DUers and Freepers are a lot alike

[cali]

when it comes to the DINO/RHINO issue. They hate RHINOS with an equal intensity to DUers hatred of blue dogs/DINOS.

Over there, the dimwits are so busy cheering the departure or defeat of ANY RHINO, no matter what part of the country that person is from, that they can't wrap it around their wee heads, that having the majority is important. They'd prefer to have a pure delegation of 42 in the Senate, and 150 in the House, to having to put up with John Warner, Chuck Hagel and the Maine ladies.

That's not so different from the attitudes of many DUers.

And just one more similarity: Freepers constantly complain about how pukes always fold and dems at least stand up and fight. I know that's particularly ironic right now, but it's interesting how much perception sways us.

[terip64]

1. Thank you. You are exactly right. K&R

[Bread and Circus]

2. DU'ers and freepers are a lot more alike than just that...

sadly. In-group, out-group bias is part of human nature.

[BlooInBloo]

4. Digby posts about it regularly. She calls it "tribe"....

EDIT: Link to her first sustained discussion of it - I think:

http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2004_11_07_digbysblog_archive.html#109987724274609518

[lumberjack_jeff]

3. There's a qualitiative difference.

Olympia Snowe is a much better Republican than Joe Lieberman is a Democrat.

What passes for a moderate Republican is so close to the rest of the group that it's a distinction without a difference. There is hardly anything in the Democratic party platform with which our DINO's will agree.

[BlooInBloo]

6. And that difference is also reflected in the natures of DUers and freepers...

... Most DUers are oodles closer to "true middle" than just about every freeper.

[cali]

11. By what objective standard?

That's your perception; it's also mine, but I recognize it as bias/perception, not objective measurement like party fidelity.

[bvar22]

55. Here are some "measurements" that help define the True Middle.

Here is what the MAJORITY of Americans (Democrats AND Republicans) want from OUR government!

In recent polls by the Pew Research Group, the Opinion Research Corporation, the Wall Street Journal, and CBS News, the American majority has made clear how it feels. Look at how the majority feels about some of the issues that you'd think would be gospel to a real Democratic Party:

1. 65 percent (of ALL Americans, Democrats AND Republicans) say the government should guarantee health insurance for everyone -- even if it means raising taxes.

2. 86 percent favor raising the minimum wage (including 79 percent of selfdescribed "social conservatives").

3. 60 percent favor repealing either all of Bush's tax cuts or at least those cuts that went to the rich.

4. 66 percent would reduce the deficit not by cutting domestic spending but by reducing Pentagon spending or raising taxes.

5. 77 percent believe the country should do "whatever it takes" to protect the environment.

6. 87 percent think big oil corporations are gouging consumers, and 80 percent (including 76 percent of Republicans) would support a windfall profits tax on the oil giants if the revenues went for more research on alternative fuels.

7. 69 percent agree that corporate offshoring of jobs is bad for the U.S. economy (78 percent of "disaffected" voters think this), and only 22% believe offshoring is good because "it keeps costs down."

http://alternet.org/story/29788/

8. Over 63% oppose the War on the Iraqi People.

9. 92% of ALL Americans support TRANSPARENT, VERIFIABLE elections!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x446445

The above numbers are from December 2005.

[fenriswolf]

56. ?????

92% of ALL Americans support TRANSPARENT, VERIFIABLE elections!


does that mean that 8 out of a 100 people want to vote and then do not want a way to verify that their vote was counted correctly?

as in "here is my vote, do with it what you will"

[lumberjack_jeff]

57. It means that the people they approve of in the position of counting votes.

They know that democracy is a head fake and they're okay with that.

[bvar22]

59. Don't know how you got that, but

it means 92% of Amricans DON'T want their vote disappearing into a computer system with private code not available for public inspection.

It means that 92% want a system that is open to inspection, and accountability, and has provisions for an accurate recount.

It means that 92% of Americans would prefer to see their paper ballot inserted into a secure transparent ballot box, and then have the ballots hand counted in public (Inet Video) with the results posted at the precinct.

Transparent, Verifiable Elections.
The ONLY candidate who supports this issue is Dennis Kucinich.
The rest are silent on the issue of Election Integrity.

Do you oppose Transparent, Verifiable Elections?


The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.

[fenriswolf]

60. i agree with you

i know, im agreeing with you. what I'm saying is 8% do not want trancparent elections which i find incredible that we 100% people who want transparent elections

[bvar22]

61. OOPS!

My bad. I misread your post.

I'm mystified that 8% of the respondants say they don't want secure elections. :shrug:

I am also mystified WHY the Democratic Party has NOT siezed this issue and lead the charge with 92% of America behind them....talk about a WINNING ISSUE!
The SILENCE of the Democratic Party on THIS issue IS DAMNABLE!

Could it be that the 8% are the Professional Politicians who prefer the riggable Status Quo?


