Debunking "The Myth of 60 Votes and Fillibuster"...what our Dems Could Do.....but don't

[KoKo]

The Filibuster: now painless and more convenient than ever!
by Kagro X
Thu Sep 20, 2007 at 07:22:43 AM PDT

Webb Amendment Failure:

Instead, the reason the Webb amendment failed even though it got 56 votes was that Senators agreed by unanimous consent that the amendment should have to get 60 votes to pass, even without a filibuster.

But why would anyone agree to allow Republicans, who are already on pace to shatter all previous filibuster records, to stop an amendment this important and this sensible without even lifting a finger? And the question here is not just why anyone would allow it, but why everyone did. A single Senator could have put a stop to this simply by saying, "I object" when the unanimous consent request was made. Just one Senator.

Yet none did.

Not Harry Reid. Not Russ Feingold. Not Bernie Sanders.

Nobody.

-snip-

And so the Webb amendment died quietly yesterday, allowing Republicans to enjoy all the obstructionist benefits of a filibuster, without having to stand up and tell Americans and their fighting men and women in the military exactly what they were doing. And not a moment was "wasted" on the "extended debate" that's supposed to make up a filibuster.

Everyone just politely agreed that 56-44 would be a losing vote for America's sons and daughters wearing the uniform in Iraq and Afghanistan. And they did it on national television. And America yawned, hit the snooze button, and slept in.


In the coming days, the Congress will be dealing with the appropriations bills for fiscal year 2008. President Bush has threatened to veto almost every single one of them, which would leave the United States without any spending authority come October 1. That's ten days from now. The president says he's going to veto everything, and we have ten days to see if he's serious, decide what to do in case he is, and then figure out a way to get funding passed.

But hey, since those veto threats are pending, why not just agree to unanimous consent requests in both the House and the Senate that the appropriations bills will require a 2/3 vote to pass? Since they're going to be vetoed, why not just spare poor President Bush the trouble and the wear and tear on his veto crayon, and agree up front that if a bill doesn't pass with a veto-proof majority, it shouldn't be considered passed at all?

Because that's the logical extension of what happened yesterday. And the truth is, it makes no less sense. We don't know that Bush has the will to veto these bills any more than we knew that Republicans had the will to filibuster the Webb amendment. And I mean really filibuster. Not wait out a one-day cloture petition, beat it, and then break for lunch. But really stand on their feet day in and day out, live on C-SPAN2, and tell America they think our troops should spend more time in combat, and their families should just shut up about it.

Until recently, cloture votes were the easy way out of a filibuster. Forty-one Senators had only to make their protest last long enough to make it to the cloture vote, beat it, and then bask in their victory as the majority pulled the "defeated" legislation from the floor and slunk away. But believe it or not, Senate Democrats have found an easier way to do this, and begin slinking even earlier.

Bravo.


More of the article... and a good read! ...at

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/9/20/83313/0324

[KoKo]

1. ...

[karlrschneider]

2. Recommended for anyone with low blood pressure

...

[Trisket-Bisket]

3. A new superhero?

Who is Kaygro X? A new organic fertilizer? The proposal suggested was a disaster for Gingrich in 1995.

[Raster]

8. Oh please. It was a disaster for Newty because he was an arrogant, obnoxious, hypocritical asshole.

It is disingenuous at best to compare the Democrats in 2007 to the rethuglicans in 1995. One main difference: this country DESPERATELY wants closure to the bush* Iraq clusterfuck. Gingrich and his rethuglicans were throwing tantrum and inflicted needless pain because of pride and greed.
BTW, welcome to DU!

Cowards and collaborators!:kick:Wake up, America!

[Trisket-Bisket]

11. Thank you for the welcome.

I only wish I could share your opinion about the mood of the country. Always I think that this has to be the last straw but the people seem not to care.

[niceypoo]

57. Um, Bush is an arrogant, obnoxious, hypocritical asshole

[kwyjibo]

4. We're being manipulated.

Democrats knew this would happen and meant for it to happen. Why bother? Why pretend to care when it's so obvious that they don't?

[AtomicKitten]

5. It's because the Dems allow the Repubs to control the process.

[DUyellow]

6. The dems in office are f*ing lossers

[KoKo]

7. It's more that their "strategy" doesn't seem to be there...and it's hard to know

what to make of their actions. Why have Webb do the work to put up an Amendment then they all shoot it in the foot before it can walk? :shrug:

[DUyellow]

9. I am sick of them

[KoKo]

22. We have to find ways to change this...but it's better to know what's going on than not....

We didn't know ....now it's becoming like the "writing on the wall...writ for all to read."

Until we knew the full problem...how could we have dealt with it? In some ways we are fighting against "our own" now...to make reforms that are sorely needed. How will we do this? We are still learning...

[DUyellow]

50. agree

[Elidor]

10. Reid isn't even making them filibuster!

If the GOP actually had to follow through on all these "filibusters," they'd become a national spectacle on C-span. They'd also wear themselves out quickly. But the Senate leadership sees the votes and says, "Oh, well, I guess they don't like this bill. Let's move on." Yeah, don't make them sweat Harry. Don't want to cause a scene, eh?

This is not leadership by any stretch of the imagination. We have fucking punks and idiots for leaders on The Hill. There is no fight in any of them. They run around like witless children, unsure of what to do. I have never been more disgusted with the party. Reid needs to step down. So does Pelosi. FUCKING FAIL.

*and today's absurd vote against MoveOn is further proof that these idiots do not get it. Apparently they will never get it.

[Richard Steele]

29. If Reid got a postcard that said "this is a stickup", he'd mail the sender his wallet and watch.

That's what this "non-filibuster" filibuster CRAP feels like to me.

If they want to threaten EVERY bill with filibuster, make
them actually DO IT before declaring that they've won.

[tbyg52]

32. You got it--they give up without a fight

They *assume* they can't win.

[KoKo]

12. ....

[Junkdrawer]

13. Good Cop...Bad Cop....All working for the same bosses...

I came to that conclusion reluctantly in 2003 and it's still the only way I can explain what I see year after year.

[tom_paine]

16. I didn't want to believe it. I STILL don't want to believe it.

I don't wish to believe the heaps and heaps and HEAPS of evidence seen with my lying eyes and heard with my lying ears.

The details of the whys and wherefores may be different than what you postulate, but the result is the same.

74% of the Amerikan People have 0% representation.

And I think nearly one-half of us like it that way.

[Junkdrawer]

19. Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends....

I'm so glad you could attend, come inside, come inside...

[KoKo]

23. The only good thing is that ...it's Coming Out...it's so bad that nothing can be concealed

about "complicity" much longer. Identify the problem and deal with it. (I know it's wishful thinking and "big talk" to say that...I'm as upset as the rest of you)...but what can we do but keep on trying to work for the truth and to make the reforms. Who woulda' thunk....we'd have to deal with our own...or those we thought "might be" our own.

[bobbolink]

38. You're right... it's very painful. It's why some have given up... it hurts too much to look

straight at it.

I think this is precisely why so many don't vote in this country, although not a lot would be able to voice it half as clearly as you have.

Believing your "lying eyes and ears" leads to a sinking, hopeless feeling that isn't easy to live with.

It takes courage to see the reality of it.

The simplicity of truth in your words. :thumbsup:

[Dr Fate]

14. The DLCers & "centrists" call it "keeping your powder dry"-we do it even when we are the majority.

I'm also sick of cowards & losers who claim to represent the majority.

Oh well, at least the DEMS can join Rush Limbaugh, FOX News and George Bush in attacking Moveon.

[annabanana]

15. I am faxing that with circles and arrows to my critters. . n/t

[The Vinyl Ripper]

17. The anthrax killer is still on the loose..

And Congress has absolutely zero interest in the case.

Despite the fact that anthrax was sent to two Congressional leaders.

I wonder why that might be?

"Such beautiful grandchildren you have, it would be a terrible shame if anything were to happen to them".

[harun]

18. That one still perplexes me too.

[pat_k]

20. A "Sense of the Senate" resolution: Send us Articles of Impeachment

Until the Congressional leadership takes aim with the only "lethal" weapon in their arsenal they will just keep proving they are impotent losers. They will continue to earn the contempt of more and more Americans. "The decider" will keep steamrolling them, and the nation.

Does anyone here actually believe that bushncheney would have any qualms about raiding the treasury to "stay the course"??

They're proven criminals. They don't hesitate to violate any law to achieve their ends. How many times do they have to prove it?

Bush's declared his intent to violate McCain's anti-torture amendment with a signing statement -- an amendment which passed the Senate 90-9. Even if 90 Senators refused to fund the occupation, Bush would just invoke the unitary authoritarian power to "stay the course."

Since Bush and Cheney have openly -- even proudly -- turned the USA into a war criminal nation that spies on its own citizens, there is absolutely NO investigation required. There is NO legitimate defense. There is absolutely no reason for Senators to "reserve judgment." It's long past time for the Senate "leadership" to call on the House to immediately send up Articles of Impeachment.

[MrCoffee]

21. I honestly believe that Harry Reid has NO IDEA what the Senate Rules are

it's either that or he's corrupt.

[KoKo]

26. I think maybe there are folks in Congress that really don't care about the Constitution

in that it's not relevant to the Lobbyists writing their bills and their own ego's and ambition.

I think the days of a Robert Byrd walking around with a copy of Constitution in his pocket and memories of growing up poor and what it means to "compromise" are gone. Not that Byrd was any saint...but he had a "sense of America." I think that America is gone and we need to be looking at compromise on Globilization that will at least give some rights to the "masses of people" who aren't the top 1%.

We need to rethink how we can make the North American Corridor from Mexico to Canada work for US Peoples...rather than the Corporations...if it's going to be rammed down our throat. America in our History books is gone. BUT we need to make things better for the common peoples all over the world and to do that we have to accept we've lost the battle on some fronts but work to do what we can to equalize the playing field. That's all I can hope for in the depths of sadness over what we are seeing.

[ellisonz]

24. Rubbish.

[in_cog_ni_to]

25. We're being played for fools and it's all just a dog and pony show to wait it out

until after the primaries. I heard a reporter on C-SPAN this morning say that the Democrats have decided to "JUST PLAY TO THE STALEMATE" until after the primaries when the repukes will then vote with them.

[KoKo]

27. What IS IT...that the "Dog & Pony Show" will achieve, though?

What good does a strong Dem Candidate do if our country has been given away? How does this help either side? :shrug:

[tom_paine]

28. It holds the whole crooked ball of wax together, don't you see?

Someone once said this to me years ago, and I nodded then but had no real idea the depth of what it meant until lately.

The person said

It seems to me that everyone knows it can't last, that the American Experiment in self-governance is in fact, OVER, and I think the Democrats are at the point of 'just trying to hold it all togteher' anymore.

Think about what it means on a personal level, to anyone who has contemplated significant action against the Loyal Bushies (by which I mean civil disobedience or General Strikes, NOT violence) is stayed by what?

Because to do so, particularly in this day and age, means life's ruination, mostlikely, and the inability to get a job in the future, and all the home loss, health care loss and everything else that comes with p0ersonal economic calamity.

So, at our level of being Little Nobodies, the loss of these small things, which are really no small things at all when one has been raised in realative comfort of the Old American Middle Class, stays our hands.

How do you think that works up at the highest levels? No, they aren't afraid of losing their jobs, because they have Socialized Healthcare for life, and wealth beyond what any Amerikan Serf could reasonably dream of.. They are afraid, ultimately, of We the People doing a Bastille on their asses.

Although the histories of previous Bush-alikes, such as Hitler and Caesar, never had to worry about that, so I have serious doubts whether that is a legitimate fear from a people so broken and enslaved as the Imperial Subjects of Amerika.

In either case, it is not the fact, it is the FEAR of it happening. They fear the 26% of Loyal Crazy Bushies, at least half of whom would gladly murder the entire Democratic Senate, so long as Bush told them they had been designated as Enemy Combatants and it was OK to do so. They fear the 74% of Loyal Americans with no representation because the Bushies have maneuvered them, as they always do, into a no-win situation.

Represent the 74% of American with no representationhonestly = envelope of anthrax or Wellstoning or maybe just some good old career destruction by the Bush Lie Laundry and Sub-Media...less blood that way.

Roll over and sell out the Filthy Little Nobodies, who have NOTHING to do with who rules Amerika now, and keep the whole ball of wax together, praying the relative rationality of the 74% of Americans with 0% representation will keep Bastille Day from happening any sooner.

