Ladies and Gentlemen, may I introduce the "Betray Us" Caucus of the Democratic Party

[berni_mccoy]

Baucus (D-MT)
Bayh (D-IN)
Cardin (D-MD)
Carper (D-DE)
Casey (D-PA)
Conrad (D-ND)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Johnson (D-SD)
Klobuchar (D-MN)
Kohl (D-WI)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Leahy (D-VT)
Lincoln (D-AR)
McCaskill (D-MO)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Nelson (D-FL)
Nelson (D-NE)
Pryor (D-AR)
Salazar (D-CO
Tester (D-MT)
Webb (D-VA)

I have to give them credit, they've already lived up to their name.

[soleft]

1. If I was going to cut anyone slack it would probably be Webb

He has a son in the military and he was secretary of defence.

[JTFrog]

16. But he also voted for the FISA bill.

Wasn't he secretary of the navy not defense?

[soleft]

18. Yes, I believe you are correct. Thanks.

[Skidmore]

2. I'd say at least 80% of those people are the usual suspects.

I don't get Mikulski these days. She's had some pretty unexpected votes in the recent past.

[TwilightGardener]

3. Please--maybe they really just didn't like the Betrayus ad. I thought it

was stupid myself. They all voted for Webb-Hagel and Habeas corpus. That's what really matters, not this.

[TechBear_Seattle]

9. Restoration of the Alien and Sedition Acts would be a good thing?

See Alien and Sedition Acts in the Wikipedia.

[leftchick]

17. regardless of how one felt about it

to condemn it is to condemn free speech. It is as simple as that. I fucking hate a lot of what wing nuts say, yet they have a right to say it just as moveon does. Or at least used to.

[TwilightGardener]

19. I don't see it that way. You can condemn it without restricting the right to say it.

[Eric J in MN]

4. The Republicans did this to get activists like us mad at Democratic Senators.

I refuse to get mad over this.

The resolution conflates a general with the troops:

"To express the sense of the Senate that General David H. Petraeus, Commanding General, Multi-National Force-Iraq, deserves the full support of the Senate and strongly condemn personal attacks on the honor and integrity of General Petraeus and all members of the United States Armed Forces."

That way, a Democratic Senator can vote Yes and get activists like us mad, or vote No and Republicans can run ads saying he or she think "all members of the United States Armed Forces" lack "integrity."

[berni_mccoy]

6. I can believe that, but why even let this crap get a floor vote?

[RiverStone]

12. Wondering the same thing???

How the hell did it make it to the floor at all? :shrug:

[Eric J in MN]

28. It was an amendment. Unlike Republicans, who bar amendments...

...from the minority party, the Democrats believe the minority party should be able to submit amendments to a vote.

[robinlynne]

44. THat is supposed to be in our power......

[JackRiddler]

10. That's right.

And then they put a taser gun to the head of these Democrats and MADE them vote for the resolution. The bastards.

[Dr Fate]

25. Yes- those poor, unwitting DEMS were "fooled" by Bush once again.

n/t

[Eric J in MN]

29. Regarding the Democrats who voted No...

....the Republicans may run ads saying they support attacking the "honor and integrity" of the troops.

[JackRiddler]

37. Please, are we in the Twilight Zone here?

The Republicans can and have done most anything, regardless of how who voted. This is a ridiculous rationalization, when increasing majorities oppose the war and the occupation in fact has failed, as is becoming ever more obvious.

Stop rationalizing! This is shameful.

[robinlynne]

45. so what? fuck the republicans. They can and do terrible things. But are you going to cower

to them over and over in the hope that they will start to play nice?

[Dr Fate]

23. It's the DEMS who agree with Bush & FOX news who fell right into their trap-not us.

We didnt fall into a GOP trap- we are disgusted with DEMS who DID.

[FiveGoodMen]

24. And the Dem Senators had an easy defense: don't condemn the truth!

Guess they didn't think of that.

[superkia]

27. They sleep in the same bed, thats why it happens.

Look back to 2002 to and where everyone stood on the Iraq war. One person stood up and said the war was about oil and voted no, while the others stood up next to the republicans, voted yes and continued to fund it. Was Dennis Kucinich the only one who was smart enough to see what it was about or were they behind what was about to take place? Handing that loaded gun to Bush and continuing to give him ammo as he asked for it is UNFORGIVABLE to me. We need leaders that will face the truth, stand up for the people and defend the truth and not be bought. If we are not willing to elect a leader with those qualities, this shit will continue but get worse and we will all still be complaining about the opposite party.

Its like watching WWE wrestling, theres a good side and a bad side, they hate each other on tv but are all in it together to make a money. We sit back and eat it up!

