FACE it people....MOVEON.ORG F'D UP!!

[Harper_is_Bush]

They had valid points to make about the General.

There are, as you all know, many facts and examples that point to him being little more than a Bush policy shill.

HOWEVER...."BETRAY US"????

That implies he's a traitor, perhaps feeding information to terrorists and insurgents?

I understand the idea was to capture attention, but it went to far and NOW we see what we're seeing.

I ABSOLUTELY do not blame any Democrat who voted as did on this issue. The stupidity of moveon.org left them no choice.

Next time Moveon, how about choosing a cutsey line that doesn't imply a General is a traitor?? That might help.

After all, you're seeking to reach the American public, not just the converted like those at this website, who understand what you meant by "betray".

To the American public, it's an over-the-top insult of an acive duty General. They see it as an accusation that he's working for OBL.

THAT IS WHY THOSE CRAFTY AND ALWAYS IMAGE-CONCIOUS REPUBLICANS LATCHED ONTO IT.

Next time moveon, maybe utilize a focus group first? I don't know.

[Bonobo]

1. Nope. You went for the head fake, that's all.

You bought a RIDICULOUS complaint. You encouraged them.

Well now YOU OWN IT. I hope you likes.

[Harper_is_Bush]

10. No bro, we ALL own it. There's a reason things play out as they do, and I'm simply giving it to you

I didn't buy anything.

I know the f'er is betraying us. What I, and you, think don't matter.

What matters is what Joe and Jane lunchbucket think.

[AndyTiedye]

59. Because We Democrats Must Always Make Nice or The Media Will Crucify Us

of course they'll crucify us ANYWAY. That's their job.

[Ahpook]

70. Starting to think..

Joe doesn't matter in all this, they are a small fringe. Just keep on pushing:)

I saw Joe trying on plastic jewelry and some spiked wristbands in a gas station recently. Fully decked in camo cutoffs, black shirt, all the shit.

I could care less what these fucking losers think:)

[cali]

90. Precisely,

and if you're going to gore a sacred ox, do it skillfully. They didn't.

[robinlynne]

116. The United States thinks the war should end.

[Junkdrawer]

135. ..or what we can be made to believe Joe and Jane lunchbucket think.

Politics in the new millenium is 90% Potemkin Village.

[Atman]

150. If Joe and Jane Lunchbucket saw a UNITED party, they'd think "we're united."

Instead, Joe and Jane see our f'ing leaders waffle and backpedal and apologize and they figure "Gosh, it must have been really bad." By definition, Joe and Jane are not necessarily the sharpest tools in the shed; they're not dumb, they're good people, but they're working hard, and don't have the time nor inclination to spend all day on DU researching the truth -- they're the people "leaders" lead. And our leaders failed them miserably, and by extension, the country.

.

[sendero]

81. Goofus..

.... try to understand THIS. It doesn't matter how many people on DU feel one way or the other about it, it MATTERS how much political hay the Republicans are able to make of it.

And they made a LOT whether you like it or not.

It was a STUPID BLUNDER, it DETRACTED FROM THE MESSAGE, and if this is the quality of thought at MoveOn, they've seen their last dollar from me.

I'm tired of fucking idiots who think that it doesn't matter how many votes the pukes will turn with this, it MATTERS and you'd better understand that if you EVER want to see Dems in power again.

[opiate69]

98. Oh, please..

As if there was anything that could be said that the Pukes wouldn't make political hay out of. For fuck's sake, they made "political hay" out of a guy who lost 3 limbs in a war which precisely none of their chickenshit heroes had the balls to fight in. That's what these slack-jawed fuckwits do.. distract, obfuscate, spin, repeat.. and I daresay, they would be much less successful if our so-called leaders in the Democratic party would stand up every now and then and deliver a sharp punch to the nose (metaphorically speaking, of course)

[robinlynne]

117. the opposite is happening. thousands are flocking to moveon. and soldiers

are thanking moveon. wake up.

[sendero]

136. It doesn't matter..

... if "thousands" are flocking to MoveOn if MILLIONS have a negative view of our efforts over a stupid pun.

the ad would have been ever bit as effective and UNASSAILABLE without the stupid pun.

If you don't think that getting the senate, including half the Dem senators, to vote for a "censure", is "making political hay", then you are DELUSIONAL.

[robinlynne]

172. once again. the republicans made the democrats do it? The republicans made the democrats vote

against the FISA courts? The republicans tricked them into believeing there were weapons of amss destrcution? Come oN! How gullible are these democratic senators supposed to be?

[TankLV]

149. DING DING DING! We have a winner!!!!

This has been a watershed moment for most of us here...

MoveOn is the big winner here - EVERYONE is discussing the ad - meely mouth would get no air play...

My money just moved out of Dems pockets into MoveOn.

THANKS MOVEON!!!

[Raster]

173. And it's the movement of the money that has some Dems scared.

Your money. My money. Many of us are choosing to donate to more "progressive" organizations than the DNC.

[liberalnurse]

2. Boy, you sure can't see

the trees for the forest can you...................:eyes: :freak: :hangover: :shrug:

[CatWoman]

3. oh, good gravy

ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

gravy.............

[Cha]

43. I think I'm in the mood

for Pizza!

[TahitiNut]

109. ... on biscuits!!

Yumm!

:silly:

[CatWoman]

174. with chipped beef

:hi:

[TahitiNut]

175. Yum. Or sausage gravy over biscuits.

"Southern" food. (Can't stand grits or black-eyed peas or okra.)

[Quixote1818]

4. Then why did support for the war drop last week? nt

[sandnsea]

5. Feingold's oh shut up vote

They all should have voted no on the whole mess and then went on tv and expressed pure horror that this was getting more attention than ending the war.

I don't know who is in charge of our party right now but they need a swift kick in the pants - the whole damn lot of them.

Except Feingold. He got it 100% right.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

29. Feingold did get it right. When he voted No

on the Boxer Amendment, people were puzzled, but I guessed why he voted that way immediately and when he voted no on the Cornyn amendment, it confirmed it for me.

Those amendments Never should have gotten to the floor, period.

[MadBadger]

6. I agree and disagree

I agree that moveon fucked up. There members may like the ad, but nobody else did and yes it probably alienated some in the party. I think the right course of action though was one of two things though. Either you skip the vote like Obama did, or vote no. They should not have voted yes.

[Harper_is_Bush]

16. Good analysis. Thanks for seeing what I was saying, and thanks for the insight on the vote..

maybe you have a point, but by voting for it have they not neutralized the issue?