BTW: Welcome to DU!
:party:

[onenote]

32. actually, that's not accurate. Snowe has voted "against" her party more than anyone in the Senate

In the 109th Congress, Snowe voted with the Repub position only 71 percent of the time; Lieberman voted with the Democratic position 89 percent of the time. So far this Congress (the 110th), Snowe is only voting with a majority of the repubs 62.4% of the time. I don't know what Lieberman's number is in terms of voting with/against a majority of Demcocrats, and its probably far less than it was in the 89th Cong, but is it less than 62 percent?

[lumberjack_jeff]

58. Thanks. I'm sure my bias colors my views. n/t

[Renew Deal]

5. I agree with you.

I've noticed the same thing. They're always complaining that frist/boner/McConnel/nameyourownmoran "caved to the dems again." This all goes on while people here shout that the dems caved. It's almost disturbing.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

7. The ninth circle of hell is reserved for traitors.

So yeah, freepers and DUers both hat RINOs and DINOs respectively.

We also are both ~60% water, and breath oxygen.

Freepers, on the other hand, think that majority is fine enough even when that majority is corrupt as hell, supporting the war in Iraq, and screwing over the American people.

DUers don't think that. Well, at least the good ones. Present company included.

[BlooInBloo]

8. W00t! Alighieri reference! You win!

:)

[cali]

13. But they don't

many of them are OK with being in the minority as long as the RHINOS are driven out.

[MrCoffee]

16. Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate

[BlooInBloo]

42. Abandon hope all ye who enter?

[Atman]

9. There's a lot of truth to that. Not just FR, though. Read "that other site," too

You'd think you were in the Twilight Zone. All the media is ultra-liberal, even though not one bad thing about BushCo is ever broadcast -- unless it's a story about his poll numbers, which they also point to as being totally biased. All polling is biased toward liberals, just as all media is biased toward liberals, even Fox. It's totally surreal. If you stripped out certain tells like screen names and particular key words, most of the posts on FR or CU could easily be mistaken for the average DU post.

.

[rodeodance]

10. Dems ARE standing up in the Senate! -----even if they lose!

And just one more similarity: Freepers constantly complain about how pukes always fold and dems at least stand up and fight. I know that's particularly ironic right now, but it's interesting how much perception sways us.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

12. What does the acronym RHINO stand for?

I imagine it's Republicans *something* In Name Only, but I can't come up with the second letter.

TIA

[cali]

14. I'm such a goof

I keep writing RHINO, when I mean RINO.

[BlooInBloo]

17. An argument winning goof! yah!

:)

[cali]

22. Having a pictorial mind

I always see repukes as Rhinoceri and dems as these sort of Barney like Dinosaurs.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

28. Not a goofy mistake

It makes sense that your mind would want to spell it correctly. I didn't know they called R's such as that RINO or I would never have asked.

Besides, they do kind of resemble rhinos. :P

Thanks for the explanation.

[Captain Hilts]

15. You are exactly right. nt

[WilliamPitt]

18. Always has been, always will be.

RHINO:



:P

[TwilightGardener]

19. I disagree--we are FAR more tolerant of our "strays" in the Democratic

party than the Repugs are of theirs. Just today, Ben Nelson and Mark Pryor stabbed us in the back in our efforts to end the war. I posted on it, and was mostly alone in my outrage. What's Reid going to do about those two? Nothing. They're in red states, and we will turn a blind eye to their demoralizing actions today, and they won't lose any respect or status in the party. GOPers have been out for Specter's, Warner's and Hagel's blood for years, on the other hand, and two are now retiring, as despised as ever, and Specter isn't likely to run again. The only reason the Weak Maine Sisters are still in office is because Maine is in New England and thus R's are an endangered species--but they get no respect from their party. Same with Gordon Smith. That's the difference--we allow our members to dissent and still support them--GOPers punish dissent, always.

[cali]

23. I agree with you regarding internal

party politics, but I still maintain that the loathing for blue dogs/DINOs here, is akin for the loathing of RINOs, there.

[TwilightGardener]

33. Until we start seriously "primarying" our Blue Dogs, I still disagree.

I know Daily Kos advocates that stuff, but it's not really happening. I'm not saying we should, either--for me, there is always room for dissent on everything...except the war. THAT is the historic, life-or-death, world-changing issue of our times, and any Dem that suddenly weakens on it is actively harming our soldiers and our country. Rank and file Repubs are actually less unified/more conflicted on the war (there is a sizable minority who want withdrawal) than rank and file Dems, who overwhelmingly oppose the war, and yet any Repub in office is automatically toast for going against the party line on Iraq, no matter how otherwise loyal. That is some serious party discipline. Dems, however, are openly BEGGING Bob Kerrey to run, who is essentially pro-war. Can you imagine Republicans BEGGING Chuck Hagel not to retire?

[Atman]

27. Even on that one, they say the EXACT SAME THING

Go on, read 'em.

They insist that we tombstone anyone at the drop of a hat if they so much as say one nice thing about Bush. They believe it...read 'em. But they insist they don't tombstone anyone, ever. Except for me, apparently.

.

[Mike Daniels]

43. The FReeps and others of ther ilk consider Warner a traitor for torpedoing North's run at the Senate

Warner could have voted with the Repub's 100% of the time and been Bush's lapdog and they'd still hate him regardless strictly for that "turncoat" moment.

