RE: this UF taser thing. The outrage should not be about who's event it was...

[Skidmore]

or who had questions. The questions that should arise from this have more to do with a highly fearful society which believes that it is entitled to a risk-free and homogenized existence, an overly political and reactive police/military environment, endless charged rhetoric from the political quarter, and a media willing to serve as a megaphone for fearmongering. Have we reached the outer limits of straining the First and Second Amendments? Have we crossed the line as a society? Handing your rights over without dissent is not acceptable. Right now I believe the structures of our society are complicit in tearing it down. Either we fight to preserve those freedoms, even when we do not agree with the individual trying to exercise those rights, or we just roll over and be done with it.

[endarkenment]

1. The issue is why are the police in control of a public political forum?

Why were police even in the room? Why did the police think it was their responsibility to control who was speaking? When did the police start attending political forums on college campuses?

[RangerRK]

5. Whatever happened to "to serve and protect"

"When did the police start attending political forums on college campuses?"

DAMN GOOD QUESTION!!

[Kingshakabobo]

10. When did the police start attending political forums on college campuses?

Security for a sitting US Senator and former Presidential candidate?

And it wasn't the police calling the shots. There was a man in a suit standing behind the police and the bully with the microphone. He's the guy who made the "cut" gesture before they moved to escort him. One would assume he was an official or some type of host.....

But hey, if "the police think it was their responsibility to control who was speaking" fits your argument better, why bother with facts?

[onenote]

16. when were cops not present as security when significant public figures appear?

Hell, I recently was at a private party on Capitol Hill where one of the guests was a member of the COngressional leadership. A plainclothes secret service officer stayed in the foyer of the house the entire party.

No one can really be so naieve to think that there wouldn't be police on hand at an event attended by a prominent national figure and former candidate for president. And from what I can tell, most of the cops that ended up involved in the incident weren't in the room at first. (Clearly at least two were -- the two that were standing behind Meyers, but since there isn't video of the event prior to Meyers questions, its impossible to know whether they were up by the microphone before he barged in or whether they arrived around the time he did.)

[endarkenment]

17. Oh it was the secret service who tasered the rude kid?

I didn't know that.

[onenote]

18. c'mon, as non-sequiturs go, that's not even a good one

THe point (which apparently only you couldn't get) is that security, whether secret service, state troopers, university cops, are going to be present when public figures are making appearances within their jurisdiction.

[endarkenment]

20. sequitur

"Hell, I recently was at a private party on Capitol Hill where one of the guests was a member of the COngressional leadership. A plainclothes secret service officer stayed in the foyer of the house the entire party."

Oh and while we are at it, protecting Kerry is fine. Interfering in a public political forum, not so fine. Kerry was under no threat.

[onenote]

21. I agree that the cops should've let Meyers rave on for a while longer.

But that's a different issue from whether it was inappropriate for the cops to be present at the event. (responding to comment about why cops were "attending" the forum).

[blm]

2. Weigh the rights the students had who agreed to exercise their rights on campus

in a safe environment and who, since Virginia Tech, probably wake up every day significantly more cautious about erratic and aggressive behavior shown to them.

Meyer judged his right to speak to be superior to those of the students waiting ahead of him.

[Skidmore]

3. I believe I was also getting at that as well.

The dynamics that created this situation are multifaceted and we as a people need to decide how much fear and power to tolerate in this society if we are going to maintain our rights. I'm sick of people quivering in their boots and whining about terra and safety then arguing for arming people to the teeth to be "safe." I'm sick of people jerking to attention at the sight of gold braiding and service caps of any variety...pretty soon we'll be thanking bellhops for their service to the nation. We need to collectively get a grip and to be willing to defend our rights and our nation on our own soil and not feed a group of people in need into the maws of the gods of greed and war.

[ljm2002]

15. "...pretty soon we'll be thanking bellhops"...

..."for their service to the nation".

:rofl:

Good one! If that's not a DUzy I don't know what is!

[Kingshakabobo]

19. Hey, I never heard a bellhop scream "what the fuck are you lookin at."

[in_cog_ni_to]

4. I vote for a police state.

Lets be done with it....Freedom and Liberty just isn't worth fighting for.:eyes:

[RangerRK]

6. Conform. Consume.

Don't think. Obey.

[Vincardog]

7. The issue is whether or not we have a drama queen provoking the police into stupid actions.

[endarkenment]

9. Rain of terror?

[Vincardog]

14. your right

[Bitwit1234]

8. What about all the people jailed because they wore

T Shirt's with messages bush didn't like. How about someone being kicked out of his meeting because they had a bumper sticker saying something about the war. And on and on.....I remember some republican guy WHO HAD AN APPROVED TICKET to a bush meeting in West Virginia, who asked a question that bush wouldn't answer. He not only got kicked out of the meeting his boss fired him. Where's the justice about free speech

[Skidmore]

11. We're talking about the First Amendment, right?

And we're talking about fear and propaganda used to rationalize the use of excessive force to suppress free speech.

[Zodiak]

12. I'm seeing a lot of those kinds of arguments

....the "what if?" arguments.

I think that is all based on fear, when what they are seeing in front of them was a vocal and emotional speaker....trying to speak. They instead react like he is potentially Sirhan Sirhan (who was quiet, btw before he blew RFK away).

He posed no threat other than his disruption. His non-complaince could just as easily have been bourne of reflex and fear than "attention-whoredom"....the twisting of his arms and the "from behind" approach of the cops made that issue unclear. If that is standard procedure, standard procedure is wrong.

Out of all of this....the consensus I am seeing is that the tazing was wrong (which I agree with), the guy was acting like an asshole (which I agree with), the cops used excessive force (which I agree with), and that Kerry had nothing to do with this (which I agree with).

At dispute is:

The guy deserved it for resisting arrest (which I disagree with)
Kerry should have done more and is therefore complicit (which I disagree with)
The guy had a right to ask his questions (which I agree with once he was let into the room)

[melody]

13. The issue is why are we only hearing about this when a Democrat is involved

Which is why I'm suspicious of those complaining too loudly.

When has there EVER been this many threads when a GOP-led thug force roughed up someone?