Sen. Clinton says she "can envision a day when you have to show proof of insurance to work"

[Bluebear]

Oh my.

===

On her health care plan, Clinton said she planned to enforce the mandate to purchase health care through tax credits and other incentives.

"At this point, we don't have anything punitive that we have proposed," she said. But she said she could envision a day when "you have to show proof to your employer that you're insured as a part of the job interview — like when your kid goes to school and has to show proof of vaccination."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070919/ap_on_el_pr/clinton_ap_interview_16

[Botany]

1. and how much is she getting from the insurance companies?

Single payer national health insurance

[DemBones DemBones]

33. Probably a whole shitload of cash. nt

[Botany]

43. she is willing to do anything

look here she is w/ Rubert Murdoch

[King Coal]

75. We want socialized health care Hillary, nothing less. Nobody should make a profit from insurance.

Damn it, she is dangerous. She is proposing to do more harm than good.

[Faryn Balyncd]

124. Mandatory insurance from predatory insurance corporations = FASCIST medicine (not socialized....

.....medicine.

As much as the right wing reflexively mislabels Hillary's mandatory insurance plan "socialized medicine", the simple facts are that it is an insurance lobbyist's wet dream.

Rather than utilizing the immense amount of resources now diverted to insurance companies (who earn their keep by denying coverage to the sickest patients), Hillary's plan MANDATES that Americans buy insurance & perpetuate a corrupt & predatory insurance industry.

Calling such a plan "socialized medicine", or even a "national healthcare plan", is a joke.

[MindMatter]

189. If you thought the Military Industrial Complex was a great idea,

... you ain't seen nothin' yet.

Just one more reminder why I detest this woman. The Clinton's have no guiding principles. That's the bottom line.

[bobbolink]

132. There are plenty of DUers who think profit from health care is just fine.

:crazy:

[cyclezealot]

137. not those who have been shafted by insurance companies

to the point where those bastards put my wife's life at risk. It might happen to you some day. Guess your life has never yet interfered with their profit margin.

[bobbolink]

141. I was with you, until you decided to shit on me.

What the hell do you know about me, anyway?

Most likely it doesn't matter to you who you hurt, or how you hurt them.

Goddamn, I'm so sick of this attack shit!

You have NO CLUE what has happened to me, so get off your goddamned hate shit.

[cyclezealot]

162. chill out., jump on your ****?

how you figure. Just asked has your life ever interfered with the profit margin. How is that a personal attack. Take an aspirin and go to bed or maybe a brandy will help . Nothing personal about that. You expect some to be passive when an insurance company refused areferral and put my wifes life at risk. Since asking if you have ever asked too much of your insurance company is not personal- well, has it?

[bobbolink]

164. I don't take orders from you.

And you know NOTHING about me.

If you did, you'd be ashamed of yourself.

I told you, I was with you until you shit on me. I have compassion for your wife. You don't know the hell I've been through, and AM IN. You want compassion for YOU, but have none for anyone else.

Fuck that shit, and shame on you.

Goodbye to you, your lack of compassion for anyone else, and your ORDERS.

[cyclezealot]

165. by your choice of language

I suspect you have had a bad day. No one meant to diss you. Gauwl. Touchy. touchy

[iaviate1]

221. I agree with you...

Seems to be a misunderstanding here. You have an excellent point and I was shafted by the insurance companies too and am strongly against Clinton's plan too.

[Duncan]

250. Huh?

It seems to me cyclezealot was agreeing with your rolling eyes, unless there is some history on another post I don't know about. I don't think cyclezealot shit on anybody.

[BeliQueen]

174. Perhaps it was your use of the personalize "you"

The first writer said "some people" and you countered with "you."

Very easily fixable but it was escalated as you both became defensive.

Yeah, they probably had a bad day, yet your choice of language denoted a personal attack on someone who wasn't expressing their own opinion. And even though you didn't mean it that way--it still read that way.

Hope that helps.

[cyclezealot]

240. I regret it if the response was taken as personal.

My belief about discussion manners, it's ok to take on someone's written argument, but not them personally. By attributing an opinion to it's presenter, I thought just stating a fact. If it is taken as personal, I regret that . Still curious whose medical treatments have been subjected to an insurance companies' bottom line. We are a little touchy tho, I'll admit. If my wife's cancer diagnosis had not been subjected to a six months' delay, her four hour cancer surgery, probably would be been thirty minutes.

[BeliQueen]

244. It's hard to remain dispassionate

when it affects you personally.

And from the exchange, I got the impression that you both have been victimized by the way our health system is run.

I hope that your wife is feeling better and doing better.

I hope that the other respondent reads your message about it not being a personal attack.

But mostly I hope that someone does something about this broken system so we don't have these stories that make us so anxious.

Our health system is making our society unhealthy--how ironic is that?

[cyclezealot]

245. thanks for your concern.

my wife is a cancer survivor. And we are hopeful. But, the bungling by our HMO has caused physical discomfort and deformity that would never have happened had we been able to get the approval four months earlier. Please, don' t ever fall into a trap of overconfidence in your HMO doctor.

[iaviate1]

220. Mine has.

$350k auto coverage and I haven't seen a penny in 4.5 years as the insurance companies squabble over which one is liable. In the meantime, the other driver has admitted fault and I've lost everything. WE NEED UNIVERSAL NOT-FOR-PROFIT coverage! Clinton is unelectable in my books and this is one of the major reasons why.

[kestrel91316]

179. Those who profit from health care should be directly and personally

involved in its delivery. Period. I mean doctors, nurses, janitors at hospitals, etc. Manufacturers of drugs should be able to profit from their sale.

But NO middlemen!!!!!! Mandatory insurance will not make things cheaper. Just look at car insurance.

[bobbolink]

185. Can you imagine the outcry if there were companies making profit from our fire departments??!

And, in other countries, companies aren't allowed to get patents on prescription medications.

We are so screwn.

[kestrel91316]

258. I have no doubt Bushco has plans to privatize fire, rescue, and police

in time. If you don't have a pre-paid $10k a year subscription, your house just has to burn down. Sorry, ma'am.

[cyclezealot]

243. that is why my philosophy about our health care is just let it rot.

Under the present political predictment, there is no resolution. The current system , Insurance regulation stiffles our healthcare, bankrupts our employers, and denies treatment to the uninsured. Let's say Hillaries plan could be implemented. You think Insurance companies are gonna tolerate her making it unprofitable for them to do business. Or at least drastically reduce their profits. Anyone thinks , Including Hillary- thinks that is gonna happen, she is off her rocker.
Until lobbysists don't control COngress, reform is impossible. Americans have not suffered enough.
When the whole system totally breaks down, only then will reform be possible. Until then I just favor waiting. I'd rather wait and get it right,over apply band aids and make it worse.

[TankLV]

197. And they'd be ignorant IDIOTS one and all...

[earth mom]

154. You got that right she is dangerous and doesn't give a damn what the people want! nt

[datavg]

171. But It Won't Happen...

...if the insurance companies own the country and back half the venture capital firms on Wall Street.

We need Gore to run. NOW.

[LiberalFighter]

187. Too many elected officials don't get it.

It shouldn't be a requirement that a potential employee must be insured before they can be hired.

It should be that the employer MUST provide insurance to their employees.

How is an unemployed or under employed person going to be able to afford health insurance? How many are already uninsured because they can't afford the premiums?

Instead of the above the government should be the caretaker for insurance and provided to everyone. Eliminate health care insurance companies from the predatory business and eliminate about 30% of the cost of health insurance.

[liberation]

133. Just like her husband...

What few people realize is that most of Clinton's policies as president were to the right of Nixon's.

I am sorry, but enough of this Bush I, Clinton, Bush II, Clinton II... nonsense, we don't need dynasties we need our democracy -or whatever it is left of it- back.

[bobbolink]

142. Yes, Bill caused deaths. Yes, Nixon was our last liberal president.

Please don't be sorry for posting the truth.