[EFerrari]

7. He disgraced the uniform, not MoveOn. And he will continue

to do so and we will continue to object. :hi:

[liberalnurse]

38. Don't be bothered.

The flamebait isn't even from this country...............

The cool thing is, that Move-On has made national attention and is being blanketed with donations!

[Raster]

102. It just amazes me how many flock to criticize the delivery of the message.

And almost NONE criticize the message.

And just a point of reference: Patreus = Betray Us has been used by American solders for several years. Actually there's quite a few little nicknames for Betrayus. My favorite is "ass kissing little chickenshit."

Thank you MoveOn for raising the issue.

[Carolina]

140. Exactly!

Donated to MoveOn while returning my DSCC and other Party solicitations marked:

NO IMPEACHMENT
NO END TO WAR
NO $$$$$$ TO YOU
MY $$$ AND SUPPORT GO TO MOVEON.ORG!

[BlooInBloo]

8. I'm fine with what MoveOn did.

[emilyg]

73. I'm fine with it. Donated twice.

[xchrom]

9. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA! -- boy the republick party has you hog tied don't they?

[liberalnurse]

18. He is not from around here.

He is Canadian thus it is not an issue that would directly affect the OP life.

[xchrom]

23. oh now that IS interesting. n/t

[liberalnurse]

44. Simple investigative work...

O8) :hi: :woohoo:

[xchrom]

52. lol -- well -- i am referred to as simple in some circles.

:hi: :pals: :hi:

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[liberalnurse]

67. No, No..Pleeze.........

" Don't Taser Me Bro"..............:scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared:



This is fun....I love free speech....Thats why I embrace MoveON!



:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[TankLV]

151. It is relevant - we could care less what YOU think...,

you're not even one of us...

go back to the tundra...

[Lex]

11. Republicans will latch on to anything.

They even wore purple band-aids to dis Senator Kerry's war record & purple heart.

You can't go around worried about what the Republicans will latch on to. That's the problem with the Dems in the first place.

[liberalnurse]

12. You are Canadian............

so, you don't really count....your just a spectator. :rofl:

This is an American issue for Americans.

Think of it as "Family Business"..... and move along.

[Harper_is_Bush]

22. Oh yeah, what America does only affects Americans.

Grow up.

[Tarheel_Dem]

83. Have you been paying attention?

Are you aware of the stunt that Republicans pulled at their national televised convention in '04? Are you aware that they ran ads, and very effectively, against Max Cleland that morphed his face into that of Osama Bin Laden? These tactics have worked for them in the past, so why not turn the tables on them?

If we're gonna fret everytime the rightwing goes into overdrive with their "feigned outrage", then we allow them to always control the discussion. The same way they jumped on Sen. Clinton saying she should apologize for calling Petraeus a liar, of course she never called him a liar, and she hasn't apologized for her interrogation of him.

And besides, I made my first contribution to MoveOn today. YAY ME!

[SlowDownFast]

91. LOL!!

:rofl:

You're terrible.

I think I can hear his blood pressure rising through my monitor.

:rofl:

[Hoof Hearted]

108. Yeah, arrogant, asshat statements like that have a tendency to piss mature, educated people off

Ugly Americans, indeed.

[SlowDownFast]

112. Not so fast, newbie.

If you weren't so new, you'd know that Harper is sometimes suspect because of his frequent 'concern' (stick around awhile and you'll find out what that means - or not).

Oh, by the way, welcome to DU.

Best have a thick skin 'round here.

[TankLV]

152. But in this case we're right...

piss off non americans - this is FAMILY business - don't need foreigneers telling us how to NOT criticize bunkerboy and the WAR CRIMINALS...

[provis99]

100. this is Bushland. Americans don't count, either

Or have you missed the last 7 years?

[aquart]

13. Thank you for your concern.

[Kagemusha]

14. Yeah, every blog defense of this tries to pump up the "betray us" meme

Frankly, I really, really don't find that Democratic Senators have any ground to stand on when it comes to being "mad at the base" and acting as if they are oh so dignified and everyone else is oh so rude and uncouth. But the language MoveOn.org chose to use was juvenile. Republicans get away with it all the time. I would not have used that language. But the public at large didn't care, only Washington insiders did, and they chose to make a big show of "bipartisan" disgust and siding with Bush against their own supporters, because the military is to be respected and worshiped above all.

But I feel that points can be made without people actually going out of their way to repeat the "betray" meme over and over again to make it true through repetition.

[Skip Intro]

15. Sorry, no.

Its a manufactured "issue" for the repukes to feign outrage over. The orchestration was worthy of some award for hypocrisy.

MoveOn ain't the problem here.

[Peregrine Took]

17. Oh, pul-eeze! Since when are generals some sort of gods who can't be

criticized - I just don't get it!
Who's side are you on?
et's stop trying to placate and worry about what the rethugs think.
Move On has been our friend and ally for years - are we going to abandon them now? Not me!!

[Harper_is_Bush]

28. There's a difference between criticizing a General, and accusing him of treason.

See what I'm saying?

If you read my post you'd know I'm all for criticizing the prick. Moveon went further than that. They essentially called him a traitor.

[Lars39]

64. And he is.

He helped lie us into this damned war.

[backscatter712]

66. That's because he is a traitor.

He betrayed his own troops by saying things were hunky-dory in Iraq, just so he could kiss ass to the Bushies.

[Raster]

103. Truth. Fucking. Hurts.

[robinlynne]

118. because he is. He is the one who stood up and guaranteed that saddam had WMDs.

Remember that?

[Capn Sunshine]

125. Apparently in Canada betray=treason. Not so in the US, amigo.

Read UP before you make that etymological leap. It's a false cognate. A manufactured meme. You've been hoodwinked by the propagandameisters.

[Carolina]

141. Exactly, Generals lie

Presideents lie, Attorney Generals lie ...

Sheesh. This bullshit about honoring Betrayus because of his service, etc. is just that: BULLSHIT.
He's a lying shill for Bush and an ass-licking little chickenshit!
MoveOn is right and has my full support -- financial and otherwise

[Nitrogenica]

19. Nope, not at all. The next election will be all about betrayal!

[AuntPatsy]

20. Wasn't it those in uniform who knew him up close and personal who first

gave him that nickname? And if so why would the repubs be upset? Specially the wanna be dictator, I thought he himself wouldn't have minded at all since he seems to love giving people nicknames, I guess he is just upset because he didn't get to pick it so had his henchman exact vengence.

[notadmblnd]

62. His own superior Admiral Fallon called him...

...and I quote "an ass kissing little chicken shit." It was on Olbermann one day last week.

[robinlynne]

119. yes.