[Kolesar]

5. Uh, oh. Another one of "these" threads!

:cry:

[maxsolomon]

7. the center right of the Democratic Party

in contrast to the center left.

cross reference with who's up for reelection in 08.

[cali]

39. Really?

Senator Leahy is the center right? That must be why he's been rated as one of the ten most liberal Senators for thw last 30 years.

[maxsolomon]

43. the exception does not disprove the rule

but i'm just venting.

i really am a 'far left' liberal, so they'll never satisfy me. and they never have.

[Ino]

8. What's the criteria for making this list?

McCaskill voted for the funding in the spring, and to extend the warrantless wiretapping (and got angry emails from me for it!) But she voted with the good guys yesterday. Has she done something else I need to hate her for?

Edited to add: Never mind. I figured it out from other threads.

[cali]

11. What utter nonense n/t

[endarkenment]

13. There are two actual political parties.

The Corporate Kleptocracy and War Party has 74-75 votes in the Senate and a majority in the house.

The Working Families Party has 25-26 votes in the Senate and is the minority party in the House.

In order to confuse the voting population, the Corporate Kleptocracy and War Party runs its candidates in both nominal and de facto institutionalized political parties, the Democratic Party and the Republican Party. It is a pretty good game they are running, their little duopoly scam has been working for them for quite some time. It is however exposed and naked for all to see right now. We need to stop being delusional about the problem.

[whirlygigspin]

14. waffles?

In honor of their great service, here is the soundboard from 'Full Metal Jacket'
If you play with it a while, you might feel better


http://www.starmuscle.com/2007/01/11/full-metal-jacket-soundboard/

[originalpckelly]

15. I think MoveOn fucked up, and I'm a member.

I do not like the advertisement, it's inappropriate to politically attack generals, just as the reverse is true. When we muddy the waters between the separation of civilian leadership and military leadership, we increase the possibility of a military dictatorship. We have been slowly marching down a dangerous path, the same path as the Romans. We must not allow this journey to continue, for if we do, the America we used to know is truly gone forever.

[Eric J in MN]

30. Partially agree, partially disagree.

I'm also a MoveOn member. I don't think that "Betray" should have been in the headline.

However, I like the rest of the ad. It's important to examine the truthfulness of someone about to tell Congress we should stay in Iraq, including a general.

[endarkenment]

35. Militarism, a key element of fascism.

The general is just another politician and deserves no more respect than any other high poobah lying his ass of in our legislature to our elected representatives: he lied to us. I refuse to fawn before the uniformed clowns. Sorry, we are all equals.

[Neecy]

20. gee....

I'm so fucking glad I donated to and worked for Claire McCaskill last year. What a slap in the face! Jesus Christ!

[Eric J in MN]

31. Thank you for supporting McCaskill.

She's a million times better than her opponent.

She decided not to stick her neck out on a symbolic vote. That's not such a big deal.

[cali]

21. Please.

Senator Leahy WROTE and SPONSORED the Habeas Restoration Act, The War Profiteering Prevention Act, Held the hearings that FORCED Gonzo, Rove and others out, wrote legislation preventing the sale of Cluster bombs to Israel, voted against the IW, voted against funding the Iraq war, voted for the Feingold Amendment today (which many of your heroes did NOT do) and yet, because of his vote on this stupid resolution he's now an ENEMY?

Please explain.

[Eric J in MN]

32. What happened to "The War Profiteering Prevention Act"? NT

NT

[cali]

38. Here's a link to THOMAS

It was introduced in January. I don't know why it hasn't been moved to a vote.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d110:s.00119:

[Geek_Girl]

36. I really like Leahy and am Complete shocked by this vote

It's very odd and the whole thing strikes me as dumb.

[cali]

40. I don't know why he voted for it

I wish he hadn't but it hardly means he's the enemy.

[Dr Fate]

22. Imagine getting these cowards to vote to censure Bush or Dick Cheney. LOL!!!

!!!!

[IA_Seth]

26. I'm a member!

The ad was lots of things, but effective wasn't one of them.

[gaspee]

33. Whew

I'm relieved to see that neither of my Senators, Whitehouse and Reed, voted aye.

I'm not surprised at the ones who did vote for it. The usual suspects. A centrist democrat in 2007 = right wing republican @ 1975.

[book_worm]

34. yeah boy, too bad Burns didn't win in Montana and Allen in VA

last year--boy would they have been an improvement. Ricky Santorum would be quite an improvement over Casey too.

[XOKCowboy]

41. Salazar again. /*SHEESH* That means CO voted for that stupid measure

'cause ya know for sure Wayne Allard voted for it.

[Roy]

42. You have to admire the republicans in a back handed way

Not only do they smear, denigrate, and walk all over democrats, they have little or no trouble getting democrats to join them in doing so.

[robinlynne]

46. I am in absolute agreement.