[liberation]

205. Nixon was no liberal....

Carter was probably the last president closest to be considered remotely liberal. The problem is that the political discourse in this country has shifted so much to the right, that Clinton's policies in the mid 90s made Nixon's look progressive in comparison.

They succeeded in making "liberal" a dirty word. When asked if Hillary was a liberal, she answered: "No, I am progressive" She is a fucking political snake, I don't trust her as far as I can throw Bush. Same shite, except that Hillary can speak correct English.

I want an actual liberal as a choice in the upcoming election, I am tired of compromising and holding my nose shut every time I have to vote. I am a liberal and proud of it... since when is wanting peace and the common good a bad thing. What the fuck?

[L0oniX]

193. I wish Swamp Rat would Power Goo these two together

What would their offspring look like?

[jonnyblitz]

59. according to Michael Moore on "Sicko" she was number

2 recipient of most health insurance cash, Santorum was number 1. (obviously an older list)

[cyclezealot]

138. not now, she is getting more

cash than Romney from insurance companies.

[mod mom]

248. She was # 2 w Santorum # 1 so she has probably moved up.

[Lasher]

2. Maybe the proof could be a mark on your hand or forehead.

Then everybody could be required to show the mark before they could buy or sell anything.

[Demeter]

34. Or a Tatoo of Your Plan Number on the Forearm

This is why I can't vote for her--she's an idiot.

[DemBones DemBones]

35. Sounds vaguely familiar somehow. . .

:scared:

[Lasher]

62. Scary times, these.

I've been reading where some think it's too late to stop global warming. Makes me think of horses.

[Cha]

87. Tatoos are so last century..how

about an insurance chip under the skin on one's forearm?

[EVDebs]

217. Oh boy, a big 'ol 666 tattooed on our foreheads ! nt

[Kiouni]

3. I don't know if more Government is better

in this case. Instead of making the whole of America feel like their graduating from 8th grade why not apply that big government machine to oh, say a realistic health program.

We know how well mandates and enforcement works but lets do something that actually has a chance, like universal health coverage for everyone in the country.

You show up sick, they fix you, there I did the leg work, now Hillary just write me the check.

By the way I've worked in health care for quite some time and I think the whole system is bullshit. Take away the money and sure it'll slow down and suck for a while but it'll work itself out. And more importantly our grandparents will get their medication and our children will get coverage.

[speakclearly]

81. ID? We can't get ID for.................

illegal immigrants. Emploers can't determine who is a citizen and who isn't. How are they going to check on insurance programs if they can't even determine who is a citizen?

That "check" also implies that if you do not have insurance, you cannot be employed (just like if you don't have vaccinations, you can't go to school), or will be fired if you don't get insurance within a few days or weeks. That "not being punitive" is pretty lame. True, they don't put you in jail, they just won't let you work.

[Cha]

89. Briliant! She obviously needs

some better advisors or did she think up that one all by herself?

[pokercat999]

125. How about a US Health Service based on a military

model. Med school equivalent of US Military Academy's. All are "employees" of the govt. Hospitals are govt installations. All paid for by the US Treasury.

ELIMINATE HEALTH INSURANCE!

[datavg]

172. How Are You Gonna Do That...

...when seventeen percent of the US economy is based on healthcare?

This is NOT Europe!

Just how do you expect any presidential candidate to sell an idea like that to people (southerners and evangelical Christians) who don't trust you to begin with?

It will NEVER happen.

[pokercat999]

241. I don't expect ANY candidate to "sell" the idea. I expect

the people and health care workers to DEMAND it!

The health care "system" is deteriorating and will (if left unchanged) eventually fail even for the well connected and rich. Before that happens Doctors, Nurses and other Health Care Professionals will revolt, I hope.

[hfojvt]

131. you make a good point, but your last paragraph is an example

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1845146&mesg_id=1845666

"If you are under 16 or over 55, you are precious and special and the world owes you a living. If you are between 16 and 55 you are not only required to fend for yourself, but also to provide for everyone else who is under 16 or over 55."

grandparents and children are what matters. Everyone else is apparently taken care of by their benevolent employers.

[donheld]

4. Umm, If we have universal health care

Wouldn't everybody have it, why prove it? :shrug:

[Bluebear]

5. This system evidently requires you to BUY insurance...

...and you couldn't get a job unless you prove you are insured. I'm confused as of this time.

[regnaD kciN]

9. You're right...

This isn't a "universal health care" proposal, it's a "universally-required individual health insurance" proposal.

Sure, under this plan, there will be a number of steps to make insurance more affordable. But there's still no sign of what "more affordable" means. Even if steps were taken to subsidize half of the average family health insurance plan up here, which I would argue is a very generous assumption, that would still mean you'd be required to pay $500 or so per month. If you couldn't afford that, you'd be the one in trouble with the government, not the insurers.

[Bluebear]

10. Homeless applicant: I'd like a job, get off the streets, get a hand up...

Employer: I need to see your insurance ID card.

Applicant: I don't have insurance.

Employer: Tsk. You need it before you can get a job, and we don't provide insurance. You can get it very reasonably under the Federal plan, you qualify for a TAX BREAK!

Applicant: I don't pay taxes, I earn no money. I'd like a job, get off the streets, get a hand up...

Rinse and repeat.

[sam sarrha]

12. and since it is a crime to be poor, you will get a forced labor job in a Uganda copper mine for some

credits.. if you survive long enough

[Bluebear]

15. OR . . . join the military for the ongoing Iranian conflict

:crazy:

[EST]

31. It probably isn't a good idea to harbor such dark thoughts,

but a nice world-wide war would reduce the population to more closely match the earth's dwindling resources. Pity the forecast armageddon isn't supposed to translate a couple billion republicans to their reward.

Either way, I don't think Hillary has done herself much good by propounding such a stupid corporate suck up plan. We do not need a bunch of highly paid gate keepers to health care.

[Demeter]

36. That Doesn't Work

A war is only a temporary blip in the population figures--and then everybody celebrates by making babies.

What works to decrease population is: public health programs, women's education and employment, prosperity and income equality, economic stability.

[EST]

80. I was channeling a publicker.

It has been demonstrated too many times to count--increase education, income and quality of life and the birth rate slows down.

I guess I need to work on my "subtle snark" mode.

[waiting for hope]

68. Does she really believe that

the American public is that stupid?

[bobbolink]

149. You're sure the 'Murkin public *isn't* that stooopid?

[waiting for hope]

183. I would have thought that by now,

the 'Murkin public would have decided to educate themselves.....

[ThePowerofWill]

126. First thing i thought about when i heard Hillary's plan.

I heard her speak on NPR, and remark on tax credits. Well, i don't pay taxes now because of low income. How will this help me, or others in similar situations?

[creeksneakers2]

129. If you are low income

you could get medicaid or if you make too much for that qualify for a discount on the plan you choose.

[bobbolink]

152. Where do you see that in her plan?

If it isn't there, don't count on it.

Oh, and if you haven't played the go-round on low-income plans lately, you might want to rethink your assumptions.

[creeksneakers2]

166. I got it from her website

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/feature/healthcareplan/summary.aspx

"Strengthen Medicaid and CHIP: The Plan will fix the holes in the safety net to ensure that the most vulnerable populations receive affordable, quality care."

If you make too much for medicaid you'd only pay a percentage of your income.

[bobbolink]

178. Well, I wouldn't count on it. Over 300,000 people were cut from medicaid last year,

and I didn't see sHill making a big deal of it.

Just like her husband's welfare deform, it wasn't tracked, so nobody knows how many died.

edited to say: Thanks for answering my question. I meant to add that. sigh..... brain cells disappearing again... :hi:

[davekriss]

266. Tax credits are paid to you even if you owe 0 in taxes

However, don't count on these credits covering your insurance costs, they won't come even close. Hillary's plan is just plain stupid (venal, dishonest, and greedy would be better words).