[acmavm]

21. The Betrayus name came from the troops that serve under him. It's not

something that MoveOn dreamt up. It came from those that should know best. And who have to pay the dearest price for his treachery.

[havocmom]

41. Say it again! Betrayus is the name he earned from his troops!

And again:
Betrayus is the name he EARNED from his troops.

Betrayus is the name he earned FROM HIS TROOPS

HIS TROOPS

Think about that people.

In a different time, it might well have been a deadly item tossed into his tent... oh, but the general never actually saw combat or something like that....

[robinlynne]

120. say it again with CAPITALS. Thank-you havocmom!

[deutsey]

131. Do you have a source for this? I'd like to have it to show my Senators

[flyarm]

161. yes here is some sources..and kpete's post about it and my post yesterday after

i notified Boxer's office about it!..FLY

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1855633&mesg_id=1856862

Kpete's thread..please when you call tell them about this!!..they didn't know!! and they need to know..now i will call the repig senators and let them know as well!

thanks kpete!!


KPETE POSTED THIS THREAD..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

MoveOn.org Didn't Invent BetrayUs- The Troops Did!
MoveOn.org Didn't Invent BetrayUs- The Troops Did!

.....

.....the origins of the nickname "Betrayus".

Many people are falsely assuming that "Betrayus" was a clever rhyme made up by Moveon.org for the New York Times ad. Which I think is a key assumption for this ad controversy to work for the republicans.

And that assumption is false. The nickname did not originate with Moveon.org.

I clearly remember reading Petraeus's nickname on various military forums/comment threads over two years ago. I remember it so because I thought it was very clever and suitable nickname. In the past couple of months, I have also started seeing the nickname used on progressive blogs and comments.

.....................

Here's a comment from 2005:

FromBLACKFIVE: Generals of yesterday and today
http://www.blackfive.net/main/2005/11/generals_of_yes.h ...

I don't know GEN Petraeus personally...but when I was in the "Devil Brigade" folks called him "Colonel Betrayus". He came up with things like the "Devil button" (button your BDU collar up to the top when on jumps) and the "Devil grip" (special name for keeping your trigger finger out of the trigger well) which sounded hokey to most of the troops at the time.

Can any other All American paratroopers out there expand on my comment?

Posted by: TBone | November 19, 2005 at 10:52 AM

..............

Update: Terre in the comments has a great find:

From the Times Online

Americans doubt ‘General Betraeus’ over troop surge (8/19/07):

AFTER being hailed as King David, the potential saviour of Iraq, the US commander General David Petraeus is facing a backlash in advance of his report to Congress in September on the progress of America’s troop surge.

Critics, including one recently retired general, are privately calling him "General Betraeus" on the grounds that he is too ambitious to deliver a balanced report on the war.

Lawrence Korb, a defence official under Ronald Reagan who is now at the Center for American Progress, a Democratic think tank, said Petraeus was regarded as "the most political general since General (Douglas) Mac-Arthur", a reference to the second world war hero who was touted as a possible president.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/iraq/articl ...

and more at:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/9/18/215826/698


ALSO; POSTED BY The Vinyl Ripper

http://balkin.blogspot.com/2007_01_07_balkin_archive.ht ...

Incidentally, I offer the following sidenote about General Petraeus, by almost all accounts an enormously accomplished man: A student of mine at the UT Law School, who had had combat experience in both Afghanistan and Iraq, referred to him as "General Betrayus" because of what was thought to be his inordinate interest in good publicity (and presumed self-promotion) rather than concern for his troops. I have no idea whether this is fair, but I do know that this is what my sober and thoughtful student told me.

[acmavm]

166. Thanks for providing the links!

[in_cog_ni_to]

24. BULL! Not one word in that ad was false and SO WHAT that they

made a clever play on his name. The psycho made Petraeus a political operative. He deserved to be targeted. Period.

[Kagemusha]

35. Hey, let's be fair here. It has nothing to do with the man's name.

If that was the case, people wouldn't be writing, BETRAY THE TROOPS, in ALL CAPS, in every blog post about it. If his name was something else, they'd call him Benedict Arnold.

That is not something that happens often in American political discourse, to go that far, but, hey, people are ticked off.

[Harper_is_Bush]

47. You don't have your eye on the ball. The American public was the target, and all they heard

was that moveon accused a General of being a traitor and all they gained was a loss of credibility.

Look beyond your OWN perception of the situation. You are far more plugged in than the average American. They just get the soundbites from FOX and CNN, which are focussed on the Republican outrage over the accusation that a General is being slandered as a traitor.

[liberalnurse]

56. Spectators opinions don't count

on this one.....Clueless comes to mind.

[in_cog_ni_to]

68. Hello! The American public isn't buying their propaganda anymore!

The psycho is now at 28% in the polls and the MAJORITY of the American people want us OUT of Iraq. Believe me, both of my eyes are on the ball and Moveon.org was SPOT ON with this ad.

[marmar]

76. But polls showed that most Americans expected Petraeus to not tell the truth....

even before his little dog and pony show. That "General" had no credibility with 60+ percent of the American public before he even uttered a word.

[Raster]

105. And polls now show the Betrayus dog and pony show swayed NO ONE

So that's why right-wing slimeballs have to criticize the add, and get all histrionic about the delivery. 'Cause God knows, they sure as shit can't criticize the message.

Cowards and collaborators!:kick:Wake up America!

[robinlynne]

121. the opposite happened. maybe YOU dont like it but dont put your opinions

in the mouths of the public.

[TankLV]

153. We don't care what you think - this is FAMILY business - you have NO

SAY in this matter...

Piss off...

[superkia]

25. He betrayed his country by supporting those that profit from death.

One who betrays one's country, a cause, or a trust, especially one who commits treason.

1. Violation of allegiance toward one's country or sovereign, especially the betrayal of one's country by waging war against it or by consciously and purposely acting to aid its enemies.
2. A betrayal of trust or confidence.


He is aiding the enemies of the citizens, a dictatorship or fascist government. He now has the blood on his hands, he could have bailed out or retired but he would have then become one of us. He chose to sell out the citizens of the country to continue this war on innocent people for money.

[Gabi Hayes]

26. here's hoping there's more coverage of his allegedly phony medals

than there was of B***'s AWOL

[yurbud]

27. The republicans probably responded to it because it was effective. If it wasn't, they would have

let it lie.

People are smart enough to know what "Betray Us" means in that context--it means lying for Bush.

Stop watching so much TV. It's rotting your brain.

[autorank]

30. Bigger issues: 1,000,000 dead Iraqi Ciivilians - who is asking, who is answering?

This is the issue. Screw the rest of it. 1,000,000 civilians who would be alive had Bush-Cheney not ordered invasion, had Congress not forgotten it declares war

Had the American people not been lied to by Bush through the NYT's what's her name and the other stenographers, there would have been no war.