Considering that a majority of Bushievik folowers, I believe, have already had their weak minds reprogrammed with Nazi-style pathways which promote easy reprogrammability for their Bushie Masters, this may be a sound strategy if your mission is to keep the whole ball of wax together so that your cushy life remains undisturbed for as long as possible.

No one will ever know exactly what "goings on behind the scenes" has cause the Democratic Party to be essentially neutralized with fear, but the fact is that it just is. Plus, failing any of the theories as to why this is, a defualt position would be the same reason why nobody is taking to the streets.

Because almost everyone, yes DUers too, wants just to keep the whole ball of wax together until we are safely dead. The Imperial Congress, too. THAT idea may well be their only true Master.

[KoKo]

36. If you with your views are here with me, with my views which go along with yours ...then

why don't we just give up? The "writing was on the wall" so why did we stay?

:shrug: What can we do?

[tom_paine]

51. What can we do? We can stand and be true.

We can do everything we feel right about, everything our conscience will allow, to keep fighting Bushevik Tyranny, even if the cause is lost. It's no less than the Founding Fathers gave us when they won their revolution and gave us our Republic "if we can keep it".

It's no less than their memory deserves.

The point is to go down fighting, if we are to go down, and the point is never give up because striving against tyranny is one of our duties as human beings, I believe.

So many people here misunderstand me, thinking i am one of these people who get off on crying "woe betides us. We're doomed."

Actually, quite the opposite. I would give anything to be able to reasonably make a case that we aren't, at the very least, damned close to losing our liberty in every sense of the word.

But I can't. At least, and not be true to my own analysis of the evidence as well as that of my eyes and ears.

Most DUers don't know it, likely, because the instances are so rare, but I mark EVERY hopeful thing I come across with a happy or congratulatory post.

Really. They're all archived on DU servers with everything else I have ever posted.

I will NEVER give up fighting the Bushies, and all tyrannies over the mind of men, to paraphrase Tom Jefferson, my second favorite Founding Father.

I hope this clears some things up.

[Demeter]

56. A la Lanterne!

http://66.218.71.231/language/translation/translatedPage.php?lp=fr_en&text=http%3a%2f%2ffr.wikipedia.org%2fwiki%2fAh_%2521_%25C3%25A7a_ira

They asked for it, they will get it. And it better be soon! I hope I live long enough to see Retribution pour down like fire on those who would destroy the greatest experiment for their selfish, petty gains.

[in_cog_ni_to]

30. I think they're just buying time with their little shows. They're waiting until after the primaries

because the repukes told them they will vote with them AFTER their primaries. It does NOTHING to help them NOW and they are banking on our short memories come 2008. Mid-2008 they will pass all of these resolutions with a veto-proof Majority and then we'll all be happy because we will have forgotten what happened on September 20, 2007.

[KoKo]

37. But...then "after Primaries" when the Dem Presidential Candidate is Picked

do they then suddenly ROLL BACK THE BUSH AGENDA? Or, do they WAIT...and promise us ...they will get to us...once a Dem President is ELECTED with ALL BUSH'S POWERS INTACT and with the Doctrine of Pre-Emptive Strike Anywhere and Torture Everywhere is IN PLACE?

Would we want those awesome powers that have been given to Bush to Transfer? How will we know if any Dem President would REVERSE THEM...and NOT ABUSE THOSE POWERS...given by BUSH..with an enabling Dem Congress both Out of Power and now "In Power?"

Who can we TRUST THESE DAYS? :shrug:

[tbyg52]

31. Dammit, I am tired of this fake filibuster

If they wanna filibuster, make 'em stand up and talk. They let it lapse, up or down vote!

[KoKo]

33. Is this what "they've been doing" that's caused us Dems out here to be upset?

How could they? :shrug: when they asked us to sign petitions, give money and go against the RW we live with to donate to them...and put yard signs out where Dems were targeted and to show up at demonstrations where Dems are culled out and put in jail?

THIS is what the NEW DEM CONGRESS...is all about? :cry: tears for whatever this is...it isn't what we thought..and we can't pass it along to our Grandchildren....

[KoKo]

34. Is this the Truth...or ae there any counter arguments? n/t

[porphyrian]

35. I'll kick that. - n/t

[toadzilla]

39. our democracy is gone. we live in a one party system.

the democrats are just better actors. i don't know what to do anymore...