As a nation we pay considerably more per capita for our healthcare than the next most expensive nation, yet WHO ranks us 37th in overall health outcomes. Our longevity is ranked 42th. By what standard, then, is the American system the "best in the world"? Sure, if you're a CEO with a golden plan you can get your adolescent daughter liposuction surgery on demand, but as for the rest of us -- well, about 18,000 of us die unnecessary deaths each year due to lack of access to care. How many untold others have severely diminished quality of life and markedly reduced societal contribution as a result? Our system is a disgrace.

Hillary's plan is so ... dishonest. It would effect "change" as if she's addressing the problem when what it does is maintain (perhaps enhance?) the siphoning off of our dollars to the predatory insurance industry and defensive healthcare administration. It would perpetuate our system without positive outcomes, though it would quell the cry for reform. I believe less than 65 cents of every healthcare dollar is spent on actually caring for patients. The rest feeds the rapacious greed that lobbies so successfully to preserve our mis-system.

I am thoroughly disappointed with Hillary's proposal and position.

[bobbolink]

148. Haven't you heard? Halliburton will be in charge of building poor houses.

Did you miss that?

:mad:

[Cha]

90. A universal

rip off system.

[NashVegas]

78. It's So It Can't Be Called a "Tax"

If we had a gov. plan, we'd be taxed more heavily, and people who had lesser paying jobs might be required to be given the same health care opportunities as CEOs.

[creeksneakers2]

128. That wouldn't be the case

because if you don't have a job you can get medicaid. Anyway, the whole comment is being blown out of proportion. They are never ever going to pass a law that says you can't get a job if you don't have healthcare.

[cyclezealot]

139. You have to be indigent to get medicaid

Unemployed does not make you indigent.

[creeksneakers2]

143. She says she's going to strengthen medicaid

so more people will qualify. If somebody is rich and unemployed, shouldn't they be able to afford health care?

[cyclezealot]

158. at 800 plus dollars a month for a family of four

I'd say for many, No.

[JTFrog]

192. Why would you have to show proof of insurance

if it didn't somehow effect whether or not you could get the job?

[creeksneakers2]

264. I don't believe the statement by Hillary was seriously

considered. She made it very clear she had no present plans about how to handle those who refuse to get insurance. She made if very clear that would have to be worked out later. I think she was brainstorming and spilled out an unclear statement about part of a half baked spur of the moment idea.

[JTFrog]

265. INSURANCE

has no place in our health CARE system.

That kind of corporate "brainstorming" reveals just how deep in their pockets she really is.

I'll throw my support to DK and HR 676, while keeping my fingers crossed that Gore gets in this race.

[loudsue]

255. Whoever thought they would suspend Habeas Corpus?

You don't know what they'll be paid by the corporations to pass, and what they won't.

It still boggles my mind how ANYONE in this country could believe in, support, or defend hillary clinton for president. You may as well elect Rupert Murdock himself.

[davekriss]

267. It varies from state to state...

...but to qualify for Medicaid you have to be stripped of most of your assets. Maybe, just maybe, you might be able to retain a 232,000 mile Dodge Colt to get to work, but don't count on it. Nevermind that you just might be denied care and die before you get a chance to liquidate.

[papau]

278. true - what will happen is a payroll deduction if no proof of health insurance

n/t

[Just-plain-Kathy]

155. I'm confused too. Does this mean employers will be let off the hook? n/t

[OzarkDem]

184. and how can you buy insurance

if you don't have a job? I'm not so sure about this idea and, if Clinton's quote isn't taken out of context (which it very well may be), its certainly not a good way to sell the public on the idea.

[Sherman A1]

32. Exactly

and we wouldn't need to show proof, nor would we need the proposed Richardson "Heroes" card for wounded vets.. Actually we pro baby wouldn't need the VA hospital system either as we would all have health care.

I am really not likin' what I am hearing about this program with all due respect to Mrs. Clinton.

Perhaps it's better than what we have now, but it isn't as good as it should be in the "Greatest Nation in The World".........

:dilemma:

[bobbolink]

145. Why prove you have car insurance?

[Apollo11]

6. I have a better idea

All the uninsured people should have to wear some kind of a sign so we know who they are.

Something like a yellow star they would have to pin on the front of their clothes.

Then employers would know not to give them a job.

And waiters would know not to serve them in restaurants.

And we would all know not to sit next to them on the bus.

:sarcasm:

[Cha]

91. How about a Scarlett Letter?

Say a big U painted on their forehead in indelible ink?

[AnotherGreenWorld]

7. ....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3531540&mesg_id=3531540

[lapfog_1]

8. The more I hear about her health plan, the more I dislike it.

That would be "STRIKE TWO" on health care Ms. Clinton...

Single payer has just got to be better.

[creeksneakers2]

130. A single payor plan would likely

make enrolling mandatory. Same deal, but with only one option instead of several.

[datavg]

175. But...

...Wall Street doesn't want it.

And that means it won't happen.

So, when does California file its secession papers?

[sam sarrha]

11. there is a F'n Catch22.... Hellery can kiss the nomination GOOD BYE!! and good riddance!!

[kdmorris]

17. Hellery???

I don't like her healthcare plan either, but do we really need to resort to calling her names like talking heads from the RW side?

Or is that just a typo that you didn't want to fix?

[Cha]

93. That "insurance plan" sounds like

hell.

[kdmorris]

104. Well, yeah.

But only if you ever need health insurance. :D

I just think we can do better than to call our own candidates names, even if we dislike their policies.

[Cha]

107. I knowwww! It's just that

she seems to ASK for it!

[kdmorris]

111. I hear what you are saying

And you made me smile, which is something considering the day I'm having at work.

But, we should take the high road.

[Just-plain-Kathy]

247. The GOP win elections (or convience people they win elections) by name calling.

..."Flip-flopper" ...the "Dean scream".


Hillary should not be our candidate...it would be gift to corporate America.

[kdmorris]

263. I understand that, too

But I try not to judge my behavior against "the GOP does it".

I am in agreement with you. I'm no Hillary fan. But the name calling is juvenile.

[Mojambo]

226. "Hellery" REALLY lowers the discourse.

I'm no fan of hers, but I would urge you away from such tactics.

Just a suggestion.

[PDenton]

13. I'm not wanting to be too dismissive

It doesn't seem she's dealing with the central problem, the real reason why people can't get healthcare coverage in the first place. Alot of people without health insurance are working poor or unemployed and make too little money to actually pay taxes.

[creeksneakers2]

135. She plans to strengthen medicaid and chips.

Those who make too much money to qualify for medicaid then you'll pay based on a percentage of your income.

[Quantess]

14. I honestly say: F*** THAT!

Mandatory Health Insurance?
What advisor of hers thought that would be a good idea for being a presidntial candidate?:thumbsdown:

[Le Taz Hot]

45. What advisor?

That would be the insurance lobby -- MAJOR campaign donors. But of course, as she recently told us, there is NO link. :crazy:

[democrank]

16. How about getting some more of those pens?

You know, like the ones used to segregate war protesters from people who support the troops. Homeland Security folks could corral all the uninsured into these areas....and our democracy would be saved once again. Anyone not insured can`t have a job. Period. If veterans can cope with being homeless and living under bridges, then the uninsured can, too. God Bless America.

[Disturbed]

18. The more I read about her health plan, the more I dislike it.

Yeah, same here.

[baby_mouse]

19. STUUUUUUPIIIIIIIID.....

What the HELL is she thinking?

[Demeter]

37. I Have Yet to See Any Evidence that the Lady Thinks

over the past 15 years....

[Kiouni]

20. Where are all the Hilldog supporters?

I've seen quite a few of these threads and no hard core hillary fan has been going crazy posting. What's up?

Usually theres more of a fit thrown.

[madrchsod]

22. they know her plan is a big pile of dog crap on the carpet

and they want someone else to clean it up...

[bananas]

26. best description ever... nt

[bluethruandthru]

52. I was just thinking the same thing! n/t

[bvar22]

103. They are at a "damage control" staff meeting.

They will return,
all at the same time,
parroting the same talking points.

Coincidence?

[creeksneakers2]

136. I'm doing my best

All this is hysteria over an out of context quote. Hillary is not going to tell people they can't get a job if they don't have health care. That's preposterous. How can anybody believe something like that?

There will be more options for the poor and working classes and everybody else too. People who can't afford insurance can get help. Medicaid will still be there and even be stronger.

The only people I can see getting angry about the plan are the ones who could pay something toward insurance but don't want to because they can go to the emergency room and skip out on the bill.

[emilyg]

212. Finally, a voice of reason.

[Forkboy]

219. I've noticed over the years that the voice of reason tends to be one we agree with.

Funny, that.

[emilyg]

224. or makes us think.

[Forkboy]

254. It's funny that all too often the people who "make us think" are also the ones we tend to agree with

:shrug:

[emilyg]

261. The Obama people make me think - don't always agree with the,. Stick a fork in it Forkboy.

[Forkboy]

262. I love you too.

[Divine Discontent]

237. lol n/t

[Bluebear]

280. Anything supporting your candidate is "the voice of reason"?

?

[Divine Discontent]

236. @@!!@!!@!

<The only people I can see getting angry about the plan are the ones who could pay something toward insurance but don't want to because they can go to the emergency room and skip out on the bill.>

YOU'VE GOT NERVE & ARROGANCE TO SAY THAT SO BOLDLY.

What you said has got to be some of the biggest pile of horeshit I've read on DU in some time, how dare you insult people like that who disagree with her comments.


Hillary will NEVER win our party's nomination. I will go to Iowa 1 month before the caucus and blast her as unelectable with anyone else who will help me. She is EXTREMELY unpopular where I live. Not a single Republican I know would vote for her, and my entire family is Democratic and not one of them when I ask what they think of her says anything more than lukewarm about her, most of it is highly negative. She's a corporate machine and that's not what my Democratic party stands for.

Next time, before you make such hateful remarks like the one above, think about the situations of people you're attacking and the possibilities that what you're saying is rather pathetic and juvenile.

thanks!

[loudsue]

256. I'll go with you, themartyred....to Iowa, anywhere, to make sure she doesn't

get the nomination. No American should have to put up with lieberman-lite for president, and I'll do anything I can to insure that doesn't happen.

[Divine Discontent]

276. I've saved you as a friend on here, just in case! n/t

[creeksneakers2]

260. I apologize

What I said could be read as saying those who disagree with Hillary's plan are deadbeats. I should have written it better.

What I was saying was in response to the complaints that people will be forced out of the system or out of work. I divide those who don't have insurance into subsets. Those who cannot pay will receive help. That leaves those who don't have insurance but could afford to buy it under the plan. I divide that into two groups, those who can afford insurance and will be glad for the opportunities under Hillary's plan, and those who can afford insurance but don't want to buy it.

Those same people can go to an emergency room and the hospital has no choice but to treat them. So the people who don't want to buy insurance are really getting the benefits of insurance but don't want to pay. I believe people should pay for what they get if they can.

Maybe this still sounds juvenile but its an underlying rationale for mandating that everyone buy insurance.

Good luck with your primary opposition to Hillary. I hope if she wins you'll vote for her in the fall. The alternative is the insurance system we have now.

[davekriss]

268. You just may want to read this little fact sheet

18,000 die a year due to lack of access to healthcare. Read this and be corrected of your misinformation (it is a PDF, but small): http://www.iom.edu/File.aspx?ID=17748

[creeksneakers2]

270. I don't see what contradicts anything I wrote. n/t

[davekriss]

271. Let them eat cake

You say, "Those same people can go to an emergency room and the hospital has no choice but to treat them." (You also swallowed the welfare queen meme under Ronald Reagan, didn't ya'?)

If you thing the "emergency room" option somehow approximates adequate care, you are woefully misinformed. 18,000 die per year due to lack of health insurance coverage (key point of the PDF I directed you to).

If you were insured and tomorrow a little blood appears in your urine, you would go to a doctor, perhaps to an emergency room, and receive all kinds of tests. Perhaps it turns out you had, say, stage 1 bladder cancer. Good thing you had access to those tests. By Monday they'd cut the tumors out and you'll probably never have to worry about it again.

On the other hand, let's say you don't have health insurance. Let's also say that 50% of your take home pay goes to pay exhorbitant rent on your 2 room hovel; the rest goes to keep the lights on and feed the kids. You may not go to a doctor. But let's say you're sufficiently worried and you go to an emergency room. There's a chance, even a good chance, that the ER will run some tests and you'll have a similar outcome to someone with good insurance (though that's unlikely, as implied by the PDF). But the hospital is not obligated to test you since the symptoms can be judged as less than urgent. Perhaps they send you away. You go home, the bleeding stops. And you don't return until months later when you have this persistent back pain. Assuming again that they treat you, this time you find out you have, say, a stage 4 transitional cell carcinoma. The cancer has errupted through your bladder wall and spread throughout your body. You'll be dead in 6 months, one of the 18,000 who die yearly because too many of us believe the rightwing meme that we already have the "best healthcare in the world".

[Divine Discontent]

275. thanks! n/t

[madrchsod]

21. it`s hard enough to get a job when you are out of work

now i`d have to show i had insurance that i could`t afford to buy? tax credits? what the fuck good is that going to do when ya have no money? so i`m to spend my money on health care then at the end of the year i get to take it off my nonexistent taxable wage? if i survive the next 4 years i`ll have universal healthcare unless she fucks around with medicare

[Cha]

92. We'd have to go underground..get

a job under the radar to save money for this insurance scam and then be able to show that we, too, had hillary's plan.. to get a real job. Suck that.

[HardRocker2005]

23. No. F-ing. Way. nt

[B Calm]

24. What a comment! Sounds like a cheap labor con artist!

[bananas]

25. Next, the Harriet and Maude commercials that destroyed her the first time...

[Nay]

27. Good God. And people wonder why I won't vote for this woman. Jeez.

This "plan" is totally insane, for all the reasons cited in every post above, and more. If anyone needed any more proof that Hillary Clinton has been bought off, well, just read her statements.

[Cha]

94. Not only bought off..she sounds

like a pod person.

[PA Democrat]

28. So we are to be forced to add to the bottom line of greedy insurance companies?

Mandatory insurance company profit program is a better name. How does she propose to force those greedy pigs sitting in the corporate offices of the insurance companies to actually PROVIDE health care? I have always had health insurance but have found that companies are getting more and more creative in finding ways to screw you out of coverage. It's obscene. I refuse to support a mandatory program which wastes money with bloated salaries and advertising campaigns, and a tedious bureaucracy aimed at denying care.

[creeksneakers2]

146. You'd have an option to choose a government plan. n/t

[papau]

279. nice try - but folks in this thread don't want to discuss the plan - they just want to bash Hillary

the only logical points against it are the fact that single payer from the get go is a better approach, and Edwards point that he could sell the idea to Congress better and get it passed whereas Hillary will fail (a debatable point but at least it has a logic one can discuss).

I have just about finished going through the details - it is a much better approach the Mitts in Mass plan - but does not lay out the fact that, like Mitt's Mass plan has now, it is going to require regulatory actions to prevent insurance companys gaming the system or providing meaningless policies with no real coverage..

[Zodiak]

29. What a stupid, out-of-touch statement

Can't get a job to get insurance...can't get insurance to get a job.

[Cha]

95. Thowing us a

catch 22, is she?

[Zodiak]

101. It certainly appears so

We do not need health insurance laws like we need auto insurance laws.

We just need affordable health insurance, dental, and drug coverage for all....employed, non-employed, disabled, old, young etc.

[Cha]

106. But, how would the insurance corporations

make out on that thoughtful system?

