What if it was George Bush on that stage in Florida?

[jgraz]

And one of the students gets up and starts asking him some impertinant questions -- perhaps about the theft of the 2004 election or whether he should be impeached or maybe about his membership in Skull & Bones. And the police grab the kid and drag him out of the hall while the entire audience applauds.

Bush, of course, just stands on stage watching, saying very little of consequence. Or maybe he makes a smirky joke while the kid is wrestled to the ground and handcuffed. And then, as the kid is tasered by the police, Bush continues to stand there, microphone in hand, doing and saying nothing to help the kid or defuse the situation.


I wonder what we'd all be saying about THAT situation?

[brentspeak]

What if DU stopped being the place where Kerry-bashers ran wild?

[jgraz]

5. Thanks for never disappointing, brent

:eyes:

[coco77]

1. Fox news wouldn't cover it..

unless they couldn't avoid it and then they would make sure all of the blame would be on the protestor. Plus, it has happened multiple times in the background.

[jpgray]

2. What if the kid hadn't forced his way in, pushed to the front of the line, and acted like an asshat?

What if the police didn't try to walk him, which escalated the situation into an unnecessary tasing? What if protest is more effective when you don't undermine your message by acting like a jackass?

[jgraz]

7. He was the last questioner. How is that pushing to the front of the line?

This "barging to the front of the line" is Kerry's shameful way of trying to shift the blame onto the kid. The videos show he did nothing of the sort.

[jpgray]

18. All the videos start -after- that, after Kerry called off the cops to allow the question

Preceding this, according to several eye-witness accounts, the kid burst in and pushed to the front of the line. Cops were going to remove him at -that- point, but Kerry wanted to hear the question. Read up on the incident before diagnosis from a video. What are you, Bill Frist? :D Hope you never sit on a jury.

[jobycom]

38. Your facts disagree with every eye witness I've heard

They all state that the man cut in line and grabbed a microphone. They also all say that he handed someone nearby his video camera and told her to tape him. That's when the tapings start.

And that's not Kerry's story, that's the story of everyone I've heard from the event--mostly students.

Kerry has answered such questions every day since the election. Why do you think he would try to shut this one punk up? That makes no sense at all.

[jgraz]

48. which part of his behavior justified arrest?

And what would you be saying if you had seen that same incident at an Ann Coulter event?

[jobycom]

57. Does that mean you admit you were wrong, since you changed the subject?

He barged to the front of the line. Go to an amusement park and try that, and security will throw you out of the park. If you resist arrest, they will arrest you. Go to a party and start screaming at the host, and they will call the cops who will ask you to leave. If you fight the cops, you will be arrested.

This isn't complicated. He was disrupting a public event after cutting in line, and after having harassed the cops outside. They were justified in asking him to leave. If he had a complaint, there are legal ways to handle that complaint, but charging the stage of a US Senator while screaming and acting aggressive isn't the way to do it. From that point on, he was a danger that had to be subdued. That's why he was tasered, not because he asked a question.

And I've already answered the Ann Coulter question--of course I'd support the cops if someone behaved like that at one of her events. Though admittedly, I might feel warmer towards the punk, in that case. I'd still feel he should have been arrested.

[jgraz]

62. The subject is the same as always -- what did he do to justify arrest?

And what did Kerry do to prevent it?

This isn't Six Flags, this is political discourse with a US Senator. Ask yourself why your first reaction was "hell yeah, arrest the fucker" and maybe you'll understand why democracy is dying in this country.

[thoughtanarchist]

3. The audience would be screened if it was W

There would be no one allowed into the venue if there were even the remote possibility that the person lacked absolute fealty to W.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

4. Thank You For Your Concern.

[jgraz]

10. Sad how many people on this board think this was just A-OK

I guess Nader was a lot more right than you'd like to admit.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

14. Thank You For Your Concern.

[jgraz]

25. Thanks for bringing your usual acumen to the party

It's always such a treat to read your posts, OMC. You add so much to the discussion.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

28. Thank You For Your Concern.

[hang a left]

6. What if I was 25 years younger.

What if I hadn't married that SOB.

