Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

The confusion of MoveOn

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-20-07 09:45 PM
Original message
The confusion of MoveOn

On MoveOn

by BooMan
Thu Sep 20th, 2007 at 06:13:33 PM EST

I think Matt Stoller asked excellent questions and was really well prepared. I think Gen. Wesley Clark explained very concisely why Stoller's view of the MoveOn situation is ultimately wrong. There are some things I could quibble about in Clark's answers and there are some points that Matt makes with which I agree.

But, at the end of the day, MoveOn.org's advertisement did not succeed in its mission. And I think it is wrong to hand the Democratic caucus a lit stick of dynamite and then freak out when they throw it back at you.

I know that there are a lot of people that are angry that the party did not have MoveOn's back. MoveOn made a tactical mistake. Their facts were basically correct (although not entirely). The analogy I made was:

1. Let's say that you are designing an advertisement for a new Cadillac. And for some reason you decide to put a giant banana on the top of the car.
2. Let's say that you test market the ad and discover that viewers remember the banana, but not the make and model of the car.

more


Stoller calls Obama a putz

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-20-07 09:49 PM
Response to Original message
1. Good post! n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EV_Ares Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-20-07 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
2. You can look at it that way, however, I don't think MoveOn did make a
Edited on Thu Sep-20-07 10:00 PM by EV_Ares
mistake. We are now into how many years on this war. It is time to hit hard as the dems are not going to do that it seems and there was nothing wrong with MoveOn's ad. Whatever will end this war and save lives. As far as I am concerned, the general decided to be political instead of being a general for his men and chose to do Bush's bidding. When he crossed that line, the ad was fair play. No Eisenhower, McArthur or Patton would have crossed that line and become a political toy for Bush. They were true generals and their men came first, not a political party.

As far as the vote today. The dems have been screaming they can't get enough votes to get anything passed. The republicans it appears don't seem to have that problem on getting enough votes with the dems helping them.

I also think that MoveOn could not have done a better job getting their name out there and some good advertising. I think the end result will be a huge increase in contributions. I think people don't mind donating to an organization with guts and knows the direction they are going and has a goal set.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-20-07 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
3. I think you missed the point. Thousands of people are sending money to moveon.
The ad was a tremendous success. The only people who need to learn are the democrats who voted against moveon today. Everyone will remember "betray-us". That is what the troops called him. That is what he is. Because of that ad, and the talk about it, people got the message that this general was lying. It is sad that the democrats (half of them) are such cowards. That is another rpoblem. but it is not moveon's problem. moveon has just become twice as strong and twice as credible as it was last week.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EV_Ares Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-20-07 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. I look for some hellish growth with MoveOn. They have the respect of
people. America wants this war ended. We may be surprised how many make contributions to them. I know I went ahead and did another one. It is one organization I am really proud of. They stand their ground.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-20-07 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. I quit last year, and have been dislinking mvoen. But this week they earned back my respect!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-20-07 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. I agree.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
durrrty libby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-20-07 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
4. I heard General Clark's explanation and agree with him
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-20-07 11:02 PM
Response to Original message
7. Kick! n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
yodermon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
9. What pisses me off is that no one is reading the content of the ad.
General Petraeus is a military man constantly at war with the facts. In 2004, just before the election, he said there
was “tangible progress” in Iraq and that “Iraqi leaders are stepping forward.” And last week Petraeus, the architect
of the escalation of troops in Iraq, said, “We say we have achieved progress, and we are obviously going to do
everything we can to build on that progress.”

Every independent report on the ground situation in Iraq shows that the surge strategy has failed. Yet the General
claims a reduction in violence. That’s because, according to the New York Times, the Pentagon has adopted a bizarre
formula for keeping tabs on violence. For example, deaths by car bombs don’t count. The Washington Post reported
that assassinations only count if you’re shot in the back of the head — not the front. According to the Associated
Press, there have been more civilian deaths and more American soldier deaths in the past three months than in any
other summer we’ve been there. We’ll hear of neighborhoods where violence has decreased. But we won’t hear that
those neighborhoods have been ethnically cleansed.


Most importantly, General Petraeus will not admit what everyone knows: Iraq is mired in an unwinnable religious
civil war. We may hear of a plan to withdraw a few thousand American troops. But we won’t hear what Americans are
desperate to hear: a timetable for withdrawing all our troops. General Petraeus has actually said American troops
will need to stay in Iraq for as long as ten years.

http://cdn.moveon.org/pac/content/pac/pdfs/PetraeusNYTad.pdf

These are substantive facts and valid criticisms of Petraeus. Yet Clark and the other Democrats do not address these points at all; they only nod in tired agreement with the republicans {a phrase I should never have to type wrt the war} about how making a pun on his name is the real issue and therefore the whole ad must be dismissed outright. :banghead:

Here's what the Democratic narrative should be: "Perhaps Moveon.org made a poor choice of words in making a pun on the General's name. But the core content of their ad is very important and is what should be addressed: Why don't deaths by car bombs count? Why do only back-of-the-head shots count as an assassination? Why isn't ethnic cleansing being discussed as the cause in the "decrease" in violence?"

Etc. Etc. Etc.

It's very simple. Democrats: Moveon.org set this up for you perfectly - the "betrayus" line gets the issue plastered all over the media, which gives you a perfect opportunity to pivot and talk about the actual content of the ad, while simultaneously criticizing the portions of it that was over the top. It was supposed to be a twofer. You folded with a full house. They tee'd it up for you, but you fumbled in the end zone. PICK A METAPHOR. :eyes:

But no. You just pass a weak-kneed resolution condemning the ad wholesale. Oh well, chalk up another cave-in by the Dems.

Moveon.org, however will be laughing all the way to the bank. All the attention will spike contributions to their PAC - money which will be used to elect more of your sorry asses. Hopefully they'll help elect Democrats with spines this time.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ToeBot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
10. Am I supposed to have heard of this 'BooMan'?
Am I supposed to be deferential to anyone that manages to post something on the web? Whatever.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Dude. He's a member of the famous BooMan Group. Duh.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Wed Apr 24th 2024, 04:26 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC