becoming a potential threat, and quite awhile after he had become a public disturbance. Kudos to Senator Kerry for trying to hear the kid out, but I have no beef with the cops for trying to remove him when he became unruly. Then, despite several warnings, the kid kept resisting and yelling. As such, he BROUGHT UPON the tasering HIMSELF.

Hey, there are many things I would like to yell and scream at neocon Bill Kristol for. But under NO circumstances would I ever become even close to that unhinged while questioning him. Know why? Because I would be afraid I would be tasered and removed too, especially if I did not calm down. It's just common sense to ask the tough questions, follow up, and only accept logical answers, calling bullshit on the speaker when necessary. But to not become heated, erratic, and disruptive, that's just common sense.

[saracat]

1. Great post!

[bos1]

34. I disagree totally. And just like the crowd applauding the cops

this all makes the US look like a fearful, third world country.

[saracat]

47. I do NOT agree that the kid should have been "tasared' I do agree that he

made himself obnoxious and disruptive enough to have been viewd as a "potential threat" and should have been removed!

[Nailzberg]

138. Physically resisting arrest makes him a threat

HE wasn't tasered for speaking out of turn, he wasn't tasered for creating a public disturbance. He was only tasered after repeated warnings to stop resisting. He knew he would be tasered if he did not comply.

[ShortnFiery]

65. I don't get it either. Being passionate = threat and OK to take down and taser?

Wow! I sure miss the 1960s where "being passionate" was not frowned upon but lauded. Especially by people who call themselves "liberals."

BTW the man was fully subdued and in the process of having his handcuffs tightened when the supervisor said, "Tase him." That's called police brutality because they are NOT authorized to play judge and jury in the allotment of PUNISHMENT.

Yeah, if "certain people" deem that you are too passionate, the MOMENT after your mic time is up, it's "rock and roll shock treatment" by the jack booted cops. :crazy:

I don't even recognize many people who claim to be democratic much less liberal in these days of Corporatist Propaganda 24/7. :(

[Mojorabbit]

80. It scares me

when people on this board speak out in approval of the actions of the police in this case. I guess I am just old and remember when this would have been a big deal re the cops behaviour and they probably would have been fired because it was so outside what the norm was.

[ShortnFiery]

86. You know, my primal urges help me to "fully understand" the cops frustration and

desire to "get even."

However, what separates us from true SAVAGES is the fact that we uphold The Constitution and pride ourselves with our tolerance. As such, WE DEMAND that those who "serve and protect" push down those primal urges to follow the rule of law.

Why do you think that cage matches are so popular?

We all have a dark side, the good people suppress it. :(

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

2. This is obvious.

The cops showed remarkable restraint. The kid went there looking for trouble. He's lucky he didn't hurt himself or somebody else.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

3. Absolutely. Nice To See A Rational Post On The Subject.

You are absolutely right.

[ShortnFiery]

87. A true rational post support from ...

a "Fuck Nader" fan. :crazy: :P

[LSK]

4. hey now, you are using common sense

That is not allowed here anymore.

Now back to the debate about Kerry tasering babies in hospitals on Christmas!

:sarcasm:

[Hepburn]

5. Great post and get thee to the Greatest page!

K&R and BRAVO! :applause:

[BuyingThyme]

6. To not become heated, erratic, and disruptive, that's just common.

[Old Vet]

7. Exactly...

Not to mention he ran down and grabbed the mike from another student talking.Period

[reality based]

8. I don't think Senator Kerry agrees with you. He condemns the tasering.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1834174

[ClassWarrior]

10. I condemn tasering myself. But that doesn't make fiore280's post any less valid.

NGU.

[reality based]

19. I have viewed two different videos of the incident. Until the police grabbed

him while he was still asking his questions, there was no disruption. I have been to many political meetings and events where this would have been quite tame and no police intervention was needed or welcome. From all I have read and seen this was a case of overreaction by the police. A little freedom of expression needs to be tolerated, even defended in a putative democracy.

[Morereason]

120. exactly!

[wisteria]

152. He created a disturbance the minute he insisted on butting in front of the line and demanding to be

heard. I think you might be wise to consider that this student was there tho purposely disrupt the event whether it was for his own sake or for someone else's.

[OzarkDem]

25. Yes it does

promoting Kerry by demonizing the kid is pretty sad.

[wisteria]

153. Don't you know this student is a regular disruptor? He has done

things like this before. Sorry, but I don't feel a bit sorry for this creep. He knew what he was doing and he apparently done it purposely to disrupt the event. Go check out his site. All he had to do is behave like everyone else and he would not of been dragged away or tasered.
Your concern for this student and his right to free speech is commendable, but I suggest you save it for someone truly worthy of your attention.

[bunkerbuster1]

11. No, he doesn't "condemn" it.

That's a media headline. It's not in Kerry's statement, which is here:

http://www.johnkerry.com/2007/9/18/kerry-statement-on-florida-campus-incident

He certainly isn't happy with the way things turned out, but he also says, appropriately, that he doesn't know what kind of warnings were issued between the disruptor and the police.

[BuyingThyme]

16. con·demn

1. to express an unfavorable or adverse judgment on; indicate strong disapproval of; censure.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=condemn

[bunkerbuster1]

23. His opinion seems "unfavorable." but that definition...

Kinda wimpy, if ask me. To "condemn" doesn't, in my book, mean you merely regard something unfavorably.

[reality based]

22. Ah, yes, he merely "regrets enormously"

that "a good, healthy discussion was interrupted." Well, what interrupted that discussion?

[rucky]

9. I think every public forum should come equipped with an Ass Room.

just a little quiet time-out space where we can put everybody who's - not doing anything illegal - but just being an ass in public.

maybe we can set one up here on the DU?

[Cha]

64. Probably not..warnings and

then tombstoned.

OT, but your sig link is adorable and I have a granddaughter in Oregon who would love it.

[Radical Activist]

136. Maybe DU IS the ass room.

A lot of people act like it. :)

[mike_c]

be that as it may, the thing I still find the most disturbing...

...about this whole affair is the power of the police to arbitrarily shut down public discourse because one or a few cops didn't like the tone, the nature of the discussion, or whatever. In my mind there is no difference between this incident and all the ones we decry when antiwar protesters are harassed, anti-Bush demonstrations are sequestered in hidden "free speech zones," dissenting views are excluded from administration pep-rallies, etc.

Unless a crime was being committed-- and being rude is not a crime-- the police have no business intervening.

[KurtNYC]

53. The rules in these appreances are simple, you line up

ask your question and let him answer. You might even make a brief statement then ask the question. But you don't get to jump the line, make a long statement and then fire all the questions you want. It wasn't a huge deal at that point, the guy was a little rude and long winded...not a huge deal.