What if Jerry Garcia really lived.

What if I hit the lotto tonight.

[Kelly Rupert]

8. I'd be saying the kid was an attention-whoring asshole.

Not sure about anyone else.

[jgraz]

12. Sure you would

I believe you, really I do.

Really.

[Kelly Rupert]

16. I've said similar things about many protesters.

I was against Code Pink's embarrassing display, as were many people here. I think they're attention-whorish, and they're at least ideologically motivated.

I argued against people who called it "civil disobedience." It wasn't, and neither is this. Simply holding a sign or yelling a slogan does not make disruption a good thing.

[Bonobo]

9. I love how NO ONE answers the question! Pretty telling, IYAM.

[jgraz]

11. Of course. It's "my party, right or wrong"

Apparently we've learned a lot from 6 years of Republican rule. :banghead:

[jpgray]

19. Yes, if people don't agree with you, clearly they must think whatever you say they think

What's your next line? "Some people don't think Iraqis can handle Democracy?" :eyes:

[EST]

15. Does make it hard to bash the nutters, doesn't it?

People are more alike than we wish we were, eh?

[ProSense]

20. That's because this is a bogus question

designed to imply that Kerry acted just like George Bush. This should never have been about Kerry, and Bush has nothing to do with my opinion. This isn't about free speech, it's about removing a self-describe heckler who became intentionally disruptive from an event. Remember that's separate from the taser incident. He was tasered (which I do not agree with) at the back of the room, kicking and screaming at that point, not at the microphone. He should have left quitely.

[Bonobo]

21. I think it is a fair question.

[jgraz]

43. No, it's designed to illustrate the selective support for democracy by some on DU

I don't think Kerry acted anywhere near how Bush would have acted. If that's our measure of civil behavior then we really have hit bottom.

[hang a left]

23. Well I will step up, since you are daring someone to...

There would be just as many fucking threads on page one of GD going on 3 days now. So not MUCH difference, just the names would be changed to protect the innocent and all....

But, if perhaps a DUer would look at the tape, and find that what was present was a disrupter looking for a gig; I would hope that they would be just as honest and call it as it was.

Next Question.

[blm]

13. In this scenario does Bush accomodate the questioner and agree to answer his question

in an effort to calm matters when the questioner shoved and pushed through those students waiting to exercise their right to speak out?

Does Bush also NOT DIRECT use of force against any dissenters beforehand, as Kerry never would?

Does Virginia Tech weigh in at all in this scenario where students are expecting a safe environment in which they can exercise their right to speak to Bush but a MAN who believes his right to speak is SUPERIOR to their rights and aggressively pushes his way through them?

That would make it alot easier to compare - especially given the complete histories of the two men - Kerry and Bush - one steeped in dissent and exposing secrecy and privilege as an open government advocate while Bush has a perfect record of stopping dissent forcefully and protecting secrecy and privilege by closing government.

[jgraz]

22. Yes, it was so kind of Kerry to answer the kid's question while he was being brutalized

I specifically like the part where the kid is on the floor being handcuffed and Kerry quips, "Unfortunately, he's not available to come up here and swear me in as president." That was a hoot.

As for shoving to the front of the line, several videos show he did nothing of the sort. This is just a lie put out by the Kerry camp in a pathetic attempt to deflect blame. Remember, he was the LAST QUESTIONER. How does that fit with pushing to the front of the line? And, even granting the point, how does jumping the queue merit arrest and tasering?

Does Bush also NOT DIRECT use of force against any dissenters beforehand, as he never would?

Yes, the NOT DIRECTING really vindicates him. Totally justifies him standing around watching a citizen be arrested for speaking. :eyes:


The VaTech argument is almost too shameful to acknowledge, except to say that, once again, we seem to be OK with sacrificing basic rights in exchange for an infinitesimal amount of added security.