[Zodiak]

108. LOL...they wouldn't

I used to work for one.......let them vortex down the drain of history.

All of those thousands of underpaid employees they have that process claims and serve to inform patients and doctors can simply work for the single payer system and have the benefits of having a union job for once.

The health insurance companies long ago forfeited their right to conduct business in the United States. They kill thousands due to their economic exclusivity and selective coverage. Fuck 'em.

Same can be said about the bloated upper administration in most hospitals and their sweetheart deals with medical suppliers. The whole system is a profit-grab at just about every level except the doctors and the patients.

[Cha]

113. All of them are going to hang on

to their "sweetheart deals" like their very life(nooo) depended on 'em.

[treestar]

30. What a horrible idea

Why should that ever be related to the ability to be hired?

At least with mandatory auto insurance, there's a rationale that's related.

[Vinca]

38. It's really very sad.

Here we are at a point in history where we might take the White House, House and Senate. We might be in a position to make historic changes. A position that could bring healthcare and peace of mind to every citizen of this country. Cancer patients could focus on getting well, not beating back bill collectors. There wouldn't be bake sales for sick people. Healthy people wouldn't be afraid to go for a physical that might show something wrong that wouldn't be covered under insurance. Like Canada - and Great Britain, France, Germany, CUBA and other countries - we need a national healthcare card that entitles us to the system. We go to the doctor or the hospital, we receive treatment, we go home. We do not get bills. We are not dunned by collection agencies. We are not threatened with foreclosure over medical bills. All the so-called "universal" healthcare plans that involve insurance companies will not stop them from denying coverage, charging co-pays and nickel and diming the citizenry to make their billions-of-dollars-a-quarter profit. Insurance companies are not humanitarian organizations, they're greedy, money machines. What the heck are Hillary, Obama and Edwards thinking?

[davekriss]

269. Amen, Vica (nt)

[Bassic]

39. This is such a bad fucking idea....

Not only does it perpetuate the insane prices of the insurance industry, it ensures not only that the poor can't get health care, but that they can't get jobs either.

[leftchick]

40. "Clinton’s Prescription for Another Heath Care Reform Failure"

in short, this plan is a nightmare.....

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/09/18/3919/

by John Nichols

<snip>


The reality is that the Clinton plan is about as socialistic as a Ronald Reagan corporate tax cut.

The Clinton plan maintains the current system of for-profit, insurance-industry defined health care delivery. The only real change is that, in return for minimal requirements regarding coverage of those with preexisting conditions, the government would pump hundreds of billions in federal dollars into the accounts of some of the country’s wealthiest corporations. The plan’s tax credit scheme would buy some more coverage for low-income families, which is good, but it would do so at a cost so immense that, ultimately, Clinton’s plan will be as tough a sell as the failed 1993 “Hillarycare” proposal.

America is ready for health care reform.

But it is not ready for more bureaucracy, more expense and more revenue for insurance companies.

<snip>

Clinton could have proposed such a system. Indeed, she could have modeled it on the plan she and other members of Congress now enjoy.

Instead, she chose to propose a scheme defined not by the needs or desires of the American people but by the demands of existing insurance firms and a dysfunctional for-profit health care industry.

If the senator is nominated and elected, and if she advances the initiative she unveiled Monday, there will be no health-care reform. And America’s uninsured and under-insured millions will be doomed to suffer for another decade or so because Hillary Clinton was incapable of extracting herself from the grip of the corporations that have made it so hard for the Americans to get the care they need.

[Cha]

96. I respect and trust John Nichols

immeasurably and this is what we all came up with too. Thanks, leftchick, for this link!

[leftchick]

97. you are welcome

I liked it so much I posted it in a thread here.....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1843227

[mmonk]

41. Her plan makes private healthcare insurance the game in town

you have to deal with rather you like it or not. It's turning the whole industry over to the insurance industry. Should mean a lot of cash for her campaign.

[creeksneakers2]

150. That isn't true

Hillary's plan would give everybody the option of choosing a government plan.

[Larry Ogg]

42. I can envision 75% of the American work force as being illegal workers.

The lucky one’s being paid $5.00 a day under the table with no benefits, and the not so lucky standing on street corners holding a sign that says, “I will work for food”.

[FooFootheSnoo]

44. I looked at the pdf of her plan

it's very vague and the number of options could potentially be confusing.

I hate the idea of citizens being forced to purchase insurance from a private company.

[zeemike]

46. I think it is all part of her plan to louse the election in 08

The right wing noise machine is already gearing up on this even before she has the nod. They are convinced that she has the nomination and they may know something that we do not.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

47. Too bad they are finding those rfid chips seem to cause cancer or she'd probably recommend

those as proof...

[leftchick]

49. it all depends

on how much the RFID chip manufacturer is giving in donations to her.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

50. Oh silly me! I forgot about that!!!! Thanks for the reminder. :) nt

[leftchick]

53. one must never forget

the power of the corporate dollar in clinton's hand.

[ima_sinnic]

48. GOOD! show yr true colors BEFORE the primaries!

Please let this finally sink in with the voters: HRC is just a shill for the insurance industry. She will work 24/7 for the insurance industry. She will make sure that you, the average American worker, is screwed to the utmost. Under President HRClinton, you can bet your house will be foreclosed and you will be in debtor's prison--or at least sleeping under a bridge--because the insurance companies will RULE and if you can't pay them--too bad, so sad!--and then, even if you can afford insurance, you may or may not get treatment (preferably NOT, according to the insurance industry).

I notice the "hillary is 44" cheerleaders are not up to the task of hiding this dog poop?

go hillary go! GO AWAY that is!

[bluethruandthru]

51. Wow...

You might as well come out and say "Unless you pay a hefty chunk of change to my buddies at the insurance companies...I won't let you get a job"! Gee thanks Hill!

[DemBones DemBones]

54. This thread needs 3 more recommendations to make it

to the Greatest Page. Everyone really needs to see this.

[raccoon]

55. After that crazy remark, I don't know if I'd vote for her if she were running against GWB.

IF YOU DON'T HAVE A JOB, HOW THE FUCK ARE YOU SUPPOSED TO BE ABLE TO AFFORD INSURANCE?

I never liked her much, and I certainly don't now.

[BostonMa]

56. The woman has truly sold herself out to the highest bidder.

And the bidder is the insurance industry.

Fare thee well, Hillary, we hardly knew ye.

[wicket]

57. K & R

:kick:

[Pawel K]

58. So how many Clinton supporters are still over here?

Where are you all to jump to her defense?

[mark414]

60. wow...this "bold new plan" keeps getting worse and worse

[ima_sinnic]

61. K&R -- I want as many as possible to see HRC's true colors

--now apparently she feels she doesn't even have to hide the fact that she will do the insurance company's bidding no matter what it is. I wonder how much they contributed to her campaign for that little favor? Just think how obscenely even more rich the insurance CEOs would become if every American man, woman, & child were REQUIRED to have insurance, and how that booty would spill over to her!

I consider her even getting into the territory of treason--she is working AGAINST The People's interests.

[Canuckistanian]

63. Wrong, wrong, wrong.

In the first place, she's suggesting a draconian authoritarian solution to a complex problem. You don't solve health problems in a society by punishing people.

Second, she hasn't addressed the main problem of out-of-control medical insurance plans.

And thirdly, this will be ANOTHER drain on government revenue that essentially goes right into the pockets of insurance companies, not doctors, nurses and hospitals.

Such a bad idea, I'd be surprised if other candidates don't seize on it.

[Grandrose]

64. This dog won't hunt............

"At this point, we don't have anything punitive that we have proposed," she said.
What if you are unemployed?:think:

[Bluebear]

65. I'm glad you asked!

Applicant: Hi, I'd like a job, get off the streets, get a hand up...

Employer: I need to see your insurance ID card.

Applicant: I don't have insurance.

