HERE IS EXACTLY HOW AMERICA GOT TO THIS POINT

[The Vinyl Ripper]

http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/511928.html

An excerpt from
They Thought They Were Free
The Germans, 1933-45
Milton Mayer

But Then It Was Too Late

"What no one seemed to notice," said a colleague of mine, a philologist, "was the ever widening gap, after 1933, between the government and the people. Just think how very wide this gap was to begin with, here in Germany. And it became always wider. You know, it doesn’t make people close to their government to be told that this is a people’s government, a true democracy, or to be enrolled in civilian defense, or even to vote. All this has little, really nothing, to do with knowing one is governing.

"What happened here was the gradual habituation of the people, little by little, to being governed by surprise; to receiving decisions deliberated in secret; to believing that the situation was so complicated that the government had to act on information which the people could not understand, or so dangerous that, even if the people could not understand it, it could not be released because of national security. And their sense of identification with Hitler, their trust in him, made it easier to widen this gap and reassured those who would otherwise have worried about it.

"This separation of government from people, this widening of the gap, took place so gradually and so insensibly, each step disguised (perhaps not even intentionally) as a temporary emergency measure or associated with true patriotic allegiance or with real social purposes. And all the crises and reforms (real reforms, too) so occupied the people that they did not see the slow motion underneath, of the whole process of government growing remoter and remoter.

"You will understand me when I say that my Middle High German was my life. It was all I cared about. I was a scholar, a specialist. Then, suddenly, I was plunged into all the new activity, as the university was drawn into the new situation; meetings, conferences, interviews, ceremonies, and, above all, papers to be filled out, reports, bibliographies, lists, questionnaires. And on top of that were the demands in the community, the things in which one had to, was ‘expected to’ participate that had not been there or had not been important before. It was all rigmarole, of course, but it consumed all one’s energies, coming on top of the work one really wanted to do. You can see how easy it was, then, not to think about fundamental things. One had no time."

"Those," I said, "are the words of my friend the baker. ‘One had no time to think. There was so much going on.’"

"Your friend the baker was right," said my colleague. "The dictatorship, and the whole process of its coming into being, was above all diverting. It provided an excuse not to think for people who did not want to think anyway. I do not speak of your ‘little men,’ your baker and so on; I speak of my colleagues and myself, learned men, mind you. Most of us did not want to think about fundamental things and never had. There was no need to. Nazism gave us some dreadful, fundamental things to think about—we were decent people—and kept us so busy with continuous changes and ‘crises’ and so fascinated, yes, fascinated, by the machinations of the ‘national enemies,’ without and within, that we had no time to think about these dreadful things that were growing, little by little, all around us. Unconsciously, I suppose, we were grateful. Who wants to think?

"To live in this process is absolutely not to be able to notice it—please try to believe me—unless one has a much greater degree of political awareness, acuity, than most of us had ever had occasion to develop. Each step was so small, so inconsequential, so well explained or, on occasion, ‘regretted,’ that, unless one were detached from the whole process from the beginning, unless one understood what the whole thing was in principle, what all these ‘little measures’ that no ‘patriotic German’ could resent must some day lead to, one no more saw it developing from day to day than a farmer in his field sees the corn growing. One day it is over his head.

<considerably more>

[ShortnFiery]

1. Yes! The water is slowly increasing temperature on "that resting frog" (USA Populace) in the pot.

In Germany, the Nazis first came for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Catholics, but I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.

Then they came for me...By that time there was no one to speak up for anyone.

by Reverend Martin Niemoller

[ShortnFiery]

2. GOP Blocks Bid on Rights Of Detainees

A Republican filibuster in the Senate yesterday shot down a bipartisan effort to restore the right of terrorism suspects to contest in federal courts their detention and treatment, underscoring the Democratic-led Congress's difficulty with terrorism issues.

The 56 to 43 vote fell short of the 60 needed to cut off debate and move to a final vote on the amendment to the Senate's annual defense policy bill. But the measure did garner the support of six Republicans, a small victory for its supporters. A similar proposal drew 48 "yea" votes last September.