What matters most IMHO is what happened next. A couple of campus cops come to the guy and they tell him to stop and step out of the room. He refuses. They grab his arm. His other arm is raised, he starts yelling for "help" meaning I suppose that he wants other students to come and wrestle with the cops (?) That gets him the inciting to riot charge right there. About 4 campus cops are dragging him around but the guy is big, he can keep his arm up and his grip on the book the whole time. They large campus cop tackles him and then the real wrestling match begins. It doesn't look like any of the campus cops are all that great in their technique to subdue and cuff him. They taser him and he screams out but seconds later they have him on his feet and he does not appear to be injured and they remove him from the room.

Judging by Kerry's calm reaction, it looks like the guy could have asked a couple of tough questions and Kerry would have answered but that wasn't enough for him. He basically says that he is not going to play nice or by the rules when he says that Kerry got 2 hours and he got 2 minutes.

Creating a public disturbance. Resisting arrest. Inciting to riot. Assault on a police officer.

Not exactly Ghandi-esque behavior.

[bigmonkey]

66. Ok, you've pinpointed it.

The real problem begins when the police ask him to stop. You focus on what happened after that, but the question for the rest of us is: why can the police tell someone who is asking an unruly question to stop, on pain of arrest?

And it's Gandhi.

[KurtNYC]

76. in the shaky video you can see a person behind him give a signal to

cut the microphone and then it is cut off. The person is in a suit and appears to be a civilian.

They tell him he has exceeded his time and later they added that he used profanity ("blowjob" ?) Kerry calls his questions "important" and seems prepared to respond. Exceeding the time alotted seems to be the reason that he was stopped. Kerry even responds during his questions, saying that he has read the Palast book. It seems like the guy could have asked a question or two and stopped and everything would have been fine.

I don't see evidence that the content of his questions was the problem nor were the campus cops the ones who decided to cut the mic off.

[mistertrickster]

141. The cops were the ones the ones that grabbed him though, right, Kurt?

[aquamarina]

116. DING DING DING DING

Spot on.
We have a winner.

Exactly - Why can the police tell someone who is asking an unruly question to stop, ON PAIN OF ARREST OR TASER?????

Thank you Bigmonkey for illuminating the real point of this entire incident.

[mike_c]

112. breaking the rules should result in civil confrontation, not police state tactics....

"Breaking the rules" set by the organizers of the talk is not illegal, nor does it justify police action. The gentleman was perhaps impolite, maybe he was rude, maybe he ran over his allotted time. I deal with those sorts of situations all the time in my professional life, as does Senator Kerry no doubt-- they are simply a fact of public discourse. In fact, Senator Kerry dealt with it the best possible way, IMO, by acknowledging the gentleman's concerns and offering to discuss them.

There was never any time that this gentleman was a threat to anything or anyone. The most he was guilty of was being a jerk. The last time I checked, we dealt with folks making fools of themselves with civil confrontation-- "Would the gentleman please phrase his question clearly and succinctly so that others will have time to speak?"-- refusing to let them get under our skin, or whatever. This was NEVER a situation that warranted police intervention.

We are simply too ready to let police apply law enforcement and criminal procedures in civil matters where they have no business. A friend sent me this comment today-- she sums it up very nicely:

> - the fact that campus police waded into what was a campus event - the
> student may have been a bit manic but he was only speaking! He was not
> threatening anyone. Colleges are supposed to be maintaining safe
> environments for students to challenge ideas - not forums of abuse for
> those who speak out - no matter how over the top their dialog might
> become. Its all about the learning - we don't teach with tasers!
>
> - or the comments online - Oh My God! - there are some sane voices but
> they seemed to be overwhelmed by the opinions of hateful, stupid, idiots
> who think that anyone who resists a policeman is a thug and deserves
> what he gets. This kind of blind submission to authority that seems
> happy that we are being "protected" is sooo terrifying!
>
> Am I wrong in thinking that 30 years ago this would have caused a campus
> riot?! And rightly so?! How do we go so quickly from trusting NO ONE in
> authority - to laughing and applauding when Nazi cops repeatedly taser a
> student for using his right to free speech. WTF!
>
> Who is responsible here? Some of us are not speaking out enough. And my
> generation has been lax in teaching about our civil rights  - not to
> mention our passive resistance skills. Kids, don't physically resist in
> altercations with the cops - go completely limp. Make them drag you away
> - but don't resist. You have a right to do this - just as you have the
> right to speak at a public event. And, at a public funded University all
> such events are public.

[KurtNYC]

129. he wasn't tasered for speaking - he was tasered for holding onto a campus cop

he wasn't "repeatedly tasered" and they gave him 40 seconds to comply (between the warning and the tasing)
I'm not a "hateful, stupid idiot" -- just a pragmatist.

But your friend is right about the "go limp" and make them drag you away. Asking tough and important questions is worth creating, if necessary, a little confrontation but an extended wrestling match with 4 campus cops adds nothing.

[bigmonkey]

148. Once the police have him "under control" then all bets are off.

According to current practice in the US, the police get to decide how they "feel" about the person, and then can do whatever they like to "restrain" them. My surmise is that for someone without experience in being arrested, the likelihood that they will do something that will seem "threatening" to the police will be very high, and whether the action is "threatening" is totally determined by the police. The fellow who was tasered in the University library in California (have I got California right?) was tasered because he wasn't moving, or was moving to slowly, for instance. Why wouldn't going limp call forth tasering for going limp, and then more tasering for "looking threatening" when getting up? We know from the Rodney King incident that writhing in pain on the ground can be portrayed in court as "threatening" to the police.

The real question is, how does an unruly question become a police matter? It's clear that the police can't be counted on to restrain themselves, and too many authoritarian types here take their side no matter what.

(edit for spelling)

[geek_sabre]

145. delete nt

[RangerRK]

12. you guys are all joking right?

The kid said he would leave BEFORE they tasered him. He was never a threat.

I'm concerned about the country y'all want to live in.

Would you all be the same posters that defended the cops attacking Rev Yearwood?

[midlife_mo_Jo]

93. All the while he is saying it, he is resisting arrest.

From the beginning he resisted the cops. He would not allow them to remove him. He never once complied.

After he's broken the law, he's supposed to call the shots and say, "Time. I quit! I'll leave, now!"

You know, I really don't think that's how it works when you're resisting arrest!

[baby_mouse]

131. There were people DEFENDING that crap???

I wasn't on the site at that time.

Oh, why am I even surprised. This site gets weirder and weirder very day.

[wisteria]

154. Where is your link to this "new development" .

I listened to two videos and didn't hear him say that at all. And how do you explain your defense of him when he was being disruptive to begin with by butting in line and demanding to be heard- asking not one but at least two questions before insisting on getting in another one?

[Bitwit1234]

13. At least we know that Senator Kerry and democrats don't

pick and choose questioners. That democrats aren't afraid of tough questions. It is sad that the police could not control this out of control student. But then this is the way most republicans act. Did you see the female police officer trying to calm him down and he would shut up.

[Hippo_Tron]

14. The student was a niussance, not a danger

At the most, the cops should have lifted him off the ground and tossed him out of the building.

Tasers should be used in dangerous situations only.

[HardWorkingDem]

31. Did you not see him resisting?

There is a point where he is waving his arms around and actually resisting the police. It's not like he just sat down on the ground and became a lump.

[republicansarewhores]

38. And what was he resisting for?

Being escorted away for asking "uncomfortable" questions?

What fucking country are we living in?

RAW

[HardWorkingDem]

127. My point is...

that in my state it is unlawful to resist arrest, even if the arrest is unlawful. Sounds strange, but it's true.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

150. That's not why he was "escorted away" ... nice try.

Maybe if he hadn't acted like such a flaming asshole we would have gotten the answers to his questions. I have mixed feelings about Kerry, but I'm pretty certain he wasn't intimated by some loud-mouth punk standing before a microphone. There's a time and place for being a loud-mouth punk, and that wasn't it. And no, I don't support the Taser-ing.

[wisteria]

159. Oh please, the questions had nothing to do with anything.

It was the opinion of the police in attendance that he was being overly disruptive and could be a possible threat. It was their call to remove a potential threat.

[ShortnFiery]

72. Ever hear of "pressure points"? cops are trained to use those! It would have taken 2 or 3 cops at

the MOST to "handle" this guy and the FIRST priority would be to get him out of the building. They would not even to have had to do the paperwork involved in arresting him because he would know that he was no longer heard in that forum.

That gaggle of at least 8 to 10 police officers around him was like watching an old episode of "The Keystone Kops" in action. To add insult to injury, when the man was completely subdued, face and belly kissing the ground with handcuffs on, the supervisor ADDs, "Tase Him." In my opinion, the supervisor should be disciplined for "excessive force." You do not add *a little punishment* on the side to a fully subdued subject. It may make sadistic audience members cheer, but it is MORALLY and LEGALLY WRONG.

No joke, my 13 year old daughter could TAKE HIM DOWN within 10 seconds with the assistance another black belt GIRL buddy. These cops were sufficient in number, they could have carried him out a.s.a.p.

Police Officers are trained EXTENSIVELY in immediate take down of subjects. These guys were just SAD and the tasing makes everyone from the top brass on down look pathetically incompetent. :(

[HardWorkingDem]

126. BS. Have you ever arrested someone? I have...

And it is a very common error to think it is easy to handcuff or "take down" people, even if barely resisting.

And if you don't believe me, do a simple google or youtube video search on arrests and see for yourself how hard it is to handcuff people who don't want to be. It's not easy.

I was not there and can't speak for the taser part, but can suggest if he was kicking his feet at the officers, then that is enough to get him tazed.

[John Q. Citizen]

15. Yeah, but tazering? You just except tasering?

[2rth2pwr]

17. Doesn't anyone remember why Tasers are used?

Would people prefer that the batons be used or that if someone is resisting they should be shot? The expectation of some people that when confronted with an individual who is resisting that the police should engage in a physical fight with the suspect is loony.

What is the alternative? If someone doesn't agree with being detained we should respect their wishes and come back later to see if everything has worked out?

[ShortnFiery]

73. The man was NOT resisting at that point. He had handcuffs on and was subdued. :( nt

[2rth2pwr]

88. He was resisting the entire time.

When they were unable to get him to walk out of the auditorium they had him on the ground, he continued to resist and was yelling "get the fuck off me!". He was told to put his hands behind his back, he continued fighting, they attempted to put cuffs on and he was attempting to pull his arms away. He was warned he would be tasered, he had the taser on his chest and he continued to scream yell and struggle.

I will not ask police officers to wrestle and expose themselves to physical harm when other methods are available.

[ShortnFiery]

94. Police officers are trained in "take downs" the first resort is NOT break out the taser

but to subdue the person. So as the guys prostrate on the floor, with cuffs on, it's A OK by you for them to juice him 50,000 volts just for being a nuisance. :shrug:

[2rth2pwr]

96. It's ok to use force when he has been given a

warning. He was not being a "nuisance" he was endangering people with physical harm.

[ShortnFiery]

98. B.S. he was not endangering people. Sometimes judgement is subjective but this subject was floored

and handcuffed. What part of "the subject was fully subdued" before he was TASERED do you not copy?!? Tasing someone after they have been fully subdued is "excessive force" and/or punishment.

Cops don't "protect and serve" in order to dole out punishments in accordance with their judgement calls. Many cops are embarrased of these stooges behavior. Good, moral cops DO NOT tase a subdued subject. :(

[2rth2pwr]

100. fully subdued is our point of disagreement

he was not fully handcuffed when tasered.

[wisteria]

160. No, they tasered him becasue he wouldn't allow them to handcuff him. n/t

[ThePowerofWill]

106. Seems you forget what Tasers are for.

Tasers were supposed to be an alternative to deadly force, not a clubbing. On that note having had both done too me i prefer the clubbing to the tasering. It's not quite as painful.

[2rth2pwr]

113. Ok , I'll put you down as an advocate of

clubbing first then tasering.

[ThePowerofWill]

144. Don't put words in my mouth.

I never said or inferred any such thing. My remark was to explain to you tasers are for use as an alternate to "deadly force", not as a common tool to be used when other methods would suffice.

[Morereason]

121. Slippery slope we have embarked on

Yes,
Tasers were meant to be used in violent situations instead of guns. We were promised they would not be used this way. Funny how quickly we have accepted them and embraced them as an ordinary tool.

Wake up folks!

[baby_mouse]

132. Tasers are potentially fatal

And, er, what's this "Should they get shot? Huh?" thing?

[OzarkDem]

18. Is this the 1950's?

Its a good thing these regressive attitudes weren't present during the days when our country was founded.

Can you imagine them tasering Paul Revere, then taking him back to the jail for a friendly session of torture?

Passionate dissent in the name of one's country is what our country was founded on. Its a sad, sorry day when we lose sight of that.

[ryanus]

20. He wasn't screaming. Kerry said he'd answer. The police were the disturbance

That's what you are missing

[zonkers]

21. A university ought to be wary about taser use. Too many things can go wrong and you can get sued..

Much better to have beefier security. Seems like the ones they had were sort of puny.

[OzarkDem]

24. Kerry supporters aren't thinking

about how jumping on the bandwagon to condemn the kid and condone police brutality is making their candidate look bad.

You're not helping Kerry or yourself.

[ddeclue]

114. Oh brother...get a clue...

Firstly - Kerry isn't a candidate for anything this time except U.S. Senator from Massachutsetts.

Secondly - Kerry didn't have anything to do with the cops tasering and he wasn't in any position to stop it either. This clown brought the cops down on himself, Kerry didn't do it. Anyone who has ever watched an episode of cops knows you don't antagonize the cops by making a public disturbance like this and behaving in a threatening way. It will get you cuffed and stuffed if you're lucky or tasered, bit, clubbed and/or shot if you are unlucky.

