Dirty little DU secret: 99% of the "Kerry/taser" flamegasms aren't about Kerry or tasers

[WilliamPitt]

There's a creepy little monster living in the cellar of DU. He's petty, malicious, spiteful, uglier than the back of a warthog's ball-sack...and worst of all, he has a long memory and an enormous ability to hold grudges.

This monster got into our cellar at some point during the winter of 2002-2003...roundabout when the 2004 presidential primaries got going in earnest. The monster, curiously, has multiple personalities; one persona was all out for Dean, another was all out for Kerry, another was all out for Kucinich, another for Clark, another for Edwards...and all of those personas were really really REALLY passionately invested in their candidate.

Yeah, you should hear the monster argue with himself down in that dark basement. Kucinich made a deal with Edwards and Kerry/Gephardt were behind that anti-Dean Osama ad and Dennis is the only moral candidate and Kerry voted for the war and and and and...and you know this tune, I'm sure.

So all but one of the monster's personas kind of had a collective China Syndrome meltdown, because all but one of the candidates got beat at some point or another. The monster didn't forget, though, and remains unbelievably bitter to this very day. And he remembers. And he holds grudges like gravity holds you. Permanently.

The monster got out today, because the Kerry-taser thing was simply too much to resist. I just thought you should know the situation, especially if you're arguing the issue in those other threads. You might think you're arguing about the topic in question, but you're not. You're arguing with the monster that lives in the DU cellar...and he's still pissed, and it doesn't have to make sense, so it doesn't make sense, but there you go.

So, yeah, unless you find enjoyment in wasting your time and energy, leave the monster be. He's a worm with no turning, forever and ever, amen.

(P.S. This is not directed at any one person, because the monster actually lives in the cellar of every DUer's mind and heart...especially if they were around during the winter of '03; I offer this only for the sake of perspective, because IMHO, almost nobody is actually arguing about this taser thing, even if they really think they are...)

[TwilightZone]

1. Hmm....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1836331&mesg_id=1836379

:)

[WilliamPitt]

4. Water is wet, sky is up, we're all going to die someday,

and man, but some people manage to stay salty for amazing amounts of time.

;)

[TwilightZone]

10. Agreed.

It took me a few threads to realize it, then it was a whack-the-head moment. Ah, ha!

[Occulus]

12. We can't even rain on their parade, because salt clumps.

They'll just band together.

/snark

[RangerRK]

42. weren't you the guy who was Kucinich's press secretary

meanwhile actually supporting Kerry?

[WilliamPitt]

47. Yes

and no.

And you made me smile. So cute. :)

[TwilightZone]

48. Gee, you just joined DU five days ago, and you remember that?

Interesting.

If I recall correctly, the items in your query were not concurrent.

[RangerRK]

72. I seem to recall DUers catching Mr Pitt

saying something about going to a private meeting with Kerry and other journalists and something to the effect 'that is how he knew he supported Kerry'....this is during the time he was supposedly supporting Kucinich.

I have been watching Mr Pitt for some time, and he always seems to pop up to do damage control for the democrats.

[WilliamPitt]

77. I'm amused that you've been "watching me"

The Kerry think happened way before I joined the Kucinich campaign (which you'd know if you checked the date on the articles; December '02 about the Kerry thing, Feb '03 in Iowa with Dennis).

And I was definitely behind Kerry when he got started, and was also behind Kucinich. F. Scott Fitzgerald said, "The test of a first rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing ideas in the mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function." I make no claim to first-rate intelligence, but I sure as hell functioned...350,000 miles of speeches to rally people, the campaign, the general election, etc. I did my part, and I stand by my record.

The neat part about having written so much, both here and on truthout, is that everything's out there in public and easily found. Sometimes, I'll come across an asshat who doesn't bother to actually look into the shit he/she thinks he/she knows, but that's getting to be a rare annoyance these days.

So yeah, keep watching me. I'm always working on something...and, um, "DemocraticUnderground" started as a place to support Democrats. "Damage control" is occasionally part of the deal. But you know that, of course. Sure you do.

:hi:

[RangerRK]

87. you are hard not to notice

you come along every time the Dems fuck up and try to defend them, like now for instance.

And then when we need you to speak out, you have an incident with a ravioli can and are out of the loop.

I didn't say you had admitted to supporting Kerry when you 'worked' for Kucinich, and said you 'would walk on water' for him...I think it was an arrangement of sorts...

[WilliamPitt]

90. Wow.

Hobbies, dude.

You're really bad at this one. The variety of "wrong" you just wrote is pretty impressive.

[TwilightZone]

92. You should feel honored.

The guy has apparently been stalking you for four years, but signed up this week just to let you know!

:evilgrin:

[AlCzervik]

94. i'm buying Pitt a taser.

really fucking creepy "I've been watching you". the call is coming from inside the house.

[TwilightZone]

95. No kidding. I think I hear the music from "Jaws" playing in the background.

Just when you thought it was safe to return to DU.

[WilliamPitt]

98. I'm gonna need a bigger boat.

This was not a boating accident.

;)

[The Doctor.]

155. "I have a bad feeling about this"... oh, wait...

wrong movie.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but did someone just accuse you of being a 'Democratic Operative'?

Damn these guys are sharp.

:think:

[AuntPatsy]

105. I agree creepy and fairly obvious.

[pnwmom]

96. So you don't consider yourself a Democrat? Or why the "them"?

[Virginia Dare]

172. Seems a lot of these supposed Kucinich supporters

have low counts and high flames.

[1monster]

177. What makes you think he's a Kucinich supporter? I didn't get that...

And yes, I've come to really admire Kucinich in the last few months. I'd vote for him over any of the other candidates, but I also voted for Kerry in 2004 (primary even though my heart was with Clark who had by then withdrawn and in general election.)