[jpgray]

24. Have you read any of the multiple eyewitness accounts describing events pre-video?

Or is the video all you need to make your weighty judgments? No need for context, bloviations away!

[jgraz]

39. Nope I've read and listened to them -- all of them

I especially like the part where on witness makes it clear that the cops had no intention of letting the guy finish his question or letting him stay to hear the answer.

"but as he was attempting to ask his question. the officers themselves appeared to me to make themselves clear not allowing him to stay and hear the question and yelling into his ear."

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/politics/blog/2007/09/witness_defends_kerry_response.html

Not exactly the strongest defense in my opinion. Kerry listened to the question and when he didn't like what was being asked he let the cops take the guy.

[jpgray]

42. Bullshit. You didn't know about the shoving to the front of the line as of three posts ago

Now you're trying to cover your ass for making a pedantic judgmental post without any evidence beyond a videotape that deprives the incident of all context. Or did you pick and choose what eyewitness accounts to believe (despite almost all of them being clear on the pushing to front of line point), and then pretend you had never heard of important behavior preceding the actual question?

[jgraz]

44. It doesn't take that long to use The Google

Which eyewitness account justified his arrest, in your opinion? And why do you think Kerry allowed the cops to grab the kid once he'd asked his question?

[jpgray]

50. Again with the misrepresentation. The guy is a douchebag -and- the cops overreacted

It doesn't have to be one or the other. It's not a beautiful cause celebre of civil disobedience and it isn't a case of unprecedented authoritarian madness either. That you assume I feel the arrest is justified because I think the guy is a douchebag doesn't make much sense to me. The police behavior -wasn't- justified in my view.

[jgraz]

54. This is about what the cops did and what Kerry didn't do

And mostly about what Kerry didn't do. Even with all my disappointments in the guy, this is a new low.

I couldn't care less if the kid is a jerk or not. His rudeness is not germane to what happened here, and by bringing it up you imply that his behavior excuses the police reaction. Why else would you mention it?

[blm]

33. Kerry couldn't see or hear the MAN at that point - mics are used in an auditorium for a

reason. You do know that it is highly unlikely Kerry saw and heard what was happening at that point he was answering the question - especially since he has had some hearing loss since Nam - like most who served then have experienced.

You base your conclusion on the worst way to paint Kerry in this - completely factoring out the distance from stage and scuffle and other logistics, plus Kerry's ENTIRE HISTORY of dissenting, encouraging dissent and protecting dissent.

And factoring out the attention seeking history of the MAN who pushed and shoved the other students.

[jgraz]

37. And you know this how?

The guy was about 20 feet from Kerry when the cops grabbed him. And Kerry just watched. The guy was in the top of the auditorium, in a aisle, screaming to be let go, and you're trying to tell me Kerry couldn't hear or see that?

You seem to be trying to make excuses for Kerry no matter what the facts are. Kerry's history of dissent just makes the incident even more shameful.

And I don't care one bit about the guy's history as an "attention seeker" (your opinion). He did nothing that merited arrest, or even being touched by the cops.

[blm]

60. The cops were surrounding the guy and so were other students. You believe Kerry

saw the taser and didn't care - go ahead - you will believe ANY negative thing you want, no matter how far you have to reach.

[jgraz]

64. I believe what I saw. Kerry chose not to intervene or even speak on this kid's behalf

He may have missed that the kid was going to be tasered, but I can't imagine how he didn't realize what was happening once the kid started screaming. Meanwhile, he's making jokes about the kid "swearing him in on stage". What the fuck is wrong with him?

[blm]

68. You are obviously someone who has never spent much time on stage.

Think what you want - you have no sense of fairness when it comes to Kerry. As always. Yet, he's probably one of only a few lawmakers in DC who would step in front of a bullet for you or anyone on this board today.

[jgraz]

70. Wrong again

I spent most of my professional life on stage, starting at age 12. But what the hell does that have to do with anything???