Had Kerry actually BEEN a candidate for President and this had happened, I'm sure that the Secret Service wouldn't have let this go on as long as the U of F campus police did and this guy would have been hauled out much earlier.

Doug D.

[Seabiscuit]

119. Spoken like a good German in 1940. Ozark Dem is absolutely right.

The student did absolutely nothing illegal, had committed no crime. He was exercising his free speech rights. No one had any right to cut off his microphone. Since they did, he walked closer to the stage so Kerry could hear him. That's when the police attacked, causing the disturbance. All the student did was raise his arms and try to move away from the attack and ask what he was doing wrong. Four cops were more than enough to push him towards the exit yet they tasered him because they were behaving like fascist bootlicking Brownshirt pigs. The ACLU should file suit on this student's behalf against the pigs who attacked him and against the University who condones it.

You should be ashamed of yourself for looking the other way like that and being so accepting of fascist police state tactics against the citizenry and against the law and against the U.S. Constitution.

[wisteria]

157. The police thought otherwise and they are the authority in this matter.

Whether there was more force used than necessary will be reviewed. No one is above the law.
Oh, and please, this is not 1940 Germany. The student spent a night in jail and was driven home the next day by his lawyer, he didn't appear to to have suffered any lingering effects from the taser. I bet the next we here from him it is not to thank all of his supporters who defended his right to be disruptive and demanding,but to let us know he is suing the university.

[wisteria]

156. I agree. n/t

[wisteria]

155. Sorry, but the Student did this as a prank and if he would of listened to the officers

he would not of been tasered. I am not saying they were correct to taser him, but he was not complying to their request and I can understand why they felt a need to restrain him in order to cuff him. What would you of done if you had a suspect who was resisting arrest- just let him go? I think your concern over this student is misplaced,unfortunately. He probably doesn't appreciate it at all. And, He certainly didn't appear any worse for the tasering and his night in jail.

Oh, and I don't buy your argument that we have to be nice to this student because if we don't Kerry looks bad. Sorry, this kid set up the Senator in a way in order to gain his 15 minutes of fame.

[Mend]

26. you are definitely not from the 60's when our protests made this guy

look like a rabbit. But Kerry is and he should have known better. We are trying to save democracy here, not be good little children.

[fiore280]

29. but what about increasing the quality of political discourse?

I don't think screaming like an unhinged mental patient comes even close to what our founding fathers had in mind. He did nothing to save democracy. Don't you think he would have been a lot more effective if he asked the questions in a civilized and impassioned way. That would do more to save democracy than his sorry display.

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[fiore280]

62. my lies?

Okay, it's not like he was actually screaming per se before the cops touched him, but he was speaking in an intimidating manner, one where I would feel threatened if someone spoke to me that way. I never said that the cops should have touched him in the first place, but once they did, he made the biggest scene possible. It doesn't matter that he was flailing only after they touched him. The fact is, that he resisted and behaved erratically.

[CRF450]

70. Exactly!

He could have complied and let them walk him outside and nothing more would happen. He only has himself to blame.

[ShortnFiery]

75. So who now gets to decide who's "screaming like a mental patient" or "who is a terrorist"?

Jose Padilla knows that we all can be detained indefinitely.

who?

Any guesses?

Bueller?

Bueller?

YES, It's The Unitary Executive and other deemed Authority Figures from The Fatherland. :wow:

[YvonneCa]

111. "I don't think screaming like an unhinged mental patient comes even close to what our ...

...founding fathers had in mind." I LOVE it! :7

[JVS]

125. Yeah because dressing up as Indians and throwing tea into the ocean is refined

:eyes:

[wisteria]

158. What, known better about what?

I grew up in the sixties and I don't see where all of those over the top protests got us any where.

Senator Kerry tried to prevent the incident by taking the additional question, the officers who are in charge made the decision to remove him. What exactly should Kerry of known better about? What did you expect him to do?

[Truth2Tell]

27. The kid didn't scream until the cops grabbed him.

Maybe that's why people are "missing" that point? :shrug:

[OzarkDem]

28. Kent State Killings

According to your logic, shall we also assume you were in favor of the ONG killing the Kent State students?

[fiore280]

33. No, that's ridiculous

In Kent State, people were killed. This kid will be able to go on with his life and feel okay the next day.

[mark414]

37. but they were causing a public disturbance, and could have been a potential threat

lots of angry people marching around and yelling? that's dangerous!

and tasers DO kill people.

stop excusing brutality and fascism.

[american_typeculture]

30. Yes, and per haps there will be a tea service in his jail cell.

And the cops and the perp and the judge can sit around rationally and discuss this issue over biscuits. Oh, and then the judge will let the poor fellow go after coming to the conclusion that it was all just a big misunderstanding.

[bos1]

32. YOU are missing the point and thinking like a totalitarian.

he WASN'T "screaming" at the senator or becoming "intimidating". To say "he brought upon the tasering himself" is a very undemocratic reaction. Even Kerry says it's a shame what the cops did.

[fiore280]

35. It's not like the cops had a political agenda

When you ACTIVELY resist police intervention, you bring upon tasering yourself. Remember the kid in the UCLA library who got tasered? He was just sitting there, passively resisting. I felt bad for HIM and thought it was bull. But this kid was flailing all over the place an making a scene. The reason the cops removed the kid in the first place was because he was becoming unruly. He ripped the mic out of another student's hand before the video even took place. do you know that? Then, once he flails all over the place in the face of police intervention, HE IS A THREAT. Some people wouldn't even think twice about stabbing an officer. I bet this kid would not stab anyone, but he could. It is a safety issue. Tasering subdued him and made sure that none of the officers were hurt trying to do their job.

[bos1]

42. "he was unruly". DEMOCRACY is unruly!

You keep repeating non-truths -- "the kid was flailing" -- he was flailing AFTER the police starting dragging him away while he was listening to Kerry's answer!

Your argument reminds me of the shameful people in the audience who applauded as he was dragged away -- fearful and timid and undemocratic.

[fiore280]

46. yeah, and you don't flail around

while in the hands of police. Sorry, but that is stupid. Fighting and resisting officers is stupid. It will get you nowhere, and everyone knows that.

[Desertrose]

50. Bullshit. He was not trying to attack them

He was attempting to extricate himself and defend himself.

He was upset, definitely, but with good reason.

[CRF450]

54. Fighting them doesn't mean he was attacking them!

He got what he deserved. They attemted to calmly escort him out, but no he had to resist and be an idiot.

[fiore280]

57. It doesn't matter

He was actively resisting and continuing to cause a disturbance. He put the cops in a position where they had to decide what was best for the safety of everyone involved. Give the kid a shock so he will stop behaving erratically, or let him continue to resist, flail, and flop around, without knowing what he might try. I'm not speaking about this kid, but in the presence of an arresting officer SOME FOLKS WILL DO ANYTHING. If I were a cop, I probably would not have done it, but I can't fault someone for making the decision to go ahead with it.

