Wheelchair-Bound Woman Dies After Being Shocked With Taser 10 Times

[Nutmegger]

CLAY COUNTY, Fla. -- A Clay County woman's family said it's seeking justice after their loved one died shortly after being shocked 10 times with Taser guns during a confrontation with police.

The family of 56-year-old Emily Delafield said it would take the Green Cove Springs Police Department to court, according to a WJXT-TV report.

In April 2006, officers with the police department said they were called to a disturbance at a home in the 400 block of Harrison Street just before 5 p.m.

In a 911 call made to the Green Cove Springs, Delafield can be heard telling a dispatcher that she believed she was in danger:

Full article: http://www.local6.com/news/14147512/detail.html

[jgraz]

1. Damn. What question did she ask Kerry?

:hide:

[jonnyblitz]

95. ..

On edit: nevermind. :D i don't want to be tacky and laugh since somebody died. :hi:

[NewYorkerfromMass]

100. Damn. Do you have to confuse the issue of why he was arrested?

The guy in Florida was an idiot. He deserved to be dragged out of the forum but not tasered.

[jgraz]

106. Oh, he was arrested for being an idiot

He was RUDE, he asked uncomfortable questions. I'm SO glad the police were there to protect us all from him.

What, exactly, is your legal basis for deciding that he "deserved" to be dragged out of the forum? He asked a question that lasted about 90 seconds. I've been at forums where people have held the mic for 5 minutes or more before they were cut off. None of them were ever dragged out by the police.

[Bucky]

119. This is just typical thinking of you Bill of Right extremists.

You all loosy-goosy reinterpret the First Amendment, which is about protecting political speech, to mean that anybody at any time can just say whatever the hell they think about any old political topic just because it occurs to them to think that way. Sorry, but that's not what our forefathers died for at Valley Forge while writing that Bill of Rights. It's about It's about the right to speak on political topics, but not just any topic they want. Pfff. Only about responsible topics, the kinds of stuff politicians and leaders want us to talk about, like how great the flag looks in the glow of a sunrise or how free we are from oppression in this greatest country on earth.

God Save the King!

[varkam]

2. WTF?!

That's so fucked up.

[Suich]

3. You mean, after you fire a taser at someone, and the probes are sticking in them,

you can continue to shock them again and again? For some reason, I thought they had to be "recharged" after each contact.

I hope the family wins a really big lawsuit.

[ManiacJoe]

18. The electricity will continue as long as the trigger is held

until the battery is dead.

Most units work in two modes. (1) barbed darts (fired by compressed air?) connected by wires to the "gun" body, (2) direct contact with the "gun" body.

[AuntPatsy]

4. So many of these stories seem to be coming out of Florida, what is wrong with that state?

[sandnsea]

9. The 5 year old was Florida too

This is a police policy problem. Somebody needs to be comparing rules of engagement, or whatever other policies, between Florida and states that don't have this stuff going on every other day. Getting off on free speech garbage distracts from the opportunity to address the real issue - Florida's excessively punitive law and order system.

[AuntPatsy]

11. I would have to agree with you....

[PDenton]

31. Florida needs that law and order

This state is overflowing with criminals, dirtbags, and lowlifes. Some of these people, you just can't play nice with. They are ruining the state for everybody. I don't have alot of sympathy for most of these types, they get what is comming to them.

[sandnsea]

36. I have a different world view than you

I think the attitude you just expressed feeds the culture that creates the criminals. I think it's the problem, especially in Florida and Texas, not the solution.

[ManiacJoe]

38. Given the message he responded to,

I think he just forgot the sarcasm tags.

[PDenton]

48. No...

... sorry, the people who commit most crimes down here in Florida are usually not having warm fuzzies and only mean because the Man won't stop leaving them alone. They are often the grabby types without respect for other people or themselves. Dirtbags of all stripes. Maybe some of them were abused as kids, come from broken homes... frankly I don't care. When they commit crimes against me and people I know, that is real... and I just want them to go away. You can wail and shed tears for their rotting carcasses, but not me.

Maybe the Muslim fundamentalists have the right idea about crime. A guy without arms can't exactly steal again, now can he? Sounds injust, but what is most unjust- letting good people live in fear all because criminals have no conscience? To me that is worse than dealing harshly with lawbreakers.

[sandnsea]

49. If that's how you like living

It's not that way other places. But if you like living in a culture that proves people will become the exact dirt bags society expects them to become, well I guess you're in heaven. Good luck with that.

[PDenton]

51. how would you fight crime, just curious?

We live in a nice neigborhood, at least it used to be considered nice. 3 months ago every car parked in the street had their tires slashed. A murder happened only about 4 miles away, a person was gunned down in a closed, gated parking lot of an apartment complex. Should we give these people Care Bears and ask them to pretty please stop killing and breaking things that don't belong to them?

[smoogatz]

67. We live in a nice neighborhood, too.

But last weekend a couple of drunk college students vandalized one of my neighbor's flower pots at three a.m. So I went outside in my pajamas with my Bushmaster 3000 and shot them both through the head. Problem solved.