Who fucking cares about MoveOn's ad?

--------------


Published on Friday, September 14, 2007 by the Los Angeles Times

Poll: Civilian Death Toll in Iraq May Top 1 Million

A British survey offers the highest estimate to date. At least 4 die in a Sadr City car bombing.
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/09/14/3839/
by Tina Susman

BAGHDAD - A car bomb blew up in the capital’s Shiite Muslim neighborhood of Sadr City on Thursday, killing at least four people, as a new survey suggested that the civilian death toll from the war could be more than 1 million.

The figure from ORB, a British polling agency that has conducted several surveys in Iraq, followed statements this week from the U.S. military defending itself against accusations it was trying to play down Iraqi deaths to make its strategy appear successful.0914 04

The military has said civilian deaths from sectarian violence have fallen more than 55% since President Bush sent an additional 28,500 troops to Iraq this year, but it does not provide specific numbers.

According to the ORB poll, a survey of 1,461 adults suggested that the total number slain during more than four years of war was more than 1.2 million.

ORB said it drew its conclusion from responses to the question about those living under one roof: “How many members of your household, if any, have died as a result of the conflict in Iraq since 2003?�

Based on Iraq’s estimated number of households — 4,050,597 — it said the 1.2 million figure was reasonable

[Warren Stupidity]

31. I am so glad I donated to moveon today.

Their ad has pulled back the curtain and revealed the truth and shown us who stands where.

[gaiilonfong]

48. I gave them TRIPLE what I normally do and sent the DSCC a note

Telling them they get NUTTIN ...not until they get rid of all those spineless DINOS......
What good is a Dem majority........NUTTIN...I say.
Move-on has guts whether you agree with them or not...Listen to Olbermanns special comment from tonight he called out Chimpy and the thugs for what they are..LIARS AND LOSERS!

[HughMoran]

32. Duh, gee Davy - let's all state the company line

This is NOT funny.

[Teaser]

33. Oh yeah, those opinion polls sure swung against us

*yawn*

[Quixote1818]

34. "He is an ass kissing little chicken shit."

Just remember, there will be a round 2 with his superior.

[Demit]

36. I don't agree at all. In fact, after that stunt the Senate pulled today, I donated to MoveOn again.

You do know that the nickname came from the military men who worked with him, don't you? MoveOn didn't make it up. They just publicized it. The power elite in Washington had to put on this big stink because they're nervous that the American public saw through the sham of Petraeus' testimony. I'm not sure why you think the American public is too stupid to know what 'betray' means. They're smart enough to know what 'winning' means, and that it isn't what we're doing in this war.

[The Vinyl Ripper]

37. No, MoveOn was utterly brilliant and were multiple moves ahead of the Reps.

The Betrayus ad may be a small net negative for the Dems right now, but in a Friedman or two when things have not improved or even gotten worse in Iraq it will look more prophetic than anything else. The Reps have shot themselves in the foot big time by squawking about it non stop. There are two words that are now planted in everyone’s mind “General Betrayus”. The meme has infected the host of the body politic and now it just requires proper conditions to multiply and it will become a raging infection.

[WillyT]

39. Well... Petraeus's Boss Said The Same Thing !!!

<snip>

Nothing in Iraq is getting better, and nothing is about to get better. Petraeus is arming one religious sect to kill another and measuring success by body counts. Every body he counts is 10 friends and relatives eager to kill the occupiers. This is not a war that can be won or lost. It is an occupation and a crime, and we must stop committing it! According to Republicans in Congress the real danger lies in people who would dare question the authority of a general. I set up a website called BetrayUsReport.com, so I must be part of the real problem. But then so must Petraeus's boss, Admiral Fallon, who calls him (and you'll have to excuse me, but these are his words), "an ass kissing little chicken shit."

Somehow the Bush White House seems to attract an unfair share of ass kissing little chicken shits. I watched Bush's speech the other night on ABC, in which Bush admitted, as his report yesterday effectively admitted, that none of the so-called benchmarks had been met. Senator Reed gave a good but vague and non-committal Democratic response. And then George Stephanopoulos of ABC, something of an ass-kissing little chicken shit himself, came on and immediately explained what it all meant. He didn't remind anyone of all the promises Bush had made back in January. Instead he announced that the Democrats can talk about ending the so-called war but cannot do anything about it because they don't have 67 Democrats in the Senate.

Let's get one thing straight: that is a lie. Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid can announce tomorrow and could have announced nine months, several hundred troops, and tens of thousands of Iraqis ago, that they will not bring up any more bills to fund the occupation. A Republican proposal to fund the occupation could be blocked by 41, not 67, Senators. The Democrats could also pass bills ending the occupation or funding only the withdrawal and have them vetoed and pass them again and again. This is no secret and there is no dispute that Congress has this power. Senator Feingold held hearings at the start of the year at which experts overwhelmingly agreed that Congress can simply stop providing funding. Bush has plenty of money to bring the troops home, and Congress can provide new money for that purpose.

Congress can provide funds for the reconstruction of Iraq by Iraqis. Congress can encourage the United Nations and the Arab League to organize transition efforts. Congress can ban the use of any funds for an attack on Iran. It's only a question of will.

<snip>

Link: http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=37905

:banghead:

[global1]

40. Just Checked The Definition For Betray......

1. to lead astray:SEDUCE; 2. to deliver to an enemy; 3. abandon; 4. to prove unfaitful to; 5. to reveal unintentionally.

I'm thinking that MoveOn was meaning definition #1.

Besides wasn't the text under the HEADLINE explanatory. Didn't it reinforce what MoveOn was getting at.

MoveOn was just using a play on words to get people to read the real message.

The Repugs had nothing going for them last week. MoveOn was the only target they had. They went after them with all the bullets in their holster. They were successful to the point that they even got Dems to back them up today. How sad.

If I was MoveOn - I wouldn't be all that upset with what the Repugs did today. What's the old saying - any publicity is good publicity. What the Repugs did was probably get more people to actually read MoveOn's message.

If I were MoveOn - I would really be upset with the Dems - and not just those that voted with the Repugs - but all of them. The Dems didn't do too much to quell this - stupid attack. If the show were on the other foot - the Repugs would have.

[Whisp]

42. o please, somebody get the hook....

what a buncha

[Lerkfish]

45. um, sorry, no.

speaking truth to power is not f@cking up.
Standing silent while abuses go on is f@cking up.

