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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 10:04 AM
Original message
Re: Angry Democrats
Edited on Fri Sep-21-07 10:33 AM by rateyes
It is my opinion (and, this is opinion....please keep that in mind), and I hope I am wrong, that the Democratic Party is on a course that will cost us seats in the House and the Senate, and perhaps even the presidency in 2008.

There are those of us, myself included, who are so disgusted with the seeming impotency of a Democratic Congress in doing anything to stop this war, that we are about ready to give up. We have been told by some of our Representatives and Senators that "there is nothing we can do, because we don't have the votes." Angry Democrats, such as myself, don't buy that argument. We know that it is not true.

A few months ago, Nancy Pelosi said about funding the war in Iraq, "No more blank checks." Well, about a week after Bush vetoed a "deadline for dollars" bill, instead of sending back the same legislation, we wrote a blank check---the only caveat being that General Petraeus would come back and give an "unbiased report" (like a General can disobey the orders of his Commander-in-chief) on how the "surge" is working.

Somehow, before we wrote that blank check, the Congress (WITHOUT 60 VOTES IN THE SENATE) passed a "deadline for dollars" bill. So, to say that it can't be done, because we don't have the votes, just isn't true.

The reason the Democrats didn't stick to their guns, and keep sending up that same legislation, which FUNDED THE TROOPS, and instead wrote the blank check was, in my opinion, out of fear of losing at the polls in 2008.

Well, again, in my opinion, the Democratic Party is in danger of losing in 2008 anyway, because they listened to their fears, and wrote the blank check, which has made Democrats such as myself very angry. And, there's more of us than the Democratic leadership thinks there are who are ready to give up on the Democrats.

Now, I've heard the argument time and time again that, if the base abandons the Democratic Party, then we will get a Republican president in 2008. I believe that's true. But, the base IS starting to abandon the party, and some of us are starting not to care if the Republicans win the White House. The reasoning is that, if a Democratic majority in Congress can't get good legislation passed anyway, especially when it comes to the Iraq War, then what does it matter which party controls the White House?

So, what is the solution? The obvious answer is that we Democrats have to stand united. I agree. But, stand united on what principles? The argument I continually hear from those who are not angry with the leadership is: "I'm as frustrated as you are, but we have to stand united, and not criticize the leadership, and keep voting for them. If so, we will win the White House, and have a majority in the House, and a filibuster proof majority in the Senate." But, is that true?

Will we gain 11 seats in the Senate in 2008? I think that's a stretch. That means that we won't have a filibuster proof Senate. Which means, unless the Democratic leadership does what it has shown it's not predisposed to do now---keep Republican blank check legislation off the floor---then we will continue this slide into governmental hell.

But, even if we do gain 11 Senate seats, and get a filibuster proof majority...what makes us think that the Democrats in the Senate will stand united and break those filibusters. They showed yesterday how fractured the party really is, when half of the Democrats in the Senate could not bring themselves to either abstain from the vote, or vote no on the Cornyn amendment.

I do think the Democrats need to "stand united." But, for me, that does not mean that the base should move toward the center (for lack of better nouns). For me, it means that the moderates need to move toward the progressive wing of the party, and stand united with us.

Angry Democrats like myself, feel that the Democratic leadership in the House and Senate has taken our votes for granted...that, regardless of whether or not they stick to their guns on withdrawing our troops, or setting "deadlines for dollars," we will continue to hold our noses and pull the lever beside the candidate with the (D) beside his/her name.

And, I'm here to offer the opinion, that, this time, taking our votes for granted will be a big mistake. If the Democratic leadership wants to keep the party united, then they had better start standing firm on votes like those taken yesterday, and more importantly on legislation that will result in the end of this war sooner rather than later. They want us to stand with them, but then when it counts, they won't stand with us. Now, that statement may be hyperbolic. But, it might not be, too. At the least, that's how it looks to me, and, I believe, a lot of other Democrats, as well.

Therefore, I am begging the Democratic leadership to quit allowing votes on amendments like the ones offered yesterday. I am on my knees pleading for them to not pass any war funding bills that do not, at the least, tie dollars to mandatory deadlines for troop withdrawal. And, I'm asking those of you who are not angry with our leadership to understand the anger a lot of us feel, and to stand with us to hold our Democratic leaders' feet to the fire...not because you are angry with them...but, because it's what you know is right for the country.

And, if the leadership stands united with us...rather than asking us to stand united on a promise of better days ahead, when nothing shows us that such promises will be kept...if they will stand united with us, I am convinced that we will win the presidency, gain a greater majority in the House and Senate, and realize a better future for ourselves and the world.

If not, we're in trouble....in my opinion.

