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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 11:07 AM
Original message
Ok, the dollar is in free fall, real estate and mortgages are tanking..
and massive stagflation is right around the corner.

This pretty much does me in economically. My minuscule 401k is in a money market account, my condo is worth much less than it was 5 years ago when I bought it and my ARM is getting ready to adjust (yes, I bought into the scam).

My question is very simple.. What the hell do I do to protect at least some of my capital? I can no longer expect an honest answer from any of the companies that hold my money.. They've lied to me in the past, and they'll lie again.

Any suggestions short of moving my money out of the system and under my mattress?
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 11:09 AM
Response to Original message
1. I posted about a new bill introduced that's genuinely aimed at helping the....
... subprime/arm buyer. No one much cared - only bad news gets any play.
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mikelgb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 11:09 AM
Response to Original message
2. I'll take good care of it for you...
:evilgrin:
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 11:11 AM
Response to Original message
3. Can you not refi into a fixed mortgage? if so, can you even go FHA?
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. Maybe, but I got screwed by a credit card company a year ago..
and my credit rating took a hit. Refinancing is probably not even worth the effort, nor is it worth sacrificing my savings for the closing costs.

I'll probably have to give in depending on how bad my mortgage company decides to screw me next month. I'm scared to death.

Do you have any suggestions who I should talk to about a refi. Someone who's honest?
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. Check into a local Wells Fargo who would handle FHA loans.
Edited on Fri Sep-21-07 11:22 AM by Roland99
not sure if you could refi. Need to check to see if you have early payoff penalties and if you're in that time period still and I don't know if FHA does refis.

As for the credit hit (and even more mortgage questions), check out:

http://creditboards.com/forums/



Oh, the reason I mention FHA is that they don't look specifically at your FICO score. If you have open collections or judgements, that would hurt but, otherwise, people have a good chance at getting an FHA-backed loan provided it meets financing limits for housing prices in your area. FICO score might bump the interest rate up a bit, though.

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ljm2002 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. I don't know how big a hit your credit took...
...but that does not necessarily preclude a refi.

See if you can refi through FHA.

Sorry, no idea about who is trustworthy or not. But FHA is certainly a well known entity.
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #10
17. Not bad at all when I look at it..
It's the only bad mark on my credit in the past 15 years, but it was enough to keep me from getting a good rate on a car loan 6 months ago. I've never missed a payment on my mortgage or any of my past loans. You'd think they would take that fact into account, but they don't. Chase fucked me.
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ljm2002 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #17
31. In that case you should be an excellent candidate for a refi...
...maybe you can ask around and get a word-of-mouth recommendation from a friend.
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MissB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #7
34. I was reading an article yesterday that said for an FHA loan
(to bailout an ARM), they wanted 3% equity in the house. Hopefully you're not upside down at this point.

I hope it gets better for you.
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #34
38. I'd bet I'm doing better than 90% of the people out there..
I'm just frightened of the near future, and this dollar thing has me majorly spooked.

I'm definitely going to check out the FHA thing. Pretty sure I've paid enough principle that I'm not upside down even with the big drop in price. Thank gawd I didn't get suckered in to an interest only loan!
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #7
40. FHA loans don't look at credit scores.
there's only one way to do an FHA, so anybody who offers them should be okay to work with.
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
4. But Bush's economy is GREAT!
He said so. And he never lies.

.
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Orrex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. I've had three separate people tell me
That the economy is great because "just look how high the DOW is!"

Well, if mega-millionaires are doing okay, then I guess the economy's in great shape after all. Silly me for looking at the financial desolation of the middle class and thinking that something might be amiss.
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. You mean they aren't trickling down on you?
They're pissing on everybody else!

.
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jimnasium Donating Member (202 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
8. Safest bet would be in precious metals...
As the dollar continues to fall, Gold, Silver and Platinum will increase in value.

Just sell off when the dollar recovers after *'s economic debacle comes to its merciful conclusion around 2010. You should be able to profit well. :-)
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #8
14. Yah - speculate MORE - that's SOOO what Americans need!
:rofl:

DUers slay me.
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tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #14
19. Well, oh wise one, why don't you tell us what Americans really need.
You think leaving funds where they are is not speculating? "No action" is a speculative decision.

Self-proclaimed geniuses slay me.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #19
29. To stop gambling and to stop taking out loans they can't afford. Duh.
Amazing how low the "genius" bar is set at in America.
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jimnasium Donating Member (202 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #29
41. Damn... I thought it was hi-def pr0n!
:toast:
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we can do it Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #8
21. How About Baseball Cards?
:rofl:
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #21
30. I heard Pokemon is making a comeback.
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durablend Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
11. Never mind protect your capital--GO SHOPPING!
At least try to do your part to help our ever booming economy!

:sarcasm:
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BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
12. I suggest talking to the bank you do business with first......
and closing costs can be figured into your loan.

