The Taser episode isn't noteworthy or new.

[NutmegYankee]

I was at a Minor Democratic Convention in Virginia where Lt Governor (at the time) Tim Kaine was speaking and taking questions when a Lyndon Larouche supporter got up to ask him a question. The Larouche supporter went on a rant for 15 minutes, with many in the convention like myself, thinking, just ask the d*mned question. Finally, Kaine spoke up and told the man he needed to respect the others waiting in line for the Mic and ask his question. The man verbally abused the Lt Governor and continued ranting. He was promptly grabbed by two Virginia State Troopers, no doubt working security for Kaine, and was removed from the Mic. The man struggled and fought the troopers making a huge ruckus and screaming the entire time he was carried out. I recall that he finally had to get a face full of mace to be subdued and carried out the door. Those of us sitting at the tables on the convention floor were glad that the man had been taken away. He was disrupting the event by using a question to go on an extremist rant, disrespecting the speakers, and delaying the chance for others to ask questions. Kaine apologized for the disruption, and took the next speaker.

None of us in the audience felt that this event was some horrible abuse by the cops, we just knew that a Larouche supporter had tried to disrupt the convention, and got dealt with in a just manner. There are only two differences from this event and the one at Kerry's event, the disrupter was tasered rather than maced, and he was taped.

And for the record, Virginia law requires you to obey the police instructions and not resist, without any distinction as to whether they are legal or not. Resisting arrest will get you tasered or maced because the cops also have the right to not be injured as well by violent resistance.

Needless to say, add me to the ranks of DU that think the man in the video got what was deserved.

[EV_Ares]

1. Yes, on top of that, how come they including Tweety did not get

concerned over all of the people who got ejected for wearing anti-Bush T-shirts. Does anyone remember Tweety or others being concerned. That is where all of this started, Rove and Bush. Which according to a lady on Tweety's show, Hillary is doing as well. She got kicked out of a Hillary campaign stop for her t-shirt which Hillary's people told her, only what we authorize is what kind of sign or t-shirt you can have at the rally.

The kid had a good question and Kerry even said to the police, "let me answer his question". I would like to know why Kerry conceeded so quickly and didn't fight.

The cops probably went overboard with the tasering, the kid had a "Tweety" mouth, could tell he liked to hear himself talk but didn't deserve everything the cops threw at him.

[NutmegYankee]

19. The point of my post is that resisting arrest will get you hurt.

He didn't have to make a huge scene and fight the police officers. Now he has a criminal charge against him and looks worse in many people's eyes.

[EV_Ares]

25. No, he did not have to make a huge scene, no he did not have to

resist. I amy disagree with you on who looks worse. I think there is more of a consensus that the officers over reached in subduing him. They as well, did not have to taser him. They could easily have subdued him without doing that.

So, if your point is he deserved the tasering. Have to disagree.

[NutmegYankee]

28. And it is fine to disagree. I don't want a flame thread.

I just wanted to remind people that the police also have a right to not be injured by a violent man who will not calm down. His fighting raised the risk of injury to the police and himself, since physical means of subduing a violent resisting man can cause injury to the man as well.

I do stand by my statement that the man chose to be tasered through his willful actions. I was wrong to use the word deserved, and I'll pay for that for the rest of this thread and later.

It is a shame that at least one DUer just ignored me without discussion.

[EV_Ares]

29. You posed a good question; appreciate the thread and understand

where you are coming from. I agree that he put himself in a position to be tasered, still, feel he could have been subdued another way. However, I was not there and the police have a very difficult situation in these times, so no way of knowing what prompted them to make that decision.

Yeah, we all pay for some of our posts here don't we.

So in the finale, I think you and I agree and disagree, both have some points. Meant to say I just don't want our freedom of speech to get damaged any more than it is.

Have a good day.

[Bluebear]

2. "add me to the ranks of DU that think the man in the video got what was deserved"

Wow.

[JVS]

5. I've got a better rank to add him to: the ignore list

[NutmegYankee]

8. Thanks for being willing to listen to another position.

I on the other hand, can take criticism and will not ignore you.

[NutmegYankee]

7. You fight the police, you're going to get sudued hard.

He was resisting arrest. There is a difference between passive resistance and aggressive resistance. If you are just lying on the ground to resist arrest, and get tasered, anyone can see that it is wrong, but actively fighting the cops on the other hand is a valid use of the taser.