[ShortnFiery]

3. GOP Blocks Longer Leave For Troops

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/19/AR2007091900915.html?hpid=topnews

Senate Republicans yesterday rejected a bipartisan proposal to lengthen the home leaves of U.S. troops fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan, derailing a measure that war opponents viewed as one of the best chances to force President Bush to accelerate a redeployment of forces.

Of all the Iraq measures now pending before the Senate, as part of an annual defense policy debate, Democrats had viewed the Webb proposal as one of the few that could gain broad enough support to become law. The measure would have required that troops be granted home leaves at least as long as their most recent combat deployments before being sent back to war. Its focus on troops and their families, rather than on military strategy, had attracted more GOP backing than Democratic bills that had set withdrawal timetables or had targeted war funding.

--------------

Please tell me again, "Who presently runs Congress?"

Our Democratic Leaders are A.W.O.L. if they don't start screaming from the highest rafters, "UP OR DOWN VOTE! THE PEOPLE DEMAND AND UP OR DOWN VOTE!!!"

[The Vinyl Ripper]

19. First they came for the dopers..

We have around a million of them in jail and prison today, a hugely disproportionate number of them minorities.

America has its "Jews".

Who's next?

[Lucinda]

4. I've often commented that I could understand how so many people were taken in

by Bush. They wanted to believe.

I taught a Fine Arts Theatre class when I was in grad school, and I always started the first day talking about Hitler and WWII. Which shocked the heck out of people... :) All the spectacle employed helped draw in German citizens who were still suffering after WW1. Nighttime torch light parades, the huge masses of soldiers in formations, the colors chosen; everything intended to boost pride, and all the while, behind the smoke and mirrors, all the things mentioned in your link began to erode life in Germany.

On the "Mission Accomplished" day - I was keenly aware of the staging. It happens all the time in politics, but I'm wary enough to look at it fresh each time and see what they are trying to create.
And sure enough, day by day, all the "terra terra terra", "If you don't agree - you're against the troops," and everything else that's followed since then, helped create the smoke and mirrors which are deflecting attention away from the truth of what is being done to our country.

[nosmokes]

6. I see your point, and certainly all the pageantry and pomp

helps to make the sale,but we are talking politics, not theatre. When someone takes their dearly paid for seat in the crowd and anxiously awaits the the lights to dim and the curtain to rise they've made a contract. And their part of it is that willing suspension of disbelief. Whereas w/ politics it should be exactly the opposite.Especially when it comes to firing the first shot in a war. We shouldn't suspend any mote of disbelief. Our contract w/ the pols sshould be diametrically opposed to tha w/ the actors and crew of the theatre, we're talking real deal, and we should demand proof of what the lying mofos are saying before we allow them to sacrifice one single life or spend one thin dime against a made up enemy for corporate interests.

But then we are a nation glued to the idiot box, eh? And professional rasslin makes millions.

[Swamp Rat]

5. k&r

[Generic Other]

52. why does he keep posing for shots like this for you?

He makes your job so easy!!

:hi:

[ClayZ]

7. K and R

[cali]

8. This argument has been made for years

And certainly one can point to aspects of the bush admin that can be compared to Hitler's assumption of power in Germany, but it's not a carbon copy. First of all, Americans have no enthusiasm for bush or cheney now, unlike the enthusiasm of the German population in the early and mid 1930's. So even if they're blissfully stupid about the secrecy and aspiring dictatorial nature of bushco, they're hardly in thrall to bush or cheney. The admin is deeply unpopular.

In addition, this country, unlike Germany, has a long history of democracy; flawed naturally, but valuable none the less.

[Disturbed]

10. Tyrants start off by promising Security.

Then they slowly amass power and take away Liberty.

[cali]

12. gee. thanks for that.

That's hardly my point. And of course, it's not even accurate. Some tyrants start off slowly, others seize power with great rapidity.

[Dr. Strange]

71. Unlike every other politician...

who promise security and then slowly amass power and take away liberty.