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Zywiec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
13. Why is your 401K in a money market account?
How old are you, and when do you plan to retire?
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #13
18. I pulled it out of the market when Enron happened.
I don't trust the market.

Maybe that was a stubborn move, but it felt moral at the time.
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Zywiec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. How is that moral? Enron is only one company.
You need to speak with a financial advisor who is rational and not emotional.
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #20
23. Enron is only one company out of thousands just like them.
And nothing was done post-Enron to give me any more confidence.

Do you think the market will survive a worthless dollar?
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Zywiec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. I'm a long-term investor
I don't look at the market from day to day, but rather it's history of positive returns.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
15. It's 'official'! The Canadian dollar is now worth more than the US dollar.
1 USD = 0.99755 CAD

http://www.xe.com/
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Wcross Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
16. Move your money into something that will keep pace w/ inflation.
I moved mine into energy, gold & foreign stocks. I won't make a killing on them but I won't lose due to the weak dollar.

The GOOD news for you is that you will be repaying your loan with really cheap dollars! That mortgage payment won't seem as large when you are paying 6 dollars for gas and 4 bucks for a loaf of white bread.
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Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
22. Invest in the Euro
Liquidate US dollars as they are soon to be almost worthless.
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. That's kind of what I was thinking, but..
I also don't want to intentionally screw my country.

This is such a complex problem, and I know it's affecting millions of Americans even if they don't realize it yet. Our leaders need to stop voting on MoveOn advertisements and get down to real business. Our country's survival is at stake.
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A HERETIC I AM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #22
36. There you go! Buy High, Sell low. Perfect strategy.
Suggesting somebody buy Euro now is like suggesting buying tech stocks in December of 1999.
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lapislzi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
25. Check with your 401k administrator
See whether you can start building a small CD ladder. Interest rates aren't great right now, but you will at least have some security and protection from market fluctuations. PM me if you don't know what a CD ladder is.

And if you don't trust your 401k administrator, speak to someone you do trust. The 401k administrator is legally obliged to carry out your wishes with your money.

I yanked my money a few months ago (administrator was no help), and boy am I glad I did.

You might also consider liquidating a portion of that 401k due to economic hardship. It can be done.
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truebrit71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #25
33. That's not actually correct...the 401(k) admin is obligated to do what you tell them to do...
...within the structure of the plan...

Many plans do not offer CD's....but they usually will have some sort of bond portfolio...
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A HERETIC I AM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #25
35. You yanked your 401(K) ? Are you older than 59 and a half?
Edited on Fri Sep-21-07 04:32 PM by A HERETIC I AM
If you aren't, I'm curious how you justified the 10% penalty PLUS the tax consequences. And by "yanked" do you mean liquidated?

It is, of course no business of mine whatsoever and i realize you aren't advocating the same thing for the OP (You aren't, are you?) I just find that sort of thing to be a very curious decision if it was made merely because you were concerned about the market.

As far as "Economic Hardship" is concerned, this is what the IRS says, from Publication 575 (http://www.irs.gov/publications/p575/ar02.html#d0e4359 )

General exceptions. The tax does not apply to distributions that are:

*

Made as part of a series of substantially equal periodic payments (made at least annually) for your life (or life expectancy) or the joint lives (or joint life expectancies) of you and your designated beneficiary (if from a qualified retirement plan, the payments must begin after separation from service). See Substantially equal periodic payments, later,
*

Made because you are totally and permanently disabled, or
*

Made on or after the death of the plan participant or contract holder.

Additional exceptions for qualified retirement plans. The tax does not apply to distributions that are:

*

From a qualified retirement plan (other than an IRA) after your separation from service in or after the year you reached age 55 (age 50 for qualified public safety employees),
*

From a qualified retirement plan (other than an IRA) to an alternate payee under a qualified domestic relations order,
*

From a qualified retirement plan to the extent you have deductible medical expenses (medical expenses that exceed 7.5% of your adjusted gross income), whether or not you itemize your deductions for the year,
*

From an employer plan under a written election that provides a specific schedule for distribution of your entire interest if, as of March 1, 1986, you had separated from service and had begun receiving payments under the election,
*

From an employee stock ownership plan for dividends on employer securities held by the plan,
*

From a qualified retirement plan due to an IRS levy of the plan, or
*
From elective deferral accounts under 401(k) or 403(b) plans, or similar arrangements, that are qualified reservist distributions.