[sandnsea]

103. First things first

End the death penalty. Stop all the voting shenanigans, restore felon's voting rights. Fund and fix the child protective services system. Implement real treatment in prisons instead of the stupid phony christian bullshit. Quadruple the prosecution of hate crimes, write the laws if you don't have them. Create a sense of fundamental fairness across the board. Watch your crime rate plummet.

[PDenton]

109. ok... at least those are some suggestions

However, I don't believe most of it will reduce crime in any meaningful way on their own. I see crime as being caused mostly by poor upbringing and a society that doesn't care about people anymore, low value on human capital. And heck, lets not take choice out of the equation too, on some level people choose to act in a way that they do, or they are just slaves to their circumstances, which is even worse. However, once a person turns to a life of crime, it is very hard to rid them of it, and I'm all for protecting society from criminals.

I'm surprised you'ld be against "christian bullshit". It seems to me religious proscriptions against criminal/immoral acts and the values in most religions promotes a eusocial outlook on life and corresponding behaviors. Hence, religion in prison may be very helpful.

If you don't punish crime, eventually what happens is people of weaker intellect and will see less reason to be a "good person". People struggle through life every day without commiting violent acts against people and property, and yet they often recieve no tangible rewards, so it is perfectly legitimate to get retribution upon criminals who harm people physically or financially. The strong and evil should not be able to prey upon the weak and good, to paraphrase Hammurabi. Hence, locking somebody up wheather or not they "get better" is perfectly reasonable.

[sandnsea]

111. low value on human(s)

I will omit "capital" in order to highlight that phrase.

That's what your attitude exhibits. Low Value On Humans. Everything you've prescribed perpetuates a society that doesn't care about people. It's acceptable to throw away entire groups of people. Half the population can't afford to see a doctor and we have presidential candidates saying they just need a sense of "individual responsibility".

I believe in tough consequences for harmful behavior. But it has to be even-handed and fair, with real opportunity to address personal difficulties. Mental illnesses, disabilities, addictions, mental deficits, lives of trauma. Church is not mental health treatment.

For those who have been permanently broken through either a dysfunctional society or mental illness beyond their control; there is no need for a punitive attitude either. The sex offender is usually a grown up sexual assault victim. Why can't we consider the untreated victimization and provide a little compassion, even though we can't let them on the streets again.

We don't have to have a seething hatred and suspicion of others right underneath the surface. It is driving this society crazier than it already was.

[PDenton]

112. society should show compassion to those who deserve it first

People who lost their homes in hurricanes, floods, and fires deserve our compassion. People who are raped or the victims of brutal crimes deserve our compassion.

People who steal, harm, or kill... I don't think so. They can have my compassion after justice is done, but no sooner.

I guess you haven't seen enough crime in your life. My grandmother is the constant victim of crime. Charlatans who try and steal her identity. It makse me angry, there is no hole deep enough you could throw these people into and toss the key in. The only reason people do this kind of stuff is greed or laziness, they want an easy, unvirtuous way out of facing up to life, and they don't care who they hurt in the process. People like that, for whom I cannot summon any compassion. I'm not heartless, I care a great deal about people I love and for the innocent.

I also hate the thought of people stealing things that belong to other people. It is revolting. What is sadder is very often these people are not caught.

OK, enough ranting. But I don't think being tough on crime is illiberal. Certainly there are circumstances where it is not justice to dispense draconian punishments on people (I can think of "Felony Murder" laws as being a perfect example), but at the same time mercy has to be weighed against society's need to exact retribution upon people who violate laws. Laws aren't just academic, they are put in place so that, as Hammurabi said, "the strong shall not oppress the weak".

[sandnsea]

113. It's All Connected

You can cut off your arm to get rid of the gash, better to heal the wound. It's all connected. We're all in this together. We are creating more criminals per capita than many other cultures. Florida produces more per capita than many other states. There are reasons. You can continue hacking away at society until there's nothing left, which you're pretty close to doing. Or step back and take a holistic approach and begin to promote healing.

[PDenton]

115. I blame part of it

on declining standards of living. In a country that is less materially prosperous, with a greater gap between those with money and those without, the weak willed and unvirtuous will always find reasons not to abide by the law- it just hurts more to do what is right when the rewards grow thinner. The common good flies out the window sooner or later and you are left with less a society and more like a bunch of people using each other and looking for any chance to rob each other when they can. There is also the cause of people modelling their behavior on their leaders. When leaders slyly decieve and lie, that sets an example for average people as well. When leaders say it's OK for some to be better off than others, with no apparrent effort on their part, it also creates conditions where people question the value of following the system.

Some of it is just pure meanness, though. I'm not saying all crime is due to social conditions. Some criminals are just dumb. Like people who steal a scooter or bike and ride it around a while and then ditch it, or people who slash tires just for perverse pleasure. Crimes like that seem to me to be inspired by more pure evil and purposelessness, although I suppose you could argue some of that is society's fault. But it all comes back to, do we as a society have to live with rotten apples? At some point you just have to say enough is enough.