I've no quarrel with Will Pitt. I don't always agree but always respect his opinion.

Why the down on Kucinich supporters?

edit: typo

[Virginia Dare]

178. Notice, I said "supposed"..

go to the "greatest" page, and you'll see what I mean.

[blossomstar]

154. Love, love, love your response. Go Will go.

[TwilightZone]

81. If the alternative is to spend all your time knocking Dems, I'll take damage control, thanks.

[AlCzervik]

83. Thats just creepy.

http://www.i-am-bored.com/bored_link.cfm?link_id=25231

[JuniperLea]

117. I don't think it odd at all that a journalist would visit anyone...

Even someone they didn't support... if that is what he did... but considering how freaky your post is, I'm betting that didn't happen at all.

[Occulus]

6. .

:rofl:

Nice.

[BostonMa]

2. Put in proper perspective as always! Well said, Sir!

:thumbsup:

[AuntPatsy]

3. Cute, interesting way to get a point across, I am honestly ashamed

that I begun a post on the same subject that now has well, a bit too many. I am going to be careful from now on to just put my opinion on one subject on anothers thread unless the issue is important enough to merit it's own.

[TwilightGardener]

5. Ooohhhh. It's like "Moby Dick" in English class--

it's never about what you think it's about.

[Liberalynn]

7. Thanks William Pitt!

Good point, and I don't enjoy wasting my time and energy, so I am stopping now on this whole taser but not really the taser issue. LOL.

[ConfidentialStatus]

8. Put it to rest

Again what was Kerry's answers to his questions?

[WilliamPitt]

16. Is it really that important to you?

If so, there's this google thing you can put to use.

But I'm pretty sure you're not interested in getting your question answered.

You're having too much fun asking the question.

Right? ;)

So, who was your '04 candidate?

[ConfidentialStatus]

46. My candidate was myself

The fun begins when Kerry answers the questions?:-)

[madinmaryland]

9. Different day, different flamefest.

:shrug:

[AtomicKitten]

11. But, but ... ancient history is so much more tasty in the retelling. (nt)

[Evoman]

13. Some of us just hate authoritarian bullshit.

It was never about Kerry to me. It's about asshole cops, and the authoritarian sheep who defend tasering in circumstances such as these.

On edit: I actually sort of liked Kerry (although I'm Canadian, so its not like I vote in primaries).

[TheUniverse]

14. So being against tazers and forced removals for asking questions...

is letting a letting monster eat into you or something.... whatever dude.

[WilliamPitt]

18. "is letting a letting monster eat into you or something"

Exactly.

:P

[liberalnurse]

15. Randi Rhodes

went balistic today and the flames have yet to smolder.

[LSK]

19. is she safe to listen to again?

Or do I keep listening to Nelly Furtado?

[otohara]

51. I Didn't See Students Applauding

Hardball aired it a couple times - Randi going ballistic over students applauding.

[Nictuku]

86. Students laughing and applauding (video)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=iqAVvlyVbag

[liberalnurse]

55. I don't know since

I turned her off. I'm at the Clinic so I found some work to do instead.

[Stuckinthebush]

103. No

At times she is, but then she gets all wild again.

[Divine Discontent]

187. let me answer that question for you....

"I'm like a bird"

[Scout]

146. usually i agree with her, but today she started to piss me off n/t

[malaise]

17. Well said n/t

[kimmerspixelated]

20. Your posts never disappoint!

"flamegasms"- loved it!

[BostonMa]

27. Every word he writes is pure gold. EVERY WORD!

:thumbsup:

[Wheezy]

44. Look, it's a Pittgasm in the flamegasm thread! :)

edited to add: welcome to DU! :hi:

[gateley]

21. K&R -- thanks for the perspective. nt

[AnarchoFreeThinker]

22. Couldn't have anything to do with free speech? Impossible?

Any chance any more than 1% of us can take a stand on an issue, instead of on a politician?
Do you just bring a wiser perspective than 99% of us? (By the p.s., I guess you actually mean 100%.)
What gives?

[WilliamPitt]

24. This would be my opinion, friend.

Speaking of free speech. ;)

P.S. This is about free speech, of course...but this is GD, and if you're not motivated by lingering '04 animus, odds are good that you're arguing with someone who is thusly motivated...and that lumps you into the 99%, even if you are all about the topic.

It's DU. It's GD. It will never stop being 2003.

:)

[AntiFascist]

100. Actually I'm fairly neutral with respect to Kerry and his response to the election...

my participation in the "flamegasms" has to do with anger at the media, and apparently many DU posters, for their desire to brush any discussions of election fraud and impeachment under the rug. Also, I suspect that many of those who are angry with Kerry actually supported him prior to the election.

[AnarchoFreeThinker]

164. But I supported Kerry AND I'm against tasering free speech.

My little monster sure is messed up. Or, possibly, the principle at stake is more important to me. Surely you're not the only poster who believes in a principle or two.

[WilliamPitt]

167. I bloody well hope not.

:toast:

[Vinnie From Indy]

23. LOL! Warthog's ball sack!

Now that's writing!

[Cabcere]

173. Seriously.

That's my new favorite phrase. :rofl:

[alcibiades_mystery]

25. Correction

"even if they think they really really are."

Otherwise, spot on.

Nice to see you back.

[Emit]

33. and "moster' in the first sentence. n/t

[WilliamPitt]

34. Thanks.

:toast:

[SaveOurDemocracy]

26. You'd think Kerry tased the kid, himself.

It was an ugly incident ... the combined fault of the man who arrogantly pushed himself ahead of others waiting to ask questions and apparent overreaction by the campus police. Why has this all been splashed back on Senator Kerry?