[deutsey]

14. It doesn't matter, really, if the admin is deeply unpopular

The real elite power behind the admin. is firmly entrenched and in control. It has at its command something the Nazis only dreamed of: an amazing array of technological ways to keep us distracted and disconnected while it dismantles real democratic and economic structures interfering with its power. It uses a more refined, sophisticated shadowplay than the thuggish Nazis to maintain control.

German (and American) industrialists supported Hitler because they thought they could control him while their interests were served. That class learned an important lesson: Having everything depend on the unstable whims of a megalomaniac like Hitler is bad for business. Bush/Cheney served their purposes and now that they are apparently tanking, they can be disposed of.

[cali]

15. Sure it matter that the admin is deeply unpopular.

Yes the corporate exercise of power is disturbing, but believing that the entrenchment of corporate power can never be mitigated or loosened is foolish. As is believing all corporations share identical interests.

[The Vinyl Ripper]

22. Tell me it didn't go down exactly like this...

“Naturally the common people don’t want war. But after all, it is the
leaders of a country who determine the policy, and it’s always a
simple matter to drag people along whether it is a democracy or a
fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship.
Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of
the leaders. This is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are
being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and
for exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every
country.”
--- Hermann Goering, Hitler’s Reich Marshall, at the Nuremberg
Trials after World War II.

[cali]

31. Try presenting your argument in your own words

It's lazy to rely on quotes to do the work for you. Use them, by all means, but not as the sole form of your argument.

[The Vinyl Ripper]

35. Don't fucking tell me how to write my fucking posts..

I don't tell you how to write yours..

[cali]

40. I must have hit a nerve.

It was just a bit of advice, not a directive.

[The Vinyl Ripper]

41. I bothered to research the OP.

Post it, provide a link..

And you tell me I'm lazy..

Sometimes things speak for themselves..

On edit: And if you actually *read* what I posted you will see that I did add my own comment..

[Beelzebud]

44. Hitting nerves seems to be your forte lately...

[deutsey]

90. Believe what you want. If you think corporate power is merely "disturbing"....

You have your view, I have mine, I guess. Your view appears as foolish to me, though, as mine apparently seems to be to you.

:hi:

[The Vinyl Ripper]

21. Ahem....

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.” -Joseph Goebbels

[cali]

30. So? That's true, but hardly strengthens your

argument. What's more, as you have presented it as your argument, let me point out that currently the lie is NOT being maintained, as people are NOT being shielded from the "political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie"- the very portion of the quote which you bolded.

[The Vinyl Ripper]

36. That was my fucking point..

Read the title to my OP..

But here we have the illusion of two parties, but when we elect the other party to power the progress toward fascism continues..

[cali]

42. Just talking in cliches

doesn't make something true. You don't see the difference between the dems and the repukes after yesterday's Senate votes, you never will. That, btw, is not a blanket or even ringing endorsement of Congressional dems; they deserve a lot of criticism, but the "the two parties are exactly alike" canard is so easily refuted. And sorry, a slim majority and the attendant failures of said majority, doesn't do much to advance your "argument".

[The Vinyl Ripper]

45. They are both bought off by the corporatarchy..

Why did Pelosi let the FISA bill come to a vote?

She didn't have to do that..

[MedleyMisty]

55. It doesn't have to be a carbon copy

Surely you can see the general similarities. There's no way the exact same things could happen again in the exact same way in a different time and a different country. But that doesn't change the fact that the big pictures are very similar. Saying "But we don't have a death camp named Auschwitz yet so we aren't at all like the Nazis." is not seeing the forest for the trees.

I found a book in the used bookstore a while ago. It was titled "Fascism and Big Business" and was written in the 30s before the war. I kept showing my husband paragraphs and saying, "Does this remind you of anything?"

[mmonk]

57. We've deteriorated quite a long way already.

Suspension of habeas corpus, Patriot Act, military invasion based on lies and forged documents, extra-legal black hole prisons, torture, NSA spying on citizens, extra constitutional powers to the executive branch, politicized justice department, stacked courts, signing statements as an instrument to not follow laws...do you want me to keep going? Sorry, but these things are not of democracy.

[NashVegas]

68. A Certain US Population Has Been in Love With Bush from Day #1

And some of them still are.

[BR_Parkway]

9. That sounds very apologetic and hand wringing and "it's not really

my fault, I was too busy to notice" - but I'm sorry, watching all this unfold over the past 7 years gives me a little different take on it.

Somewhere around half of us "got it", paid attention to it, have been screaming aloud to warn others about it - and have been called everything from terrorist supporters to out right traitors for our efforts.

I am not willing to let even one of the sheeple enablers get away with saying they were too busy to notice. That's not to say that this (mis)Administration hasn't been a master at manipulating the populace, but that doesn't let these others off the hook. They are guilty of everything they've accused us of.

[ShortnFiery]

11. Our biggest threat to our Democratic Republic isn't party or *, but "The Unitary Executive"

Regardless of who snags the Presidency, we need Congressional Representatives with a spine who are willing to *re-set* the balance of power.

It should come as no surprise that MSNBC just published a poll conveying that Congress has an 11% approval rating.

HEY Nancy, Harry, Steny and Chuck? What's the definition of insanity again?

Stop abdicating Congressional Power and Responsibility to The Unitary Executive ... stop listening to the DLC and DO SOMETHING!

:grr: :nuke:

[The Vinyl Ripper]

18. I can assure you that nowhere near half "gets it"..

My adult daughter is very bright, reads a lot for pleasure and is an excellent speller.

She had no clue what fascism is and couldn't even spell it.

I tried hard to make the case for creeping fascism to absolutely no avail, she refused to believe me.

[Selatius]

13. We will see what will happen to the Constitution if a war with Iran or another 9/11 occurs.

Frankly, I'm not optimistic it will survive well at all. If anything can be demonstrated, then that would be that if you scare people enough, they can be convinced to give away their freedom with promises of safety.

[ShortnFiery]

16. Like Pavlov's Dogs, the American People have been FEAR-mongered into a state of

Learned Helplessness.

DAMN OUR GUTLESS DEMOCRATIC REPRESENTATIVES! Demand "an up or down vote" on these bills!?!

[Orsino]

17. We let Big Money buy itself more and more power.

"Security" concerns are simply Big Money's excuse.

[lonestarnot]

20. Yes disconnect the money and see the gap close.

[The Vinyl Ripper]

23. True...

But who is going to bell the cat?

[Orsino]

26. Wouldn't it be nice to get the money out of the way...

...and find out what Liberal and Conservative really mean?

[The Vinyl Ripper]

27. It will never happen.. n/t

[Orsino]

28. It WILL happen, eventually.

But I'm afraid it will only occur following violent revolution. Big Money is doing its best to make peaceful revolution impossible.

I don't want Madame Guillotine to sing, but damn!

[The Vinyl Ripper]

37. Violent revolution?

You'd have to pry people away from their big screen TV's and video games..

And that will *never* happen..

[Orsino]

53. I have to hope you're correct...

...but when the oil runs out, and even water is hard to come by, mere lullabyes won't keep us quiet.

[The Vinyl Ripper]

54. I think you meant to say

You hope that I'm _not_ correct..

The oil won't run out all of a sudden, people will become acclimated to it and won't really notice.

Same with the water.. We've had outdoor watering bans where I live continuously for about ten years now.

[Orsino]

59. I hope that you're right...

...in that violent revolution isn't inevitable. Its being impossible, though, is perhaps just as sad.

I suppose that they'll be able to tranquilize us for a while yet.

[tom_paine]

24. Even at DU, most do not want to see, and will go into active and aggressive denial

if you dare to point out to them (and if you think DU is bad about that, try making that perfectly prescient and obvious observation in a mixed group of people).

But the fact of the matter is that the Amerikan Rulers are far closer in principle to the Nazis and the Imperial Subjects of Amerika are, as a whole, more mentally configured to allow Nazi-like things to happen than perhaps ever before in history.

But they'll stick you in Halliburton Concentration Camp and let you die in a puddle of your own urine and feces, before admitting that.