[ShortnFiery]

79. No WAY! Look at the video again? You must be watching a different one. nt

[Desertrose]

48. They told him he was being arrested for *inciting a riot*.

Did you hear that part?

Please show me how ANY OTHER STUDENTS there were ready to riot. Hell most of then just sat there or applauded when the cops drug him out & tasered him.

So you drag unruly students out in the middle of an auditorium,cuff them and then taser them. Wow.


They thought this kid was a "threat"? Did he show a weapon? Did he make threats? No, he asked some questions. Damn,glad I'm not on that campus.

Six officers to one student....yes I'm sure that is a fair number to assume no officers would be hurt.


He may have been obnoxious but he did no seem threatening to anyone physical safety when he was "removed" by the officers.

DR

[FloridaJudy]

83. At one point it looked as if he broke away

And started running toward the podium. Had I been there, I would have been scared as hell: who could know what his intentions were? I've been physically attacked by crazies who were far less strident than this guy appeared. I do think the cops over-reacted when they tased him, but they certainly had every reason to remove him from the premises in the interest of public safety.

[republicansarewhores]

36. The kid presented NO THREAT WHATSOEVER.

If people don't realize what an important story this is they are asleep.

There was NO disruption, just a kid passionate about stating the facts and asking Kerry a question about election fraud and impeachment. Here's a FULL video of the entire incident from start to finish. The only "threat" the kid presented was ASKING AN UNCOMFORTABLE QUESTION that our FUCKING IMPOTENT ELECTED OFFICIALS aren't DOING ANYTHING ABOUT.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqAVvlyVbag


Don't ever ask a question of an elected representative in America that people don't want to hear or acknowledge or this will happen to you. Especially not if you are a student at a CAMPUS TOWN HALL FORUM asking about IMPEACHMENT.

And Johnny "Come Lately" Kerry is an embarrassment as a leader as well for not answering the question and stopping the violation of this kid's free speech rights while it was happening but "condemning" it now. No wonder he lost the last election. FUCK HIM TOO. I'm embarrassed I ever believed in him.

I've read some of Palast's book, and he's done the research to back what the student was asking.

How nice that facts are expressed about election fraud and this is how the kid is treated. This kid was completely within his rights as well as his anger regarding the continued lies and his questions. It's appalling.

Isn't it especially chilling to hear people CLAPPING as this is happening? I imagine it's the same kind of clapping and approval Germans gave when Jews were hauled off in Nazi Germany.

Local Florida "News" Coverage spinning what you just saw with your own eyes above.

********************************************************************

GAINESVILLE, Fla. -- A University of Florida student was Tasered and arrested after trying to ask U.S. Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass., about the 2004 election and other subjects during a campus forum.

Videos of the incident posted on several Web sites show officers pulling Andrew Meyer, 21, away from the microphone after he asks Kerry about impeaching President George W. Bush and whether he and Bush were both members of the secret society Skull and Bones at Yale University.

"He apparently asked several questions -- he went on for quite awhile -- then he was asked to stop," university spokesman Steve Orlando said. "He had used his allotted time. His microphone was cut off, then he became upset."

As two officers take Meyer by the arms, Kerry is heard to say, "That's alright, let me answer his question." Audience members applaud, and Meyer struggles to escape for several seconds as up to four officers try to remove him from the room.

Meyer screams for help and asks "What did I do?" as he tries to break away from officers. He is forced to the ground and officers order him to stop resisting. Meyer says he will walk out if the officers let him go.

As Kerry tells the audience he will answer the student's "very important question," Meyer struggles on the ground and yells at the officers to release him, crying out, "Don't Tase me, bro," just before he is Tasered. He is then led from the room, screaming, "What did I do?"

Meyer was charged with resisting an officer and disturbing the peace, according to Alachua County jail records. No bond had been set. Meyer was scheduled to appear in court Tuesday morning, a jail official said.

It was not known if Meyer had an attorney.

Orlando said university police would conduct an internal investigation.

"The police department does have a standard procedure for when they use force, including when they use a Taser," Orlando said. "That is what the internal investigation would address -- whether the proper procedures were followed, whether the officers acted appropriately."

RAW

[RangerRK]

56. It seems some people are hoping that others will not actually watch the video

and believe their reports....like Kerry for instance expects us to believe he didn't know what was happening. The kid was screaming 'don't taser me'!

Many people have been killed by the police with tasers. Someone is out of control here and it ain't the kid asking questions.

[KurtNYC]

68. they didn't taser him for asking questions -- a cop is heard saying: "if you

don't let go of me you will be tasered"

and then it is a full 40 seconds before the taser sound is heard. 40 seconds of wrestling with cops is an eternity. "out of control" cops would not have waited that long.

[wisteria]

161. Kerry was not there at that time-period. I believe the Senator. n/t

[AntiFascist]

89. Congratulations, this is the first post that even mentions...

what the student was asking about. I was about to post that "The Point is Missing."

Now, if the kid was really acting like a mental patient and blabbering on about something that didn't make sense, then it would be understandable why he would be carted away by police. But, apparently Kerry felt that he was having a productive dialog with the student. Inquiring minds want to know what the dialog was about.

If the dialog involved passionate questions concerning election fraud, then it might be understandable why the Florida powers might consider this a sensitive issue and invoke the fascism they have been known for. Impeachment might also be considered a sensitive issue in Florida.

[Beelzebud]

39. The point you're missing is this trend to de-sensitize us to be treated like livestock.

I don't blame John Kerry at all for what happened today.

I blame the police, and most of all, I blame the citizens who cheered when they tasered him. I blame citizens who CHEER when one of their own is treated like an out of control animal on a farm.

[madrchsod]

40. who was the guy in the suit that cut his mike off?

maybe someone should figure out that

[Desertrose]

41. I can't believe so many are not outraged by this.

I can't believe that so many say the kid was somehow "deserving" of the treatment he received from the police.

I can't believe this is supposed to be "democratic underground".


But I can believe we are becoming more and more a police state.

Times are similar to the 60's but back then it just made us more determined. I can't imagine an audience of my peers applauding when the cops drug one of us out.

No way.

Really unbelievable so many here defending the police for this totally uncalled for tasering of a rather vocal student.

DR

[fiore280]

43. HE WASN'T AT A POLITICAL RALLY, it's a SPEECH n/t

[Desertrose]

49. I don't care. Questions were being accepted,right?

Do you remember what this country was like before FREE SPEECH ZONES?


Since when is a person not allowed to ask questions??

Since when must a person be arrested cuffed and TASERED as a way to remove them from the room?

FREE SPEECH MY ASS.

Wake the hell up people.