[sandnsea]

116. It's All Connected

Usually those kids who are slashing the tires are full of rage and lashing out at what you described in the first paragraph. Kids are much more intuitive then we give them credit for. You can either add to their humiliation and rage by just telling them they're bad and don't deserve anything better than prison - or you can create a real structure for change. It includes boundaries, but it isn't limited to boundaries.

There is a lot that can be done. But before any of it happens, people have to quit believing that punishment is enough. It just isn't. Or that supporting a broader array of solutions means you want to let baby-rapers roam the streets.

[BlackVelvet04]

63. I have a feeling you would feel that way

no matter where you lived.

[smoogatz]

68. So, you're saying we should cut people's hands off if they steal something?

Eye for an eye, that kind of thing? Nothing about that seems a tad barbaric to you?

[PDenton]

71. crime itself is barbaric

Chopping peoples hands off is probably a bit extreme, though. They could use those hands to smash rocks and dig ditches.

[smoogatz]

73. So, would you want to live in a place like Saudi Arabia?

You wouldn't find it a bit repressive? No free internet porn? No Busch Lite?

[LanternWaste]

74. punishing the symptoms whilst ignoring the cause

I think it was Gandhi who said something to the effect of, "... the law of 'an eye for an eye' will eventually result in a blind society.


"Maybe some of them were abused as kids, come from broken homes... frankly I don't care"

To me, that statement is illustrative of the tendency of the American people to embrace apathy over prevention, in other words-- punishing the symptoms whilst ignoring the cause.

[Maraya1969]

55. The police that do these things are no better. If they treat people with respect

they will earn more respect. I dealt with them many times because of my x and the incompetence was abhorrent. One time I called because he had come over again, breaking the restraining order and it took 2 hours for the cops to get to my house and when they came they were laughing at some joke as they were strolling up the driveway.

When I was in court once another woman with an x like mine said she felt like they were going to wait until she was dead before they'd do anything.

[Ignis]

110. What an odd statement.

This state is overflowing with criminals, dirtbags, and lowlifes.

So...you live in that state, right? If the state is "overflowing" with these sorts of people, what are the odds that anyone living in the state should be counted in the aforementioned group?

Just saying. :hi:

[NewYorkerfromMass]

101. 100% correct. Boston police killed a young woman

with a rubber bullet in 2004 after the Sox beat the Yankees. It was found the use of the weapon was wrong and poorly executed. They changed policy.

[Klukie]

56. Two words....

Jeb Bush

[bobbolink]

104. Don't kid yourself. It happens all over, including Denvoid.

You might feel safer thinking it's one locale, but that doesn't change it.

[Guaranteed]

5. Doh- she WAS armed.

Well....I dunno. Swinging around knives wildly- even in a wheelchair- that kind of calls for a taser.

Maybe not 10 TIMES. But using a taser is actually pretty nice. Much preferable to the sidearm.

[sandnsea]

10. Or a mental health professional

hell maybe even a tranquilizer dart like they do with scared stray animals. The choices really aren't between bullets and tasers.

[Guaranteed]

13. You know what a mental health professional would do if a client

was swinging knives and a hammer around at people?

Call the police.

As for tranquilizers- well, they can kill too.

The idea, though, is that she needs to be disarmed immediately, so that she can't hurt anyone.

And, you're right, there could be other ways.

A police officer wearing full body armor, even gloves, perhaps, could tackle her and wrestle the knives away. It would still pose a significant danger to the officer, though.

Or they might be able to use a bean-bag gun or rubber bullets. Or gas, given the correct situation. But you understand that those are dangerous as well.

There are options, but the lady had already put herself at very serious risk once she took up a weapon.

[sandnsea]

21. Look at that big long list

See what happens when people think!! There are mental health professionals who are better at escalating situations than others, that's true. They all seem to have left the state of Florida.

[Guaranteed]

23. Once a knife is picked up, any "mental health professional" with an ounce of

sense and concern for the safety of everyone in the area would call the police.

The list of options may have been longer, but none of them were good options. The point, besides lack of effectiveness, was that none of the options were entirely safe for the woman in the wheelchair.

[sandnsea]

27. Yet still assist in defusing

some being better than others, as stated. The reliance on tasering as the sole tool in the arsenal is the problem. There were an array of options, from adequate to awful, tasers being almost as awful as bullets. They need to come up with some new tactics in Florida.

[Guaranteed]

28. I think, given the situation, the taser was the best option.

It had the highest effectiveness/lethality ratio of the options that I can think of.

[sandnsea]

33. They bring griz down with pepper spray

No, there were better options than a taser.

[ManiacJoe]

39. No, they do not.

Pepper spray is used to annoy bears enough so that they go away, when you use the super strong sprays.

The taser was a good option, just used very, very incorrectly in this case.

[sandnsea]

41. You don't want to annoy a griz

No, a canister of pepper spray will stop them cold. In this instance, because the woman was outside, pepper spray would have been a better option. It's just not in the toolbox.

