Quit calling the Drama Queen a kid... he's a 21 year old man.

[trumad]

Oh this poor little innocent kid. Ugg!

[slackmaster]

1. From the perspective of age almost 50, 21 is a kid

:nuke:

[trumad]

2. He's a man,

[slackmaster]

3. In my mind the two are not mutually exclusive

:D

[frazzled]

4. Indeed ...

I speak as someone who has "kids" older than that 21-year-old, so it's hard to differentiate the idea of man/woman from "kid." I prefer to call them young men and young women.

Even at my advanced age, my mother refers to me and my siblings as "the kids." At this point, I enjoy it.

[sandnsea]

8. If he didn't know what adulthood meant yesterday

he does today. There are adult consequences in adult society. Interrupt if you want, I sometimes applaud people who do. But expect to be escorted away or taken to jail. That's part of the deal.

And yeah, I find it humorous when parts of society call anybody up to age 25 a kid. But other parts of society want teen-agers tried as adults and put to death. I think the difference is obvious.

[TheUniverse]

11. Part of the deal of asking a politician questions is going to jail?

Maybe in Stalinist Russia...

[sandnsea]

12. complete distortion, ya know, a lie

alert and have it deleted. I am so sick of this bullshit.

[TheUniverse]

13. Hold on, you want my post deleted...

Distortion my ass, I saw the video, of course you want my posts deleted, thats the same tactics those cops were using.

[Occulus]

Why does "Ignored" always seem to prove why? n/t

[Bluebear]

21. You too? :)

[sandnsea]

16. no, mine

:eyes:

go ahead, get on with it.

I'm sick of the distortions.

This had nothing to do with questions and everything to do with a punk disrupting an event and refusing to cooperate when security attempted to escort him out.

[TheUniverse]

18. I don't delete anything.

I believe in freedom of speech for all. I have never nor will ever press the alert button. And thats a reason why I am against the actions of the cop. And now today Kerry condemned the actions of the cops also and Im glad he did. If something like this would have happened at a Tom Delay event Im sure that 99 percent of this board would be trashing the cops. But considering it happened at a Democratic event, the board seems split. Im just holding the Democrats up to the same standard I would hold Tom Delay to. And Im glad Kerry is finally doing the right thing, something I dont think a Tom Delay would.

[sandnsea]

19. The questions had nothing to do with it

The kid not shutting up to listen to the answers is what got him in trouble. It's a distortion to pretend this had anything to do with the kid's question, it didn't. It's a lie.

[TheUniverse]

31. not shutting up is reason to get arrested?

[sandnsea]

37. That's disruption

Being removed when you disrupt an event is the norm. Getting arrested when you become combative at being removed is also the norm. There were enough of these cops that they didn't have to taser the kid. But the way this is being portrayed is ridiculous. This is what would happen to anybody who did this at a city council meeting, basketball game, or any other public venue. People who don't get this would be in for a rude awakening if they try this at the grocery store tonight. Yes, it's the same thing. Ranting and raving at a store manager would get you in just as much trouble as this kid got in.

[onenote]

45. Kerry, correctly, did not "condemn" the actions of the cops

He essentially said that he regretted that the situation occurred and that he wasn't able to continue a discourse with the guy. But he also noted that he was without any knowledge as to what had transpired between the guy and cops after the guy "barged to the front of the line." That's a little factoid that people seem to forget because its not on the video that most have seen. According to eye witness reports, the guy cut to the front of the line and interrupted someone who was asking a question. He should've been made to go to the back of the line, but instead he was persuaded to let the original questioner finish and then he started in with his speech/questions.

The reason the audience seems so unsympathetic to the guy is that he had acted like a jerk even before he opened his mouth.

[LanternWaste]

24. Consequences = Stalinist regime?

Consequences = Stalinist regime?

Or maybe (just maybe) you're engaging in a little bit of good, old-fashioned melodrama... (which, while not contributing much to valid discourse, does make for good copy.

If everyone who asked Sen. Kerry a question went to jail, you might have had a point, but since everyone didn't go to jail...

(Hello, Leg Store, do you have something for Mr. Universe to stand on...?)

[shenmue]

63. Part of *disturbing the peace and resisting arrest* is going to jail, yes. As it's supposed to be.

They didn't pull him away because they were listening for a certain type of question. Do you think they even care? They're doing their job.