[Individualist]

40. K&R

[JVS]

41. Wow. Way to suck ass

[Nimrod2005]

42. K

[AuntPatsy]

43. I thought the reasoning was that if they didn't get sixty then bushy could play veto

push pen once again which he is well known to do and his threats to do so are taken seriously since all know too well he would do so without batting an eyelash. So is that true? You say we don't know he would veto such? Considering what he stands for and all he has done and said, I don't know, I would say he would have done just that.

[KoKo]

44. It's worrysome they give up saying "Bush will Veto ...so what's the point...

Yet they manage to spend time on getting language together for Amendments and give Press Releases to the Media...and then the vote comes...and it's a "done deal" before the vote even is counted?

Why didn't we know this months ago? It's the way we knew the Repugs did Business...but we didn't think our Dems would CONTINUE the Practice!

That's why it's important about the new President. What if a new President decides to rule the way the Repugs did by being an Imperial President. All the POWER BUSHIES have Obtained by Stealing and Thug Tactics will now go to the NEXT President. After our Dems in Congress are acting like the Repugs hiding the way they vote from the People like the Repugs who put the change in Rules in...WHY should we expect any President in the future to give BACK what BUSH HAS TAKEN as an IMPERIAL?

That's what's worrisome. :-(

[AuntPatsy]

45. Worrisome indeed, no one regardless of party affiliation should have that much control.

I have another question then, why does the prez have that kind of power?

[KoKo]

46. From what I've read...it started with Reagan.. Repugs felt Nixon lost power

and after he resigned the Repugs VOWED..."NEVER AGAIN" would any Repug President be allowed to be taken down by press or anyone.

:shrug: It seems they've succeeded and the glimmer of that power now is in our Dem's eyes, too.

What a mess we have...

[AuntPatsy]

47. I have heard that, what I find a bit unnerving is that it is now well know

that Reagan was not in his right mind for quite some time so who was the man behind the curtain? And it is the same one standing behind the newest re pub prez with similar mental disabilities? If so, they have had quite some time to smooth out the rough edges in ensuring they never lose again regardless of what they stand accused of right or wrong, find the man behind the curtain and perhaps we can finally put an end to this obvious grand scheme that seems to designed to destroy our democracy once and for all....

[KoKo]

48. what you say: "find the right man behind the curtain."

It's chilling...:-(

[IronLionZion]

58. Let him veto

We miss all the shots we don't take. The least we can do is try. If he vetoes, then it will always be on the record that he vetoed it. This helps us and hurts the war profiteering party.

[robinlynne]

49. I have been saying this over and over. And people want to know why we are angry?

[bigtree]

52. didin't we already have one of those overnighters?

good to highlight an issue, hasn't been persuasive though. I really don't know what the effect would be on the institution and it's ability to function (more going on than militarism). There is the support personnel to consider, as the majority leader rightly did in his gracious comments after the last 'extended debate'. I don't think the leadership was able to get enough legislators to agree to continue it. It would be good for them to try it again I suppose. But, don't C-span viewers and the rest know the score?

[liberalla]

53. the wear and tear on his veto crayon...

Thank you for the link - this is a worthwhile read.

[The Stranger]

54. Unfuckingbelievable.

[KoKo]

55. ...

[plantwomyn]

59. Wrote and posted and this 7:55 the same day.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3536069&mesg_id=3536069

[McCamy Taylor]

60. Dems want to look in control is my guess, but they look like wimps instead

Would be so much better if they forced the GOP to stage an actual filibuster for each and every important bill that came up, so that America could witness the GOP obstructionism--with a great big money clock keeping track of how much tax money the GOP is wasting through the filibuster!.

The thing is, the Dems over estimate their audience. They think that America will look at what is going on in Congress and say "The Republicans are blocking all action." However, the corporate media is telling America "The Dems are pussies who can not get anything done."

The GOP knows exactly how intelligent their base is. They have been getting the poor SOBs to vote against their own economic self interests for years. They know how to manipulate the press and how to put on a media circus. The GOP is winning this media war.

[f the letter]

61. what a useless congress

Please do _something_, anything remotely helpful will do at this point. Just convince me not to start doing write-in votes for cartoon characters come next election, who will likely do no more harm than this crowd.

[KoKo]

62. ...