"Gary Clutter, a big game hunter from Bozeman had a face-to-face encounter with a grizzly while hunting a few years ago, and bear spray saved him from a dire situation. "I caught the bear (with bear pepper spray) full in the face when it was four feet away. It was like it hit a wall. The grizzly turned and ran so fast toward her cub she ran over it," Clutter said."
http://www.sierraclub.org/pressroom/releases/pr2004-05-25.asp

[ManiacJoe]

45. Pepper spray is certainly one of the items in the cop toolbox.

It is carried on the batbelt with everything else. The down side to pepper spray is that the cops have to deal with the after effects and its lingering presence.

Your quote of Gary shows him using pepper spray to annoy the bear so it would go away, for varying degrees of annoy.
Making it mad, that is a bad idea. But I am not in the mode to argue semantics.

[sandnsea]

46. Better than dead citizens

I don't know that the small canister most cops carry would be sufficient to produce the kind of instant results that stopped that bear. It was as if it hit a wall, more than the kind of annoyance a small pepper spray canister usually produces. The point is still that there are a number of options that are better than tasers. It appears they aren't even attempting them in Florida.

[northzax]

117. you know what kind of bear spray

people who work with bears in the wild, especially grizzlies, recommend? the kind that comes out of a very large handgun.

in an enclosed space, pepper spray and mace is going to affect the user almost as much as the intended target.

[smoogatz]

61. Um

A black woman in a wheelchair with two knives and a hammer. She's very large, in addition to being crazy, and maybe there's a reason she's in that wheelchair in the first place. Hm, let's see. How do we keep her from hurting anyone without actually, you know, gving her a heart-attack and killing her? Well, let's say first we back off, because she can't stab anyone and move the wheelchair at the same time (except in a circle). And then we clear the area, so no bystanders are in danger. Then we assure the mentally ill person that no one's going to hurt her--the police are there to protect her (not kill her). You know--we talk to her. We ask her whetehr she's on medication and whether she's been taking it (this is a classic off-the-meds incident, if you ask me). We help her find her meds, get her a glass of water, watch her take them. Then, after a while, when she calms down, we take away the knives and the hammer.

What you want to bet that the female cop who tased her nine times was white, inexperienced and poorly trained?

[druidity33]

69. how about

throwing a big blanket over her, like a rowdy bear? Really it just would've taken a little creative problem solving. Crouch low and get behind the wheelchair? Lock the wheels and tip her over? Sling a couple of ropes around her? Ever try rounding up an escaped goat or calf?

Something would've worked. It wouldn't have been as easy as whipping out the Taser, but whatever...

[havocmom]

93. Must be some really nice bears where you live if a blanket will stop them

And, do the police officers carry ropes?

Taser x 10 definately NOT reasonable force, but rodeo stunts probably unlikely to work.

FL police do warrant some close evaluation and it's probable they need serious policy revision, training adjustments, maybe even some close looks at the screening they use for hiring, but I don't know that roping would be part of the gig.

A blanket tossed over the armed woman in a wheelchair might have been an option. I wouldn't try it with a bear though, but then, I live where bears are big and dangerous.

[druidity33]

99. i once saw...

two Park rangers haul away a hungry (skinny yearling, i'd say maybe 100-120 lbs), tranqued brown bear with nothing but a large wool emergency blanket. That's the only reason the analogy came to mind. My first thought was that she was inside and in a wheelchair... someone without mobility and limited range should be easier to contain and subdue. I just feel like the Taser should have been a last resort weapon. Why couldn't everyone just exit the house and have someone talk her out?

I'd need more details from someone else who was there (besides cops) to really have any opinion either way...

:shrug:

[The Vinyl Ripper]

81. She isn't going to be able to reach anyone in a wheelchair..

Have patience and she will eventually have to sleep..

What would be the harm in that?

[bobbolink]

105. Honestly, now. Non-violence tactics are so.......so....passe'

We'll bomb the shit out of another country, and we'll try out our new toys on our citizenry.

[benEzra]

126. I'm not defending this incident at ALL...

And, you're right, there could be other ways.

A police officer wearing full body armor, even gloves, perhaps, could tackle her and wrestle the knives away. It would still pose a significant danger to the officer, though.

Or they might be able to use a bean-bag gun or rubber bullets. Or gas, given the correct situation. But you understand that those are dangerous as well.

I'm not defending this incident at ALL (I don't know the whole story), and I agree that Tasers are often misused/overused (my biggest beef is when they are used against the nonviolent either for "failure to obey" or "contempt of cop").

However, I'd point out that most police body armor won't stop knives, and beanbag rounds would probably be as likely to kill an elderly person as a Taser would (or more so), especially if they shot her 10 times like they did with the Taser. Rubber bullets are lethal at close range. They could break her arms with a nightstick...but at her age, the Taser would have probably seemed safer than that, before the fact. OC spray? Maybe, but on someone her age...who knows.

Sounds like they didn't have a lot of good options. Situations like this deserve some thought, I think.