"Deadlines for Dollars." Don't capitulate. Please.

Edited for grammar.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
1. Betcha a star for a needy DUer we get something close to a sweep.
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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. I hope so. nt
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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. BTW, I noticed that someone, anonymously, gave
a star to me! To whomever that was...thanks. :hi:
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. DUers are nice like that.
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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Yes, they are.
Was it you?
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Nope. I can't see any stars at the moment - can't tell who needs one and who doesn't.
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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Well, I hope you are right about the sweep.
And, thanks for the kind words.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Me too. :) Kos has excellent detailed analysis of our prospects, if you're ever interested in detail
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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Thanks. I'll check it out.
I hope the prospects stay that way.
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againes654 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
3. K&R
Well said Rateyes!!!! I agree 100%.
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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Thanks. nt
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
11. Big K & R !!!
:bounce::patriot::bounce:

:kick:
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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Thanks WillyT...
Edited on Fri Sep-21-07 10:21 AM by rateyes
and I :patriot: you. You've been at it longer than I.
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
14. I love you rateyes.
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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. I love you too, robinlynne...
but, don't tell my wife! :blush:
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #16
20. lol.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
15. I am beginning to believe it is futile
There will be no movement in the party, it is too corrupted from within with corporate cash.
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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. I feel your pain,
and mine, too.
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #15
19. I have always been an election protection advocate. I lived in south america and saw
people go the streets to fight a dictatorship for the right to vote. But for the first time ever, I'm so upset with our party that I understand why people don't want to vote. I'll get over it, and will fihgt to get rid of Feinstein, my state's war mongering, warrantless surveillance supporting, fake election bill authoring "democrat" (Would that Maxine Waters might be interested in becoming a senator...), but I am sad and frustrated, and incredulous at what is going on in our congress!
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lateo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #15
23. Yep.
If there is going to be real change in this party it is not going to come from the establishment.
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PDenton Donating Member (513 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
18. Are you a single issue voter?
Because it sounds like the Iraq war is dominating your opinions on the Democrats performance in Congress.

I'll puth forth a contrarian notion... that the Democrats in 2006 were not elected to Congress on the Iraq war alone. It was a generalized disgust with Republicans.
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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. I not a "single-issue" voter....
but, innocent children are dying and being maimed because we won't stop this war. For me, all the other issues pale in comparison. First things, first.
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PDenton Donating Member (513 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #21
25. Second question
What makes you think if the US leaves Iraq, that the killings will stop?
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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. The solution in Iraq will be a political one...
not a military one. As long as we keep telling the Iraqi leadership that we will be there, they have no incentive to make that political decision. As long as we are there, the killing will continue. That's guaranteed.
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PDenton Donating Member (513 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. If the US leaves right now...
... the political solution will be a violent partition of the country along with ethnic cleansing. Think of Yugoslavia only on a much bigger scale.

I do not pretend to know which is more ethical, staying or leaving, but the consequences to leaving will certainly not be free for the United States long term interests or credibility.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #18
24. mostly Iraq
and now they are disgusted with both sides in congress.
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PA Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #18
28. With Iraq draining hundreds of billions of dollars out of the US Treasury
there is very little chance of addressing other issues which are important to me, like health care, making college education affordable, safeguarding Social Security, improving services for the disabled, reducing the deficit, medical research, developing alternative energy sources,etc.

There will be little to no progress on any of these issues as long as we are hemorrhaging money for this war. And there's no way any politician would suggest substantially raising taxes to pay for the above.
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PDenton Donating Member (513 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. Bingo
... it just costs too much, and we get too little out of it. Yes, ridding the world of Saddam and creating a bastion for Democracy is all well and good, but it is very much over budget. I also don't think we're making the world all that much safer. Bush seems to think we are killing terrorists over there, so we don't have to fight them over here. But they said the same thing in Vietnam about the Vietcong, and they had millions and millions of soldiers to throw away. The Iraqis have a couple hundred million potential recruits. We just don't have the bullets to kill every last one of them, Bush's logic is insane.

I'm not even considering the civilian deaths or military deaths. It's far too abstract and morally arguable to way one life vs. another. But surely we can weight the dollars and cents of it.
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Bitwit1234 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
22. The idea about not getting votes is stupid
Knowing full well, because of the criticism of their votes, the outrage that they can't single handedly make the republicans vote with them, why would the democrats cave just to get votes.

They know full well that voting to give bush money for Iraq IS NOT WANT THE PEOPLE WANT THEM TO DO. So I think, voting to de-fund the troops is not about being scared they will loose votes. It's got to be something else. Because if they keep voting with bush they are not stupid enough to think it is going to gain favor with their constitutions.
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