DR

[slowry]

69. He wasn't asking questions; he was lecturing/yelling over the guest. Gahhhhhhhhhhhhh n/t

[bos1]

52. don't you know the word SPEECH sometimes has FREE in front of it? nt

[AngryOldDem]

55. So you're telling me that the number of cops they had there...

...and I'm sure there was a hell of a lot more of them than the four or five the tape showed...could not have escorted this kid out of the room, with no further distraction or incident? Look at the protesters who were hauled out of the Petraeus hearing last week. It wasn't the time or place for that demonstration either, but it was handled much more professionally than what these Barney Fifes did at UF.

One cop I saw -- who easily outweighed this kid and was much taller -- seemed to be just standing around watching while the other three were struggling. Why?

All that aside, it seems like tasers are the answer to everything for some police officers these days, and that bothers me A LOT. Tasers CAN kill.

And, one more thing before I go: How long does it take for "disruptive speech and behavior" to be redefined as to include anything a public figure **doesn't** like or **doesn't** want to answer, or anything that **just won't look good** to the powers-that-be? That's what we also need to be looking at here, and I don't think I'm overstating anything or being melodramatic.

That's how our rights get taken away: Quietly, and with us silently going along because we don't see what is happening until after it's too late.

[bos1]

44. Agreed. This is yet another scene that look more like Belarus than the US

and I keep seeing a lot of them lately

[La Lioness Priyanka]

58. agreed, i also cant believe that people are blaming kerry for this.

[RangerRK]

63. I think 'they' want us to believe there are alot of sick fascists in this country

I refuse to believe that the people supporting this police action are for real. No one is that sick!

[Laughing Mirror]

103. A police state it has become, it is obvious

But I wonder if maybe people have become so inured to it, it is maybe less obvious to them as it becomes a part of everyday life. So that when they see cops pounce on an adrenaline-charged emotional student haranguing the senator, and then taser him, they think it's the normal appropriate response. It's the right thing to do.

If the student had been physically threatening to the senator, it is hard to imagine the senator could not have defended himself. Members of the audience surely would have pitched in. Why the need for all this muscular police activity? It's everywhere now. It's gestapo style.

We've been noticing almost a phenomenon of police dragging people out of political places recently. This has now become acceptable. So people are defending it, even on DU.

I didn't catch any of Kerry's responses to the student's questions. I'd love to hear how he responded to the student's last question. The moment that student said skull and bones, like on cue, the cops dove in and dragged him out.

It is almost surreal watching those clips.

[PDenton]

45. I just thought maybe he'd been reading a little too much Daily Kos

That guy was really worked up.

Having said that... who pays Senator Kerry's salary? I think politicians should face tough, passionate questions. Alot of people were disappointed that he did not fight the election results. Personally, I understand why he did what he did, and he will always be my hero. He had a really tough fight, lots of Bushbots were still madly in love with the Fuhrer and the Iraq war, and of course the Republicans found their wedge issue in gay marriage. His concession speech was beautiful, but hard to watch. The long national nightmare was not over. I think he would have made a great president.

I can understand how some people are angry. This guy might have crossed a line, though. It is not hard to figure out why Kerry didn't contest the election; the race was just not close enough. Can you imagine the mudslinging Republicans would have done to Democrats? 2000 wasn't pretty, why would 2004 be any prettier with a recount?

[Cha]

59. Yeah, you would be at

bill kristol speech..and a bushbot rally but I don't think tasering is the answer. What would the police have done before the whole taser thing was invented?

[fiore280]

60. oh come on...

Don't give me that. Every time I see Bill Kristol, I want to knock his inflated neocon head clean off his shoulders. He is among the worst of the worst. I don't think tasering is the answer either. But sometimes certain non-lethal measures have to be taken to calm a potential threat.

[reality based]

67. "Potential threat" Where have we heard that before?

Wasn't that one of the reasons for "Shock and Awe" against Iraq.

[ShortnFiery]

81. Perhaps "the decider" can ask Congress to pass a law to hold such contemptible people

INDEFINITELY? :eyes:

[reality based]

84. Do we have to have laws for that anymore? n/t

[Cha]

71. Don't "give" you what? I don't understand

your post?

[fiore280]

74. just meant

telling me that I would be at a Kristol Speech or Bushbot event. Because I wouldn't...except to ask tough questions and provide some tame and calm opposition.

[ShortnFiery]

82. "tame and calm opposition" - oh yeah, that'll work.

:eyes: You can beat your children behind closed doors CITIZEN, but be tame and polite to your Congress-Critter. :crazy:

[Cha]

92. Sorry, I meant you or anyone would be

be more likely to be likely to be taken away(perhaps tasered) at a kristol speech if they ask out of order questions.

[fiore280]

107. hah, yeah

I have to admit that. Even though I am the original author of this post which has caused quite a flame war, you are right. I would be likely to be taken away or tasered at a Kristol speech. That little freak gets under my skin so bad I would have some trouble staying calm. haha

[kdpeters]

61. Those cops made ZERO attempt at peaceful resolution

It even looked to me like he was about to walk away from the mic when it was cut off. They didn't speak to him. They didn't ask him to leave. They snuck up from behind and put their hands on his body. They never tried to diffuse the situation. They only escalated and escalated. These cops are out of control and are no longer concerned with keeping the peace, simply keeping us in order. He was unarmed, on the floor, his hands in the air underneath four very big men. He was no threat to anyone. He was tased for asking questions.

Welcome to the police state. Don't bother to wake up now.

[2rth2pwr]

97. Why should they be required to negotiate with him?

He cut in line, was asked by a female off camera to step away- he refused. His mic was cut-off, he continued ranting. Why should assholes and jackasses get special treatment?

[YvonneCa]

77. Thank you for making this...

...point. My thoughts:

I strongly support Senator Kerry. In his statement, the Senator defended lively debate and discussion, for which he is always a champion. He expressed care and concern for ALL those involved...including the student and the police. The Senator is a man of integrity. This event does nothing to change that.

I understand the Florida student's questions...they are important, and deserve answers. But this has nothing to do with John Kerry, other than he was a speaker/performer. What if this were a concert? Would you blame the musicians?

Security for events is there to protect the PEOPLE in the audience...ALL of them. What if this guy had a hidden weapon that could harm the others in the audience? Wouldn't you want security to keep you safe?

Although the Florida student's questions were good, he was behaving like an attention-seeking sixth grade child. In my opinion, he was having an adult 'temper tantrum', when his discussion with Senator Kerry was interrupted by campus police. Choices have consequences. The Florida student made a very loud, public choice...and he's intelligent enough to predict the police reaction. If he didn't know what to expect, he should have.

I don't know if campus police handled this perfectly, but I have a difficult time seeing how it could become the senator's fault. His part was to use the microphone to try to calm the crowd...which he DID. He offered to answer the questions. He said to remain calm. He kept talking to the crowd to keep control as best one could, given the disruptive circumstances. No one could do any more than that.