No, free speech does not cover yelling and rambling, causing a disturbance, and pushing and shoving the police. You'd have to be an ass to think that what the spoiled little lunatic did wasn't enough to get him on "Cops."

Did you forget that everyone at the Q&A was supposed to talk for one minute, not rant and rave indefinitely, scream at people and wander off track? What was it, an open-air menal bin?

Where is his obligation to be respectful?

[Occulus]

14. from the perspective of the law, 18 is a man n/t

[H2O Man]

15. * except

for buying alcohol.

[slackmaster]

38. Other noteworthy exceptions in the law

Minimum age to run for the House of Representatives - 25
Minimum age to run for the Senate - 30
Minimum age to run for President - 35

So, when does a person really become a full-fledged adult?

[H2O Man]

39. Very good!

Thanks for reminding me/us of that. Valid point.

[dgibby]

44. adult

when they can be sent to die for their country in an illegal and immoral war!!!

[blm]

57. 21 is old enough to respect other students who were standing in line ahead of you.

.

[MikeDuffy]

5. trumad, could you please tell me what are the essential principles

at the heart of this incident? I'm just trying to get a bit of clarification, I'm not wanting to flame any controversy -- thanks!

[bryant69]

6. Kerry was nearby to a kid being tasered by cops

Many people at DU hate Democrats, particularly elected Democrats.

Let's all rip into John Kerry!

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[MikeDuffy]

17. Just how stupid/ignorant do you think I am?

Would even your children accept your post as a complete and reasoned response to my question? Is there really nothing more remarkable about this incident than your terse summary? I apologize in advance for my incredulous/annoyed tone, but I was asking for a more substantive response and would still welcome it from you (or trumad)...

[TheFriendlyAnarchist]

41. I don't have an issue with Kerry. I'm ripping into the cops.

The kid showed far more restraint than I would have. The second someone hit me,I would have completely freaked out on them. I don't take violence well.

[onenote]

49. The essential principles of the incident:

As I understand them from viewing video and reading eyewitness reports. After he completed his remarks, Kerry was taking questions. There was a limited amount of time and a lot of folks lining up to ask questions. As reported by eyewitnesses, the student at the heart of the incident took a microphone from one side of the room and crossed over and cut in front of the student who was then asking a question, interrupting him. After a bit of confusion, the guy backed off and let the original questioner finish and let Kerry answer. Then the student who had cut in line was allowed to go ahead and ask a question. THe video indicates that he was encouraged to ask a question rather than make a speech and he responded that Kerry had gotten to speak for two hours so he ought to have two minutes. Without letting Kerry answer the question he started out asking regarding vote fraud in the 2004 elections, he shifted into a two more question, one about impeaching chimpy and one about Skull and Bones. At this point, his mic was cut off, although I can't tell from the video who did so. The cops then moved in, trying to get him to leave. He resisted, first verbally, and eventually, physically, at which point he was taken to the ground towards the back of the room. He was warned that he would be tasered, and he can be heard saying that they should just let him up. He then begins screaming that he is being tasered. He was then brought to his feet and taken out of the room in handcuffs. He was still verbally resisting and physically being non-cooperative. After being taken out of the room he constinued to verbally challenge the police, refusing to give his name or ID and stating that the cops were going to kill him. But he didn't physically resist.

When his mike was cut, you can hear Kerry saying that he wants to answer the question. Later, as the guy is on the floor in the back of the room, Kerry can be heard asking everyone calm down.

Assuming that these facts are indeed correct, in my opinion (1) the guy was a jerk who had no business cutting in line to ask his question and who wasn't so much asking questions as trying to make a speech, which may be his right, but there was limited time and a lot of questioners and he showed no courtesy to them; (2) whoever cut off his mike overreacted; (3) the cops overreacted, in that I think once his mike was shut off an attempt should've been made to give him a short additional time to finish and to let Kerry answer. In truth, I doubt that would have happened, because my guess (and its just a guess) is that he would have interrupted Kerry's response and tried to engage Kerry in an argument, essentially filibustering the rest of the questioners. At that point, it would have become necesssary to escort him from the room. Could he have been escorted without having to taser him? I would think so, but as long as he physically resisted, there was as much chance that he would be injured (or injure someone else) wihtout being tasered as there was by tasering him.

