The repubs fired up the wrong base over the Move-On ad.

[trumad]

They thought they fired up their base with the attack on Move-On... snarf.

They fired up our base far more than they did theirs.

This will turn out to be a monumental blunder by the idiot Repubs.

[rudy23]

1. The DLC also fired up the wrong base nt

[LSparkle]

6. I agree

I'll vote for REAL Democrats -- not independents or Greens or any other party -- but DLC'ers need not even contest my vote.

This week has convinced me the JOHN EDWARDS is my candidate. Between hearing that Hillary hires goons to throw people out of her rallies, Obama's refusal to take HRC on, and now this exercise in spinelessness on behalf of most currently-serving Dems, I have decided to go for the ultimate outsider, Mr. Edwards. I can only pray for Al Gore comes out and endorses him before the Hillary steamroller ruins '08 for all of us.

[LoZoccolo]

2. Nope, that's exactlly what they wanted.

This you see here on General Discussion today? It's the Rove-a-matic in action. They just had to push the button.

[Mythsaje]

4. I don't think I like your implication...n/t

[LoZoccolo]

8. Every strategist knows how useful it is to divide your opposition.

I am not implying that anyone here is an agent of Rove. Just predictable pawns.

[Mythsaje]

24. Yes, that's right...

We should refrain from criticizing stupid moves by our people on the basis that it might make a Republican jackass happy.

We should just practice the "roll-over" move because that's the way the world works.

Are we actually supposed to be patting them on the head for doing something we don't like? Is that at all constructive?

[LoZoccolo]

26. That's where you and I differ, I guess.

See I didn't say any of that, so I guess you and I part ways.

[Mythsaje]

29. Then what ARE you saying?

I'm getting the whole "we shouldn't criticize them where a Republican can see it" message here and I'm wondering what the point is?

[LoZoccolo]

32. If you have any questions about what I wrote here, just ask them.

I said what I said and you seem to be adding to it. The condemnation of these Senators is way disproportionate to the symbolic vote they took today, which is just what Rove wants. Rove wants us to stay home, vote third party, adopt the Big Green Lie, all this stuff that we're doing or threatening. Any energy we spend fighting each other and becoming demoralized is good for the Republicans.

And what if the Senators really didn't like the ad? What's the matter with that? MoveOn could have done better.

[Mythsaje]

33. See, I see it differently...

The only way to get them to change their behaviors is by yelling at them for doing stupid shit. Like this vote, which should never have made it to the floor. The Repugs have been ignoring vile comments from their own for years now...we don't need to give them the space to drag this out and wave it around like it means anything.

THAT is my primary criticism, not how any one Senator or group of Senators voted on it. It should never have hit the floor.

[LoZoccolo]

34. "The only way to get them to change their behaviors is by yelling at them..."

You're assuming that every behavior is worth the yelling. This symbolic vote is nothing, and the Republican establishment which introduced the bill in the first place was right in predicting that we'd demoralize ourselves with it (and I say demoralize ourselves because we are ultimately responsible for letting that happen).

It's also incorrect that it's the only way to change things.

[Mythsaje]

36. It's NOT nothing...

It's about free speech. Which is NOT nothing.

THERE is where we part company.

[LoZoccolo]

37. What?

The Senators practiced their own free speech today, actually. MoveOn could run the same ad tomorrow.

[tbyg52]

38. The Senate, as a branch of the national government

does not have absolute free speech. That's for us regular citizens. The *government* must respect the First Amendment.

[LoZoccolo]

41. I don't see where they disrespected it.

A question: why would you think that passing a symbolic condemnation of something is not OK, but making a speech (or one of those "one minute speeches" like James Traficant used to make all the time as the rules of the House permitted) would be OK? What are they allowed to talk about?

[tbyg52]

42. They can *talk* about anything they want

but I find an official, group condemnation, by our elected representatives, of an expression of political opinion offensive, if not actually unconstitutional. I'm not a lawyer, but I *do* think it should be interpreted as unconstitutional. Not that that will happen.....

[Caretha]

44. You give way too much credit to Rove

He ain't god (little g)

[napi21]

7. I disagree with you on this one. MoveOn has gotten more TV

and all Press coverage for their $65,000 than they EVER could have afforded to pay for! I think the only "negative" feelings all this Press will create will be in that same 28%, and the rest of the voters will not only think these Senators are stupid for even bothering to discuss this ad, but LOTS OF PEOPLE who never even heard of MoveOn now know who they are! Sounds like a dream ad to me!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

23. The corrupt Dems who voted with the Repugs did more to divide the party

than Rove could even dream of.

The senators who voted "Aye" are the ones who pushed the Rove-a-matic button.

