Iran

[nadinbrzezinski]

yep, there will be war.

But, but, we don't have the forces you say....

Under a rational admnistration capable of learning... you'd be right

Or under an admnistration that didn't have such grandiose plans

But make no mistake about it

The war party, increasingly reduced to George and his buddies, KNOWS that war will get them the WH in 2008... yep they believe this is a fact, just as the sun rises in the East in the Morning...

So there will be war.

The script used to launch the new product in 2003 is back from the script writers, it has been revised, some scenes probably removed... but we are now on that tract.

I didn't believe we were going to go to war in 2003. IN fact, I believed I could do something to stop that one. Well, now I am going to sound like my parents... who wisely told me that there are some things one individual cannot change.

So there will be war

I can protest all I can, there will be war

I can write as many letters to congress as I care to, there will be war

I can ask them to be rational... there will be war.

So all I can tell you is... tonight, after readying how much diplomacy has failed and just how deeply they are using the same script, there will be war

And when the bombs fall... the democrats will dutifully stand up, go to attention and salute

And they will not be alone

The American people will stand up at attention and salute.

At least in the begining.

That is the collective insanity brought up by war

But let me make it clear. I am as much against this preemptive war, as I was against the Iraq operation

But there will be war.

That is all

Get ready

There will be war.

And you can take it to the bank...

There will be war.

[Comadreja]

1. "All cards are on the table"

means the oiligarchs will once again shoot the US People the middle finger and unleash an attack similar to the recent Israeli savagery against Lebanon. The goal will be to destroy a nation, people and culture to separate them from their oil.

[peacetheonlyway]

2. you write so very eloquently about a topic of complete horror

and yet, I agree with you wholeheartedly.

there will be war.

*** in fact, as of the Sept. 4th bombing of Syria by Israel that was the first official start of a US sanctioning of Israel to begin a series of pre-emptive strikes on Iran and other targets that could defend iran.

so my question to you mister nadin...

what is a poor citizen to do to stop the madmen criminals running their country from starting a very bad for America nuclear armageddon?

what is a person to do?

[TomInTib]

3. Good Dog A'mighty, Nadine...

I want to rent a cheap car and run away with you.

You and me and an old guitar....


KnR
Tom

[jpgray]

4. What I expect is a lot of saber-rattling and possibly a US-backed Israeli strike

Where it can go from there would be raids by US forces into Iran, and if they go that far (which I doubt), we'll have a huge mess.

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. To all of you

common goals in the middle east do not mean Israel is behind this

They were not behind Iraq either

read the Israeli Press

Sirya, if you look at the geopolitics of the region has all to do with Israel loosing face in Lebanon

Hell, this has all to do with OUR empire

And what is a citizen to do

You are to do what YOUR CONSCIENCE mandates you do

You are to do what will allow you to sleep at night

But I now realize I will do all that my conscience demands,

But there will be war.

And when the dust settles... that will be the end of the American Empire

That will be the definite end

And if we are lucky... there will just be the shadow of a superpower left to mourn, with 50k troops or so, and lord knows how many Iranians (probably in the millions)

But please realize our fall is our own damn fault

(And if a country of six million truly controls our foreign policy, which is out of the worst propaganda tracts), then we deserve our fate, and then some.

[jpgray]

6. The US wants another ally in the mideast. Part of the reason is to support Israel

Whether or not Israel supports this (big AIPAC donor recipients being overwhelmingly for the war is one clue), Israel is a big factor in the decision.

[Hardrada]

7. AIPAC pushed the bill that gives Bush unhindered discretion

to strike Iran. Last May. And a vile thing it was.

[jpgray]

8. Well, my mind's mostly made up on what Israel wants, but I suppose Nadine's isn't

Just trying to give the benefit of the doubt. ;-)

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. And AIPAC IS RIGHT WING

but they are AN AMERICAN PAC first

Israel does not control our politics... they are convenient cover.

And once again, if a nation of six million does... we deserve what is about to befall us as a nation and then some.

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. Aipac is, perhaps

but not Israel

Having studied Israeli politics, they know that the last thing they needed was the Iraq war

They were, yes even their government, as much against it as many of us were.

For them this instabitly IS DANGEROUS.

And Netanyahu is to the right of attila the hunt, but he does not control our policy

As to allies... we need allies, but Israel knows how dangerous this war is, and how destablizing this has been, worst than their worst nightmares actually

You know what AIPAC reminds me off, the Cuban refugees in Florida. They will vote republican like clockwork. They are very noisy and actually the second most influential PAC... they are not representative either (of most people from Latin America)

AIPAC is right wing, no doubt, and they have been able to silence other more moderate groups... but they are shooting themselves in the foot. TRULY

I say that as a Jew.

They are also embracing right wing politicians, out of a mistaken sense of who their real allies are.

Their allies today, will shoot them tomorrow... truly

[jpgray]

10. It was "dangerous" to us too. It's crazy for -us-! I say that as an American

Doesn't stop people from doing crazy, dangerous things. Never has. I don't pretend to know what "Israel wants," and I don't want to get your thread nuked, but I have my ideas and I've seen some evidence.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. Isreal is not behind this

thinking that Jews in Israel control our policies are out of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion

We are doing this because a group of fanatics, I'd called them, radicals, have their own agenda

It is unamerican, but it is not Israel, it is Neocons... clear enough?