Should he have been charged with any criminal offense? While I think what he did constituted disturbing the peace (not inciting a riot as one cop seemed to suggest), and I would be inclined to see charges brought if, for exampele, this had been a freeper egging on Kerry with diruptive questions about his Vietnam War service, overall I think the better exercise of discretion would've been to escort him out of the building and bar him from returning until the event was over. If he wanted to stand outside the building screaming, but without disrupting the proceedings, that would've been fine by me.

[Bluebear]

7. Drama "queen"?

:wtf:

[sandnsea]

10. Drama Queen

teen-aged girl who bursts into tears and theatrics when a strand of hair is a quarter inch out of place.

Everything isn't about you for chrissake.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

23. He Was Beyond A Drama Queen.

[Quantess]

46. Question: is there ever a Drama King?

Just wondering. I thought "Drama Queen" was reserved for females and gay men.
:hide:

[goodgd_yall]

58. That was my understanding

That's why I think Bluebear queried "WTF?" I didn't get it either. But I take it is calling the tasered young man the same as a "girly-man." Still don't get it. He didn't come across that way to me. I'd say a very politically passionate young man.

[Bluebear]

61. your interpretation is exactly right.

As usual. :)

[wuushew]

9. Why is force an appropriate response to verbal actions?

Don't civil courts exist to respond to non-criminal matters?

Maybe cops should get off their asses and close all the unsolved murders on the books.

[Kingshakabobo]

34. "Don't civil courts exist to respond to non-criminal matters?"

Yes, they do.

Here's how it works:

1) You cause a disruption.

2) The owner/manager/security of the facility ask you to leave.

3-A) You leave. If you feel you were unjustly asked to leave you are free to go to court.

OR

3-B) You refuse to leave and get escorted out. If you resist, you get arrested. If you resist violently, you get dog-piled. If you feel your rights were somehow violated, you take the owner/manager/security to court.

He chose 3-B.

[book_worm]

20. If your in college your a "kid" if you can't afford college and your 21

trying to find a job or working at whatever job you can get your considered an "adult" by many people. Here in Madison we have lots of college "kids" and they do the usual college hi-jinks get drunk and cause a little problem here and there and many people laugh and say, "oh, there just kids." But if it's some 19,20, or 21 year old who isn't in college (for whatever reason) who would do that same kind of hijinks a lot of time they would be considered troublemakers.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

22. He's A 21 Year Old Asshole Nutcase.

And the last thing he was was innocent...

[wuushew]

26. Why is being rude grounds for electro-cardiovascular attack?

If you want to limit the behavior of people make them sign contracts or hold such events in private. The only time another person should touch someone else is if they are harming life or property. How is someone hurt by words?

Nothing any politician can say would have more importance than the blatant failure of diplomacy such rough housing illustrates.

[Marrah_G]

29. So during say an Anti-war rally ........

A freeper runs up grabs the mic and goes on a rant. He should be allowed to rant all the war-mongering BS unchecked for as long as he wants, right?

[wuushew]

32. I don't endorse theft of the microphone

if we really believed in the 1st amendment then an equilibrium of civility would arise based solely on the fact that no political viewpoint would be free from disruption.

It would be free speech M.A.D. The current social contract needs to be shredded and built again on more egalitarian grounds.

The mentally ill exercise free speech as well although it could be reasonably argued that their behavior makes it likely that they may be removed from the general population based on legitimate uses of force for other incidents.

I suppose it could be argued that time and political capital cost money so you could certainly attempt to sue people in court for monetary damages.

[Bluebear]

40. How about unplugging the microphone rather than tasering him?

[otohara]

35. You Got The 21 Part Right

wanna call me a name now?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

36. Are You Trying To Say He Wasn't Acting Like An Asshole Nutcase? C'mon Now. You Can't Be Serious.

Have you seen the whole video? He was a total douchebag.

[otohara]

42. Douchebag, Asshole, Drama Queen

He's an honor student too!

I think the douchebags, assholes, were the cops. I'll give you drama queen on Andrew, the 21 year old college student. Colleges all over America are filled with drama kings and queens.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

47. Well, He Was A Douchebag And Asshole Too. Not Sure How That Could Even Be In Dispute.

Again, did you even watch the video? I fail to see how someone could've watched the whole thing and not been able to agree afterwards that regardless of the cops' actions, that he still was an absolute asshole.