Which is the greatest irony, but neither Bushies nor Imperial Subjects of Amerika understand very much about irony, except that the Simpsons use it to make them laugh.

[The Vinyl Ripper]

25. God is an iron..

""If a person who indulges in gluttony is a glutton, and a person who commits a felony is a felon, then God is an iron." -Spider Robinson

[lateo]

38. The Good Germans.

They always turn a blind eye to what is happening.

[The Vinyl Ripper]

43. The whole point of the OP article

Is that it is damn near impossible to notice it until it's too late to speak out.

Have you tried talking about this to someone who is not extremely well informed?

If not, try it sometime. You will get an eye opening experience..

[lateo]

46. What I have found is...

I sometimes get the same sort of response from someone who IS well informed as someone who isn't. There are times when I have no hope at all for humanity.

[The Vinyl Ripper]

48. True enough..

But at least it's "sometimes" rather than "always".

[tom_paine]

47. Yep. They have always been with us. That is why the Founding Fathers wrote

the Constitution in order to keep evil tyrants from putting these people in psychological harness to further their goals.

But psychology as a science did not exist in 1787, so the Founding Fathers only had their intuitiuon and the experience of Bushie Medeval Europe to draw from.

Now, that mission has failed and the Founding Fathers have failed and the Constitution has failed as spectaularly as the Weimar Constitution failed when confronted with similar attacks.

The "Good Germans" are merely doing what they ALWAYS do and always have done since the first monkey fell out of the first tree and took the first upright steps.

The only difference now is that we have no Constitution, no lawful governemnt, by which to stop it from happeneing.

There is only Imperial Fiat. There are only rigged, useless "elections" that tell us NOTHING about who voted for whom, unless it is a landslide.

[The Vinyl Ripper]

49. Even the "landslides" are rigged..

The corporatarchy controls both parties..

Hillary: "I can envision a time when you will need proof of insurance to get a job interview"..

[blm]

83. Exactly what I have seen here - and this is a place where you EXPECT people

to be more concerned as a citizenry.

[Octafish]

29. Here's when they made it public...

President Kennedy was unprotected and driven into an ambush by members of the U.S. Government.

[lonestarnot]

32. And his standoncar protector was waived off by CIA.

[Octafish]

76. That footage was startling.

For those interested in our nation's history, evidence of Treason:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6741103875607821823&q=JFK+love+field&total=12&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

Secret Service Agent Harry J. Rybka is ORDERED off the rear of President Kennedy's limousine.

Agents Go On Record:

JFK DID NOT ORDER SECRET SERVICE OFF DALLAS LIMOUSINE

KENNEDY NEVER ORDERED SECURITY STAND-DOWN OR BUBBLE-TOP REMOVAL

PRESIDENTIAL SECURITY MYSTERIOUSLY "STRIPPED" AND OTHERWISE
COMPROMISED FOR FATAL MOTORCADE

SECRET SERVICE IGNORING OF ADVANCE WARNING OF THREATS DOCUMENTED


“HISTORY" CORRECTED 35 YEARS LATER BY PRIMARY SOURCES

by Vincent M. Palamara

EXCERPT…

THE RYBKA TAPE -- An important discovery was made by this correspondent during review of video of the Dallas trip shot by the ABC television affiliate in that city. During the start of the fatal motorcade at Love Field, Secret Service agent Henry J. Rybka begins to jog alongside the presidential limousine. He is immediately called back by his shift leader and commander of the follow-up car detail, Emory P. Roberts.

Rybka's dismay and confusion is made manifest by his unambiguous body language: He throws up his arms several times before, during and after the follow-up car passes him. He was not being allowed to do his job -- and it was not JFK who was ordering the stand-down.

Despite the discovery by this correspondent of three reports to the contrary (two by Roberts) written on November 22, 1963, this newly discovered photographic evidence confirms that frustrated and vocal-in-his-objections Rybka did not enter the follow-up car and was left behind at the airport.

CONTINUED…

http://www.jfklancer.com/LNE/limo.html

Secret Service Agent Emory P. Roberts ORDERED Rybka not to protect JFK.