[ManiacJoe]

14. Tranquilizer darts are not legal against humans.

Along with bullets and tasers, they could have used batons. Pepper spray seems like a poor idea given the circumstances.

This would be a textbook example of when to use a taser given the three deadly weapons at contact distances. However, 10 times is way too excessive. That shows a lack of training in both standard subduing and in taser use.

[Guaranteed]

15. Batons seems too close.

They might do well to get the knives out of her hands, but the officers could pretty easily get cut up if the lady counter-lunged in her chair.

Gotta maintain your distance in dealing with knives. I just wouldn't counter a knife with a baton. Not getting near it.

[ManiacJoe]

20. Normally you would be right, but

her limited mobility due to the wheelchair would allow for the batons to be used to disarm her. However, you are correct in that this option would not be standard procedure.

[Guaranteed]

32. Distraction/baton combo

Someone keeping her attention in one direction while another came up from behind and knocked the knives out of her hands might have been a very good way to go.

On the other hand, the taser was simpler and probably would be more effective if used correctly. It does sound as if it was way overused.

[ManiacJoe]

35. Exactly. (n/t)

[northzax]

118. and, of course

you can't assume that someone wielding a weapon in a wheelchair is actually completely bound to that chair. maybe she was weak, but not immobile? maybe she simply had a bad knee? maybe she was not wheelchair bound at all, waving a knife in front of police doesn't show the best judgement, overall.

[sandnsea]

17. That was rather tongue in cheek

We have better options and training for animals was really my point.

[Richard Steele]

16. I can't help but think that I could defeat an elderly, chair-bound knife-swinger without a taser.

Do you HONESTLY think she posed an imminent threat to anyone?

Sorry, but there's just no way in HELL that this was justifiable.

[Guaranteed]

19. Um. Yes.

I would absolutely say that the lady swinging knives at the police that she called, as well as her family, was an imminent threat to the safety of other people. Not to mention herself.

She was in a wheelchair, not cemented in the ground. And they had to get the knives away from her. You can't just walk away from a situation like that and let the person sleep it off or something.

[Richard Steele]

37. So, the only option besides "walking away" was ELECTROCUTING HER TO DEATH?

Y'know, on a normal DU week that wasn't overrun
by Kerry-bashers and OJ-worshippers, your post
would be the most ridiculous example of CRAVEN
"Authoritarian Brutality Apologism" I had seen in days.

You're saying that a group of strong, physically-fit
persons who are trained in hand-to-hand combat, well-armed,
and wearing body armor had NO WAY of taking a knife away
from an old lady in a wheelchair without KILLING her.

That's what you're saying.

If I were you, I'd THINK about that before saying it again.
Hell, If I were YOU, you would never have said such a ridiculous
thing in the first place.

[ManiacJoe]

40. No one is saying that at all.

What the cops did was take a good example of when to use a taser and use it so poorly, and against all their training, that someone died as a result.

[Guaranteed]

42. "If I were you, I'd THINK about that before saying it again."

#1- Are you threatening me? That sounds very much like a threat.

#2- What you're saying I said, I simply didn't say. I didn't say that the police had no choice but to kill her. I said that the most effective means of resolving the situation was for the police to use a taser- which is correct.

Now, a more reasoned objection for you would have been that the police shouldn't have used the taser ten times on the woman, that her age and physical condition should have given them notice that doing so would be incredibly dangerous to her, and that doing so wouldn't increase the chances of disarming her after 2-3 shocks anyway.

But you didn't think this through. You didn't even read and respond to what I said carefully- you got hyperaggressive and distorted what I said in your mind.

Sorry, but I'm not your Brutal Authoritarian, dick. Never have been. I'm the guy trying to figure out how to stop someone from slicing someone else up in the least dangerous but surest way possible. So don't be taking out your hostilities on me with your ridiculous threats.

And there's no evidence that the police were wearing body armor. Even if they were, that would not be a guarantee against their injury. In the best scenarios, the police should keep their distance from her.

[Richard Steele]

47. Please, tell me more. I'd like that a lot.

[BlackVelvet04]

65. TAZER HIM........

he's going to reach through the internet and do you bodily harm.

A threat? Please.

[Beelzebud]

84. Hey they only jolted the wheelchair bound grandma 10 times, whats the big deal?

State Power is not to be challenged by the rabble.

Clearly this Wheelchair bound Grandma was a dire threat to everyone within a few miles of her.

When an elephant goes berserk at the circus we put them down. Why should Wheelchair Grandma be any different?

[Warren Stupidity]

52. She was in a wheelchair and had limited or no mobility.

She presented a risk to nobody but herself. A simple effective strategy would have been to wait for her to calm down and talk her into giving up her weapons.

[PDenton]

29. They should have used a pepper ball gun or bean-bag shotgun

to induce compliance first. Police departments need to be better trained to deal with mentally ill, demented, and physically frail people.

If she had a weak heart, even a pepper ball might kill her, though. Just from the fright.

[ManiacJoe]

34. This is actually a good example of when to use a taser.

You have a person with limited mobility armed with multiple deadly weapons that are restricted to contact distances. Instead of shooting them with a handgun, you can stand 20 feet away and get compliance and disarming with little risk to everyone. The fact that she is in a wheelchair even lessens the possibility of injury during a fall.

Unfortunately the cops went nuts with the 10x shocking, thus showing a good example of HOW to incorrectly use a taser. :mad:

[BlackVelvet04]

62. Do you think she could chase people down in her wheelchair?

Maybe if everyone stepped away from the wheelchair she wouldn't have been such a danger that she had to be tasered 10 times.

[Liberty Belle]

6. Who is training these crazed law enforcement thugs? Blackwater?

Someone should investigate. With private paramilitary forces now training many domestic law enforcement agencies, I wonder if that's why we're seeing such a rise in unnecessary violence, such as the unconscionable death of this disabled woman and the campus police tasering of a student who questioned Senator Kerry.

[Guaranteed]

7. She had two knives and a hammer and was swinging them

at her family members and police.

What would you do? Shoot her?

[Bluebear]

22. Let her swing them much as she wants to until she exhausts herself.

She's in a wheelchair, I don't think she can wheel herself, chase me and swing the knife all at once.

[Guaranteed]

25. You can't let her keep the knives.

Because you can't just leave her either. And as long as someone is in the area, there is a significant chance of a mistake being made and her hurting someone. She could also hurt herself. So you have to do something to disarm her.

[Bluebear]

30. Well, clearly what they did was not the answer, they killed her!

[smoogatz]

64. No you don't.

Clear the area. Keep your distance--her mobility is very limited. She's having a psychotic incident, obviously. She's frightened and delusional, so shouting orders at her is just going to make things worse. I've been in similar incidents a couple of times with family members, and it's entirely possible to resolve them without beating, shooting or tasering anyone. It just takes time, patience and a little common sense.

[alphafemale]

44. If a person in a wheelchair was swinging a knife at me....what would I do?

:think:


Go upstairs?

[Beelzebud]

77. She was also in a fucking wheelchair...

[Azathoth]

8. Sounds like the female cop was out of control

Tasering someone for two and a half minutes is just nuts.

[Guaranteed]

26. I'm betting you're right.

I don't know how functional people are after getting tasered, but it seems like there should have been a point where they could have gotten the weapons from her.

[orleans]

12. my god--how very sad and absolutely scary

at least for some of us who think this tasing crap has gone way too far.


let's see--56 years old, in a wheelchair, mentally ill, and electrocuted TEN TIMES for a total of nearly 3 minutes!

"He said he believes the evidence weighs heavily in favor of Delafield's family "
(ya think?)

[shance]

24. I think Amy Goodman talked about this on DN - sent chills down my spine to hear

how the police dealt with it.

It was as if their actions were premeditated.

[nofurylike]

43. get everybody out of there but three strong cops. keep telling her

you're there to protect her - she had called in fear she was in danger! and ended up dead?!

get a big sheet very wet. then, one throw a blanket/big towel over the knife; other, a blanket... over the hammer.
two take end of sheet and wrap it around her.

all the time telling her "we're here to protect you and get you to a safe place."

they craved to control her, and hated her. three minutes electrocuting her!!!


thank you to all here who show compassion.

g'night.

* edit spelling

[smoogatz]

66. Bravo.

These cops clearly weren't sufficiently trained in dealing with mentally ill people. Instead of helping this woman, they tortured and killed her.

[nofurylike]

122. it is shocking and heartbreaking, isn't it? thank you, smoogatz.

:cry:


peace and solidarity

[DemBones DemBones]

86. Yes, they could have handled this without anyone being hurt,

certainly without killing the woman. Police evidently need better training.

[nofurylike]

123. yes, they really could have. thank you, DemBones DemBones.

:cry:


peace and solidarity

[Gman]

50. This one will never see the inside of a court room

as the cit will settle real fast. And the cop that tasered her 9 times will likely be charged with murder, or at least something just short of it like manslaughter.

[Bassic]

70. I doubt that very much.

The part about the cop being charged, I mean. I hope you are right though.

[Maraya1969]

53. Why haven't criminal charges been brought up? This is horrible.

[tblue37]

54. The Florida cops think Tasers are toys. They use them on

little kids (as young as 6), old people, kids playing hooky from school, people in wheelchairs, people in diabetic comas. And they use them when they get pissed because someone isn't being submissive or cooperative enough. They apply them repeatedly as extrajudicial punishment when someone seems a bit uppity to them.

I collect these stories. Florida's cops are the worst offenders.

[Apollo11]

57. Only yesterday this Forum was full of people defending taser use

against an unarmed college kid who had not threatened anyone.

His crime seemed to be: asking more than one question and then expecting that he would be allowed to remain in the room and listen to the answers.

This kid had the guts to express in public about 1% of the anger that I feel towards John Kerry for how he allowed the GOP machine to steal the 2004 election - before, during and after election day.

