Tasers kill. I can't believe some of the responses here.

[Cetacea]

Nor the audience that clapped as the arrest began. So...junior high school.

Behavior modification. Tasers for now, real electro shock therapy if you really get out of line.

[goforit]

1. Allison, on Countdown interviewing Maddow was appalling!!! Laughing at the

tasering!!!! Can you believe this???
They sound more and more like Faux News!!!

[Cetacea]

2. Who was laughing?

I missed it.

[partylessinOhio]

7. She's a ditz. Send her back to MTV!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

3. Sometimes they kill.

Sometimes deranged lunatics kill.

[Cetacea]

6. And some justified the Kent State massacre too. eom

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

9. Sure, some did.

And others make absurd comparisons between this and Kent State.

[Cetacea]

13. Ok.

He didn't DIE from the Taser that was violently used on him three times. Sorry.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

58. Just goes to show how safe Tasers usually are.

[subsuelo]

4. I can't believe the justifications either

this had everything to do with silencing a point of view that public officials do not want people to know about

[MonkeyFunk]

8. It had nothing to do with the content

of his question.

[subsuelo]

12. Yes it did

If he asked Kerry what his favorite color was this never would have happened.

[MonkeyFunk]

15. don't be silly

If he had asked his question and shut up and let Kerry answer, as Kerry had already agreed to do, nothing would've happened.

The police did not stop him when he raised his question.

It was only after he refused to stop disrupting the forum that they stepped in.

Kerry has been asked the question before and answered it. The content of the question had absolutely nothing to do with it. Why would campus police in Florida even CARE what the content of the question was?

[Cetacea]

18. So it's still policing a rude guest. eom.

[subsuelo]

20. oh so it's because he didn't shut up after question #1

that justifies violence?

Asking more than one question is not "disruption"

[MonkeyFunk]

23. I'm not justifying anything...

I'm disputing the absurd notion that the content of the question caused the response. That's laughably and demonstrably untrue.

[subsuelo]

28. of course was the questions that caused the response

let me take a wild guess at something...

I'll guess that you disliked his line of questioning?

[MonkeyFunk]

32. Nope

I have no objection to his question. Neither did Kerry.

That's why the idea that it was the content of the question, and not the disruptive behavior of the questioner, that caused the police to intervene.

[subsuelo]

44. oh, I see

So you agree that Kerry should be grilled on why he conceded an election that he actually won?

[MonkeyFunk]

45. Grilled?

i think if the answer to that question still eludes people, they should ask him again and allow him to answer it again.

[subsuelo]

50. Here's the question for me

Question is, at what point does someone's questioning shift to disruption that warrants police intervention?

Certainly not this case.

Disruption might be a possibility if someone is carrying on shouting and lecturing for a very long time -- the length being a subjective matter -- however, Andrew spoke for maybe all of a minute, which should hardly be considered lengthy by anyone's standards. So he had a point to make, so what, that certainly doesn't warrant an arrest.

Disruption might also include attempting to break up the meeting somehow. Andrew certainly wasn't making an attempt to break things up.

And finally, not allowing Kerry to answer can't be taken into account here, because Kerry himself allows Andrew to continue (you can hear Kerry say "that's alright"), acknowledging that Andrew had more to say, and allowed him to wait until he was finished.

It was only when Andrew was finished that the police then grabbed him to lead him away -- by force. That was completely lacking in any grounds whatsoever. Andrew made his points and asked more than one question, which Kerry seemed to accept. I didn't see Kerry having any problem at all with Andrew's questioning and speechmaking. Therefore, what was the disruption?

The only disruption was caused by the police. THEY disrupted things by forcefully taking him away.

[MonkeyFunk]

51. Your description doesn't match

the accounts of people who were there. He spoke for more than a minute, he charged the mic out of turn, he gave a speech that included questions, but wouldn't stop for an answer, he was asked three times to stop, and refused.

He deliberately tried to disrupt the forum, and he succeeded. That doesn't make him any sort of hero in my book.

[subsuelo]

52. I'll address each of your claims in turn

1) Speaking for more than a minute is not a disruption. btw I just timed it; he spoke for just under a minute and a half. The length of time he spoke should not be considered at all disruptive.

2) If he "charged the mic" out of turn as is the claim, how did police allow that to happen in the first place? They were standing right there, why didn't they stop him there? I see no evidence to support that claim.

3) "he gave a speech that included questions, but wouldn't stop for an answer" -- you consider that grounds for police intervention by force? Is that really the kind of democracy you wish to have? Let the kid make his points and move on, nobody was getting hurt by asking more than one question without an immediate answer in between. Besides, as I mentioned above, Kerry appears to have been perfectly fine and allowed him to continue - so why did the police have such a problem with it?


Andrews had no intent of "disrupting" - he had the intent of asking some tough questions to a politician, something we should all be doing more of, if you ask me.

