Apparent confirmation Petraeus' Bronze Star Medal with 'V' device fraudulently earned

[Cruzan]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/9/19/22357/9565

[B Calm]

1. Combat Valor Medal for what?

[Cruzan]

2. A single mortor round struck about 50 meters away -- no damage

See the above link for details.

[Squatch]

44. Have you ever been 50 meters from a mortar impact?

I have. It sucks.

[Windy]

3. If we start denegrating the man's service we are not better than the swiftboat wacks... STOP IT

You're not helping our cause!

[B Calm]

6. My dad lost three toes to frost bite in Belgium during WW2 and

never got a Purple Heart!

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. Bronze stars with a v device

are awarded to people posthumously

Not to hacks standing fifty feet away from the actual bullets

Been under fire,

I actually could have worn a medal for real valor... long story how I got that paperwork stopped, somewhere else

This man does not qualify... just for standing that FAR from the shooting

A man of honor would not do what he did, write an award and cheapen it in the process

Yes, we are a military family

Oh and if he did what is alledged, it is a court martial offense

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

12. Not if it's true.

There's a lot of people out there wearing medals they don't deserve.

[FiveGoodMen]

14. 'Scuse me, but weren't the Swiftboaters lying?

Doesn't that make a difference?

[Rex]

17. Right, we should never question anything if it involves the military.

Good to see most people here disagree with you.

[Richard Steele]

19. Wrong. That only makes sense if you believe that TRUTH is no better than LIES.

Truth and lies are not the same thing, and one is certainly BETTER than the other.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Jacobin]

45. Um, do you know what the head of CENTCOM called him?

"An ass-kissing little chicken-shit"

and yes, that's a quote

[bigtree]

4. I seriously doubt it was Petraeus who engineered the medal

There have to be several recommendations from superiors and others. To say that he earned it fraudulently doesn't pass the smell test anymore than the arguments over Kerry's medals did.

[Connie_Corleone]

5. Keep the focus on Bush!

Trying to prove Petraeus earned a medal fraudently is just as bad as the swiftboating of Kerry.

Petraeus is not the issue. Bush and Cheney are our main concern.

Going after Petraeus regarding his war record is just political suicide.

[NoPasaran]

7. Thank you!

This is Bush's War.

Petraeus is just a spokesmodel.

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. From a troop point of view this is not a minor thing

this is a court martial offense

I know you don't get it, but I just forwarded this to my US Senator, asking for an investigation

[uppityperson]

16. thanks nadine and cruzan for posting

[brentspeak]

11. Agreed, 100%

Unless Petraeus himself was personally involved in smearboating Kerry, this is not something that should be pursued. If the military wants to pursue it, fine.

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. If he did it, this is a court martial offense

I know for most civilians it is hard to understand why this should be pursued

Lets just say an Admiral commited suicide over a similar matter, over a medal he earned, but the military lost the paperwork over

He was disgraced.

I cannot truly convey to you how serious, if true, this is

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

26. He lied to Congress. That's a court martial offense.

We already know the guy's a liar and a disgrace.

[nadinbrzezinski]

29. Was he sworn in?

I believe Ike Skelton didn't

And if he lied to congress, and was not sworn in, there is no perjury

By the by, that is for the civilian courts to decide, not the military justice system

Little things like swearing in are important and one of the things pointed out by the Code Pink folks.

Though you are right, he lied to congress, but the question is, did he commit perjury

With the medal is... did he get it on the up and up, or was this a case of award inflation and did he deserve it?

[hootinholler]

32. Matters not if he was sworn in.

Misleading Congress is a felony.

It is also a matter for the civilian courts and falls under UCMJ only as conduct unbecoming or some other thing like that.

The thing about the medal that smells the most to me is that had it been legit the republics and the media would have been all over it.

-Hoot

[nadinbrzezinski]

33. It actually matters

misleading is differnt from perjury, and misleading can be more difficult to prove

The gimme for the Military would be Conduct Unbecoming

As to the medal... it smells to high heaven

Damn I respect folks wearing idiocy awards but the cheapening of the awards just got to stop

[hootinholler]

34. The point was that the same proof of perjury applies even without the oath.

It's just a different charge. If he lied, it's still a crime and he can be charged.

-Hoot

[SpiralHawk]

10. typical lying republicon homelander

the republicon's always lie about thier military service -- just following the lead of Commander AWOL Bush

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. This has nothing to do with party

he is a peace time careerist, political careerist

If a dem was in charge and he had to lie to get his fourth star... yes check the footage from the house to the senate, overnight he got the fourth star, he would have.

See Westmoreland

He is cut form the same cloth as westy who lied for LBJ

[SpiralHawk]

48. But it is definitively REPIUBLICON behavior

That is beyond argument

[Disturbed]

20. Can something be "earned" fraudulently?

I agree, going after Betrayus is counter productive. People either believed his BS or did not. Busholini & Darth should be the focus.

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. Yes

do you need me to spell it to you?

[uppityperson]

15. well we better condemn dailykos for speaking against him then. I'm confused

condemn free speech, bah. And another bah is this is true. OK, if this is true, does that mean we can criticize him without being condemned?