Ask: "Who has that kind of power?"

[lonestarnot]

87. Thanks Octafish. I looked for it but couldn't find it.

[Octafish]

88. CORRECTION: Henry J. Rybka

I just realized that I wrote another name. Sorry.

When he wanted to ride beside the President, Mr. Rybka was on the side of the Constitution.

[Carolina]

80. Exactly

Everything changed after that.

How well I remember that awful Friday in November. I lived in DC at the time and drove by the WH north portico draped in black that Friday night.

You could feel the change in the air and I don't mean temperature though it was cold (and clear). Then there were the lines and lines of people passing through Lincoln Park over the weekend en route to the Capitol where JFK lay in state for the public after being moved from the East Room of the WH. Everyone recognized then that everything had CHANGED.

Such a sad time, sad event.

[Octafish]

89. I was six years of age...

...my dad was in the Navy. It may a memory I've since invented, but it's crystal clear for a long time: For some reason -- we were in the car when we heard the news on the radio -- that was the first thought I had, too. "Things will never be the same."

Since then, I've been very, very angry about this act of treason.



Regarding JFK Assassination—Who do You Trust: Poppy Bush or Your Own Eyes?

I also get made when the subject of Dallas gets dismissed.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

33. To me, the most notable red flag is the state of perpetual crises.

The CM and/or the executive certainly pushes a daily dose of one crisis after another, never ending.

[The Vinyl Ripper]

51. Remember the "peace dividend"?

How long did that last?

A year or two?

[blm]

34. Unfortunately most Democrats including many DUers ignore import of BCCI and

the entire BFEE network - you see, their favorite Democrat might look bad, so it's better to ignore it than acknowledge that BFEE is gaining their fascist agenda with the help of some powerful and influential Democrats providing cover and protection.

[The Vinyl Ripper]

39. People dont _want_ to know..

I tried to explain it to my very intelligent, well read adult daughter..

She basically put her fingers in her ears and started going la la la.. Metaphorically speaking.

[antigop]

58. Cognitive dissonance. n/t

[Generic Other]

50. this article so hits home on a personal level

OMG...this is what DUers have been dealing with since day 1 under the bush regime. upsetting to see ourselves described so accurately.

[The Vinyl Ripper]

56. Thank you for getting the point..

And we don't even have the excuse of not having a relatively recent historical example..

[blm]

64. Yep - Who will tell the people?

We HAD that chance with Kerry. Now, the best we can hope is that Gore, 'Assault on Reason' Gore not 'Clinton VP' Gore, gets into the race to stop this nation's race to fascism.

If we could get both Gore and Kerry this nation would have the best chance to turn off the fascist road its on now.

[Generic Other]

66. is he going to run?

Ya gotta want it first...can't say i'd blame him for refusing the "honor."

[blm]

73. Hoping and begging here.

That's all I can do.

[Jed Dilligan]

60. That pretty much nails it

Especially this part:

"I was a scholar, a specialist. Then, suddenly, I was plunged into all the new activity, as the university was drawn into the new situation; meetings, conferences, interviews, ceremonies, and, above all, papers to be filled out, reports, bibliographies, lists, questionnaires. And on top of that were the demands in the community, the things in which one had to, was ‘expected to’ participate that had not been there or had not been important before. It was all rigmarole, of course, but it consumed all one’s energies, coming on top of the work one really wanted to do. You can see how easy it was, then, not to think about fundamental things. One had no time."

That's been going on for decades here, actually, since the "business model" was forced on all walks of life in the Reagan era.

[The Vinyl Ripper]

61. Yep, you've got it...

Combine this with my other OP on the fourteen characteristics of fascism and you have a snapshot of America today..

[Jed Dilligan]

62. Hitlerism IS the corporate model

With the CEO as Hitler. I was inside, so I know. "Government by surprise" is also an extremely apt expression. We've been softened up for the bigtime by (most of our) job conditions. The assault on all forms of work that have a more democratic approach--notably teaching, academia, and government--is much more comprehensible in this light. Anyone without a boss, whose authority over their person and their work is absolute, is a criminal.