[DemBones DemBones]

90. And I was one of the ones saying "Are you crazy?"

They had NO right to Taser that guy. The implications for free speech are astounding, yet people kept saying "But he was being an asshole." Free speech allows you to be an asshole. A lot of people would say Code Pink are assholes for getting into Congressional hearings and shouting anti-war slogans.

Considering the way protesters are penned into "Free Speech" zones, Code Pink are some of the few voices of dissent Dubya may ever hear. We know now from the White House manual that * is supposed to be protected from ever seeing protesters, so he can live in his bubble. In other words, to be heard now, you have to be an "asshole." You have to make noise in public and get on tv if at all possible.

I'll bet Andrew Meyer will sue and win a big judgement against UF, or the city, or both, if UF and city cops were involved. The poor old lady won't have a chance to sue but maybe her family will sue. They should.

I don't think the Taser madness will stop until enough cities have had to shell out big bucks to victims of Tasers.

[Vinca]

58. We've had a local taser brouhaha of late and it's in the bluest town

in the bluest county in the bluest state: Brattleboro, Vermont (I'm right across the river in NH). The cops unnecessarily tasered 2 nonviolent protesters who refused to leave a piece of vacant land proposed for a truck stop. They had attached themselves to a barrel of some sort and wouldn't unlock themselves. The cops could have waited them out - it was a hot day and they would have needed to get water - but they chose the expedient mode of arrest and tased them. Their attorney is already talking settlement with the town. Since then, it's come out that on a couple of different occasions the same department has been called to respond to the local psychiatric hospital to subdue an out-of-control patient. Now that in itself is pretty strange (the Vermont State Hospital. for example, never resorted to calling police), but that's what happened. The cops responded and there was a juvenile going nuts in a seclusion room. Rather than trying to calm him down, or use physical force to hold him down to be medicated, they tased him. A psychiatric patient. I've decided it's the whole "terror, terror, terror" mentality the little dictator has spread across the country and now grandmas with brown lawns, women in wheelchairs and rude, political rally attendees are enemy #1. How many days of this nightmare are left?

[alfredo]

91. Wasn't a man having a seizure tasered?

[Vinca]

102. It wouldn't surprise me, but I don't think it was in this particular town.

I could be wrong, though.

[alfredo]

108. I don't dance because of the threat of being tasered, or administered

a strong sedative.

[Pastiche423]

121. Yes

Google: man + taser + seizure and you will find plenty.

A brief article about a man tased while having a seizure died:

http://www.topix.net/city/spokane-wa/2007/05/man-who-was-tasered-in-spokane-dies

[Fly by night]

59. Another taser thread -- so last weekend. Wait, here's another shiny ball...

OJ free on bail,
dating another blonde with "demon eyebrows" and pneumatic breasts,
smiling for the cameras.

Stay tuned ,,, more at 11:00 (and likely here on DU).

[tom_paine]

60. Before I clicked on the link and read the story I asked myself, "Is she Black?"

Actually, I didn't ask myself at all. I KNEW, even before I clicked on the link.

And "swinging the knife wildly" reminds me of that Dave Chapelle bit that is pretty close to truthful about what if Rich White Guys got treated like N*ggers (which happens to now include 74% of the Imperial Subjects of Amerika regardless of race or anything else but their/our serfdom):

OFFICER: I swear your honor, the dog tried to attack us, and then this man's wife shoved her titties in my hand!

Amerika is a nation full of shame and evil...waiting for permission to come out. The Bushies will give it that opportunity as soon as they are able.

[tammywammy]

72. While the taser was definitely overused

This is a perfect instance where a taser should be used. The woman, though in a wheelchair, was still a danger to herself. They cannot allow her to continue to have the weapons. And obviously her family thought she was a danger, hence the call to 911 in the first place.

If she couldn't have been subdued with 1 or 2 shocks, the police should have gone another route. But overall, this is a perfect situation where a teaser is more appropriate, than lets say a baton which could cause injury.


The police need better training to know that 10 shocks with a teaser is definite overuse of force.

[Bluebear]

75. 'The woman was a danger to herself', so they killed her!

:rofl:

[tammywammy]

78. Did you not read what I wrote?

I never said it was okay that they killed her or the fact that they used the taser so much.

[Bluebear]

79. Yes I did, and was pointing out the horrible irony of the situation.

:hi:

[tammywammy]

80. I think the police were obviously wrong to use the taser that much

Regardless, and taser is better in a situtation like this, than whacking her with a baton or hitting her with pepper spray.

[KansDem]

87. A similar tragedy occurred in Lawrence, Kansas, in 1991

Native American Man Killed When Police Respond to Call for Help


A depressed 22-year old man locks himself in his room with a kitchen knife.
His parents, concerned for their son, call 911 and ask for help, expecting the
police to aid them in disarming their maybe suicidal son. Or at least the
assumption is made that Gregg might have been depressed and thinking about
suicide. But no one knows for sure. He might have been using the knife to
clean his fingernails; he might have been using the knife for a hundred other
things. Was it wrong for him to be sitting alone inhis room listening to
music and playing with a knife?