Interesting enough, Warner likely won reelection a few years after that due to Dems crossing over to vote for him in the Rep. primary (which Warner managed to make open) and general election.

[TwilightGardener]

44. Yep--when Warner announced his retirement plans, many Freeps

brought up that Ollie North thing. Elephants never forget, or forgive.

[xchrom]

20. yay!!! more joe liebermans -- that's the solution

:crazy:

[cali]

24. Riiight. Because that's just what I was saying. Not.

[EstimatedProphet]

48. Don't worry, he's just proving what you said.

[AuntPatsy]

21. The similarities are definitely there, no one can dispute that one.

[Lerkfish]

25. even opposing groups can agree on something: why suffer quislings in your ranks?

I mean, honestly.

[BoneDaddy]

26. Wonderful post

and as others have extrapolated, the comparisons are very often deeper. Each extreme, and there are plenty on here, thinks that their rabid view of the world is "absolutely correct".

And the funny thing is that each group projects their "shadow" onto the other group. It is quite funny to see the same thing happen on the freeper boards as what happens on this board. Sad but funny.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

29. Hmmm

That's because most folks surround themselves with folks that think like them and then fallaciously infer everybody thinks like them...

[BoneDaddy]

52. That is certainly part of it

and the sense of superiority that goes along with it.

[Mythsaje]

30. Hmmm...

Similarities:

We take politics seriously.
We post on a site that reflects what we see as our core values.
We want to believe that our elected representatives actually represent us.
We get mad when it turns out they don't...or aren't.

Differences.

We can spell.
We can analyze information more efficiently.
We can be reasoned with.


The fact that they think the media bias goes the other way, and that the Repugs in Congress "cave" to the Dems shows they're looney tunes. Oh, yeah, I forgot to mention that one. THEY'RE FUCKING NUTS.

But other than that, we're exactly alike.

:eyes:

[xchrom]

31. i wish we could nominate for crazy threads.

:crazy:

[cali]

34. Well,

You realize, right, that I never said that Freepers and Duers were exactly alike? And no, not all freepers are illiterate and not all DUers are exemplary spellers. Quite a few DUers, in my experience, can't be reasoned with.

I do agree that a lot of them are fucking nuts, and beyond that racists, homophobes and misogynists. The former is my perception, the latter is supported by ample evidence. And that's a huge difference.

[Mythsaje]

45. My response was a bit tongue-in-cheek...

I know that not all freepers can't spell, and that all DUers CAN.

On the other hand, we know they're ideologically twisted and they believe entirely too many things that are not so, and, what's more, CAN'T be so.

But stuff like what happened yesterday is why a LOT of Americans--entirely too many in my estimation--don't bother with politics. There's entirely too much compromise with people who shouldn't be tolerated, much less pandered to. It generates disgust with the whole process, and those who are riding the fence between totally disenchantment and involvement are likely to off the train entirely rather than hold onto a tenuous belief that their opinions matter.

I'm too invested these days to bail, but I speak from personal experience. I used to think that there wasn't anything we could do and that there was NO way a bunch of rich lawyers could possibly represent ME or my interests.

Some try, I think...to the best of their ability. But is it enough?

[H2O Man]

35. Some might even

be both.

[cali]

37. Yes, there are trolls, but that's not what i"m talking about.

But you knew that. Thanks for yourinsightful comment.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

39. Yup. n/t

[G_j]

36. point being?? n/t

[cali]

38. I think it's interesting. n/t

[G_j]

40. are you sure

there is not a passive aggressive undercurrent to your post?
Assuming perhaps that you are not included in the types of folks you refer to..

[cali]

46. Are you sure

it's a good idea to try and psychoanalyze people on a polical website?

More seriously, I find it a fascinating subject. And no, I'm not a troll or a freeper, and the last thing most people think of me as is passive/agressive.

[G_j]

50. ok, I'll accept that

just asking,
I never thought you were a troll

[ecstatic]

41. When did pukes fold? nt

[cali]

47. It's all about perception. n/t

[Whisp]

49. somewhat true. we are all yanked around by

the so called 'elected' people who supposedly represent us rabble.

[Retired AF Dem]

51. Of the two groups

which one does the tinfoil manufacturers pander to? :)

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

54. It helps to understand...

...that for the most part the truly shrill Freepers as well as the truly shrill DUers are not the base of the parties. They are just the people who bitch the loudest on the internet.

[tammywammy]

62. Ohhh, agreed 100%

[parkia00]

64. Agreed and well put!

Just opposite ends of the spectrum. Both sides also seem to have key words that set them of on a raging attack. For Freepers it's "Clinton, Liberal and Muslim". For the DU side it's likely "Corporation, Taser and China."

[provis99]

63. How about a political edition of Survival? Us vs. freepers

Who can build the best society on a deserted tropical island? Yes, the DUers would yell and complain, but we'd get something set up. Freepers would yell, complain, and then tear each other apart. Thats one difference I see.