[otohara]

50. Jesus, You've Made Your Feelings Known

don't insinuate that I haven't seen the video with MY OWN EYES.

Are we're only supposed demand answers from Bush Co., and not the democrats?
I applaud that kid, got it????

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

51. I Just Had To Ask. Not Sure How Anyone Could Doubt That He Was A Totally Raving Asshole.

I mean, he was just so totally a raving asshole. Almost came off as a lunatic in fact. Real bonkers, that one was.

[brentspeak]

62. Hold on. Rewind.

You said, "Are we're only supposed demand answers from Bush Co., and not the Democrats?"

What do "Democrats" have to do with this nutjob, Andrew Meyer, and his little performance yesterday?

[Warren Stupidity]

55. Why such anger against this person?

Has he injured you?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

64. One Need Not Be Angry To Consider Another To Be An Asshole.

And an asshole, he was.

Get over it.

:rofl:

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

25. My son is almost 21 years old and although brilliant he is by no means what I would

consider a man. He is a student and still a kid, plain and simple. Ask other Moms and Dad here about their 21 year old "men".

[Bonobo]

27. Sorry, Truman!

[goodhue]

28. Quit calling the man a queen.

Ugg!

[cgrindley]

69. Yeah, because he's quite clearly a viscount (nt)

[qdemn7]

30. PUNK is a much better description

That way age really doesn't factor into it.

[otohara]

33. Ummmm....You Obviously Don't Have A 20+ Male Son

trust me, they aren't men yet!

[cali]

53. I do. And yes, he's a man

He may be my kid, but my son who just turned 21 the other day, is indeed a man.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

65. lol! See my post #25! eom

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

43. He acted awful immature for an adult.

[followthemoney]

48. I want a taser. I think everybody should carry one.

It would be so much fun to taser my way to the front of a line.

It would make everyday life so exiting.

The few deaths that occur is a small price to get away from all that intellectual question and answer bullshit.

Then we could all see who is tough and who is wimpy after a few shocks.

[superkia]

52. The system needs to remember innocent until proven guilty.

When they had that many officers there, that tazer should never had been pulled out. They had him on the ground while some officers watched and instead of doing what they did in the past and get his arms behind his back while inflicting as much pain as possible, they decided to zap his ass to teach him a lesson.

You know what folks, is this the behavior you justify? Because the officers don't like when someone is immature and has presumably broke a law, it DOES NOT give them permission to inflict their own type of penalty to the crime. If you don't think that doesn't happen all the time, you must have grown up in a pretty good neighborhood because it is rampant and most of the time its not on video. Problem now is that out government has made us think that manhandling people is a great way to make them fear our PEACE officers?

The student may need to grow up a little but what happened to him was wrong, and people who think that excess is acceptable while enforcing our laws so people will think twice, is insane. We have a justice system that is supposed to punish people and if you are poor and cant afford legal representation it most likely will, sometimes when you are innocent!

Be careful what you think is acceptable, it could be your innocent child that gets in trouble and is abused.

[OzarkDem]

60. The lack of objectivity here is stunning

I'm in shock at how so many people I assume to be Democrats have viciously jumped all over someone who had the courage to voice their opinion and promote progressive ideals.

Hell, even the university officials are saying it was handled badly.

Un fucking real. I guess these are the same people who are offended when someone's child cries in public. Apparently their sense of decorum is more important than someone's rights.

[Warren Stupidity]

54. You seem very involved with this issue.

Why such animosity toward this unfortunate victim of police brutality?

[trumad]

67. Because I don't think it was police brutality...

I think it was a publicity stunt.

[OzarkDem]

56. Why do you hate this kid?

We need to seriously analyze why some on this forum have such hostility towards a kid (and yes he is that, I have one the same age).

Keep in mind, many of us here at DU have kids his age in college right now and would be very upset if something like this happened to them. Do you have children? How old are they? Do you have experience working with kids this age?

You seem to be completely out of touch with how kids this age behave. I'm willing to forgive you for that, but will not tolerate demonizing them. No way.

[shenmue]

59. Thank you!

Only person to talk sense about this stupid shit all day! Bravissimo!

:patriot:

[JVS]

66. Quit calling him a queen, he's a man.

[cgrindley]

68. Nothing anyone can say warrants a tasering

and yes, I don't give a shit if it's the N word or the C word or whatever. Nothing anyone says to anyone warrants a tasering. period. period. fucking period.