[jpgray]

13. I don't see how anyone can be -sure- either way.

I've seen evidence that big proponents of Israel pushed for this war. Does that mean the whole -country- wanted it? Not anymore than the entire US wanted it. But when people say "the US wanted to go to war" they don't mean the whole country, they mean the groups in power that led the effort to go and succeeded.

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. IN THE UNITED STATES

not israelis

PROPONENTS OF ISRAEL in the United States

That is why I made the comparison to the Cuban Ameircans, who have pressured the US government NOT to lift the embargo, never mind it would be more than beneficial at different times

These are AMERICANS who are wrong, pushing for something they believe will be beneficial to Israel, never mind it is not.

[BelgianMadCow]

15. "After reading how much diplomacy has failed" - question

What did you read exactly?

I'm curious to find out, because I somehow understood Germany pulled out of the negotiations and that brought the US, the UK and apparently also Sarkozy to state the military option is becoming increasingle possible to say the least.
I must confess I do not know enough about all the rationales involved, for starters : WHAT gives nuclear countries the right to say others can't have atomic weapons??? Hypcrisy to the max, and racist as well imho.

bmc

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. Non Prolifeartion

Countries gave programs up in the promise of protection, that is the legal rational

It has no racism in it

But that is seen as basic to the international order

It is believed that if Iran or N Korea start producing nukes, it will destroy that order, and it will

It will lead innevitably to escalation and nuclear war

Now that is the logic that worked until 2000

the current regime... depends at who you look and the explanations will range from the above (articulated by General Clark) to armageddon

[hang a left]

16. Ya know...

I have been hearing this for years now. No offense nadin, please don't take it that way.

But really with Russia flexing it's muscles right now, I just don't see it happening.

Unless they are suicidal.

Really, think about the global impact if the Straits of Hormuz are unnavigable and/or Saudi/Bahrain Oil Fields are targeted. They may be crazy mutha fuckers but they are not suicidal.

[Disturbed]

17. I don't feel that Iran will be attacked Militarily.

China & Russia have $Billions invested with Iran. They would not stand for it. The US & it's allies are try to destabilize Iran & the saber rattling is but one way they are doing so; getting Iran to over spend on their defense. Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Pakistan & other countries would explode in violent rage if the US &/or Israel attacked Iran. Israel would be in ruins. The chaos in Iraq would be mild compared to what an attack would plunge the World into. Would the US Military obey such an insane command? Is the Busholini Regime suicidal?

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. Have you kept up iwht the script?

Some things are differnt from the previous script, but it is the same script

As I wrote above, in 2003 I didn't believe they were THAT crazy

One thing the admnistration does not fail to disapoint is in precisely how crazy they are, and how little they can predict of consequences to their actions

They truly did not see the resistance in Iraq, which anybody mildly familiar with the history of the area, knew it was commng.

So straits of hormuz... I am sure many of the planners pointed this out to their civilian leadership... and chances are, they were told and ordered to shut up and just go back to planning

[porphyrian]

19. We'll see. - n/t

[Kelly Rupert]

21. So the Internet has told me, every month since the fall of Baghdad. n/t

[Selatius]

22. Mark my words: If there be war, it will come in the form of a massive air campaign

We're talking about full scale bombing across all the borders of Iran. Thousands of tons of bombs dropped, hundreds of warplanes in the air, thousands of sorties per week. Its goal is to annihilate Iran's ability to defend its skies and to blow up whatever reactors and facilities Iran may have.

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. At this point I know there wil be

and it will be the reaction that once again they could not predict

[Selatius]

24. They don't care about that. Cooler heads care about that, not the ideologically blind.

If they can believe that you can take a damn stroll on a Baghdad street, they can believe that Iranians will rise up and overthrow their own government because they hate it more than they hate our government and welcome us, despite US history against Iran for the last five decades of world history.

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. I know that, and you know that

ironically this will put the final nail on the Aemerican Empire

That is how I am readying tea leaves now

And we could very well go the USSR route, with break up and all

Something about being unable to predict consequences

[Hardrada]

26. Good, we in the Midwest will go join Canada

and live in a sane nation for a change!

[progressoid]

27. Been reading that here for a few years now.

Last month, I read that we were going to do it right after Patreaus' testimony (insiders said so).

Oh, yeah, and that Dick Cheney would resign too (deep somebody or other said so).

Huh. Funny how the interwebs and reality don't always match.

[nadinbrzezinski]

29. Oh my feelng that we are now on track

and I will not give you a date, beyond saying will happen before Bush leaves the WH, is... the way things are ratcheting up in the real world

The script... I've seen it before

And it is a very sick feeling... because we have been here before

I hope I'm wrong, but Rice's discounting of El Baradei's UN outfit right after El Baradei came out and said, nope, we have no evidence was out of the Blix vs Powell play book

[fenriswolf]

28. didn't....

cent com commander fallon state that if given the order to invade he would disobey? personally I don't think we have the right to police anyone untill we can police up our own country ( and no i mean police up as in fix up)

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. He disobeys

well he can be removed and an apropriate head that will click heels can be found... even now.

They removed inconvenient officers before Iraq...

Hell the task force commander was removed under charges of fraternizing with an enlisted...

So that is what they will do

Fallon may even have to kiss a star good bye on his way out