[WilliamPitt]

32. See post #1 by TwilightZone

And that's why debating a topic like this is a useless endeavor here in GD. Unfortunate but true.

[SaveOurDemocracy]

53. It seems I was blessed, indeed, to have missed...

the 2004 primary season here on DU.

Great writing, great insight, and great to have you back at DU, Will.

[LanternWaste]

28. Yet, as always one must ask themselves the fundamental question

Yet, as always one must ask themselves the fundamental question-- did Kerry demand to see his receipt before he left the store?

(You're aces, man.)

[FREEWILL56]

180. No, as it seems it was the campus police who

wanted to see the 'receipt' of the student. No 'receipt', off to jail complete with electric chair preview. I see somebody either followed that thread or participated.:woohoo:

[Lone_Star_Dem]

29. "Uglier than the back of a warthog's ball-sack"

:rofl:

That was a new one on me and I'm still smiling.

I thought I recognized the stench in the air too. I missed the primaries, but I saw the monster break out again for a cameo after the election in 04. Your description is hilarious and accurate.

[DemGa]

30. I don't like this "use of force society"

I don't like a society in which it's citizens are beaten and shocked in the streets.

Or maybe I'm really mad about...Dammit Howard Dean!!

[Emit]

31. I've got 25 hidden threads now since mid-morning.

I just can't be a part of that crap.

I agree. Leave the monster be.

p.s. Today is the first time I've ever hidden any threads. I just don't have the patience for it any more. *sigh*

[L. Coyote]

147. Wish there was a way to share hidden lists. I tired of hiding threads when Falwell died.

I hid my first thread when we had the Falwell flood.
But, I could not keep up, so I started this thread:

Yesterday was a GREAT DAY for Falwell TO DIE. Or, the Buffalo Jump to Hell.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x899312

When I get ticked off, I just get into a higher gear. :rofl:

[King Coal]

35. Will, your missing the point.

You see, the cops never tasered Dean, or Kucinich. And yes, they did taser Hillary, but that was after she got pissed about you-know-what.

[WilliamPitt]

36. I am now 27% dumber for having read that.

:P

;)

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

37. I Have To Admit: Seeing Blame Aimed At Kerry For This Is One Of The MOST Stupid Things I've Ever

seen here. Hands down, in the top 10 of false outrages and bullshit perceptions.

I couldn't believe it when I started reading post after post saying similar things about him and bashing him. Putting any blame on Kerry for this is just plain dumb; no if's and's or but's about it. Just. Plain. Dumb.

[WilliamPitt]

39. And deliberate.

Because the '04 primaries never ended.

Duh.

;)

[L. Coyote]

148. Or more insidious. To distract from real issues. Bush just planted a Gonzo clone

as Acting AG. Where is this issue? It is thanks to this kind of distraction that we are not discussing the fact that we just got slipped a new Gonzales just like the old Gonzales.

Mostly, it is human tendencies, but there surely are plenty of clever worms at work on DU too, artfully taking advantage of our psyche.

[Name removed]

49. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tandot]

136. Absolutely how I am feeling about it. Thanks, Operationmindcrime

:hi:

[Jack Bone]

38. "I tell you what, man.....

...I'm gonna get my kicks before the whole shithouse goes up in flames." - Jim Morrison.

I'm just sitting back and watching it all...it's beyond repair...it's too far gone...just have a drink, try a new wine...kick back on the porch and enjoy what you can!!

[spooked]

40. LOL You're too smart....

I feel better now...

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WilliamPitt]

52. The train that's never late.

A wee bit tardy this time, though. Almost fifty replies got posted before you validated yourself by insulting me...which is as sad today as it was every other time. But hey, hope it felt good.

Try to do better next time. I want to be insulted no later than post #15. You can do it. You always do.

;)

[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WilliamPitt]

67. Sadder and sadder.

The fact that you find stuff like that important enough to not only remember, but to repeatedly talk about...man, but you need some hobbies.

I forget you exist the second I don't see your name in front of me. Pretty much everyone else here does the same; they forget you, me, and each other. It's called "Healthy." Try it. Seriously. That kind of grudge-holding is a pretty big billboard on the highway of your life, and it says SEEK HELP.

Or at least seek perspective. I think that's off exit 9.

:rofl:

[DancingBear]

106. How cute

You get to babble and I get deleted.

Ain't democracy grand?

P.S. You must not have any mirrors in your house.

[WilliamPitt]

113. Poor guy.

I'm all weepy and shit.

And what do minors have to do with anything? I mean, perfect 10 on the Random-O-Meter, but...oh hell, this was boring two hours ago.

[DancingBear]

115. Being an icon in a vacuum is so un-hip these days

Dont'cha think?

[The Wielding Truth]

196. You always do it, Will. Fire us up. I'm glad you're back.

I'm one of those who expects Kerry to be perfect. Of course we have a different vantage point. He is said to have had no idea of the tasering. Still I felt that he could have noticed the delusional frantic state of this young man and acknowledged the pressure that the campus police were asserting.

At least Kerry should make sure Meyer has some decent answers to his questions. It cost him to stand up. Would someone with better manners have had the guts it takes to confront some one like Kerry with these questions?

No matter who this would have happened to, I would be feeling the same way. What is sad is that I'm disappointed that it happened to be our John Kerry.

[JuniperLea]

69. Oooooo Cagey! What you got?

Ooo cagey - what you got?
What you got there dummy?
What you got there man?
Ooo cagey - what you got?
What you got there honey?
What is it, a worm?