[MonkeyFunk]

57. we just disagree

from his history and his actions that day, he had every intention of disrupting the event.

[parasim]

30. No, I don't think so. Watch the video.

The cops started in on him right after he asked the skull and bones question. He asked the question, they cut his mic, he threw his hands in the air because his mic was cut and then the cops swooped in on him. He was not "disrupting the forum" when the cops moved in on him. Not in the video I watched.


on edit: swooped not sooped

[MonkeyFunk]

34. And what had happened

in the minutes leading up to that?

Do you believe the florida Campus police are owned and operated by Skull & bones?

[parasim]

43. I don't know what happened prior. It's not on the video.

And I sincerely would like to know, because that would make a big difference.

None-the-less, no, I'm not saying that I believe they are owned/operated by S&B... But, what do I know? I'm saying what I saw on that video. He asked that question and they reacted. Do I think they have some secret connection to s&b, no, I have no clue if they do. Were they instructed to cut anybody's mic if they mention s&b? I have no idea. All I was saying is that they swooped in just as he asked that question.

It's just that that particular question, whenever asked, is not answered. Non answers of this question perpetuate conspiracy theories so it would be nice, if for once, these people with their childish secrets would answer questions about them.

Now, somebody in this thread or a related one mentioned that Kerry did answer this question at length on PBS. I'd love to see a clip of that, because an honest answer would mean a lot.

[MonkeyFunk]

46. No, it's not on the video

but the firsthand accounts state that he ranted for about 2 minutes, asking multiple questions and not allowing Kerry to answer. He was asked to stop, and after being asked three times to let Kerry answer, his mic was cut off, at which point he kept screaming and ranting.

Then the police intervened.

[parasim]

49. yeah, well, i need to see video of it...

..."first-hand-accounts" don't mean a helluva lot to me these days... yeah, i'm cynical... fuck it... i blame bush...

whatever...

[OzarkDem]

22. It absolutely did

they jumped when he started talking about those subjects we're "not supposed to talk about" stolen elections and impeachment.

What a shame so many DU'ers agree with them.

[MonkeyFunk]

24. bullshit

Why then did Kerry agree to answer it? Why has Kerry answered it in the past? Why would the florida campus police give a shit about the content of the question?

[OzarkDem]

26. Let me see if I understand what you're saying...

any question that was asked that Kerry didn't want to anwswer meant the cops should interrupt the questioner and drag him away?

Is that what you're saying? Did Kerry give a list of questions to the cops ahead of time with instructions.

I don't think even Kerry would agree with you on that one.

People are free to ask questions, candidates are free to not answer them. None of those justify police brutality.

[Cetacea]

38. We are numb to brutality.

It is entertainment. TV fodder.

[MonkeyFunk]

39. Where did I say anything even remotely resembling that?

My position is that Kerry did not object to the question, therefore the claim that he somehow had the questioner tased for asking it is ridiculous.

[parasim]

Really. How much different is tasering than...

...this:

[LittleClarkie]

5. Most if not all of the responses have made it clear they thought the taser was over the top

Not sure what you're railing against therefore. MOst folks agree with you.

Thinking the dude was a disrupter, and thinking that Kerry couldn't do much about the situation, is different than approving the taser treatment.

[Cetacea]

10. He could have died.

Most of the arguments I've read are pro-Kerry/anti-Kerry arguments and the disruptive nature of Meyer.
If I am wrong then I thank you for the info.

[Connie_Corleone]

11. Apparently, if you think the guy is a disrupter, then you favor tasering.

At least that's what I've learned today on DU. I've been accused of being in favor of tasering the jerk because I thought he was a...well...jerk.

I DO NOT favor tasering the guy. But, I do think he's a jerk.

[LittleClarkie]

21. No, that's not what I've seen

People have made the distinction. Dude was a jerk, yes. Dude deserved to be tasered, no. There are exceptions of course.

It would seem that he was tasered not for being a jerk, however, but for resisting arrest.

[parasim]

35. What, don't they teach cops how to subdue unruly people without tasering them?

So he resited arrest... so, there's, what, six cops there, can't they get him under control without resorting to zapping him with jolts of electricity?

What, was he the Incredible Hulk or somebody?

[LittleClarkie]

37. I have no idea why the cops are taser happy these days

but some DUers who have been arrested repeatedly say that the best thing is to not resist arrest.

But since this person stopped making a fuss, and joked and laughed with the cops as soon as there were no cameras, I would reckon he wanted to resist arrest because it would make for better film.

Well, I hope he enjoyed his 15 minutes.

[parasim]

47. Well, I've not delved that deeply into the story to know if he was not indeed tasered...

...and ended up joking with the cops or whatever. If that's the case, then, I might think about this slightly differently. And certainly, resisting arrest is not a wise move in any case.