And the following from the IRS Retirement Plans FAQ article ( http://www.irs.gov/retirement/article/0,,id=162416,00.html )

1. Under what circumstances can a participant get a hardship distribution from a retirement plan?

A retirement plan may, but is not required to, provide for hardship distributions. Many plans that provide for elective deferrals provide for hardship distributions. Thus, 401(k) plans, 403(b) plans, and 457(b) plans may permit hardship distributions.
It is important to clarify this point with the plan provider

If a 401(k) plan provides for hardship distributions, it must provide the specific criteria used to make the determination of hardship. Thus, for example, a plan may provide that a distribution can be made only for medical or funeral expenses, but not for the purchase of a principal residence or for payment of tuition and education expenses. In determining the existence of a need and of the amount necessary to meet the need, the plan must specify and apply nondiscriminatory and objective standards.
(Reg. §1.401(k)-1(d)(3)(i))

The rules for hardship distributions from 403(b) plans are similar to those for hardship distributions from 401(k) plans.

If a 457(b) plan provides for hardship distributions, it must contain specific language defining what constitutes a distribution on account of an "unforeseeable emergency."
(Reg. § 1.457-6(c)(2))2. What is the IRS definition of hardship for a 401(k) plan?

For a distribution from a 401(k) plan to be on account of hardship, it must be made on account of an immediate and heavy financial need of the employee and the amount must be necessary to satisfy the financial need. The need of the employee includes the need of the employee's spouse or dependent. (Reg. §1.401(k)-1(d)(3)(i))

Under the provisions of the Pension Protection Act of 2006, the need of the employee also may include the need of the employee's non-spouse, non-dependent beneficiary.

Whether a need is immediate and heavy depends on the facts and circumstances. Certain expenses are deemed to be immediate and heavy, including: (1) certain medical expenses; (2) costs relating to the purchase of a principal residence; (3) tuition and related educational fees and expenses; (4) payments necessary to prevent eviction from, or foreclosure on, a principal residence; (5) burial or funeral expenses; and (6) certain expenses for the repair of damage to the employee's principal residence. Expenses for the purchase of a boat or television would generally not qualify for a hardship distribution. A financial need may be immediate and heavy even if it was reasonably foreseeable or voluntarily incurred by the employee.
(Reg. §1.401(k)-1(d)(3)(iii))

A distribution is not considered necessary to satisfy an immediate and heavy financial need of an employee if the employee has other resources available to meet the need, including assets of the employee's spouse and minor children. Whether other resources are available is determined based on facts and circumstances. Thus, for example, a vacation home owned by the employee and the employee's spouse generally is considered a resource of the employee, while property held for the employee's child under an irrevocable trust or under the Uniform Gifts to Minors Act is not considered a resource of the employee. (Reg. §1.401(k)-1(d)(3)(iv)(B))

A distribution is deemed necessary to satisfy an immediate and heavy financial need of an employee if: (1) the employee has obtained all other currently available distributions and loans under the plan and all other plans maintained by the employer; and (2) the employee is prohibited, under the terms of the plan or an otherwise legally enforceable agreement, from making elective contributions and employee contributions to the plan and all other plans maintained by the employer for at least 6 months after receipt of the hardship distribution. (Reg. §1.401(k)-1(d)(3)(iv)(E))

A hardship distribution may not exceed the amount of the employee's need. However, the amount required to satisfy the financial need may include amounts necessary to pay any taxes or penalties that may result from the distribution.
(Reg. §1.401(k)-1(d)(3)(iv)(A))
Bold Italics mine
On Edit to make bold a salient point
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taught_me_patience Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
26. Your condo is worth less than 2003 prices?
Wow... housing is much worse than I thought (and I'm a major housing bear). You seem to have two options: walk away from the condo and take the tax hit on the debt forgiveness. Or you could try to increase your income so that you can meet your debt obligations. Have you considered looking for a new job with more pay? How about doing some side business to make enough cash to meet your bills?
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. I don't have any debt, just a mortgage.
Edited on Fri Sep-21-07 12:37 PM by tridim
My condo is currently selling for about 10% less than I bought it for. There are units in my complex (which is nice BTW) that have been on the market for a year. I have no problem paying my mortgage and bills, for now at least.

The credit card in question only had a $500 balance that I was paying off monthly. At the time I was struggling so I was making the minimum payment electronically, the CC company raised the minimum payment one day for no reason and thus the credit rating hit. I missed the minimum payment by only $10/month. I still think they did it on purpose because I was paying off the card and not using it.
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taught_me_patience Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #28
32. Gotta plan for the mortgage reset
Get ahead of the game by shoring up your credit and find some small side business where you can make a bit more cash. I'm suprised your credit took that big of a hit from missing a payment?
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #32
37. I missed 6 in a row.
Electronic payment has made me lazy. They only decided to call me after it was too late.
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Kingshakabobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #28
39. One 30 day late on a CC shouldn't hurt you.
What kind of down payment did you apply to the deal when you purchased? Loan to value sounds like it MIGHT be a problem. Fannie mae/Freddie Mac is fairly lenient when it comes to revolving lates

P.S. I'm a mortgage banker.......licensed in Colorado.
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