Dumb clouds are raging
Stupid clouds at my door
Creepy weather coming
Coming 'round my floor
Dumb clouds stay away
Don't come back no more

Ooo cagey - what you got?
Got an awful tummy,
Oh no it's inflamed
Ooo cagey - what you got?
It's so lonely honey
In the state of maine

Dumb clouds are raging

[WilliamPitt]

71. I don't understand that at all...but I love it right down to the ground.

:)

[JuniperLea]

76. Old Blue Oyster Cult tune...

Entitled: Cagey Cretins

I used to argue politics with the lead guitarist, who penned "Don't Fear the Reaper" and voted Bush twice. Long story short, his wife got pissed because I treated him like a pal instead of a Rock God... push came to shove... she hated the politics threads... she started a hate thread about me... the site was shut down.

:rofl:

Goes to show you how much I adore the man... still love his music. And I know that if I ever go to one of their shows, I'll get a great big "Hiya June!" Unless his wife is there!

:silly:




Stupid clouds at my door
Creepy weather coming
Coming 'round my floor
Dumb clouds stay away
Don't come back no more

I'm graduating in one more term
Because I haven't any time to burn
Repeating taste of high-heeled shoe
An eel is waiting under the train

Being chased around by the neighbor's cat
Well it's so lonely in the state of maine

Dumb clouds are ringing
Ringing in my ear
Mother's wombs are crying
Ringing in my fear
Mothers never run
Except when rape is near

Ooo cagey

[mitchum]

101. Well, fuck Buck then...

if he voted for bush even once.
And why should his wife (Sandy?) think you should treat him like a Rock God? It's no longer thirty years ago.

[JuniperLea]

109. Hahaha!

Yeah, that's her!

Buck loved the political talk, and he showed many signs of seeing the light, so I've never given up on him. I'm sure he must realize now how right I was:)

There was a hell of a lot of sycophant ass kissing going on at that site... but I treated him like a regular guy, and I think he really liked that. He had sent me emails saying how much he liked the political discussions (before Sandy got all twisted about it anyway).

He's still a Rock God to me... and he still wails on the axe like a madman! But I kiss no man's ass. Not even my favorites!

I got on a lot better with Ozzy's wife... but that's a whole 'nuther Oprah! :silly:

[JuniperLea]

68. How was your Pittgasm?

:rofl:




Thank you, come again.

[DancingBear]

107. I can't tell

I kept leaving, then coming back again, then leaving...

And every day had 24 business hours in it.

Weird.


:rofl:

[BostonMa]

82. Leave William Pitt alone!

You only wish you could put things half as good as he does PLUS he is a published author. What have you done besides bash?

[MonkeyFunk]

108. He DOES have

a notable ideas/words ratio.

[annabanana]

43. The monster is down there..

doing leg lifts, curls, getting toned and limbered up.

[TwilightZone]

45. A good (new) thread with more info on the entire situation:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1837251&mesg_id=1837251

[yardwork]

50. Heya WillPitt, you're back! Welcome back.

You've probably been back for months and I missed it. Good thread, by the way.

[The Count]

54. This monster starts with "crying in my teacups for stolen elections" and gets

to "fortunately he won't come up here and swear me in as President". The tasering is just the Abu Grahib cherry on top.
But tasering would have been enough for me to get mad in it of itself.
Rationalizing won't change anything. Your guy read my Pet Goat as someone asking him why he conceded was being tortured in front of him. Worst than that - he spouted bad jokes.

[WilliamPitt]

57. Ah yes, "my guy"

Can't wait to vote for him...gotta fix that time machine first, tho.

:P

[The Count]

143. At least you had the chance to - we all voted for him - and we get laughed at

Am I resentful that MSM decided our primaries then (like will now too?) You bet I am.
But the most pain I get from this is hearing the audience cheering the abuse and the Kerry clean-up crew locking threads and putting congratulatory threads on the first page after this sorry incident.Kinda like Bush was praised for 9.11.
Indeed - this incident is his crown achievement - the one he will be remembered by. Be careful for what you wish - you may get it!

[WilliamPitt]

149. "this incident is his crown achievement"

I would be legitimately paralyzed with shock if that were true. Most of America won't pay attention to this for more than a day (why should they bother with an old preside3ntial candidate?), Massachusetts will keep voting for him until the stars burn out, and though it'd seem that he has lost at least a segment of the activist base with this, that base was already gone after Ohio.

Strangely enough, this'll be a blip. His BCCI stuff will be his legacy, as well as his quote at the Vietnam hearing in '71...and, of course, his IWR vote.

And, oh yeah, his...um..."campaign."

:banghead:

[Bonobo]

56. Maybe so, but it doesn't mean there aren't important issues here.

[WilliamPitt]

60. Certainly.

Unfortunately, there are some important issues that are useless to engage in GD. This would be one of them...and all because the word "Kerry" is involved.

Could have been "Clark" (war criminal of Kosovo), or "Kucinich" (Can't win), or "Edwards" (also voted for the war), etc.

Like I said, it doesn't have to make sense.

[Bonobo]

65. OK, gotcha. I give up. But I do care and it isn't for the reasons you stated.

[Gregorian]

58. We need a good cat herder.

The Republicans are more of a team animal. I resent how Kucinich is getting sandbagged. But I am not going to let it get in the way of the next election. Boy do I want to. I want to teach America so badly, I'm almost willing to lose the next election over this. Sometimes the game requires a few odd steps. Ones that don't make sequential sense. We've got to get into power before we can have the power to have the luxurious fights we so long for.

Those bastards have been at this for a long long time. Before we knew what they were up to. Just like chess.

[subsuelo]

59. Then what is it about?

You didn't mention that in your post, why I ask, thanks.

[WilliamPitt]

61. Free speech, police brutality v. knowing when you missed your window to speak.

In GD, however, those are peripheral issues if there's an opportunity to rehash old grievances.

[dailykoff]

64. It's all about Astroturf.

I don't expect Will to admit that, but it sounds like he might suspect it.

[WilliamPitt]

70. It's so omnipresent I barely see it anymore.

Hobbies. People need hobbies.