[durrrty libby]

46. Wes Clark was not happy with the Move On ad

I liked his explanation

The General is a quarterback for the president, and the president is the coach

The quarterback carries out the coaches plan. He doesn't design it.

Clark said that he wished the MoveOn people had asked for his input

before publishing the ad.

[Lerkfish]

49. because all people should have their voice approved ahead of time by people in power

....riiiiiiight?

(even though I like Clark, I think he's dead wrong on this issue: this a freedom of speech issue-- his analogy doesn't go far enough: its ok for the quarterback to listen to the coach. its NOT ok for people in the grandstand being told they can't point out a bad call or criticize a play.

get the difference?

[durrrty libby]

65. The MoveOn ad put the attention on the General and not on

bush, where it belonged.

[Lerkfish]

85. so what? when congress censures critics, for any reason, we've tipped into fascism

who gets to decide where the attention belongs? For one thing, Petraeus lied to us about WMDs, why does he get a pass on scrutiny?

[robinlynne]

123. It belonged right on Petraus, questioning his credibility. which was being guaranteed

by Bush and by lies.

[ima_sinnic]

107. who gives a fuck what he says anymore? ever since he endorsed HRC,

his opinion is shit. He showed he is actually not very bright--or maybe not as committed to "the people" as he lets on--with that one. I used to like him--A LOT--but that went down the toilet the other day. he can go to hell.

[Carolina]

143. I agree

Who cares what another general says. Covering each others backs.
I guess Colon (typo intended) Powell is still honorable and above reproach, too ... not that I ever liked him
Sheesh!

[Exultant Democracy]

50. I think MoveOn was off too, but thanks to the Republicans they made the big show today

they couldn't have planed a better outcome.

[Cha]

51. Was the Boxer, Durbin

Amendment on there about condemning the Swift Boat Liars as long as they were condemning Moveon for truth?

They couldn't take the time or the votes to condemn bush for breaking the law and lying us into war and killing people but they can take time out to condemn Moveon for telling the truth.

[Harper_is_Bush]

53. A lot of posters seem to be missing the point in an angry fashion.

Assuch, I'm going to sign-off this thread.

If anyone is genuinely interested in what I'm saying here, read my responses to others.

I won't defend myself against those who assume I'm defending Petraus, because that's bullshit.

[Lars39]

61. lol

[SlowDownFast]

94. Yah. Take off you hoser...

EH!!!

:rofl:

[Warren DeMontague]

114. That, uh, seems to happen with a lot of your threads, doesn't it?

:shrug:

[robinlynne]

124. maybe you are missing the point?

[TankLV]

154. Good riddance - let me slam the door on you...

[jedr]

54. regardless of what was printed, they had the right to do it;

Seems that Ms. Coulter can make any outrageous comment she wants, or any Cristian far right group ( God Hates Fags) or Rush or Hanity or O'Reily and on and on including Mr Jackson . This Senate Censure was on the level of the Schiavo fiasco and 70% of the U.S feels that way but the Dems are so afraid of being swift boated. I feel like a Jew in Germany in 1935. god help us all!

[Dude_CalmDown]

55. What the fuck are you talking abOOt?

I agree that they fucked up. But only in that the headline wasn't:

"Petraeus or Dumbfuck Shithead who betrayed us?"

[phillysuse]

57. Agree completely, it was a juvenile silly ad

The kind of name calling that kids do on the playground when they make fun of another kid's name.

Third grade stuff.

The issues are too important for them to screw up like this.

Move On let us all down. Maybe Move On needs to Move On!

[noise]

77. The issue too is too important

to let the GOP continue to equate support for soldiers with support for Bush's policy. GOP support for soldiers is based on propaganda and cheap talking points. That is unacceptable.

[Tarheel_Dem]

86. uuuuummmmm.....maybe you should take your own advice?

:shrug:

[Carolina]

145. Let us down? Yeah right, that's why donations are UP

It's the wimps in our party who let this come to a floor vote and who piled on with the repuke/MSN meme that need to move the fuck on

[physioex]

60. Hah...Speak for yourself.

I am more than happy to pitch in a small donation to moveon. The do represent my opinion. BTW I seems silly that Faux News is complaining about the WSJ after all they are both owned by Rupert Murdoch.

[backscatter712]

63. Oh stick it.

I'm tired of fighting with one hand tied behind my back.

I don't want to be "better" than them, I want to win.

And I frankly don't care how dirty we get. Name-calling should be one of our milder tactics.

[scarface2004]

69. next moveon ad 'the military sucks'!

full page usa today. should be a real attention grabber!

[Cha]

74. The military started that

"General Betrayus" ..it's been on the military blogs for a while now..Moveon didn't invent it.

Moveon wants to stop this bloody WAR and the senate couldn't give the troops some rest but they take time to condemn a newspaper ad.

[LeftyMom]

71. You're wrong again.

Quite the creature of habit, aren't you?

[burythehatchet]

72. "maybe utilize a focus group first? I don't know."

right on there, hoss. That's the ticket.

[PA Democrat]

75. Yes a nice polite ad would have gotten so much more attention.... NOT!

Oh shame, they went "too far". Oh dear, we can't have THAT! We must sit back patiently and politely while more people DIE.

I made another donation to Move On today. They have a great ad ready to run on the betrayal of trust of the Republicans. Betrayal is a fitting word considering what they have done. Betrayal, betrayal, BETRAYAL. If the shoe fits.....

[kstewart33]

78. I'm with you. They f***ed up. But who cares?

Leave it to the Senate, indeed the Congress, to neglect any issue of real importance and focus on nitwit stuff like this.

[lib2DaBone]

79. I just donated to Moveon

spare the umbrage and phony political correctness...pulleeez. As if the GOP didn't sink to lowest level ever, when they attacked Max Cleland, a man who gave his arms and legs for this country. Shame on the Lame-Stream media for not saying what everyone knows. This war is a billion-dollar-a-week crime against the American Taxpayers.

[Lint Head]

80. It's too late to play nice. We are in a fascist country controlled

by a dictator. No one is riding to our rescue.
Betray-Us Betray-Us Betray-Us Betray-Us Betray-Us Betray-Us Betray-Us Betray-Us Betray-Us Betray-Us Betray-Us Betray-Us !
Free speech will NEVER be taken away from me. :dem:

[Swamp Rat]

82. Actually, the ad was much much more successful than I anticipated.

:applause: MoveOn! :applause:

[DUyellow]

84. No, the media has fucked this up.... not once have i heard them ask if the ad is valid

[robinlynne]

127. good point.

[rocktivity]

87. The rethugs are mad us--front page news

if you'll pardon the expression.