[The Vinyl Ripper]

63. IN the future anything not mandatory will be prohibited n/t

[The Vinyl Ripper]

65. Kick, n/t

[BlooInBloo]

67. We got here by a stupid electorate that neither admits nor cares that it's stupid.

[The Vinyl Ripper]

70. If you read the OP

You will see that even the intelligencia never saw it coming..

[BlooInBloo]

72. "I don't think anybody could have predicted...." - lol! And then there's my 100 year old sig.

[Locrian]

69. great post thanks

I find all of your posts very insightful - thanks.

Have you ever read The Mass Psychology of Fascism by Wilhelm Reich? Even though Reich has some really way out wack ideas on sex etc, he makes some good observations on why people follow fascism.

http://www.nickcooper.com/mass.htm




Under the influence of politicians, masses of people tend to ascribe the responsibility for wars to those who wield power at any given time. In World War I it was the munitions industrialists; in World War II it was the psychopathic generals who were said to be guilty. This is passing the buck. The responsibility for wars falls solely upon the shoulders of these same masses of people, for they have all the necessary means to avert war in their own hands. In part by their apathy, in part by their passivity, and in part actively, these same masses of people make possible the catastrophes under which they themselves suffer more than anyone else. To stress this guilt on the part of masses of people, to hold them solely responsible, means to take them seriously. On the other hand, to commiserate with masses of people as victims, means to treat them as small, helpless children. The former is the attitude held by the genuine freedom-fighters; the latter the attitude held by the power-thirsty politicians.

[The Vinyl Ripper]

75. LOL.. even my Circuit City threads?

Thanks for the compliment.

No, actually I haven't read Reich although I have heard of him..

I'll check it out, thanks for the info..

[DangerDave921]

74. One thing

I know DU loves the good ol' comparisons to Germany but come on folks. Everyone seems to forget that Bush is going back to Texas in 2009. Period. There is no martial law, no canceling of elections. He is not a dictator. We will likely have a Dem president in 2009. The guy is a doofus. Why all the insistence on making him larger than life and comparing him to Hitler. It really is juvenile and serves no purpose in any political debate.

As for individual liberty, please someone on here -- anyone on here -- tell me what specific right you have lost as a result of this president. What CAN'T you do in your life that you could have done before Bush was president.

[The Vinyl Ripper]

77. It's not bushie...

It's those behind him and the Reps and the Dems..

The corporatarchy.

That's who's really calling the shots.

And they will still be calling the shots after the elections, no matter who gets elected.

[blm]

78. Vinyl - you should repost this in a way that connects these two threads -

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1854542

[The Vinyl Ripper]

79. I don't want to be seen as an attention whore..

I already have enough threads going right now..

I would greatly appreciate it if you would do the dirty deed..

[blm]

81. I disagree - I don't think anyone here sees you like that.

I actually believe you have made a point here that many agree with 100%.

[The Vinyl Ripper]

82. LOL...

Go and look at my OP's titled "Authoritarians versus Libertarians on DU" and "People who hate children are not progressives or liberals".

I got called nearly every name in the book..

[blm]

84. I see both sides - but the picture gets even bigger when you step back

and look at WHY the amazing run of hyped bad press stories against Kerry - and then look at who has exposed the fascist agenda of BushInc and his cronies over the years. Is it a coincidence that the lawmaker who uncovered IranContra, illegal wars in Central America, BCCI and CIA Drugrunning is also on the receiving end of so many stories spun against him?

Once you realize the fascists have targeted Kerry for over 30 years, then a completely clear picture begins to form.

BCCI is the root of everything happening today - every bit of it.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

85. "It provided an excuse not to think for people who did not want to think anyway..."

So true....

[The Vinyl Ripper]

86. An appropriate Heinlein quote..

Most people can't think, most of the remainder won't think, the small fraction who do think mostly can't do it very well.

[earth mom]

91. K & R & Bookmarked. nt

[The Vinyl Ripper]

92. kick n/t