How did we get to this point in this country?

[babylonsister]

Today was a bad day, and I'm not blaming the Dems.

How can it be acceptable that a man who started an 'illegal occupation' and made his friends rich while getting thousands of Americans killed and possibly millions of Iraqis, and assorted other people from many countries, have support to:

* deny habeas corpus, (even The Nation blames it on the Senate, not the rethugs):
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/notion?pid=234404

* deny soldiers a right and probably a dream for many to do their duty for however long it takes, but then to come home and get to bond with their family after being gone for so long, for an equal amount of time? I realize the war is important to these clowns, until it isn't, but how could they do this to these soldiers?

What game is being played? The majority of Americans want us out, but we're being ignored.

I've heard that the rethugs are going to 'soften their stance' on war after the primaries. How many will die between now and then, and how is that acceptable?

Why don't the lives of people trump political aspiratons? And I'm talking about politicians, the ones who are getting away with it without question. And why is this acceptable? How did we get here?

Finally, the media. We are being played by corps, I guess, or the ignorance of Americans. The media claims it's fronting what people want (OJ, Brittany, any-damn-thing but what's important); no one asked me.

[swag]

1. I like turtles

[2rth2pwr]

33. Ha!

[swag]

48. He rocks so hard. Now he's on some local TV commercials in Portland.

One feels the need to post the classic moment:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMNry4PE93Y

[2rth2pwr]

50. Another

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pbfs2lYM2sQ

[partylessinOhio]

2. You have to blame it on the Supreme Court when they took away our

democracy and stopped the counting of ballots for no less than the presidency.

:cry:

[Vincardog]

3. The elections are rigged. The courts are rigged. The media is bought and paid for by the Corporation

Our job has been reduced to being consumers and paying for the frauds.

[babylonsister]

12. People aren't 'rigged'. The refusal of the GOP to accept that people are dying

because of * until it's politically expedient for them is appalling. Just disgusting. When did the traits of a human with compassion go out the window? Especially when a majority of this population doesn't agree?

[Vincardog]

43. reread post number 3

[tabasco]

4. 1, Greed 2. Ignorance 3. Apathy

I think those are the top three in the correct order.

[babylonsister]

17. PNAC politics might qualify, but that's a good list. nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. Read German history, this is a bad copy of that

[MadMaddie]

19. Thank you I was going to say the same thing.

This country has been brought to it's knees by Traitors to the Constitution.

[babylonsister]

20. No. I cannot agree. That's how my denial goes. nt

[Webster Green]

6. Here's how we got where we are today..

[defendandprotect]

34. Teddy Roosevelt called for getting corporations out of our elections -- !!!

That's how far back this process/fight goes -- !!!

I think we're all right now suffering overload from this political situation --
we expected the Democrats to at least be ending the war --

On the other hand, you have to take a short rest and get back at it --
it's going to be a LONG battle if you want to save the nation and the planet.

We need to make the other side depressed -- and try to understand how big this battle is --
you're fighting capitalism, patriarchy, corporate-fascism . . .
These are HUGE things -- !!!

[liberal renegade]

7. BFEE!

SCOTUS bought and paid for by the BFEE....

[ixion]

8. one agonizing step at a time, unfortunately

it's very painful for anyone who happens to be paying attention. :cry:

[L. Coyote]

9. It is part of our culture, the pursuit of the Almighty dollar, greed, corruption,

and all that follows in its wake, like stealing the Presidency.

We also have a system where a lot of power is placed in the hands of the few, few politicos, few bankers, etc. The founders did not foresee a President of a country with 300,000,000 people spanning a continent. How can we expect a GW to be capably in charge of this?

In some ways, we have grown on an organizational level, beyond our capacity on an intellectual level, becoming a headless monster, regulated by the sum of individual decisions--like where I want to drive to today--instead of societal decisions like should we curb pollution to prevent childhood asthma.

[bdamomma]

10. we are going to learn the hard way, Germany did and so did

many other countries, a revolution perhaps??? to restore our rights, but the enemy is within this country and for some strange reason I believe it is only us who will change this whole sickening situation.