MoveOn's sentiments HAVE reached the American public--seventy per cent of it, at least. WE'RE the mainstream now--WE'RE the "moderates" that the DLC types insist they have to court to win in '08. You think the Rethugs are mad at us because we implied Petraeus was a traitor? No, they're mad because MoveOn has brought a new skin into the game: the reality-rooted voices of the voters themselves, complete with do-it-yourself media muscle. (Why do you think the Department of Justice has endorsed a two-tier Internet?) No, Harper, if MoveOn had really fucked up, the Rethugs wouldn't be reacting this way.

:headbang:
rocknation

[Canuckistanian]

88. There's a vast difference between "betrayal" and "treason"

I don't see where you're getting this treason idea. The Moveon ad does not, in any way imply "treason".

And the "feeding information to terrorists and insurgents" line is a strawman argument. Not even the Repubs themselves are going that far.

[Malikshah]

89. Implies a traitor...hmmm-- someone who carries water for the regime

What else can one think.

Focus group? Who are we? Luntz-wannabes?

Try another tactic--like the truth and using a bullhorn to proclaim it. Y'know, like the folks at MoveOn...

[G_j]

92. the truth hurts

and truth it is

I hold those Dems (& Repugs of course) responsible for attempting to repress the truth.

[brentspeak]

93. I support MoveOn's mission, but they DID screw up on this

Why give the REPUBLICANS ammunition? MoveOn could easily have gotten their message across without inadvertently causing a needless division within Democratic ranks.

[Carolina]

146. There was already division in the

Democratic ranks and, in case you haven't noticed, repukes don't need ammunition to lie. It's in their DNA

They have name-called since the 90s. In the 1992 election, they called Gore ozone man, and losing George Bush called Clinton and Gore bozos. McCain, at a repuke fundraiser long before 2000, referred to Chelsea Clinton as the White House dog (one of many reasons I never ever liked him). And Ann Coulter and others have devoted whole books to name calling and slander

And guess what? THEY never get called on it!

The MoveOn ad was tame and more importantly TRUE. And fuck the spineless Wimpocrats who are too chickenshit to stand up and point this out.

[TankLV]

155. Democrats could have avoided this division by not capitulating to the repukes in their vote...

Try that one on...

It's the SPINELESS VICHY DEMS who have initiated, created and nurtured this division...

THEY want a fight on this - they've GOT it...

And they have only themselves to blame for OUR reaction...

[Whoa_Nelly]

95. MoveOn.org is not the Democratic Party--It's its own separate entity

And exercising the right to free speech.

I neither condemn nor actively uphold their choice to create and air the Betray Us ad.


However, I do support and uphold, and yes, even cheer them, for speaking the truth.


I think it's ridiculous to lay what MoveOn chose to do at the foot of the Democratic Party.

My viewpoint on this is not from the standpoint of being a Democrat, and is all from my viewpoint of being an American.

[Nevernose]

96. He's willing to kill more American troops to further his own career

He's willing to kill more American troops to further his own career. He's a traitor, a betrayer, and a thousand times worse.

He knows that the "surge" ain't doing shit, the same way I knew that our reasons for going into Iraq in the first place were bullshit. He knew that numerous generals had been fired for reporting the truth, and told people what they wanted to hear in order to further his own career.

You think Petraus/Betray Us was bad? I'll go further. I'll say that that SOB deserves his own special circle in Hell.

[Rex]

97. You've never been wronger.

Or maybe you have, Moveon has never been so successful. Thanks Repukes!

[eridani]

99. Just learn the damned RULE, for once, 'kay?

It actually is possible to say you don't care for the ad's language without criticizing MoveOn.

http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/09/15/note-to-elizabeth-edwards-lay-off-moveon/

So here’s the rule. You never repeat right wing talking points to attack your own, ever. You never enter that echo chamber as a participant. Ever. You never give them a hammer to beat the left with. Just. Don’t. Do. It.

<snip>

The war is a desperate mess. When offered the opportunity to cudgel your own side, you pivot and attack. How about, “glad you mentioned that…I think an ad is about as relevant to George Bush’s growing collection of toe tags as a haircut is to the problems facing this country.” Or, “thanks for the opportunity to discuss this, Chris. I personally would not choose the word “betrayal” to characterize General Petraeus’s lack of judgment or skewing of the facts to perpetuate the war, but I do think we should be looking at the fact that this was the bloodiest summer ever in Iraq and asking ourselves if the assessment we’re being given about the situation is realistic…”

There are any number of ways you can answer that question well and none of them involve attacking MoveOn.

[robinlynne]

126. I'm not sure the poster is from the left at all. There are several posters furious with

the moveon ad, and there is really no reason at all to be furious with it, unless you support the war.

[Hoof Hearted]

101. Thank goodness. This is the only voice of sanity I've seen in the wilderness.

I love MoveOn about 99.5% of the time, and I've donated, but this was

STUPID.

It was like seeing your best friend show up drunk at your wedding and vomit on the cake. You still love her, but you can't excuse the behavior, and you're just left feeling embarrassed and pissed off.

[TheUniverse]

104. Maybe they went too far.

But the Senate issuing an official condemnation of free speech is far worse.

[ima_sinnic]

106. oh right--they should always modify their msg b/c of what the repukes might say/do

"betray us" fits the fucking betrayer to a t.

He has betrayed the American people by being nothing more than a PR front man for the professional liar, his boss, *.

"betray" doesn't necessarily mean "selling secrets to the so-called enemy." it also means blatantly lying to the American people while in a professional position that is supposed to lend credibility to murderous BULLSHIT that gets innocent Americans fucking KILLED in ILLEGAL, DIRTY OCCUPATIONS OF SOVEREIGN NATIONS WHERE A MILLION INNOCENTS HAVE BEEN SLAUGHTERED.

[Baby Snooks]

110. I disagree

Anyone who acts against the interests of the American people in my book is a traitor to the American people.

Politeness gets you nowhere. Why some decided to dump a bunch of tea in Boston Harbor. Why we need to dump some politicians at the polls. Including some Democrats who believe politeness is the way to go. It is not.

[Atman]

111. No, YOU fucked up for buying into the guilt trip

Jesus fucking christ. And people wonder why democrats are called pussies. We don't seem to want to stand up for ANYTHING.

.

[Warren DeMontague]

113. Sure. Every time they crank up the phony outrage machine, it's TOTALLY justified.

Totally, man. Has nothing to do with the fact that their leadership sucks, their 15th century fundy nutjob anti-science agenda is massively out of touch with the citizenry, and they are fucked 12 times to Sunday in the next election...