I am not aware of the rules for questioners at this event nor do I know this student's history with campus police. Like the Senator, however, I think lively debate is good... and it's always a shame to have it interrupted. I have attended several Kerry events where he handled similar questions just fine.And I've been to CIVIL rallies where Kerry has answered every question put to him...including the election and impeachment questions.

I'm FOR civility...not tasering.

Sorry for that result at your speech, Senator. I've attended a few of your public events, and you handle every one with dignity and integrity. Given the opportunity, I'm sure this one would have been the same.

[fiore280]

90. Amen n/t

[Seabiscuit]

139. Men of integrity don't publish obvious lies.

Kerry's statement included a big lie about not being aware of the tasering until he left the building.

He's on videotape standing on the stage and saying nothing while the student was being tasered.

But I digress.

The episode is not about Kerry. It's about the militarization of the police into a bunch of thugs using gestapo tactics to suppress political dissent.

[goodhue]

78. The cops unduly escalated the situation, not the student

And there was absolutely no need to use the taser

[Seabiscuit]

85. Escorting the student out was one thing. Nothing justified the tasering.

Tasers are being used as vindictive and sadistic punishment by cops against students today. It's a form of fascism because tasers are consistently being abused by the police as a matter of policy. All tasers should be banned and confiscated from every police force and campus police force.

[fiore280]

91. should they use batons instead?

[Seabiscuit]

104. No. They had more than enough cops to escort him out without using any weapons.

[Marrah_G]

95. This is the part of the tape you don't see

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CheY0jYXJjY&NR=1

He is a truly obnoxious little asshat.

[ShortnFiery]

99. Even obnoxious little asshats have civil rights and are not to be tased after they're subdued.

Yes, if "authority" does not like you or my personality, can they drop and tase us too? You see the slippery slope here? :shrug:

[Marrah_G]

101. No slope at all

When you go into a hall, push in front of others and start ranting over the mic, expect to be asked to leave. If you refuse to leave, expect to get removed. If you resist being removed, expect to get tased.

It is blatantly obvious to anyone who watches the entire film that the kid was there to cause a scene. He succeeded in that.

[SaveOurDemocracy]

105. I think that about covers it. n/t

[ShortnFiery]

109. There were six burly officers there, this is NOT the streets of New Orleans right after the riots.

This is a college campus. My goodness, those guys could have smartly grabbed each arm in unison and carried his a** outside in a matter of 30 seconds.

Tasing should be one of "the last" options, ESPECIALLY when you have a large force of police officers. They should be embarrassed - especially since they tased him after he was SUBDUED. That clear demonstration of "excessive force" reflects badly on Police Officers in general. Those cops and their supervisors who show appropriate restraint are embarrassed by the jack booted tactics of their brethren. True, the blue wall will not allow them to speak out but there are a significant number of Police Officers who do not wish to use "the badge" as an excuse to behave like Nazi Storm Troopers at the least indication of resistance.

Again, cops are trained at the QUICK, take downs and swarming the subject. These SIX guys were, to put it mildly, incompetent. :shrug:

All you folks who say "tase him, he deserves it" wouldn't be so happy if it was your elderly mother or father caught and CONFUSED at the wrong place in the city - GETTING TASED for RESISTING jack booted authority. "Nice people get tased to ... but I guess it's alright if the subject is an asshole?"

[2rth2pwr]

128. Well put, can't argue with that. nt

[AnarchoFreeThinker]

102. I agree. Baaaah, Baaa-aaaah. Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

[ConfidentialStatus]

108. Sorry

I absolutely without a doubt, positively, certainly, and for sure disagree. BTW can someone please post Kerry's answers to the questions.

[Zavulon]

110. Lots of people have seen the video and there are varying opinions,

but I don't think anyone is really "missing" your point. The question is whether the kid was a threat or not. You think he was, I don't. There is no quantifiable proof on either side, but it looked bad. After all, on a board where almost all of us are inclined to defend a Democrat in Sen. Kerry's position against a Sean Hannity wannabe, I see Sen. Kerry's support here running at 50% or less. Appearances are the point, and that's the point I believe YOU are missing. It looked BAD.

Another point you may be missing is the appropriateness or lack thereof of thinking you're qualified to tell all of us what we're missing, as if you were a mind-reading authority with inside knowledge on the subject. I saw a bloviating ass getting in Sen. Kerry's face, but I didn't see a threat and didn't think tasering the kid was appropriate. I'm not the only one. Could you prove any of us wrong beyond a shadow of a doubt with this point you seem to think we're all missing? I'm guessing no.

[fiore280]

122. not really

I can't "prove" any points. Just thought that mine was a valid one that was largely overlooked here at DU. It's caused quite a debate here. And I guess technically, nobody is "missing" that point because most understand that there are people who might make that point. However, some may be missing it too.
I was curious what you meant by Sean Hannity wannabe. The kid? But he was super-liberal with his book in his hand by Greg Palast. (There are various camera angles in the video, but in one of the angles, I noticed that). So the kid's not a Hannity wannabe probably.
Additionally, I need some further clarification on the point you think I am missing "it looked bad". But what looked bad? Kerry not doing anything? Because I think his contention that he did not know that the kid was tased until he left the building has gone unchallenged. Kerry's probably in the clear for the most part, although it can look sorta bad. If that is what you mean, I think it is a minor point.

[Zavulon]

143. My reference to

"Hannity wannabe" was his absurd delivery of his points, not what they were. He sounded like an out-of-control blowhard that wouldn't accept any point but his own, but you do make a good point - I should have picked a different example. It's just that his delivery really reminded me of what Hannity sounds like, although I've only heard him a couple of times. My reference had nothing to do with the kid's actual questions, and you are correct to point out that it was far less than a perfect choice on my part.

My "it looked bad" meant the cops' actions reminded me of things I'd expect to see in North Korea. It isn't Kerry's fault, but I have no doubt the Hannitys and Limbaughs of the world will find a way to blame him.

I have no problem with anything Kerry did, I thought he handled everything with class and professionalism.

[Roy]

115. No point has been missed.....

Most of the threads started on this topic (not meaning this one, though I won't read this one either) is meant to do nothing less than to dilute the discourse of DU. It is working like a charm by the way.

Countless threads pushing real info into the archives from many people (trolls and disruptors) who know full well they are posting allegations and misinformation while ignoring what really happened.

I am sure this is but one good example of why so many really good posters have given up on DU and moved on to other blogs and forums.

[fiore280]

123. what a cynical contribution that was

This is a thread where we talk about it and sometimes argue about it. It's okay if you just want this topic to stay on a thread where everyone agrees, but it can't happen. This is a very complex issue. It would have to be an anit-police-brutality website or something. Anyway, I am far from being totally swayed by the dominant opinion of the DU community on this one, but I learned a little about why people do feel differently than me and that's okay.

[mistertrickster]

134. Totally agree. How the heck did this muddy up the "greatest page?"

Greatest what? Vote for more police tasering?