[mrcheerful]

11. It started with Nixon and the law and order platform, which were code words for racist

actions by government. Then Nixon made america a welfare state by expanding the welfare program and starting the SSI program. Which then allowed Ronnie the Lier Reagan to claim that welfare queens were destroying america as well as labor unions being the cause of high inflation rates, after all both welfare queens and union members were living off the fat of the land according to Reagan. Those that neither were on welfare or were in unions bought the big lie. Which started us on the road to personal greed and the shop aholic credit card user. What we are seeing today is the results of 50 years of republican assaults on the american citizens reasoning powers. Remember also Nixon and Reagan also started the down fall of public education. Nixon used the Black Panthers and the hippie movement to scare the american public into accepting his new law and order powers. Reagan used the fear of commies to promote the republican power grab, under both Shrubs fear also was used to get the masses to approve of less freedoms for the illusion of safety. TV played a big part in all of this, first they promoted fear, then told the dumb to be happy and go shopping.

[Vilis Veritas]

14. Dick Nixon Before He Dicks You.

To bad nobody was paying attention.

No Fear.

[babylonsister]

21. Wow. So Nixon was the reason. Thanks. nt

[OHdem10]

13. There was once a effort to avoid Tyranny by the Majority--

now we in Majority are constantly being "oppressed" by
a minority(War Lovers)

[Vilis Veritas]

15. Fear.

There is only unhealthy fear. The fear that causes inaction.

No Fear.

[pattmarty]

16. Can you say Ronald Reagan?

[fishnfla]

18. television and campaign ads

fund raising took over vote raising

goes back to the jfk nixon debates

[TwilightGardener]

22. I don't know, but I have been bummed out all evening. Seems like we're just

stuck on stupid in this country. Congress is paralyzed, and can't stop President Godzilla from stomping on other countries (thanks Bill Maher!).

[babylonsister]

23. 'Stuck on stupid'. I agree. I know it at times in the early a.m., on CSPAN, or

if I ever decide to talk to a few people again. x(

[sandnsea]

28. Not just politically either

I have not had one interaction go smoothly in so long I can't remember. The grocery store, yeah that works okay. But any kind of situation where you need paper work, they forget to send something, or forget to ask for something, or the rules get changed. Doesn't matter what industry it is, and it sure isn't limited to Indian customer service either.

We went to get chicken and corn on the cob last night. KFC had no corn, at 5:00. If that isn't bad enough, they put 4 chicken legs in my husbands box and called that his meal. It's like that every friggin' place. I paid for a termite inspection and the guy didn't go up the stairs to the attic. I found out today that a committee, that meets monthly, is going to decide whether I can change doctors at my clinic.

I don't know what the hell is going on. But stuck on stupid sure does seem to fit.

[TwilightGardener]

41. Well, it does often seem like nobody does their jobs right anymore--

my husband and I bitch about this all the time--good to know others feel the same way. Just can't count on anybody anymore.

[autorank]

24. Thanks for the link. I went and K*R'd it!!!

[babylonsister]

26. Hay, I was finally 'talking' and you are the only one who got it.

Thanks, autorank!

[autorank]

51. ...and that's my "sister" :)

[sandnsea]

25. pot and prozac n/t

[babylonsister]

27. Goddam legalities. Do you really think the country is stoned to the

max, and the rest of it doesn't care? Ergo, if you're stoned or doped, why care?
Heh.

[sandnsea]

29. More than we might think

I read a theory about the dotcom bubble, that so many people were on anti-depressants that they didn't heed the normal warnings. That's why the bubble got so much bigger than previous bubbles. I don't know if it's true, but when I look around, it could be. I know a woman in my town who used to get upset over various local shenanigans. The doctor put her on medication and now she just raves about it, and nothing that goes on upsets her anymore either.