[dailykoff]

75. Sure but it's still effective.

How much of that monster is on the meter I don't know but I'm guessing well-timed flamegasms like this are not exactly spontaneous.

[Hamlette]

63. On days like these when people discuss stuff that doesn't interest me ad nauseum, I go read blogs

thinking I'm giving up on DU forever but in a few days I come back and we're not fighting about nursing or Kerry anymore and talking about more interesting "stuff".

It's like Ann Nichol Smith in the MSM. Just gotta turn it off for awhile when it appears it won't end. It will. It does. Ignore it. Check out your favorite blogs. Never enough time to read the good ones anyway.

[Parche]

66. John Kerry Rocks

"The forces of violence and the forces of nature compel Man to reach out toward new horizons, where peace and sanity may flourish, where there is room to grow. But before we run, should we not first make certain that we have done all that can be done here to end madness, quiet the disturbers of peace, and make room for those who need so little to grow in?"

:hi:

[BlackVelvet04]

73. I'll show my ignorance and ask

"and all of those personas were really really REALLY passionately invested in their candidate."

Why? Why does one get so passionately invested in someone they don't even know? I don't get it.

Yes, I want the best candidate for the country but damn I don't see enough difference in the candidates to get that passionate. After all, they are ALL politicians.

[WilliamPitt]

79. Go work for a campaign

(I am presuming, perhaps in error, that you've not had the pleasure)

2004 was a brutal year, and the war had just started, and everyone believed their candidate could make things better, and passionate people are always a good thing. This kind of stuff is online-horseshit, for the most part.

[BlackVelvet04]

116. Actually I worked for the Kerry campaign

locally and for Webb as well. I still didn't hate all the other candidates.

[WilliamPitt]

121. You must be a sane person.

:hi:

;)

[BlackVelvet04]

131. That's debatable

but I'm learning to stay mellow when at all possible. I do what I can do and then refuse to worry about what I can't change.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

74. Circular firing squad--away!

Maybe it's just human nature, maybe it's not.

[demodonkey]

78. Yeah Will, I'm Still Pissed, and Disappointed in Kerry. I Was On The Ground in Ohio.

I voted for Kerry and worked hard for him. After he capitulated, I became one of the nine regional coordinators for the Ohio Recount. I'm a Dem but was working with and for David Cobb at the time, who at least had the chutzpah to stand up and call for the Recount.

After what I saw there I will go to my grave knowing Kerry won Ohio.

Despite that he never has acknowledged that there was even a problem with the election. Where were the 15,000 lawyers on the ground in Ohio? I saw one -- ONE -- very green kid, observing for the Dems in ONE county.

So yes Will, I am a little sore especially seeing 2008 heading the same way, with the Dems in Congress unable to get it together and pass anything to protect our election with voter-verified paper ballots.

I will say that Kerry's remarks regarding the Taser incident seem to be appropriate. I would really like to see him come out and answer the kid's questions, but I guess he is off the hook.

[WilliamPitt]

80. Join the club.

Feeling that way isn't enough to make me bang my head against the bricks, however.

I hear you, though. Loud and clear. :hug:

[msongs]

84. the OP is full of his/her self is it not? nt

[BostonMa]

88. Leave William Pitt alone.

Jealous much?

Are you a published author too? Or do you just fling poo?

[WilliamPitt]

89. How dare it offer an opinion!

:)

[JuniperLea]

118. We are not amused

I get this feeling we've met somewhere else...

It puts the lotion in the basket...

[Usrename]

141. I think he's still on a guilt trip over his behavior in '04.

Got some serious self-awareness issues to deal with.

[WilliamPitt]

152. Thanks, Freud.

Have we met?

;)

[Usrename]

156. Freud,,,

:applause:

And to think, they predicted the death of irony.

[mmonk]

85. Back in the cellar beast!

Yeah, despite Randi's rants on the radio because of Kerry's reluctance to talk about the 04 election swipe, it's probably about other matters small and large.

[progressoid]

91. I'm alerting the mods.

You can't say "warthog's ball-sack" can you?

[mloutre]

93. *totally* K&R ..... n/t

[KittyWampus]

97. God, you're right. It's the only thing that explains the stupidity.

[cui bono]

99. I haven't read all the threads, but whatever I think on the matter

has nothing to do with '04. It has to do with the here and the now.

[Desertrose]

102. Nope. Its about those who do not want to face what this country is becoming.

Its about those who realize how fast we are losing our freedoms and turning into a place where freedom of speech is just a memory of some untasered minds.

"Free speech zones"...need I say more?

We are not arguing tasers...nor are we arguing the past elections ...we are - some of us anyway- aware of how fast this country is turning into a fear state...where police can subdue anyone they want by force. Who is next? Makes ya wonder.......

Monster in the cellar? This monster has been on the loose for awhile and people need to take the rose colored glasses off and take a good look at the reality of what America has become.

We invade other countries with the flimsiest of excuses...we torture their citizens. You think its not going to happen here?? Think again...it already is....and some here say its ok cause the guy was obnoxious! Last I heard that wasn't exactly an excuse to arrest & taser a handcuffed person.

You think the dems are going to "save us"?? Better look at the recent record of how they've gone along with wars and everything else the neo-cons want.

"Monster in the cellar"...just another bullshit distraction. Sorry Will, I think you've missed the point- whether intentionally or not :shrug:

DR

[rateyes]

176. Good response.

:hi:

[Desertrose]

197. Thanks, rateyes. n/t

[hfojvt]

104. I am not sure if that computes

At least not if you say 'the monster' is bad feelings left from primary fights. I registered after the election of 2004 and was the 57,743rd person here. There have been 50,568 registrations since. I cannot remember the details, but I am pretty sure that the primary was over by June 2004 at the latest. So at least 60% of potential DUers registered after DUs infamous 'primary wars'.