[0rganism]

22. That's an observation with attached accusation, not a confirmation

A "confirmation" would include at least the following:
(1) retrieval and examination of the citation documents (via FOIA if necessary)
(2) evidence (even indirect) that said citation was issued either
(_a) on false premise (i.e. cited events did not occur), or
(_b) for the wrong reasons (i.e. cited events occurred but did not merit commendation of this sort)

Until we have such "confirmation", the writer risks the overall credibility not only of himself, but also of those who rely on him, in an incredibly hostile mass-media environment. Whether or not this credibility really matters is certainly debatable, and arguments not to examine the subject further on the basis of political expedience strike me as naive, but as it stands now I have not seen sufficient evidence to support the accusation as such. Nor is it incumbent on Gen. Petraeus to produce the medal citation himself for scrutiny; those who make the claim are responsible for providing the supporting evidence.

There are reasons enough to call bullshit on the general's Iraq report and its supposed implications without publicly impugning his military honors -- but it does present an interesting angle of attack if something on the order of a true "confirmation" occurs. However, "swiftboating" an active military commander is dangerous ground to hold, and those who venture onto it can expect retribution in some form even if their charges are well-supported.

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. And this is why I am asking for an investigation of this

allegation to my US Senator

If there is enough to prove that the general did not deserve the award and it was earned fraudelently, it is a UCMJ violation and a court martial offense

If this was corporal so and so, it would not matter, OUTSIDE the US military, well it would, extra points when applying to a federal job... by the way

But here we are talking of the OIC... who has a reputation for being a careerist

And I will be honest, after going through his official record, the award did smell

[B Calm]

25. Great points!

[0rganism]

27. gathering more information is the correct approach, IMHO

If your senator is sympathetic and well-positioned, he may be able to really get at the heart of the matter. If the medal is fraudulent, then the shit hits a lot of fans all the way up in the chain of command. I wouldn't expect the senator to mention it in public though, even if/when he puts someone on his staff to work doing the background research.

Passing the smell test is one thing, having hard evidence that a serious violation occurred is quite another.

[nadinbrzezinski]

31. I do what I can which is to ask

those who have the connections to go... hey boy FETCH

;-)

[murloc]

23. Isn't "apparent" and "confirmation" pretty much the opposite?

FWIW, Id like to know if its apparently fraudulent, or confirmed fraudulent.

It certainly cannot be both.

[Disturbed]

30. I certainly approve of the action of having a Senator investigate

this matter. Betrayus has expressed a desire to run for Pres. in 2012. It would obviously matter in that case.

[mark414]

35. remember how angry we were when they did this shit to Kerry?

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. There are differences and I am afraid I cannot

convey them to you.

This is about lying about your official record, and claiming to have done what you did not

I'd like to see the documenation over that medal... and they ARE a matter of public record

All citations are... and where this happened, supposedly, is not even classified

[mark414]

39. all the differences in the world won't mean spit

if people start reading headlines like "Democrats Attack Petraeus Military Medals"

[nadinbrzezinski]

41. All the differences in the world will mean spit

if a military court finds that the man commited fraud and takes him from O-9 to E-1 and takes him to Leavenworth

Which is the nature of the offense.

I know... you care for the politics of it, I care for the old fashioned not lying to get ahead and cheapen awards that soldiers care for, and many have died for. Been a troop, so has been my husband. Sorry, politics at this point, if the man got it fraudelently, don't matter.

In the end Kerry produced the citations... I want the citation from this fool, and I want to know WHO signed it

Fifty yards from a mortar strike does not deserve a Bronze Star with a V device

But it sure looks good before a promotion board...

By the way his fourth star was awarded in between testimonies

If you don't smell a rat I don't know what will it take.

By the by, this is not the time for promotion lists either

[Richard Steele]

40. No, I don't remember- when did they tell the truth about Kerry?

[mark414]

43. i was referring simply to attacking one's service

whether the attack is truth or not.

carrying on about this is a stupid and horrible idea and will only serve as ammo for Republicans to go on and on about how much Democrats hate the military

[Richard Steele]

46. The repubs will ALWAYS "go on and on about how much Democrats hate the military", no matter what.

"Ammo" doesn't really enter into it.

And it's not "attacking his service", it's pointing out
his dishonesty and lack of integrity. Wearing a medal
he's not entitled to is -NOT- "service" in any way.

Do you think Dubya's shameful actions during his
briefer-than-the-law-allows time in uniform should
be similarly "off limits"? I don't.

[B Calm]

49. Big fucking difference!

[charlie]

36. CNO Jeremy Boorda killed himself

over the same charges, remember that? Real shame, that one, Boorda was a good guy. And it turned out that showboating fucktard Hackworth, who handled point in hounding him, was also guilty of sporting unauthorized medals.

[cascadiance]

37. For a minute I was wondering if they were giving him one of these!...

as a "V" device! :)

[JVS]

42. Let's mock him until he shoots himself from the shame!

[B Calm]

47. It will take more than this to shame this bastard!