Kerry would step in front of a bullet for us. Remind me, who has a warped view of John Kerry? He'd step in front of a bullet, but he won't fight for our votes? He'd step in front of a bullet but he won't challenge this president's power grabs?

Perhaps he only has courage when the bullets are flying. Admirable, but not exactly what we need right now. :shrug:

[blm]

73. He challenges Bush every day. And YES, this country DOES need people who

would put their lives on the line for the sake of other human beings - that would be a change.

If you think other lawmakers in DC have done more, than please NAME THOSE who HAVE a better record than Kerry on working to uncover, investigate and expose the government corruption of the powerful.

Do you even KNOW that the reason we were able to KNOW about the Aug6, 2001 PDB was because of Kerry taking Bush1 to court over documents Bush1 was withholding from Kerry's investigations then?

Take Kerry and his work out of the last 35 years of this nation's history and we'd be in our tenth year of fascism by now.

But hey - it's more important to you to get your hate for Kerry on any way you can.

And if you did spend time on stage you'd be FULLY AWARE that the view into the auditorium isn't a clear view and many times too dim to see anything. Time to hit the bottle of Feign-Feign.

[jgraz]

74. This is getting beyond ridiculous

The HOUSE LIGHTS WERE ON! When the House Light are on, you can see just about every spot in the auditorium. How do I know that? Because if you couldn't see every spot in the auditorium, then there would be spots in the auditorium that couldn't see the stage. And that would be one crappy auditorium.

You're grasping at straws at this point, and I'm getting bored. You should probably stay in the Kerry group if you want these kinds of fantasies accepted without question.

[blm]

75. Yes - all the eyewitnesses at the event are fantasizing along with me.

Kerry was speaking to an entire crowd - you are angry that he didn't focus like a laser on ONE MAN instead of the entire audience.

YOU hate Kerry - yet you STILL can't name one lawmaker who has effected this nation's real history more positively the last 3 decades. What does that say about YOUR perception - bored or otherwise?

[jgraz]

76. The eyewitnesses saw Kerry take a bullet for the kid?

:rofl:

I hope you and Senator McDreamy are very happy together.

[blm]

77. I hope your children don't know fascism.

And I hope your children choose to read the National Security Archives that details the work few are doing to stop that path to fascism, and risking their necks to preserve our nation's real history.

And I am not ROTFL.

[jgraz]

65. dup

[KurtNYC]

17. Why didn't Kerry spray Love Potion over the entire scene??

Or X-tacy? Why didn't Kerry make spider webs spray from his wrists? Why hasn't John Kerry cured cancer yet????

sarcasm aside, Your characterization of what happened is wrong. Kerry DID try to de-escalte the situation but there is a limit to what he can do. (and he did make a smirky joke btw, around 3mins in)

Unedited video (shaky as heck but clean audio):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIYTJ75U4NU&mode=related&search=

[Cetacea]

26. His not-so-secret voice thingie would've short-circuited?

They would have run him out of there like they failed to do during the 9/11 attacks. (Mostly out of fear of him speaking/performing during a spontaneous event).

[jobycom]

27. The kid was tasered before he was handcuffed, just to clarify.

I know some got the opposite impression, but he was tasered because the cops couldn't get the cuffs on him, and he had already wiggled free from four cops trying to hold him.

If it had been Bush, I'd still say the cops were justified, and Bush was a mass-murdering criminal asshole.

Now, let me ask you a hypo. What if it was Kerry on stage, but instead of waving a copy of Greg Palast's book, the punk was waving a copy of Ann Coulter's "Treason" and accusing Kerry of betraying America. He then is grabbed by two cops, breaks free from the cops, and rushes towards the stage, waving the book and shouting at Kerry. Would you still think the cops acted badly?

One more hypo. Let's say all that happened, and rather than detain him, the cops let him run around and scream and wave his arms. Suddenly he pulled a gun from the book and shot Kerry. Would the cops have been right to let him run around and scream?

Not pretend you're a cop. You are at a function with some bigwig politician you sort of know, but don't know all the political nuances of the debate. Some punk has been making trouble in the hallway, has been threatened with arrest already, and suddenly grabs a mike from in front of a long line of people who had been waiting patiently to ask questions. He starts shouting loudly, and making statements that, even though you don't understand the full nuances (I mean, how many people really know Palast who aren't political junkies?), you can tell they are confrontational. The audience starts booing and getting upset. You try to grab the man to escort him from the room before he causes more trouble (and because he cut in line and was stealing time from everyone else). He breaks free from you and another cop--thus defying all the authority society gives to cops--and he rushes to the stage shouting insults and waving a book over his head. He gets pretty close, too.

What would you do, then? Let him go to see how close he got?

If Bush had been on the stage, I'd still say the cops did what they had to do. Which, interestingly, is the same thing the little punk told the cops--that he wasn't mad at that, that they were just doing their jobs.

[nini]

30. You beat me to it.. What if it was Kerry and the protester was a neo-con?

Good post

[jgraz]

35. The cops should have never had their hands on him in the first place

That's what caused the problem. He showed no indication that he was going to do anything but walk away when his mic was cut. But we'll never know since the cops were on him as soon as he stopped speaking.

And yes, I'd be just as pissed if it had been a freeper. No question at all.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jgraz]

45. Yes, "rushing the stage" That's exactly what he did

Who's misrepresenting the facts here? :eyes:

[jobycom]

58. You. Watch the video.

When he breaks free he charges towards the stage. Cops have a "21 foot rule," because that's the distance a person can cover before a cop can draw a weapon and fire. Anyone within 21 feet of them or whomever they are protecting is within the realm where a cop will shoot. I don't know if he got that close or not, but he charged down the aisle towards the stage. I'm sure you can find video of the incident around somewhere--watch it, since you seem to not know what happened.

[jgraz]

61. What crap. He only moved toward the stage after he had been grabbed

You present it as a justification for his arrest. The cops were already on him, one with his weapon drawn, before he tried to get them to let him go. Take another look.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=8_ooyzMf07Y

I'm sure the Rodney King jury could've used folks like you.

[madrchsod]

29. bush would do the same as kerry--let the police do their job.

well... if it was bush , cops would be like this guy

[jgraz]

36. The cops' job is to arrest people for asking questions?

They should have never put their hands on him.

[onenote]

31. What if was John Kerry on that stage in FLorida and the questioner

was a freeper asking him about his purple hearts and his service in Vietnam. Or if it was Hillary Clinton on stage and it was a freeper asking her about her complicity in the "murder" of Vince Foster. Or if was John Edwards and it was a freeper going on and on about his haircut and big house? Or if it was Barack Obaman and it was a freeper giving a speech under the guise of asking Obaman about the claim that he was educated at a muslim school etc. etc.

If this freeper had jumped in front of other folks in line and demanded a chance to be heard before others, and then went off on some diatribe/leading questions spiel, it wouldn't upset me if his mike was cut off and he was escorted out so that the proceedings could continue.

[jgraz]

34. I would be just as pissed. Absolutely no question

But it seems, you have to either approve of the questioner or dislike the speaker in order to support the first amendment. Interesting.

[ProSense]

46. Your logic is flawed, this had nothing to do with the first amendment

Kerry was answering his question. This isn't about free speech, it's about removing a self-described heckler who became intentionally disruptive from an event. Remember that's separate from the taser incident. He was tasered at the back of the room, kicking and screaming at that point, not at the microphone, and not by Kerry. The University of Florida police have nothing to do with the content of the conversation between Kerry and the heckler. If the heckler had left quietly or hadn't been tasered the free speech issue wouldn't even be part of the discussion. Kerry's answers would have been heard and the kid would still have been dragged out of the room (a police action).

[jgraz]

52. We'll never know, since the police grabbed him before the conversation ended

The incident escalated as soon as the cops put their hands on the kid. Kerry reacted as if nothing was going on. Why didn't he ask them to just let him sit or walk out?