:shrug:

[babylonsister]

32. I can understand being 'stoned' at certain times, but not through your

whole life. So the drugs that are 'saving' our population are making people immune to reality. Sigh. I like to get high but not at the expense of losing my perceptions. I'm lucky though; I don't have many distractions to blame it on.

[sandnsea]

35. Well I don't think everybody does

But you know, I live in Oregon. Things are greener here. :rofl:

[babylonsister]

38. I'm visitiing! Green is my favorite color! nt

[The Vinyl Ripper]

42. All the dopers I know lean liberal..

Smokin' dope often makes you see things from a different perspective.

One minor reason that is still illegal..

[sandnsea]

46. I didn't say anything about ones' politics

I was referring more to the passivity.

[The Vinyl Ripper]

47. Dopers aren't necessarily passive either..

Chicago, 1968

Who the fuck do you think was demonstrating in the streets?

It damn sure wasn't the straights..

[sandnsea]

49. It's a different time

I don't think the anger generally gets to that point anymore. Across the board, across the country. I really think there are enough people who get upset at the state of events, and then go get anti-depressants or smoke a joint, and then it all goes away. Obviously not everybody, because there was still quite a number of people in DC. I just think it could be part of the reason we accept tabloid cablenews and don't react to the loss of habeas, etc etc.

[The Vinyl Ripper]

30. One answer, or one part of the answer..

All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a condition to which they are quickly addicted.

-Frank Herbert

[defendandprotect]

31. the McCarthy Era was an attack on the ideals of democracy . . ..

And the New Deal, of course, which had been a new beginning.

Look at the Constitution -- it was a compromise with slave owners -- the elite.

Democracy wasn't an immediate threat to the elite . . . they knew they had time.

The foundation of this nation is based on genocide, enslavement, theft --

The compromise set us up for the Civil War -- and huge wealth grew out of that war.

So -- there has been a long standing attack on the Constitution and "democracy"/equality for all --
back to the beginning.

The elites were favored in land grants and breaking down the nation's natural resources.

This has been an ongoing process -- and I think we're nearing the end of it --

If you want freedom, you have to rid yourselves of capitalism and corporatism and patriarchy --
and it takes a lot of educating of the public to do that.

And, especially, corporate control of our elections and media --

And, hurry up because our planet can't survive very much more of this exploitation -- !!!

[babylonsister]

37. Wow, that's a different viewpoint. The Constitution was a compromise?

Genocide, enslavement, And the Civil War started this mess? Hmmm. Let me think about that.

[leftofthedial]

36. 2000 was the latest in a series of coups

all that rah-rah America crap is a joke.

[babylonsister]

39. Well, yeah. Nice to see you, too.

:D

[defendandprotect]

40. If you think about it, how blatant and overt that coup was . . . . there is no "free press" left ---

and "the myth of a free press died with the coup on JFK."

[The Vinyl Ripper]

44. There was an attempted right wing coup well before JFK..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler

In 1934, Butler came forward and reported to the U.S. Congress that a group of wealthy pro-Fascist industrialists had been plotting to overthrow the government of President Franklin D. Roosevelt in a military coup. Even though the congressional investigating committee corroborated most of the specifics of his testimony, no further action was taken.


Sound familiar?

[AuntPatsy]

45. I don't want to say it, I honestly don't but far too many of us, myself

included honestly believed that the dems could and would be able to get this country back under control, I guess I thought they would come together more and stand up against the tyranny and what I always assumed would occur, blackmailing and fear tactics that would ultimately be used against them, fear can be a powerful weapon I guess, because I think that it is fear and nothing more that has kept them in power. I feel like fear has been thier main weapon against any and all who dares stand in the way.

[MadHound]

52. It is called the two party/same corporate master system of government

It won't change until we have publicly funded elections. Take corporate money, and corporate influence out of our elections and you will break the corporate stranglehold on our government. Until this happens(or a party like the Greens takes power), all we will continue to see is an ongoing mummers play of good cop/bad cop to divert the masses while we continue to slide down the slope.

[BlooInBloo]

53. A mean, stupid, and bigoted electorate.