[Roy]

142. Thanks to the both of you for proving my point

You both totally ignored what I said and morphed it into very cute little straw men.

I said nothing about muddying up the greatest page nor wanting threads to agree with me or to agree with a specific side for I have none regarding this incident.
But go ahead and debate with yourselves, transparency is still transparent no matter what you convince yourselves it is.

[AikidoSoul]

117. Here's how Greg Palast describes the incident

Student Tasered for Armed Madhouse Question to Kerry
" said you won the 2004 election - isn't that amazing?
There were multiple reports of disenfranchising of Black voters on the day of the election in 2004 in Florida and Ohio. ... How could you concede the election on the day?"

by Greg Palast
Watch the Video (go to GregPalast.com)

We warned you: 'Armed Madhouse' is a dangerous book. Yesterday, Andrew Meyers, a University of Florida student was attacked by five cops, zapped with tasers and arrested after demanding that Senator John Kerry answer the question.

Meyers, just released from jail and now facing five years in prison for resisting arrest, held up a copy of the book and began,

Student to John Kerry: "I want to recommend a book to you. It's called 'Armed Madhouse by Greg Palast.' He's the top investigative journalist in America."

Kerry: "I have the book. I've already read it."

Student: "... In this book, it says there were 5 million votes and you won the election. ... How could you concede the election on the day?"

Meyers, a telecommunications student at the Gainesville campus, asked related questions including a query as to why Kerry refused to vote for impeachment. When he passed his alloted one minute mic time, five cops jumped him, threw him to the ground, shot him with taser shockers.

Kerry, true to character, stood immobile.

Now, I've given many talks. And some questioners have taken too long at the mic. But I've never done the Stalin thing of cops and electronic beating to limit the discussion. (Yes, it's true that Randi Rhodes recently threatened me with a taser when I've monopolized the mic in her studio.)

The Washington Post reported only that Meyers was holding a "mysterious yellow book." VERY mysterious.

I would note that enchained student was busted in Alachua County, Florida, where, six years ago, I uncovered massive, systematic and utterly illegal disenfranchisement of Black voters - ordered by Gov. Jeb Bush's office just before the 2000 election. ("Florida's Disappeared Voters," February 2001, The Nation.) Alachua remains under federal scrutiny for its long history of racial bias against Black voters.

I must admit I feel some appreciation for Meyers, especially because, even while he was being shot with untold amps of electricity, until he was handcuffed, he would not let go of his mysterious yellow book, 'Armed Madhouse.'


Hear the update live tonight on the new "Palast Report" on Air America Radio. The Palast Report will now broadcast every Tuesday night, at 9:30pm, on Richard Greene's new weeknight show, "Clout."

And get America's most SHOCKING book, the New York Times bestseller, ARMED MADHOUSE: From Baghdad to New Orleans -- Sordid Secrets and Strange Tales of a White House Gone Wild (Penguin 2007).

Subscribe to Palast's writings and view his investigative reports for BBC Television's Newsnight, at www.GregPalast.com.

[fiore280]

124. and that is a REALLY biased account

[Inuca]

130. Carelessly written self promotion IMHO

"telecommunication student"? The info everywhere is that he is a journalism and COMMUNICATIONS major, I assume Palast knows the difference between the two terms. Not that it matters much, it just shows how much thought and care he put into writting this. I hope that his other writings are better put together.

"enchained student"?

"Kerry, true to character, stood immobile." No, he did not. He was talking and trying to keep the calm in the auditorium, which was the right thing to do.

[Quixote1818]

118. Evidently the kid had gone on and on for a very long time

and no one else was able to get a question in. That is just rude.

If you watch the video it starts in right when things happen, but imagine this kid going on and on for several minutes dominating the question and answer session before all this happened.

[mistertrickster]

137. There's another video that shows the whole question, and he hadn't been

going on that long. It's at ifilms.

He was just finishing up and Kerry was answering when the police decided he had to be man-handled, forced to the ground, and tasered.

The kid was dumb and confrontational, but when he's screaming, "I didn't do anything," he's right. This was precipitated entirely by the ridiculous over-reaction of the police.

[The Count]

147. and the inability of Kerry to defuse the situation - it was HIS Q&A

He had several opportunities to take control, but he stood passive.

[Name removed]

133. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Apollo11]

135. The cops were out of line

John Kerry has said there was no need for the cops to intervene in the discussion.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2007/09/students-rally-.html

[mistertrickster]

140. I complained about this thread to the mods. So of course, they pulled MY post.

Sheesh. If this isn't pure flame-bait, I've never seen it before.

You people who R'd this to the "greatest page" should be ashamed.

[The Count]

146. poow wittle baby kerry! Threatened by a guy holding a microphone (which was cut too)

What danger was that?
As for Bill Kristol - I remember I saw a video of some event where he was - repeatedly heckled by several people. He behaved better than Kerry - and so did Coulter - it pains me to say.

[Alexander]

149. What, exactly, did Kerry do wrong?

He was trying to answer Meyer's questions, and condemned the tasering.

Hopefully your next post will contain more facts and less bullshit.

[wisteria]

162. This incident was not about the questions. Senator Kerry is alway receptive to questions and he was

willing to answer this additional question. I have seen him answer this question before. He certainly isn't afraid of it. Perhaps, it was the suggestion of the Clinton blow job in reference to impeachment that started to worry the police. That and his disrupting the Senator in the middle of another question and demanding to be heard. That is disrespectful behavior any way you look at it and it had nothing to do with Kerry.

[wisteria]

151. I agree with you. And question why some of our own would help carry the Repub water.

Republicans picked up on the negative responses of some people on the left blogs. And quickly figured out they were handed a free gift courtesy of a small group of anti-Kerry people on the left. They then proceeded to use this "gift" to repeat the old tired RW talking points and to discredit Senator Kerry and his strong opposition to the Iraq War, by alluding to him being weak and non-responsive to what was going on around him.
The timing was perfect, which makes me question the real motive behind this tasered student's theatrics. The Senate was set to vote on a series of Iraq War bills and Senator Kerry has devoted much time and effort into trying to set a deadline and fighting to bring about the real changes needed in Iraq to give our soldiers a strategy worthy of their service to our country.

If people continue to jump all over incidents without knowing all the facts and considering the consequences their actions pose to others, I am afraid we are doomed to keep losing to the Republicans. What does it say about some of the so called activists in our party when they jump all over our Representatives - in this case- Senator Kerry, who has been a diligent fighter for our causes and an ardent and receptive communicator here on the blogs and they go after him for perceived 2004 transgressions ignoring all he has accomplished since that time. To these people, I say kindly, please grow up get over it. Nothing is accomplished from reliving, or in this case rehashing the past. Your rehashing in this case has done harm not only to Senator Kerry's efforts regarding Iraq, but also to some of the efforts and hard work others have put in, trying to accomplish some of the same things Senator Kerry is.