So do a majority of DUers still have bitter feelings from the primary even though they were not part of DU during the primary process? Even after we all got behind Kerry after June of 2004? I think it is more likely that DU has the ability to goto Defcon 5 over almost any incident or issue.

[lateo]

111. William is correct.

The 2004 primaries caused me to leave DU for a long time. As a matter of fact...I just came back. It was terrible a terrible time... people were being accused of being plants from the various campaigns and what not. And oddly what caused me to leave is bringing me back...

[blues90]

110. The monster seems to be the loss of civil rights

All I saw was the choppy video . All I heard was the fellow asking normal questions . It took four cops to get this fellow out even though he said he would leave on his own . I must have missed something because I cannot see how he broke any laws or why the cops decided to arrest him in the first place or why Kerry did not shout out for them to stop , Kerry wanted to answer the questions .

[trumad]

112. Pats still suck!

[tritsofme]

114. I thought Pitt left for good and asked Skinner to ban him...

I guess we couldn't be so lucky...

[JuniperLea]

119. You should speak for yourself...

And learn to use the ignore button if you don't like someone.

[tritsofme]

124. I'm just saying its a shame

The guy asked very nicely to be banned and his request apparently was not granted.

[JuniperLea]

127. You listened to rumors I guess...

I never heard that, nor did I see WP write that. I could be mistaken. Still, no need for the snark. A lot of us are happy to see the man back, and it's pure unadulterated flame bait to post what you posted. Just saying.

[tritsofme]

129. 3rd to last paragraph

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1517286

[JuniperLea]

200. That's fine... but the snark was still screwed...

"I guess we couldn't be so lucky..." This is uncalled for and seriously lame.

[WilliamPitt]

150. No, I did.

Four times. Finally, I told them I was going to go to some deep-buried subforum and spam myself into a cookie. I apologized for even saying that, and was hoping that would let them know I was serious.

They suspended me for a week instead. And then matcom basically ordered me to come back. :)

But I do owe the Admins a thank you for ignoring me. Big time.

[JuniperLea]

199. That's hilarious!

Still, that snark was screwed. You can't please everyone, but don't mess with those of us who DO appreciate your writing! We're a feisty lot!

I'm glad they ignored you too. You Irish or something? I only say that because your temper reminds me of my family:)

[Synnical]

120. Nicely put

Will, I don't normally recommend your posts, because I find you a bit wordy, but this one is terrific.

K&R - and well-come back.

And it sucks that I finally have a couple of hours to read DU and I have to put so many threads on ignore!

-Cindy in Fort Lauderdale

[LittleClarkie]

122. Is the monster going to have company after this next round of primaries

I would guess it would. Then it won't have to bitch at just itself anymore.

What might we do to slay these monsters, good sir?

[WilliamPitt]

123. Endure.

He hates that.

:)

[Generator]

125. Yes but especially Kerry

Kerry will always be a flame war. Because of Ohio. Because he somehow always puts his foot in it and never comes out the better. Because he should be president. Because some will never forgive him for the IWR. Because many will never forgive him for not contesting the election.
For not being president. For stealing it from Dean? Sure. (WHY does Gore get a pass...that I do NOT understand-he didn't contest Florida honestly -something my husband has always thought and made me consider- and that's why we have the eight year nightmare-the Gore worship is as strong as the Kerry hatred) SEE I can go back before your precious 2004 primary for bitterness. It's an open well.

It's so much deeper than the primaries-if Kerry was president how many less dead? Yes, that's what I think of. I'm sure I'm not the only one. I hear- what could he have done? I don't know but I know that it's never leaving my mind.

And I don't even want to go there. It's still an open wound. And it's never resolved-I never resolve it-from big Kerry supporter here who wasn't around during the primaries that year to one who has been here every second since. It's not simple.

[MagickMuffin]

126. couldn't resist letting the Scary Monsters, Super Creeps Outta the Closet

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Is0_mNdWHk

DAVID BOWIE "Scary Monsters (And Super Creeps)"

She had an horror of rooms
she was tired
you can't hide beat
When I looked in her eyes they were blue but nobody home

She could've been a killer
if she didn't walk the way she do,
and she do
She opened strange doors
that we'd never close again

She began to wail jealousies scream
Waiting at the light know what I mean


Scary monsters, super creeps
Keep me running, running scared

She asked me to stay
and I stole her room
She asked for my love
and I gave her a dangerous mind
Now she's stupid in the street
and she can't socialise
Well I love the little girl
and I'll love her till the day she dies

She wails
Jimmy's guitar sound
jealousies scream
Waiting at the light know what I mean

[bleever]

128. Deleted sub-thread

(Thought I'd just skip ahead.)

:hi: Will.

[Bluebear]

139. :)

[Lydia Leftcoast]

130. Oh, come off it, Will, this isn't about Kerry and you know it

Have you never seen cops overreacting or looking for excuses to arrest people?

(I was present at the demonstration a few years ago in Portland where protesters who were literally just standing there were pepper sprayed by cops in Darth Vader outfits and shot at with rubber bullets while dispersing. I was also once stopped by a traffic cop who made up a law on the spot to hassle me with.)

The young man's style was over the top, but being over the top is not illegal, and last time I looked, the Constitution still allowed free speech, ESPECIALLY obnoxious speech, which is the kind that needs protection most.

[JVS]

133. right on

[WilliamPitt]

153. The issue itself isn't about monsters or '04 baloney, of course.

Unless I really blew it, I'm pretty sure I never said anything of the sort, and said the same things about the importance as you, up-thread from here.

My point was that discussing the issue *here* is an entirely different kettle of fish. It actually detracts from the importance of the issue when we have our mega-flashback flamewars and totally lose the point. You know that happened tonight, I'm mortally sure. I saw a whole shitload of it, and all from a lot of names I distinctly remember from '03 collisions just like this.

I would never suggest you personally were arguing anything other than the main point...but I'd bet my shoes that, more than once tonight, you went back and forth with someone who was doing the exact stuff I described in the OP. That poisons the well for you, too. It is what it is.

The issue is serious. The treatment it gets in GD, generally, is not.

Cheers.

[Divine Discontent]

188. I think a good way to sum this up is

to say the OP has a good point about some just h8n on JK because of their allegiance in 04 and their frustrations over how their candidates got booted out, but also, the cops did overreact, especially with the tazering that occurred.

This really didn't have much to do with Kerry at all, he did what I expected him to do and that was sufficient, because he did not know fully (I assume), what the situation with the young man was, and tried to get the man heard and answered. What else could he rationally do? :shrug:

[KG]

132. well, i say thank goodness DU has WillPitt to explain DU to DUers

because, obviously, so many just. don't. get. it. :eyes:

[BostonMa]

134. STOP THIS WILL PITT BASHING!! NOW!!

Do you know what credability this \"place\" would have if it wasn\'t for him? A PUBLISHED AUTHOR???? Or do YOU have the same credentials?

Or do you just fling poo?

Meh.

[KG]

138. !

:rofl:

[BostonMa]

158. /

:eyes:

[Zodiak]

160. I'm published, too

But I don't spend my time on DU bragging about it (not that I am accusing WP of it, either). I would rather be judged by the merit of my words alone, as would anyone who has something to say.

Nobody here is any more important than another, unless they are a mod or Skinner.

[Marr]

168. I can't tell if you people are spoofing the "leave Britney alone" guy, or

if you're real groupies. I guess it doesn't matter. Both are hilarious.

[Virginia Dare]

175. I don't think I've ever seen so much psyops in one DU thread...n/t

[The Count]

145. yeah, now that Will 'splained to me, I know what upset me. Thank you Will!

[tandot]

135. For the first time since I've been on DU, I put one DUer on ignore

Boy, that issue sure brings out the worst in people.

And you are right, responding is wasting time and energy. Thanks for bringing some sanity to this issue.

[WildEyedLiberal]

137. TRUTH.

:thumbsup:

[AnotherMother4Peace]

140. 3 soldiers killed in Iraq today - DU & MSM have been all over taser story - bunch of crap

Our soldiers' deaths are barely mentioned. But I know all about OJ & this stupid ass story. Is the Iraq war and the orphans, widows, maimed citizens and soldiers really a nothing story. Are these crap stories really more important? or just diversions? even here on DU. Where's our focus?

[The Count]

144. Iraq? The war Kerry voted for? You can't stray to far with the relevance defense

The war was mentioned by the kid who got tasered in front of an impotent Kerry too - as reason for impeachment, BTW.

[L. Coyote]

142. Hey DUers. You could be a troll and not know it! Are you a Blemming too?

Some of the following linked thread is tongue-in-cheek fun and intended to be light humor,
and maybe even entertaining to word smiths. But, it has a serious side too.

Towards a Taxonomy of Political Trolls OR Filling a Neologism Vacuum.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1835214

Does DU has a purpose, as in do we have a purpose as a collective conscience, and if so, what is it? It certainly isn't to go over a cliff into a sea of irrelevancies. Du has those moments and this is one of them, as was Falwell's fall. So, if you are part of the herd heading for the cliff are you a blemming troll. To find out, you have to follow the link.

I have to commend the point in another post. Today, people died in Iraq! And, what did we do?

[EFerrari]

151. You're right, Will, except it's not DU, it's just people.

But don't tell anybody.

[BostonMa]

157. .

:thumbsup:

[Ian David]

159. The day the monster arrived in the basement, Kerry's staffers threatened me with The Capitol Police

I called his office, and I was so angry, so abusive, so profane, the staffer on the other end of the phone warned me he might have to transfer me to the Capitol Police.

"Sir, you are calling the office of a United States Senator! Show some respect!"

"No, I am NOT calling the office of a United States Senator! I am calling the office of a TRAITOR who has ABDICATED his office as a United States Senator!"

That was then.

This is now.

After watching the version of the Florida incident that was posted on LiveLeak, I got a WHOLE DIFFERENT PICTURE (and AUDIO!) than what most people saw on CNN.

See: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1833205&mesg_id=1833205

If you just watch the CNN version, I don't blame you for being mad at Kerry.

But if you watch the LiveLeak version, you'd have to be a fool to say that Kerry was to blame for the tasering.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1833205&mesg_id=1833205

Since 2004, I went from being a Deaniac, to being a Kerry Supporter, to accusing Kerry of Treason, to finally accepting him as a reasonably effective Senator and almost forgiving him for his role in letting the monster into the basement.

And now, today, I am saying that John Kerry did all that he possibly could have, short of leaping off the stage and interfering with police officers, when it comes to the tasering incident.

[Zodiak]

161. I agree....this has nothing to do with Kerry to me

I didn't like him, then I liked him, then I didn't like him, and now I think he is one of the best senators we have.

He was there, but any other politicians could have been there, as well. He was just the unlucky one.

What this is about to me is cops escalating force to physical manhandling without probable cause and using a potentially deadly weapon that produces unbelievable pain to ensure "compliance".

[Ian David]

162. Agreed (mostly)

I am only 95.5% convinced that the cops acted improperly.

That's enough to make me extremely concerned by the cop's behavior.

I need another 0.5% more info to make me certain enough to be outraged.

I'm also about 45% convinced that the kid intentionally triggered the event, resisted arrest, and MIGHT have even pretended he was tasered, and is partially responsible. I need another 5% more info on that to consider myself "suspicious." Another 30% to make me "fairly certain."

However, I am 98.5% certain that Kerry did all he possibly could have to defuse the situation.

[Zodiak]

171. Wow...you think in terms of probability

Which is the correct way to think, actually.

I admit I am more knee-jerk about these kinds of things due to personal experiences.

Yoiu are 100% correct, though...certainty is something we do not have.

[Ian David]

192. It's been proved here on DU that I am wrong 1/12th of the time. n/t

[Tigermoose]

163. Nice STRAWMAN you've got built there.

This is the only flame I'll bother to light.

[kenfrequed]

165. I am angry

I am mainly angry at the cops. What they did was over the line. Significantly over the line.

I am angry at Kerry. He should have stood up for the kid, no matter how comabative and aggressive he was. I would have been so proud of him had he shouted at the police to let the kid go. Imagine what that would have looked like for a moment.

I am Very angry at Tucker Carlson. A person who has had nothing but contempt for protesters and the tactics of civil disobediance suddenly the cunning to play at righteous indignation.

[Gregorian]

166. If only.

I totally agree. But I've been waiting for thirty years. No one is speaking up. That's why I fell in love with Democratic Underground. People are speaking up here.

[softwarevotingtrail]

169. I beg to differ ....the video and Kerry's response just pissed me off

This whole episode pissed me off vicerally not because I was invested in any particular candidate in 2004, but because Meyers' questions hit home for me ("Why didn't you fight a stolen election, why don't you fight for the impeachment of George Bush?"), and Kerry's response seemed painfully similar to his responses to the stolen election of 2004 and to the Iraq War - vapid, too little, too late.

[MetalCanuck]

170. I just mentioned I supported Kucinich (I do) because...

I did not want to get censored for not supporting Kerry. I
think Kerry knew what was happening and sat there and did
nothing.

[Marr]

174. I do think there's an element of Kerry resentment at play here.

But it's only exacerbating something that's already inherent at DU: distrust of authority. That's not a bad thing, though on this issue I think it's wandered into hysterical ranting.

For the record, I'm not a Kerry fan and never was.

[Seabiscuit]

179. So tell us, how is this not actually arguing about this taser thing:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1834608&mesg_id=1836109

??

But, alas, Mr. Pitt knows better - I just deluded myself into thinking I was arguing about tasers, when I was in reality letting some "monster" out of my basement and arguing about Kerry, even though I didn't think I was and even though I said nothing about him.

Oh, no. Did I just imply that we're witnessing another Pitt strawman?

excuuuuse me... never mind.

I should know better by now that I should bow down and grovel before DU's very own self-proclaimed Delphic Oracle.

Just a moment now... where is that "recommend" button???

::gack::

[percussivemadness]

181. Perhaps if Kerry

1) Had stood up against the Swiftboaters

2) Had stood up against Bush and not conceded defeat in 2004

3) Had pursued investigations into provable election fraud allegations that cost Dems the presidency, sentencing the American people to 4 more years of the Bush Junta

Then this monster would have died in 2004.The anger that is being unleashed against Kerry is because he let down of millions of people who put their trust and faith in him in 2004.

Peace

[MetalCanuck]

191. You pointed out why I do not support Kerry, thank you.

Kerry is indirectly responsible for the thousands of Deaths
that COULD have been ended if he at least fought Bush in 2004.

[Carni]

182. It's just frickin ugly in here today

I agree Will Pitt!

What a waste of time and energy this whole tasering mellodrama is here today at DU.

If we collectively spent even half the time we do on constructive things, instead of ripping other basically like minded people apart...we'd all be a whole lot better off!

I'm going back to *the googles* until people's brains return to their bodies!

UG! :(

[Emit]

183. I just zapped another 25 threads today. On edit,

is there a limit to how many threads one can hide?

[redqueen]

184. No shit...

the taser thing is pretty much black and white if that one video is to be believed.

"if you don't let go of me i'm going to taser you"... then he tasers the guy.

The controversy is where?

[Bryan Sacks]

185. Here's the crux of it, Bill

Afer all of the smoke clears and the bluster dies down, there is a line visible. On one side of it are the authoritarians who tasered an obnoxious kid who did nothing illegal, the people who cheered it and those that seek to defend it in some fashion. That includes Senator Kerry, who allowed armed security guards to drag a young man away for being rude and excitable without using his authority to step in as he could and stop it.

On the other side are those who understand that this incident was flat wrong and who do the only decent thing, which is denounce it.

You are on the first side of the line, and your analysis of DU dynamics does not change that. Apologism comes in many forms, some of them highly articulate and even compelling - to those who can't see the line.

[Chovexani]

186. Will stop using that Earth logic

:P

[Whisp]

189. I think you are way off on that 99% number - make a poll

For me it's all about the tasering and police misuse of power and nothing else.

[BostonMa]

193. Um, I think Will Pitt has a LITTLE more knowledge on this then you, k?

He is a PUBLISHED author and also has worked on official campaigns, so I think he has \"street cred\".

Think about it.

[rateyes]

194. I'm a published author, and have worked on campaigns

so, I guess I have "street cred," too. I disagree with Will Pitt on this one.

Think about it.

[iamthebandfanman]

190. Vote Dean!

;)

[Generic Other]

195. Me so horny I need a flamegasm Mr. Pitt

I feel so frustrated...dare i say frigid? Come on! Why such cool responses to Will's thread? What happened to the days of multiple flamegasms?
Enough of this silly foreplay!!

Bring on the melted cheese...make me hot again.

Love ya Will!!

:loveya:

[dailykoff]

198. That creepy little monster is all over the net

just like it's been all over the press for the last fifty years. The best part is we're paying for it, probably several times over now that the CIA has been "privatized."