Employer: Tsk. You need it before you can get a job, and we don't provide insurance. You can get it very reasonably under the Federal plan, you qualify for a TAX BREAK!

Applicant: I don't pay taxes, I earn no money. I'd like a job, get off the streets, get a hand up...

Rinse and repeat.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

277. Sounds like the so-called Christians at the church I went to.

When I asked them to HELP ME FIND A JOB.

Ha ha ha ha ha.....why did I expect them to help me?

They never took to heart "As you did it to the least of them, so also you did it unto me."

[hughee99]

66. If she becomes president, I could see it happening too. n/t

[antigop]

67. Her plan says you have ACCESS to the same options as members of Congress --not necessarily same cost

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/feature/healthcareplan/summary.aspx
>>

# The Same Choice of Health Plan Options that Members of Congress Receive: Americans can keep their existing coverage or access the same menu of quality private insurance options that their Members of Congress receive through a new Health Choices Menu, established without any new bureaucracy as part of the Federal Employee Health Benefit Program (FEHBP). In addition to the broad array of private options that Americans can choose from, they will be offered the choice of a public plan option similar to Medicare.

# A Guarantee of Quality Coverage: The new array of choices offered in the Menu will provide benefits at least as good as the typical plan offered to Members of Congress, which includes mental health parity and usually dental coverage.
>>

It doesn't say you get it at the SAME PRICE as members of Congress.

This needs to be pointed out....

[Bluebear]

69. Like I have ACCESS to a Maserati.

:)

[antigop]

70. EXACTLY. Access and affordability are not the same thing. n/t

[mark414]

71. and her plan says that you HAVE to have it

and now she's saying that if you don't have it you can't get a job and you'll probably even be punished


it's the next logical step in the process of making being poor illegal

[creeksneakers2]

159. She's not saying that

Drudge says that's what Hillary says. Hillary says they aren't planning anything punitive at all now.

[mark414]

170. at this point, she doesn't have anything

which means, as i read it, that she will have something in the future

bad plan...bad bad plan

[emilyg]

215. Once again - thank you.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

72. And, she expects me to vote for her?

She's getting very good at giving me reasons why I won't.

[Oilwellian]

73. Remember the good old days?

The days when you got health insurance as part of a benefits package FROM your employer? Hillary's plan sounds like an opportunity for employers to drop offering health insurance to its employees.

[Bluebear]

74. Indeed. Business is happy, insurance companies are happy....what about us?

I don't like this at all.

[snooper2]

76. I don't see her defenders anywhere:?

nt

[NashVegas]

77. And That's Why I Will Not Vote for Her

Sorry, I just won't.

[L0oniX]

79. Ah ...get your Home Land Security and Insurance clearance card here ..huh.

Oh just get an implant and be done with it or maybe opt for one of those nice number tattoos on your arm.

:sarcasm:

[Avalux]

82. That is a very disturbing statement; not in the best interest of THE PEOPLE.

I haven't investigated her plan so I can't say I know exactly what she proposes, but how on earth can she tie employment to PRIVATE health insurance?? Ugh. x(

[Heywood J]

83. I foresee a growing market

in the Chinese knock-off health-insurance card business. You'll be able to buy them on street corners from the same people who sell fake IDs. Because that's what it'll take.

[redqueen]

84. Is that a DIRECT quote?

Any context to fix that?

:rofl:

Wow!

[Macchendra]

115. The article has effectively the same:

`But she said she could envision a day when "you have to show proof to your employer that you're insured as a part of the job interview...`

Hey Mitt Romney put this one over on Mass... If we put Hill up against him then we are guaranteed to have it.

BTW, Insurance (for me anyway) seems to rival taxes... does that mean the insurance industry is more powerful than our government?

[KaptBunnyPants]

85. That's terrible spin for what is supposed to be a pretty good plan.

What was she thinking?

[Cha]

86. There's a descriptive word or two

that comes to mind but I can't say one of 'em. "Stupid" will do.

Personally, I'm going to retire in 3 years and moved back to Kauai but that work world ol' hillary envisioned sounds like shit.

Come on hillary..think of something real punitive for us folks..we're all really just masochists at your beck and call.

Please, Uniververse, don't let her back in the white house.

Some of those "vaccinations" worked out real well, didn't they?

[SoCalDem]

88. but ''heaven forbid".. no one wants any "ID"s that would be necessary for true

universal health care that was reserved for US citizens only..now do they?

:eyes:

[skip fox]

98. I think she has misguaged the public hatred of manditory anything.

I think it cost her the election before she's even off and running.

I'm not saying it should turn potential voters away from her, but that it will.

[IronLionZion]

99. yeah those dumb uninsured folks just need someone to tell them to get insurance

:sarcasm:

The saddest part about all of this is that the Republicans will still say it's socialism, even though this is a very pro-corporate Romney-esque plan that gives more of our hard-earned money to insurance companies. It's the Republican dream. Republicans want this really bad.

[huskerlaw]

100. How is a poor person

supposed to buy health care with tax credits?

Seriously.

:wtf:

:banghead:

I won't even get into the creepy big brother-ness of having to show an insurance ID to get a job... :scared:

[librechik]

102. Talk like this makes me not want to EVER vote for her

can I still pledge to vote for her as the candidate? --jeesus, I don't know!

[FiveGoodMen]

105. And why is ANYBODY still supporting this gawd-awful woman?

[Theres-a]

109. Fuck her. nt

[backscatter712]

110. What the hell is she smoking?

And why isn't she sharing.

Why does she want to create yet another Catch 22 in our society.

Can't find work because you're uninsured, and then you can't get insured because you're unemployed and broke. Greaaat.

I suppose she is throwing a bone to the poor and middle class by offering to expand Medicare, but that will only partially solve the problem - lots of people won't even be able to afford Medicare.

And just wait until her proposal becomes a bill and goes through that sausage grinder that is our legislative process. The real monetary benefits designed to help the poor and middle class afford coverage will be stripped away by lobbyist paid Congressional invertebrates, who'll instead get the money to themselves, the rules curtailing the abuses by hospitals, insurance companies and pharmcos will be emasculated, and everything will be business as usual. Except the mandatory insurance clause will somehow survive, and millions will be screwed in a whole new way.

[Stephanie]

112. jinx!

Great minds, Dearbear!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3531540

[Bluebear]

114. But of course!

:pals:

[Stephanie]

211. you owe me a coke!

and I will hold you to it!

[cosmicdot]

116. Which of the 2008 candidates are pocketing money ...

from ...

Health
http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/select.asp?Ind=H01

Pharma
http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/select.asp?Ind=H04

Lobbying
http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/select.asp?Ind=K02

Insurance
http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/select.asp?Ind=F09

OpenSecrets.org
http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/index.asp?cycle=2008

[ima_sinnic]

117. has anybody shown this to KO yet? I want EVERY American to know

EXACTLY what certain so-called Democrats have planned for us.

[garybeck]

118. Stop the madness! Single payer universal health care for everyone! NOW! n/t

[BreweryYardRat]

119. Christ! That's just all KINDS of poorly planned.

Edwards or Obama for President, please. So far as I know, their plans aren't nearly that bad.

[XemaSab]

121. NO PLAN

is better than a shitty plan.

Not that either of those gents doesn't have a plan, I just don't know what (if anything) their plans consist of. :)

[Pastiche423]

186. Both of those gents

include the insurance industry in their plans.

[Baby Snooks]

120. Homeless but insured.

The future of America under Hillary Rob'em Clinton. Homeless but insured.

[AZBlue]

122. But, I get my health insurance from my employer - so no more employer-provided healthcare???

Huh???

[trashcanistanista]

163. Believe me, if there were a loophole for employers

to dump their health insurance programs they would do it. If the small fee she asks them to pay is cheaper than providing benefits there is no reason for them to offer coverage and it would increase their bottom line to dump this benefit and saddle it onto the employee. They already do it overseas. Hilary fails to mention that most countries provide and pay for health care for their citizens.