No, they're "crafty"! They latched onto the moveon ad like a drowning man grabs a life preserver! er, no, they latched on to it because, unlike rhetoric from Ann Coulter or Glenn Beck where they fantasize about bashing liberals' heads in with baseball bats, this moveon ad was offensive and out of line!

Yeah. That GOP phony outrage is always justified. Remember Kerry's Joke?

:eyes:

[robinlynne]

115. wrong wrong worng. Betray Us is what the soldiers nicknamed him. with reason.

[flyarm]

163. HERE IS WHAT HAS BEEN POSTED ABOUT THE SOLDIERS CALLING THE GENERAL " BETRAYUS"

I CALLED YESTERDAY AND NOTIFIED BOXER'S OFFICE OF THIS ..FLY




http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1855633&mesg_id=1856862

Kpete's thread..please when you call tell them about this!!..they didn't know!! and they need to know..now i will call the repig senators and let them know as well!

thanks kpete!!


KPETE POSTED THIS THREAD..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

MoveOn.org Didn't Invent BetrayUs- The Troops Did!
MoveOn.org Didn't Invent BetrayUs- The Troops Did!

.....

.....the origins of the nickname "Betrayus".

Many people are falsely assuming that "Betrayus" was a clever rhyme made up by Moveon.org for the New York Times ad. Which I think is a key assumption for this ad controversy to work for the republicans.

And that assumption is false. The nickname did not originate with Moveon.org.

I clearly remember reading Petraeus's nickname on various military forums/comment threads over two years ago. I remember it so because I thought it was very clever and suitable nickname. In the past couple of months, I have also started seeing the nickname used on progressive blogs and comments.

.....................

Here's a comment from 2005:

FromBLACKFIVE: Generals of yesterday and today
http://www.blackfive.net/main/2005/11/generals_of_yes.h ...

I don't know GEN Petraeus personally...but when I was in the "Devil Brigade" folks called him "Colonel Betrayus". He came up with things like the "Devil button" (button your BDU collar up to the top when on jumps) and the "Devil grip" (special name for keeping your trigger finger out of the trigger well) which sounded hokey to most of the troops at the time.

Can any other All American paratroopers out there expand on my comment?

Posted by: TBone | November 19, 2005 at 10:52 AM

..............

Update: Terre in the comments has a great find:

From the Times Online

Americans doubt ‘General Betraeus’ over troop surge (8/19/07):

AFTER being hailed as King David, the potential saviour of Iraq, the US commander General David Petraeus is facing a backlash in advance of his report to Congress in September on the progress of America’s troop surge.

Critics, including one recently retired general, are privately calling him "General Betraeus" on the grounds that he is too ambitious to deliver a balanced report on the war.

Lawrence Korb, a defence official under Ronald Reagan who is now at the Center for American Progress, a Democratic think tank, said Petraeus was regarded as "the most political general since General (Douglas) Mac-Arthur", a reference to the second world war hero who was touted as a possible president.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/iraq/articl ...

and more at:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/9/18/215826/698


ALSO; POSTED BY The Vinyl Ripper

http://balkin.blogspot.com/2007_01_07_balkin_archive.ht ...

Incidentally, I offer the following sidenote about General Petraeus, by almost all accounts an enormously accomplished man: A student of mine at the UT Law School, who had had combat experience in both Afghanistan and Iraq, referred to him as "General Betrayus" because of what was thought to be his inordinate interest in good publicity (and presumed self-promotion) rather than concern for his troops. I have no idea whether this is fair, but I do know that this is what my sober and thoughtful student told me.

[samplegirl]

122. Your kidding right?

Republicans view this as nothing more than Democrats weakness.
Have you forgotten......How they ruined Howard Dean over a scream? Abolished Max Cleland? or Swiftboated Kerry. Or Ann Coulters death threats?
These Rightwing bastards can dish it out...........but they
can't take it.

[Cleita]

128. MoveOn didn't invent Betrayus. I heard a guest on a talk

radio show, who is a professor at a prestigeous university, use it several weeks ago. MoveOn must have picked it up from there. Nonetheless are we going to rescind everyone's First Ammendment rights because they used this word publically referring to General Petraeus, first the professor and then MoveOn? I think not. This is censorship of the most totalitarian type, pure and simple. We have every right to criticize our leaders and use names that describe what they have done, like we call Rice Condiliar because she is a liar. I think it should be on posters too and no one should expect Congress to condemn our Constitutional rights particularly those people who are sworn to uphold the Constitution. Congress should not have touched that with a ten foot pole. It brings them close to treason.

[JCMach1]

129. It is not the duty of the Senate to censure freedom of speech

whatever Move-On said is a moot point.

[The Backlash Cometh]

130. Moveon Org is being vilified because they spoke out loud what was

on everybody's mind. And "thought" is a dangerous thing when it's put in the public domain and open for discussion. Because people might actually start thinking that this whole war is bogus and that Bush has been pushing the lies and this war on the backs of "experts," using their integrity to push forward. And sacrificing them like pawns, in the process.

And if they manage to vilify moveon.org, they will also make it unpatriotic to question Bush's methods.

THINK, people, please.

[Vidar]

132. The General fucked up. MoveOn just called him on it.

[deacon]

133. Petreaus is a shill. period. Feingold nailed him lying. So it comes to this

...he lied to congress and congress took his back. Hey, you can buck subpoenas now and there is no accountability.

Did i mention swift boaters? Congress swift boated moveon. Screw them. We the people? How many broke their oath yesterday?

[Geek_Girl]

134. No they didn't if you look at polling before and after the Betrayus thing

Support for the war went down. So I think they actually hit a home run. If some DLC centrist don't like MoveOn's tactics, they should call the waaambulance. They are acting silly and childish with their retarded vote.

[Zodiak]

144. They are just doing what they always do

Counseling defeat disguised as "good strategy".

[Orsino]

137. Well, be proud of your courageous Dems...

...who stood shoulder-to-shoulder with the GOP to smear your president's political opponents.

Implying that Petraeus is a traitor doesn't go far enough. He was eager to be used as a political football, and to enable years more of your president's stupid, bloody war. And he dared to do it in the uniform of my beloved Army, wearing--so help me!--a Ranger tab.

Watered-down, half-hearted opposition to America's enemies can be found anywhere. MoveOn critiques with teeth. It's not for the faint-hearted, but neither are most cancer treatments.

[cooolandrew]

138. They made a mistake I forgive them and sit alongside them they are working for a better America.....

... in the end.