I think it's because he didn't like the questions the kid was asking. I've seen him get prickly before in interviews when his 2004 capitulation is raised. You can hear his tone change as soon as he realizes what the kid is asking him.

Again, where is being rude punishable by arrest?

[acmavm]

32. If he acted like an out of control lunatic and bush** was on the

stage I do believe gunfire would have been involved.

[RestoreGore]

40. They would be calling that student a Patriot

And they know it. Regardless of the student's demeanor it was a despicable action on the part of the police, and those there with the power to intervene in any way they could should have done so.

[jgraz]

66. there's no question in my mind that you're right

Yet, here we have a knee-jerk reaction in favor of authoritarian power. I seem to remember a time when The Left's knees jerked in the opposite direction. We've really fallen quite a ways in this country. Sad.

[cali]

47. What if it was bush on stage

at a school forum and some kid busted the line, grabbed an open mike and started rambling on about why he wasn't doing more to protect us, and bombing the shit out of Iran, and deporting Muslims?

What if, after not letting the chimp respond, he refused to relinquish the mike and let those who had been standing in line, ask their questions; and was then told by police he was under arrest. What if he resisted arrest by striking out at the officers?

bush, shockingly, tries to calm things down.

My scenario is a much closer comparison to what happened.

What if you got a clue?

That would be shocking indeed.

Clarification: I Am not defending the use of the taser.

[jgraz]

51. Are you just making this up or do you have something to back up your claims?

"refused to relinquish the mike"

He said he had two more questions to ask, and walked away as soon as the mic was cut. Did you see something different?


"was then told by police he was under arrest"

I heard nothing of the sort, even in the close-up video. What I saw was two police officers grab him as soon as he turned from the mic and one officer draw his weapon. He asks "are you arresting me" and one officer says "we're not". Did you see something different?


"he resisted arrest by striking out at the officers"

I must have missed the part where he took a swing at the cops. Or do you count "not wanting to be grabbed" as "striking out"?


"tries to calm things down"

Yeah, that joke while the kid was on the floor being handcuffed was a real kneeslapper. I felt much calmer after that.


"What if you got a clue?"

Well, I just got a clue that you like to make shit up to support your arguments. Was there something else you were trying to convey?

[cali]

56. here you go.

A long thread at 'kos from JK's perspective.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/9/18/125041/427

Witness Interview:

Witness defends Kerry response to Taser incident
by Frank James


Some have questioned Sen. John Kerry's actions during the now infamous incident at the University of Florida in which student Andrew Meyer was eventually Tasered by a campus police officer. Why didn't Kerry do more to intercede?

For instance, he could've, in that stentorian voice of his, strongly asked the police to stop manhandling Meyer. He could've even pre-empted the police before the tussle started by asking them to back off Meyer. He might've mollified Meyer by saying "Let's talk after the event."

An eyewitness to the entire episode, Clarissa Jessup, indicates Kerry did try to deescalate the matter, and did just about tell the police to stand down.

Here's a transcript of what she said in an interview that was shown on CNN. It includes CNN anchor's lead in to and tag on the video of Jessup's interview.
http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/politics/blog/2007/09/witness_defends_kerry_response.html

Details of the fracas:

After Meyer repeatedly and loudly refused to walk away, two officers took him by the arms. Kerry can be heard saying, "That's all right, let me answer his question."

Audience members applauded, though it was difficult to tell whether it was for the officers' action or Kerry's remark. The audience for the most part sat quietly and watched the fracas.

Meyer struggled for several seconds as up to four officers tried to remove him from the room. He screamed for help and tried to break away from officers with his arms flailing, then was forced to the ground and ordered to stop resisting.

As Kerry told the audience he will answer the student's "very important question," Meyer yelled at the officers to release him, crying out, "Don't Tase me, bro," just before he was shocked. He was led from the room, screaming, "What did I do?"