Sorry to put it blunt, but this young man could have just allowed himself to be taken out and probably would not have been charged. Perhaps the police were wrong to remove him, but fighting them was the wrong move. If he had not fought them, he could have made the case that his removal was wrongful, and people would have stood behind him. He blew that .

[Bluebear]

9. How many police were there? They could not subdue him?

Sorry, I don't support the use of tasers on a college campus in this situation.

[NutmegYankee]

15. It is obvious in the video that he was not going to comply.

Why do several cops have to risk injury to restrain this man? If he did not want to get tasered, all he had to do was comply and not fight the police. There is a civil manner to address this. He could have been removed or arrested peacefully and fought this out in the courts. He chose violence instead.
This authoritarian charge on this board, not from you, but in general, is utter bullshit. Every state I have lived in has had it against the law to violently resist arrest.

[WilliamPitt]

3. "got what was deserved" may be a stretch...

...but the attempts to lay this on Kerry are hilariously deranged.

I can't really agree with the idea that someone "deserves" to be tasered at a political event, unless they have a rifle or a stick of dynamite or something. There were probably enough cops there to control the guy without resorting to tactical voltage.

[NutmegYankee]

10. I can see your point.

My problem is that the taser invokes an emotional response, and people overlook that the man was resisting arrest. The taser is a harsh tool, too often used as a torture device nowadays, but this event isn't the one people should rally behind.

[Lethe]

4. going on a rant for 15 minutes and asking 3 questions is a lot different

he took about a minute to ask 3 questions and then stopped talking, then the cops grabbed him with no warning

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

6. I Just Saw The Whole Video. That Kid Was Some Nutcase Asshole, For Sure.

I had no idea how aggressive and provocative he was actually being. He was completely out of control and out of his mind, and though I may not agree with their choice I can most certainly still understand to some degree why the cops did what they did, after he was resisting as aggressively as he had been. He was a total aggressive asshole and I have no sympathy for him. You can't disrupt in the ways he did and in the manner and tone he did, and then resist violently while screaming profanities as he was, then after it went on for god knows how long and after repeated warnings, the cops finally take the desperate act of tasering him to get him to finally fucking comply, and then cry all poor poor me about it.

He wasn't just resisting, he was resisting violently and aggressively. Tasering was probably a bit much, but there's only so much sympathy I can have for that asshole.

[Evoman]

11. Can I suggest a book to you?

It's a free e-book that you may (or may not) like. I think it would be useful for you to read.

http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/

[Cetacea]

14. LOL. . eom

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

17. .

[Cetacea]

20. Sorry! I posted in the wrong spot. It was supposed to be

in response to the victim as a "nutcase".
LOL

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

22. It Was In Your Honor LOL

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

16. Self Delete (Maybe I Misread You)

[Evoman]

21. Uh...okay.

Calm down, big fella...I wouldn't want to have to taser you.


And even if your not an authoritarian, it's still a good book and worth a read.

[jeff30997]

24. Lol!

[Evoman]

23. You completely misread me, since I am neither monumentally stupid or

specifically calling you an authoritarian. I'm simply saying that events such as this are warning signals of something much larger, and the book I recommended points that out. It doesn't matter how big an asshole you thought he was, there is an issue here that is much more important.

[NutmegYankee]

26. I don't see this as authoritarian.

Perhaps the cops were wrong to remove him from the mike. Perhaps they overreacted and wrongly felt he was a threat. None of that justified the man to violently resist the police. There was a civil manner to address this, and this man did not choose that path. The man had a duty to obey the laws of a democratic state, laws that did not violate any fundamental rights of his, and he chose violence instead. The man acted criminally, and it is not authoritarian for the police to do their job.

[EV_Ares]

27. You are 100% correct. eom.

[Marrah_G]

12. Applause!

[Missy M]

13. What the guy got is exactly what he wanted.....

he will be on CNN tonight and have his 15 minutes of fame.

[NutmegYankee]

18. Indeed.

He could have been civil and just been removed and then redressed himself in the courts, but instead chose to fight the police for video fame.

It was a bad move legally. But it sure does get some people passionate.