[Carolina]

139. Our gov't and party f'd up

I am supporting MoveON which surely speaks for me more so than the Wimpocrats

[MadHound]

142. So you are in favor of chilling public speech eh?

MoveOn did the same thing any organization does, for profit or not, and that is have a snazzy hook to draw people in. I guarantee you that nowhere near as many people would have read that ad if MoveOn had played it safe.

Oh, and there are many Americans, including myself, who don't think that "it's an over-the-top insult of an active duty General." Please stop speaking for us, speak for yourself only.

And I think most Americans are smart enough to realize that it isn't any sort of accusation. In fact I think that the only ones who see it as such are the minority of freepers and die hard conservatives who still support this war. Do you really want to allow that small segment of the population to set the agenda?

God forbid that there are people who are loud and direct in their criticism of the war and it's players. No, we should be a nice, polite anti-war movement, meekly addressing our "betters" while the war ravages on, killing thousands on a weekly basis:eyes: Yeah, it was, after all, that Brooks Bros. anti-war movement that stopped the Vietnam war generation.

It has become sickening to see the appeasers, those who aid and abet the hawks with their demands for a meek and mild anti-war movement. They are willing to sell out the lives of innocents, all in the name of playing politics and being polite. Have you no shame? Have you no conscience? It is obvious that you have no direct vested interest in this war, no friends or relatives over there. And it is also apparent that you, like many of our Congressional Dems, have no spine. Rather, you allow a vocal minority to set the agenda and set the tone. How fucking pathetic. If you can't bear to raise your voice in protest, then you have a couple of options, to slink away and allow us to do our work, or stand and fight for your misguided views and get run over. Either way, you are not going to stop the anti-war movement. Don't you realize that the vast majority of Americans are against the war? Do you think that they are going to stand still, be meek and polite while our country is ruined and people die all for an illegal, immoral war?

Congratulations pal, it is people like you, with attitudes like yours that are going to spell the doom of the Democratic party you hold so dear. More and more people are waking up to the fact that there is little difference between the two corporate parties, and it is screeds like yours that confirm it. People and parties who have no conscience, who are willing to put party and politics before the lives of innocents everyday of the week and twice on Sundays. You should be ashamed.

[TankLV]

147. BULLSHIT - stop listening to the repuke spin.,,

MoveOn - like Michael Moore before them - have NOTHING to apologize for - the Democrats need to apologize to US - their BASE!!!

I am so fucking tired of ALL Vichy Dems...

[spanone]

148. MoveOn got aout 15 millions dollars worth of advertisement for $65,000

pretty good deal and no fuck up.

[DuaneBidoux]

156. The huge problem for Dems attacking Petreaus is that we supported him completely...

right to the point where he said something we didn't like.

[trumad]

157. Broad stroke there Pal...

This Dem never supported him.

[DuaneBidoux]

176. All but one Dem senator (i believe) voted for him.

In any case he was supported by most elected Dem officials.

[DrDan]

158. not sure why you link "betray" with being a traitor.

Couldn't it also mean to simply mislead us? I do not think that is necessarily traitorous.

Which of the administration could be considered innocent of this? (misleading us)

Many of the Dems as well, I would suggest.

But "traitorous" - I don't think so.

[bunkerbuster1]

159. Oh, do stop listening to Gooper scum.

The Goopers were going to pick on some slight in their weekly fit of faux-outrage. The Moveon.org ad happened to be it. If it weren't that, it'd be something else, and all the Gooper officials would goose-step to that talking point instead.

Move on.

[harun]

160. I support the right to dissent (n/t)

[Ganja Ninja]

162. Sadly no.

Move On's ad was fair and balanced and we need to stop apologizing every time the right gets it's panties in a knot.

[AnotherMother4Peace]

164. Bush thinks it's "disgusting" - that's good enough for me, it's a good ad.

When Matt Lauer starts saying has it "gone too far"? That means we moving forward. Go Move-On!!!!!

[mogster]

165. It not the words, it's the principle

It doesn't matter what moveon.org wrote, it's about principles of free speech and free dissent.

Here's the ad:

From the BBC:
The US Senate has voted to condemn an advertisement attacking the country's top commander in Iraq as he gave key testimony on military progress there.
The ad, published in the New York Times by anti-war group MoveOn.Org last week, sparked controversy by referring to Gen David Petraeus as "General betray us".

US President George W Bush accused Democrats of being afraid to stand up to the group over the "disgusting" ad.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7006170.stm

Now, let's rewind to 2004:
US website picks Bush policy ads
Online activists in the United States have selected 15 finalists for a political advertising contest.
The liberal MoveOn site challenged its readers to develop television messages that "tell the truth" about the policies of US President George W Bush.

The contest was condemned by supporters of Mr Bush when one entry compared the president to Nazi leader Adolf Hitler.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3370221.stm

[Oilwellian]

167. Your post encouraged me to donate to MoveOn

When one reads rightwing tripe on a progressive website, it just makes me want to fight back even more. :hi:

[Beelzebud]

168. Face it: The Democrats caved to the Right-Wing Noise Machine AGAIN.

And they took you along for the ride.

[Jed Dilligan]

169. Bollocks

The name Betrayus came from the TROOPS ON THE GROUND.

Do you really love the idea of our government condemning private individuals and organizations for political speech?

[truebrit71]

170. WRONG!!! You couldn't be further from the truth...they were SPOT ON...

Did you READ the text, because it looks from your OP that you didn't?

The term Betray-Us actually comes from those under his command, a point that none of the fake-patriots on the right conveniently forget to mention. Secondly, it was a play on words, at NO point in the ad do they say he is a traitor or doing anything remotely to aid the enemy. They DO suggest that he betrayed US, the general population, by becoming a lying mouthpiece for the war criminals in the WH.

Next time READ THE AD FIRST before swallowing the right-wing talking points hook, line and sinker...

[Arugula Latte]

171. Oh god I really didn't need this post this morning...

"I ABSOLUTELY do not blame any Democrat who voted as did on this issue."

There are so many things wrong with that statement I don't even know where to begin. I think I'll just :banghead:

[RestoreGore]

177. Where did this ad accuse him of treason?

Betraying our trust and lying to us is what I took from that ad as "betraying us", and that is right on target. But the bigger issue for me is that Congress deemed it necessary to penalize free speech simply because it didn't conform to their militaristic viewpoint... I wonder what the next step is?All ads that do not conform to the PNAC warmongering agenda are subject to such punishment? To me this goes beyond the organization penalized to what we stand for as Americans and what our Congress thinks about that... and I am ashamed of this Congress. And he was not sitting up there as a 'general' he was sitting up there as a 'salesman' making a pitch for the continuation of an illegal occupation that has killed more innocents and harmed more lives than any one ad from move on could do, and it is time they were called on it.