An officer, however, said in the police report that Meyer's "demeanor completely changed once the cameras were not in sight" and that he was "laughing" and "lighthearted" on the way to jail.

http://www.mediainfo.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003642743

From the incident report:

The report details the events leading up to Meyer’s arrest, saying that Meyer was in line to ask a question of Sen. Kerry when it was decided that no more questions would be allowed.

Meyer continued down the aisle toward Sen. Kerry angrily, according to police, saying he wanted the senator to answer his question because he had been waiting for two hours.

Though Sen. Kerry directed that Meyer be allowed to ask his question, police reported that Meyer did not ask any specific question and instead “badgered” the senator, and at one point said something about President Clinton being impeached over a sexual act.

At that point, police reported that ACCENT Director Max Tyroler turned off Meyer’s microphone and asked police to escort him out of the auditorium, saying, “He had said enough,” according to Officer Mallo’s
http://www.thehotjoints.com/2007/09/19/police-report-on-taser-boy-reveals-very-different-story/

Not that you provided jackfuckingshit in the way of evidence for your little scenario. Not surprising coming from you that you'd indignantly demand evidence that contradicted your version.

[jgraz]

59. So, in other words, you're reading second-hand accounts rather than seeing for yourself

And do I really need to teach you how to use youtube? Are you that inept with your browser that I have to give you a direct link? OK, go watch it for yourself and maybe you'll have something of value to add to the debate.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=8_ooyzMf07Y

[cali]

69. that's just idiotic

yes I watched it. No, it doesn't tell the whole story. What happened before is also important. Witness accounts are important.

[jgraz]

71. Changing the subject

You weren't talking about what happened before the video, you were speaking with authority on what happened during the video -- and telling me to get a clue.

Care to retract any of that now that you've actually seen it for yourself?

[Enrique]

49. many people criticize the Code Pink demonstrators

and the Code Pink demonstrators are more credible than this student, imo. Because of their age, and their tactics.

[Kelly Rupert]

55. Never get in the way of someone who thinks they've found a clever universality.

They're not apt to admit it was unfounded.

[jgraz]

63. It's well founded. You're just a bit more authoritarian than most.

You seem to think the fact that you support arrest of all "inconvenient" dissenters helps your argument. It doesn't.

[lpbk2713]

53. Boosh only speaks to crowds of wealthy and influential rethuglicans by invitation only.

Sorry, but your premise would never happen because Kerry was addressing mostly young Dems.

[LSK]

67. then the kid tasered would have been in a free speech zone 5 miles away

Next!

[0rganism]

72. an interesting scenario, but you left out an important question

First, my answer. In the current situation, some of us think Kerry did all he could, some of us think he should have done more to intervene, some of us think the "kid" should have been subdued and/or arrested regardless. That's an expected response pattern to a morally and legally ambiguous situation, people can and will disagree without being traitors or disrupters or hypocrites or idiots, although they too will likely play a part.

If it were Bush up there instead of Kerry, we would probably be split along similar lines, even at DU. We might harbor different opinions of the speaker and the motivations of the questioner, but I'd expect our opinions of the police actions would track without too much variation, because those are not a reflection of how we view the politics of the speaker, but rather a broader conception of balancing protection of audience speech vs protection of an invited speaker. That much is easy to deduce. There would be a difference in the degree of unexpectedness, since Bush is clearly an authoritarian despot who establishes a rarefied bubble of screened loyal support for his "public" appearances, whereas Kerry is a former protester himself who seems comfortable enough in a heterogeneous environment.

What would be most surprising to me in the hypothetical is that the agitator was even allowed within a mile of Bush. There'd be a lot of angry words for the Secret Service detail, if that happened.

The question you could have asked is, "What would the agenda setters be saying?"

Would the mass media be casting any aspersions on the integrity of Herr Bush for not intervening to stop such a tasering? Or would they be comparing the impertinent questioner to John Hinckley Jr.?

We should also explore that angle.

[HuffleClaw]

78. exactly. n/t