But since video seemed to show cops tasering someone for asking simple questions of a politician (and it's the kind of thing we have seen in the news more and more) and hearing the cheering folks in the tape when he was being hauled out and seeing all of the posters in these threads saying it's ok to taser someone if they are resisting arrest...

ah, whatever... who the fuck cares if our policmen are out there armed with portable torture devices, at the ready to use them in whatever situation they deem justifiable... i'm tired of believing that we are a civilized society... bleh...

[OzarkDem]

19. Not at all

Most of the responses have been ignorant and freepish, claiming the student "got what he deserved".

Its definitely been an eye opener for me to realize what jerks many of the others in DU are.

[cali]

27. That's simply not true, a falsehood, a prevarication

I've seen only a handful out of the thousands of posts that in any way stated that he got what he deserved. And you have the shiny brass ones, to actually put that in quotes? Amazing.

[OzarkDem]

31. I'm a woman, I don't have balls

and I suggest you keep reading.

[Cetacea]

33. So what was all of the arguing about?

It seems that the main issue is whether or not undue force was used and why.

[mmonk]

14. I think they should be outlawed except

for SWAT teams and such. Excessive force for the reasons they are being used.

[Cetacea]

16. I agree.

They are not toys. And they do kill. And when they don't, they probably disrupt the electrical system of the body enough to cause heart problems later on.

[OzarkDem]

17. Actually I think most of the students were frightened

there may have been a few jerks in the audience, surprising considering this was a Kerry event, but most of them were probably afraid to make a move for fear the same thing would happen to them.

[Cetacea]

36. You may be right.

Still, it's a sad state of affairs, no?

[lateo]

25. Tasers don't kill.

Cops with tasers kill.

sorry, couldn't help it.

[JVS]

29. Nobody will give a shit until a breastfeeding mother is killed by taser for not covering up

That's how GD works

[frylock]

41. and even then there will be people posting stating that she deserved it

[zeemike]

40. Several years ago here at DU

A teacher related to us an incident at here school where the police were doing a trial run on there procedures and came into the school with dogs and made the kids all lay on the flor face down while they searched their lockers.
I told here then and it seems to be provers now by what I have read today on DU, that I thought they were being conditioned to accept the jack booted treatment so they would be compliant in the future.
We are witnessing the death of free speech and freedom as we speak and few even know or understand how it has happened.
Soon there will be few Myers to deal with and they can be put into retraining camps to git right with there thinking.
And I suppose DU will be a place we come to discuss which corporation is best to run the police department. All other disrupter will be tombstone.

[ruiner4u]

48. .

wrong place...opps!

[jobycom]

42. I don't think you know what happened. They were clapping because

the dude had cut in line, grabbed a microphone from others who had waited their turn to ask a question, and then began a speech instead of a question. That's why the cops were pulling him away in the first place.

After he broke free from them and rushed the stage, where a US Senator stood, he was lucky they were so restrained with him. After RFK, Wallace, Reagan, and Lennon, cops aren't real patient with screaming assholes rushing at public figures and waving their arms around. They had no idea who the guy was, whether he was armed, or what he was going to do. When he struggled against four cops, screaming his drama (you do realize it was an act, right? You do realize if he'd been tasered more than the shortest of blasts he'd have been quivering on the ground, not screaming for the cameras, right?)

I'm seriously wondering... If this kid had acted exactly the same, but instead of trying speechify about a Palast book was waving an Ann Coulter book, calling Kerry a traitor, and accusing him of betraying America, would people have thought the cops were wrong?

[Cetacea]

54. I agree with the sensitivity issue.

"After RFK, Wallace, Reagan, and Lennon, cops aren't real patient with screaming assholes rushing at public figures and waving their arms around. They had no idea who the guy was, whether he was armed, or what he was going to do."

But still, six cops? And he was on the floor face down when they zapped him.
Who was really mugging for the attention?

I think the same arguments would ensue if it were Coulter at the podium.

[jobycom]

56. I don't mean if Coulter was at the podium, I mean if a Coulter nut was rushing Kerry.

He was still fighting on the floor. At that point, their options are limited. They can't get his hands behind him to cuff him. They can a) break his arms, b), whack the snot out of him until he gives in, c) try some form of choke hold, e) use their taser.

If you listen, in some of the tapes when he's screaming, they are telling him they aren't doing anything. He was clearly mugging for attention. And he had already escaped from two, then four cops. What were they supposed to do? Shoot him, let him up, or add more cops?

[ruiner4u]

53. Ya know what else kills?

porn.. Yup... you betcha...

[Cetacea]

55. Conductive porn. Sounds good.

[L. Coyote]

59. And? They are issued to police to use. And they use them. Surprised?

Agreed, they do kill. But, these officers, like all, follow their training and are subject to community standards. They did what they are expected to do in such a situation, stop a crazy person from grabbing one of their serious weapons, a gun, and possible shooting a US Senator!