[AZBlue]

202. And why does no candidate get that idea???

"...most countries provide and pay for health care for their citizens."

Is that such a difficult concept to understand??

[Froward69]

123. Joe Biden hasnt been bought by

The Insurance Company's. Hillarys plan proves she is
1)bought
2)paid for
3)really does not care
4)will say anything
5)does not realize it is the HMO's that created this mess to begin with.

Joe Bidens plan would cover all of us. while removing the Insurance companies and their profit from the mix!

[Pastiche423]

190. The Joe Biden

that brought us the bankruptcy bill?

How lovely.

:grr:

[AZBlue]

201. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[KT2000]

127. JOE BIDEN FOR PRESIDENT

:bounce:

[cyclezealot]

134. that about does it.

I don't know if I can stomach that senator from Prudential. Her loyalty is not to the American people. Making us pay ransom to lousy insurance policies screwing us and thinking tax credits will begin to dig us out of our insurance poll. We DU's can't say we'd not vote for a Democrat, but maybe we fear we might be too tired to wake up on election day.

[Jed Dilligan]

140. David Brooks yesterday said hers was the best plan going

Nuff said

[stlsaxman]

144. Hillary lets her campaign contributors write legislation, just like Bush!

Six of one!

Meet the new boss!

S.S.D.D....

[rucky]

147. I WANT to hear the spin on this one! n/t

[Just-plain-Kathy]

151. "Business LOVES Hillary".

We have to cut out the middle-man, we have to get rid of insurance companies and start taking care of ourselves with the taxes we already pay. ...No more tax cuts for the rich!!

Stop paying for bombs!!!

[MisterHowdy]

153. she's showing her true colors

her loyalty is to cash, not people.

[Just-plain-Kathy]

156. She'll be our next president whether we like it or not.

I think she's part of BushCo.

[MisterHowdy]

157. so true

and, unfortunately,
if she became the nominee,
I would vote for her.

n/t

[dflprincess]

176. And if she does get elected

More than likely we'll be stuck with her as the Democratic nominee in 2012 as well. Which means it could be 2016 before we manage to get a Democrat back in the White House.

I think I'll give up politics and take up drinking.

[Just-plain-Kathy]

188. By 2016, it will be Jeb's turn or maybe Marvin Bush. Democracy is gone. ...n/t

[trashcanistanista]

160. I don't like this about her plan and the other thing I don't

like is the fact that she claims there are numerous plans to choose from. This is somewhat of a fallacy if she means multiple plans at multiple prices. The cheaper priced plans provide less coverage or higher copays. There should be one plan insuring everyone for everything. When you increase the pool of insured to include everyone, the healthy and sick should balance out to make it affordable for everyone to be covered. If someone has to go for a cheaper plan, then maybe they won't be able to come up with a high copay and plan or no plan, would not get any health benefit from it. No one has seemed to pick up on this aspect of her plan yet.

[LiberalHeart]

161. Is she going to guarantee insurance coverage to everyone?

And if you're unemployed but looking for work, and can't afford insurance, will you now not be able to apply???

[mzmolly]

167. "Let them eat cake!" Just goes to show you how friggen out of touch

many of our politicians are. What a pathetic statement. I hope she'll think that through very soon.

[Baby Snooks]

195. The last one who said that...

The last one who said "Let them eat cake" was Marie Antoinette who no doubt waved her hand imperiously as she said it. Not long after she said it, off to the guillotine she went.

[orleans]

168. hillary, hillary, hillary. I'M NOT VOTING FOR THAT SHIT!

and if she's pushing that poison pill, she is helping me make up my mind as to WHO NOT TO VOTE FOR.

[juno jones]

169. OK, lemme figure this one out...

They say that the working poor will pay a 'percentage'...Where are the numbers, the income cutoffs, and just how are you going to track and enforce this? I have never made more than $10,000 a year. About 7-800 a month at most. Where the fuck is an insurance payment coming from out of my rent, utilities, car insurance, etc? The extra hundred or so I have left allows me to eat healthy food, get the few meds I need (mostly OTC and nutritional supplements that keep chronic problems stabilized) and go to the thrift store once in awhile to shop. Oh and maybe eat out once a month or go to a movie. Such is the 'mad money' that some of you are saying I would gladly piss away rather than pay some mythical 'fair share' to the insurance racket. Did she even think about the shot to the economy when suddenly there is no extra income to even shop freaking Targay for a pair of socks that don't look like paul wolfowitz's?
And will we all be reporting to social workers monthly to have our wage stubs inspected for proof of income?, like I did when I first had my kids and had to rely on food stamps and medicaid, always fearful that an extra hour or two on my paycheck would make me ineligible for the minimal help I was receiving? I quit that system as soon as I could because I found it degrading. Frankly, for putting my body on the line every day to make other people rich I deserve free care. For what we have given our 'leaders' in money, time, sweat, blood and labor we deserve free universal care! Nothing else will do and is merely another exploitation of our persons and dignity.

I want to see numbers, not just assurances that Hill's brilliant and has got it all under control. I just think about the last politicians who said "Trust Me"....

end rant...whew.

[Mojambo]

229. Awesome post.

I'm in much the same position as you.

I fail to see how Hillary's plan makes ANY kind of a positive impact for me.

[davekriss]

173. Why doesn't she just change parties, already (nt)

[Raine]

177. I don't work so

I wonder what she "envisions" for me. :shrug:

Anyway what happened to your employer providing healthcare? I couldn't stand Hillary before and I dislike her even more after hearing this. :puke: :mad:

[Cha]

180. I hope nothing

"punitive"!

[dmr]

181. I can imagine the affordable, yet meaningless, basic coverage sold to those

who can barely afford their utilities and put food on their kids.

Unless greedy profit is taken out of the picture, we will have even more policies out there that either won't cover needed medical expenses, or designed it in such a fashion you'd need a full-time Philadelphia lawyer and her secretary to file the discouraging mountainous paperwork.

A company can write the mandated policies, but until the corporate greed is removed, nothing will be solved.

This is a set-up for failure. And when it fails, fingers will be pointed that the 'government's influence' into private & personal matters was predicted, right from the beginning, to fail, even though it will be set up by those who will assure its failure.

[izzybeans]

182. She's not fit to clean my car if this is true.

[The Witch]

191. How about proof of insurance to incorporate your BUSINESS?!

Why is the onus always on the piddling humans and never on the saintly corporations?!

What a ridiculous set of priorities!

[truedelphi]

198. Well the big corporations probably don't care any more

The factories where they employ people, the research labs where the major breakthroughs come from - those are all overseas now.

[Iwillnevergiveup]

194. Let's not forget

Hillary is from a Republican family and used to be a Republican!

I was reminded today of my dear old dad predicting halfway through Clinton's second term that she would run for president some day. I said, "No way." His response was "Darling daughter, she's VERY ambitious."

:scared:

I cannot and will not vote for her.

[TankLV]

196. Hey Clinton you fucking ignorant tool: IF WE HAD ENOUGHT TO SAVE WE WOULDN'T BE HAVING THIS DEBATE

PEOPLE HAVE NO MONEY!!!

GET A FUCKING CLUE!!!

HOW DO YOU FUCKING PAY FOR ANYTHING OR GATHER SAVINGS IF YOU DON'T FUCKING HAVE A JOB!!!!

Make the employers PAY for ALL insurance - just like Hawaii did...every business was on the same level playing field.

But WE want GOVERNMENT PROVIDED AND PAID FOR HEALTH CARE - MEDICADE OR MEDICARE FOR EVERYONE!!!

[truedelphi]

200. I'm sure that surrounded by the elite Multi national corporatists

She is told all day long that we the unbathed and uneducated masses don't have the common sense to buy insurance, because of our ignorance or our desire to make someone else pay for it.

I would think she would consider that many of the uninsured have been rejected by insurance companies for pre-exisiting conditions.