You should give credit where credit is due.

[LoZoccolo]

25. Nope.

Not how it is at all. If you took a poll about the "betray us" ad, the little sliver of Democrats who are up in arms about this would be maybe 10% at most, probably more like 5%. But that's all that Republicans need to get in power; remember that in America, 60% is a landslide.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

31. Then it's kinda stupid for the Dem senators to split off that 10%.

Isn't it? They keep playing to the right-wing, who keep voting the Republicans in. What's that line about doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results?

[reality based]

3. I agree. This is going to bite them like their Schiavo gambit did. I'm betting we'll

soon see "Don't Betray Us! Get out of Iraq!" bumper stickers and buttons all over the place.

[KoKo]

5. When almost have of our Dem Senators voted with the Repug Base...

one wonders about the competition.

[sinkingfeeling]

9. Yep, and I bet MoveOn will have a record donation month as a result.

[Bluebear]

10. You said it trumad

[jackster]

11. I hope so....

but I don't know....

it never would have been a story if the talking bobbleheads hadn't gone on and on about it

they've framed the message....

AGAIN!

[trumad]

13. Thing is---

They simply can't frame like the old days...especially about the war.

There are thousands of Move-On members and more joining as I type this, that are fired up over this.

[budibudinski]

12. I believe this censure by the Senate GOP was an attempt to discredit

Moveon, before the powerful moveon ads hit all of them..one by one.

I believe that they knew what Moveon has in the works for the Bush repubs, and this is all they could do to blemish the solid reputation of Moveon.org.

A pre-emptive strike (if you will) against Moveon. They know the Betrayus Ad is powerful and speaks from the population of the USA, not just the congress.

Weak attempt, but its the best they could do to show the usual GOP strong-arm tactics.

I'll donate my money to Moveon before any candidate in the running. Putting my money where it is heard.

Thank You Moveon.org. More power to you.

[trumad]

14. I believe that too.

it's simply one of the last bullets in their arsenal.

[lonestarnot]

15. Monumental blunders are so common place with them that no one notices another.

[karlrschneider]

16. I just now contributed to moveon.org for the first (and not last) time.

Chimp, Cornyn, McConnell and others of their ilk convinced me.

[Kolesar]

18. :thumbsup:

:thumbsup:

[sandyd921]

40. I just contributed too

(although I had contributed in the past). I also told a co-worker (who I knew was likely to be sympathetic) about the vote and forwarded the e-mail to her. She was as outraged as I was. Plus, I used the opportunity to talk with her about ways to become active including going with me to the Oct. 27th demonstration (she's very interested). We have to use every opportunity to wake folks up and get them activated; one by one...

[KAZ]

45. Way to go Karl! It's amazing, but it has drawn many of us

together.

[malaise]

17. Move-On's President will be on with David Shuster

(hosting for Tucker) this evening on MSNBC.

[trumad]

19. Sweet... what time is that?

[budibudinski]

20. On here at 5:00 (one hour) CDT..right after Hardball

4:10cdt now.

[BoBo92]

21. I agree, I Joined Move- On today and sent them some money!

I don't have a lot of money so I have to be careful about
my political contributions.

Bush's comments about Move-On and the vote in the Senate today
got me so angry I wanted to do something.

My 74 year old mother sent Move-On a donation today also.

I contacted my two useless Texas Senators and thanked them because their actions today were
generating a lot of donations to move on. HA!

It will be interesting to see how many people join or contribute to
Move-On because of this.

Even Ed Schultz says he is going to donate $100.00 every time * mentions Move-On

[Raffi Ella]

22. Hah.

They practically declared Fascism outright with this latest attack on the Constitution.


Ya' god damn right I'm fired up.

America better wake the fuck up.WAKE UP!

[Rex]

27. They gave millions exposure to Moveon.org, at a time when their

base is at it's weakest from years of GOP corruption. Another stupid move by stupid people.

[alfredo]

28. We know that our soldiers called him Betrayus well before the ad.

And like we thought he would, he bowed before King George.

[Robbien]

30. How right you are. Their base is molified. Ours is in a white hot rage.

Not right.

Unforgivable.

DLC/BlueDogs joining with GOPers to undermine Progressives and join hand in hand with GOPers to sanction one of our own? No wonder the right side of the web thinks this is no big deal while the left side is spitting fire.

[malaise]

35. Davis Shuster agrees as well n/t

[spanone]

39. you got that right trumad.

[Swamp Rat]

43. LOLOL!!!!!! Damn straight trumad!

It's WONDERFUL!!!! :bounce:

... and really really REALLY amusing to watch the right wing fucktards bitch about it (including fake Dem trolls)... tee hee! :rofl: