Here is Hillary's PDF of her health care plan, for those who wish to comb through it.

[Fridays Child]

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/feature/healthcareplan/americanhealthchoicesplan.pdf

[LSK]

1. here is Edwards

http://www.johnedwards.com/about/issues/health-care-overview.pdf

[spindoctor]

13. That link isn't working for me n/t

[LSK]

2. here is Obama's

http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/HealthPlanOverview.pdf

http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/HealthPlanFull.pdf

[spindoctor]

14. Better than Hillary's

More detail, better strategy.
Still missing numbers.

[LSK]

3. Here is Kucinich's HR 676

http://www.house.gov/conyers/news_hr676.htm

[Fridays Child]

5. Thanks, and you might also want to offer this in its own thread...

...for those who are unaware of it or who may not see your post here.

[LSK]

6. I did

A year ago...

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/LSK/69

[Fridays Child]

7. This is probably a good time to do it again.

[spindoctor]

15. We have numbers!!!

And a question.

I thought the federal budget has 5% going towards health. That is only $100 billion, not the $957 billion listed here.

What am I missing here?

(and don't say 857!)

[Leftisalwaysright]

4. Great Stuff!

Thanks; it's good to actually have the facts as opposed to the lies the GOP spin machine have been forcing down America's throat.

[daninthemoon]

8. I'm a lazy Amurcan voter. Can someone mak a purty chart and

kinda like line em up side by side? Seriously, though.

[MethuenProgressive]

9. Gotta say, DU isn't really the place for getting facts and stuff read.

Perhaps if your subject line said "OJ" it might be getting more look-sees...

[AuntPatsy]

10. I disagree, alot of durs mark such posts to review later. Not everyone

has the time for full analysis on the spot that some posts might entail.

[Lethe]

11. so where are the percentages?

where are the specific percentages that list what a person or family will pay for mandatory health care premiums based on their income?

i just get the feeling that the poor will be screwed by this plan. What this sounds like to me is that the poor will be forced to pay health care premiums for substandard health care, which would be subsidized by the government in the form of a tax cut.

So a poor person who pays a percentage of their below poverty level salary will receive the same quality of coverage as a highly paid white collar worker with health insurance by their employer? Something don't add up.

[Fridays Child]

16. My question, too. And, I doubt that everybody gets the same quality of coverage.

[spindoctor]

12. I must admit, that's not too bad. Here's the part that I think is paramount

Well, my comments first.
This is of course the elevator version and really I am interested in details. But at least HRC recognizes that you cannot insure an industry that racks up bills equal to the entire federal revenue.

No insurance plan is going to work unless there are some serious reforms in the industry.
I'm really glad to see that she takes that into account. What I am missing though are some details on how she thinks to accomplish this, because it is easier said than done.

<snip>
One cause of the crisis in the health care system is that rather than containing costs, the system shifts
them: about half of all hospital losses are passed along to other payers.v Rather than reducing prices,
the system raises families’ costs. In fact, people in high-deductible plans are twice as likely to delay or
avoid needed care due to costs.vi Rather than rewarding health, the system pays more for acute
treatment than prevention, and gives individuals no direct incentives to promote their own health.
And, rather than covering all Americans, the system charges insured families a “hidden tax”: premiums
are roughly $900 higher to pay for the cost of care for the uninsured.vii Hillary Clinton’s American Health
Choices Plan is based on the principle of shared responsibility. This plan ensures that all who benefit
from the system contribute to its financing and management. Specifically, responsibilities include:
• Insurance and Drug Companies: For insurers, to end discrimination based on pre-existing
conditions or expectations of illness and ensure high value for every premium dollar; and
for drug companies, to offer fair prices and accurate information;
• Individuals: To get and keep insurance in a system where insurance is affordable and
accessible;
• Providers: To work collaboratively to provide high-quality care;
• Employers: To contribute to health coverage, with large firms required to provide health
insurance or contribute to the cost of the system, and small businesses offered tax
incentives to continue or begin to offer coverage;
• Government: To ensure that health insurance is always affordable through investments in
tax credits and the safety net so that coverage is never again a crushing financial burden;
to improve the quality performance of the system; and to end the upward cost spiral of the
system that threatens our health and economy.
</snip>

[Fridays Child]

17. What, in your opinion, does this mean?

"The refundable tax credit will be designed to prevent premiums from exceeding a percentage of family income, while maintaining consumer price consciousness in choosing health plans."

"Price consciousness" is a marketing term and I don't understand it's meaning, in this context.

[spindoctor]

18. Don't pick a plan you can't afford.

Because her plan offers a lot of freedom in choosing your favorite method (this plan is clearly constructed to please all), the purpose of the tax credit is to temper the cost of insurance on the one hand, and to limit the choices on the other.

At least, that's the way I read it. The use of marketing terms is not surprising, because like Obama's, marketing seems to be the main purpose of this "brochure" and it wouldn't surprise me if it was drafted on Madison Ave.

[Fridays Child]

20. I was heading toward the same meaning...

...but was having trouble formulating it, in my mind. Thanks for clarifying the passage. Slick terminology always makes me nervous. Why can't she just say what she means? I actually pre-submitted a question to her live Webcast about this business of consumer consciousness but, of course, it was not answered. The questions she answered were obviously picked well in advance, allowing her to give vague, upbeat answers. More of Madison Avenue's influence? I was disheartened.

[FooFootheSnoo]

19. It sounds ok, but it's kind of vague

Where are the numbers? I assume it must be fairly expensive if she's not comfortable showing some kind of estimate. What does "like Medicare" mean? Most Americans under 65 don't understand how Medicare works and would be shocked by how expensive it can be. It still sounds somewhat complicated with all the different options.

[Fridays Child]

21. No numbers.

I've looked and can't find them anywhere.