But maybe she jsut doesn't care.

After all, she is already being told she has won the nomination - and she may well be being told tht she has the Presidency as well.

[Danger Mouse]

199. Not just PUKE, but REPUKE.

Clinton displays her unswerving loyalty to her beloved insurance companies. If she wins the nomination, we'll be down to a choice between Repuke and Repuke Lite.

[Sanctified]

203. Is she fucking nuts or completely ignorant?

She just blew whatever chance she had on getting my vote, I will vote for fucking Mickey Mouse before I vote for her in a general election. How the fuck are you supposed to pay for insurance if you are unemployed and how the fuck are you supposed to get employed if you are uninsured. She sounds like she is trying to suck the dick of WalMart.

[JVS]

204. that sounds bad

[Richard Steele]

206. Fuck Hillary, and the Corporations she rode in on! 50th rec.

[babylonsister]

207. Well, hell. nt

[countmyvote4real]

208. Me, Me, Me.

Both HRC and her husband are political whores. His administrative policy compliance might be more forthcoming than that of the current dictator, but it's not by much.

This is only a response to the original post.

She is a bad choice for America when there are many more progressive candidates with real ideas that protect the people rather than the corporations.

[Macchendra]

209. Notice how the media frames her as...

the far left, with their lockstep punditocracy denouncing "Hillary-Care" when in fact it should be denounced for being right-wing.

[Arugula Latte]

210. God she's so disgusting.

I really don't want to despise her. I really don't. But I'm failing that effort.

[dysfunctional press]

213. calling candidate Gore...calling candidate Gore...please pick up the white phone in the lobby...

the stage is being set.

[razors edge]

214. When jobs are illegal...

Senator Clinton, Senator Clinton, Henry Winkler on the white shark has been jumped phone.

[emilyg]

216. I read everyone of your rants. How many of you took the time

to actually read her plan, obama's plan, Edwards plan.? Not many I bet. Ranting is so much more effective.

[Bluebear]

222. "Everyone of my 'rants' ?" ---pardon me, madame?

[emilyg]

223. Bluebear - sorry if i posted in wrong place.

[Bluebear]

225. Phew . . .

I thought you meant every one of MY rants :)
All good!

[cui bono]

228. Really Bluebear, keep it down. Try to control yourself already.

;)

[The Vinyl Ripper]

230. Strange that you fail to mention..

Kucinich's plan..

The best one.

[emilyg]

233. It very well might be.

[juno jones]

252. From what I can see no details are offered...

I am simply asking what kind of numbers, enforcement, etc. they are honestly projecting for these programs....any of them. It is so glib to say 'the poor will have medicare or sliding scale or whatever' but in actual practice the bar is set far too low to make any real difference. For the record I don't like any plan except for Kuchinich's. Edwards has got it wrong with his mandates, at least Obama isn't mandating anything with his but it still sucks in keeping the insurance companies as a p;layer.

Sorry, after years of poverty, occasional homelessness (once while holding TWO jobs), unpleasant brushes with the realities of medicaid, food stamps and those who 'gatekeep' them, and two near death experiences from the crappy 'emergency-room' health care given to those poor who have a genuine medical emergency, I take none of these politician's talk for granted, and neither should you.

Universal health care...at least we'll respect ourselves in the morning....

[defendandprotect]

218. This takes Hillary out of the "last resort" category for me and into the really dangerous zone -- !!

[cui bono]

227. Mandatory. Just how it should be.

Except it should be FREE! And no insurance company should profit from it.

Does she think people don't want health insurance and that they need to be forced to buy is as if they could afford it in the first place? And what about the people who have it but it makes little to no difference since it's a for profit business?

Good lord, she is SO far out of touch. She needs to drop out already. What a power hungry greedy person she is, doesn't give a rat's ass that she's screwing over the people who need help.

Just say NO to Hillary. It is your patriotic duty.

[Macchendra]

272. Unelectable I'd Say (because of her views)

I seriously cannot vote for her. Maybe to appease those wanting a woman president we need to chip in for sexual reassignment surgery for Kucinich. ;)

[Mojambo]

231. The word "clusterfuck" gets thrown around a lot these days.

This plan is the dictionary definition...

[jgraz]

232. Isn't it interesting how none of the Hillaristas have shown up on this thread?

I guess they're keeping their powder dry for the next poll result.

[emilyg]

234. I showed up.

[timtom]

235. How f*****g LAME!!!

Bought and paid for, ladies and gentlemen. Bought and paid for.

[Divine Discontent]

238. say bye bye to that support base you had hillbill!

seriously... she's a corporate machine... I'm almost nauseous to think that she could win our nomination.

then reality sets in - when people start hearing the negative commercials about her come primary time - they'll pull away from her (I hope).

She's got such HIGH negatives in the repub party, they'll all come out to vote against her, and she's without question the candidate in our party who has the most people strongly against her. Now, out of the top 5, I'm sure my choice (John E.) is probably second highest, but I'm feeling pretty confident that she holds a good 4-1 margin in distrust within our party as least favorable candidate. No candidate is perfect, but I can find A LOT wrong with her and her ties to corporate America.

A LOT!

[loudsue]

257. repubs will vote against her in the general....they're all voting FOR her in the primaries.

They're switching parties to do so in my area. They want her to be the dem nominee so bad they can taste it.

[Divine Discontent]

274. you can't tell this to ANYONE

I want to puke... the thought of her as our nominee smells like a 56-44 shellacking in the G.E., if you ask me...

[JTFrog]

239. Why would you need to show your employer proof

of insurance? What scenarios can you picture that would make this necessary.

How do you afford insurance if you are currently unemployed? Catch 22?

Ok, let's make a whopping assumption that were on unemployment and somehow you qualified for medicare. Now, if you have medicare and have to show this proof to your employer, once you get the job you will no longer be eligible, so what good did it do proving you had it?

It seems more likely to say that the employer would choose someone with private insurance over no insurance or medicaid, thereby relieving themselves of the responsibility to pick up the employees insurance themselves.

I don't see any reasonable situation that would make a person have to show proof of insurance to get employment. This is just an incredibly stupid way of funnelling cash into the insurance companies pockets.

How can you sell corporate bullshit as a rose? I sure as hell am not going to buy it.

[Phrogman]

242. Government should be responsible for the comprehensive health care of its citizenry, Period!

No ifs, ands, or buts, if one lives outside the USA propaganda bubble, this becomes apparent.

The health of individuals in the community affect that communities overall health.

Don't let these people and their propaganda fool you, total socialized health care for absolutely everyone who needs it, demand the revolution, you're already paying for it.

[Orsino]

246. How about working for the day when a Representative or Senator...

...has to show proof of universal coverage to be reelected?

[Broadslidin]

249. Tis simply Purification, Assembling & Preserving the Most Valuable Stock.

:hide:

[Duncan]

251. That is fascist corporatism, not socialism. nt.

[Macchendra]

253. But if you watch MSNBCNN all day long

They'll have crammed "socialized medicine is the problem" down your throat.

Ironically, under Romney's plan you are fined if you don't give the insurance criminals their cut.

[qanda]

259. Unbelievable

What is her problem?

[Prophet 451]

273. Great idea

Let's funnel yet more cash to an insurance sector that's already profiteering, cherry-picking it's clients and delivering such world-class care. Gee whizz, thank you Hillary for such a revolutionary plan!

[aikoaiko]

281. Rut-roh....

[PM Martin]

282. So if you can't afford to buy insurance, you can't work.

Sounds like a program that Bush would propose.

[DaveJ]

283. And people say Obama says dumb things

Even though I totally agree with this approach (I really do not understand why so many people are so against paying out-of-paycheck for health insurance like most people already do), it's obvious based on the reactions here that comments like this will kill her in an election.

This is similar to, or even worse, than Obama's remark on talking to hostile leaders.

Now who's the naive candidate, Obama or Hillary?