Two police officers arrive within minutes of each other; without asking the
Seviers any questionsabout the circumstances or about their son's emotional
status, they take control of the situation. They shout orders to Gregg Sevier
that he does not obey, and in less time than it took to drive across town
torespond to the call, within four minutes and twenty-one seconds of their
arrival to "help," Gregg Sevier is dead, shot twice in the heart, shot a total
of six times, when two of the three responding officers open fire.

--more--
nativenet

I remember this incident since I was a student at the university there at the time. It didn't make any more sense than this one either.

[alphafemale]

124. omg What a nightmare for those parents.

That is such a tragedy.

[Beelzebud]

76. How many people do the Police get to MURDER before we put a stop to tasers?

[onenote]

82. should we take away cops guns too?

after all, they can use guns to murder someone.

THis was a case where a taser was abused. But I can find cases where cops have caused unnecessary injury with guns, clubs, fists, feet, cars etc.

[Beelzebud]

83. No I said we should get rid of tasers, can you read?

For some reason cops don't use clubs, guns, feet, cars, etc on children and the wheelchair bound elderly, but they seem to use tasers a lot.

[onenote]

88. maybe cops don't use guns, clubs, etc. on wheelchair bound folks on your planet

I should come visit.Meanwhile, back on earth:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/05/22/katrina.shotinback/index.html

http://www.infowars.com/articles/ps/wheelchair_bound_man_shot_by_police.htm

http://cbs2.com/local/local_story_103065103.html

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/05/06/BAG6P6GHVS1.DTL

[DemBones DemBones]

94. Cops shouldn't be using any of those, or Tasers,

on wheelchair-bound people who are obviously not in their right mind at the time. There are other ways to subdue people, like throwing blankets over them, using pepper spray or tear gas. Cops are having too much fun with Tasers. Zap! Take that!

Some people should not be police officers. People are usually atracted to police work because they get to be a dominant authoritarian figure. Some handle that well, others don't. There are always some bad cops but the Taser makes it easy for anyone to harm someone without endangering themselves, as they would if they started beating up on someone, for instance. Tasers are being used too cavalierly.

[onenote]

96. I don't disagree

with almost anything you said. But even the ACLU agrees that taser use has the potential to save lives as an alternative to deadly force and should be regulated and subject to strict training requirements, not banned.

[Bassic]

127. It does have the potential to do that.

But it is too often misused.

[DemBones DemBones]

89. Too many, obviously. Tasers should be banned.

Too many people have already been killed, too many cops think the Taser is the answer to everything. As has already been said, pepper spray would have worked. A tear-gas grenade lobbed into the house would have worked.

Yes, the cops would have to wear respirators and eye protection so it's easier to zap an old lady in a wheelchair with a Taser. I know nobody likes wearing respirators and eye protection but on some jobs you have to be willing to do it.

I know the police don't want to have to deal with someone who is sick from tear gas, either, but an ambulance crew should have been called already since the woman obviously would have been taken in for psychiatric observation.

The woman was not in her right mind at the time. She needed help. Instead, she was killed with one of these damned dangerous Tasers.

If she'd been O.J. Simpson or Oprah and freaked out like that, would they have Tasered her to death? Remember how the police allowed O.J. to go on his long trip in the white Bronco? They didn't want him to commit suicide so they just followed for hours.

Money is everything, whether you're black or white. Green is the color that really matters most. If this woman had been white, I don't think she'd have been treated much differently. Maybe a little better but I don't think the average police officer has any patience with the mentally ill or the elderly.

[KansDem]

85. I think the phrase "Taser™-finger" will soon replace "trigger-finger" in popular jargon...

Shocking this woman once is questionable enough, but 10 times???

I think the cop thought he was playing a video game...

[BlooInBloo]

92. Goddamn fucking cops.

[BlooInBloo]

97. This just needs to be called "electrocution" from here on out.

[CT_Progressive]

98. Too bad Bugs Bunny wasn't there..

... he would have stuck a broomstick through the spokes of the wheelchair and solved everything.

/sarcasm

Its clear that someone in a wheelchair is not a threat to anyone unless they have a firearm. The first rule of self-defense is that you must, by law, attempt to flee. Anyone can flee from a person in a wheelchair.

As far as the cops go, they easily could have solved this without force.

As another poster said, this will never see the inside of a court room. The cops will settle long before that point.

[emlev]

107. This happened months ago, the story is from yesterday

and I'm guessing we're only hearing about it because of the other tasering incident. No mention in the story that the woman is (apparently, from her picture) African American.

Horrendous. Truly horrendous.

[Romulox]

114. What a senseless tragedy. It truly sickens me that people are defending this tasering as well...nt

[KamaAina]

120. The phrase "wheelchair-bound" is obsolete

correct usage is that she "uses (or, rather, used :( ) a wheelchair".

This demonstrates that the media is as clueless about her mobility disability as the taser-happy cops are about her psychiatric one. :grr: :banghead:

edit: spelling

[JVS]

125. was she an asshole though?