My bar room brawl over the stolen election of 2000.

[Cyrano]

The "brawls" I had during my army years were enough to last a lifetime. And while I was very young, it didn't take me long to realize that it's a "sport" for idiots. Nonetheless, I started one today, if you want to call two guys going at it for a short time, a "brawl."

About twice a week, I'll do happy hour. It's not alcoholism so much as a taste for the best bloody mary mix in the world which they serve.

But to get to the point, I was talking to an acquaintance about -- ta-da -- politics. We were discussing whether or not this current California scam by Republicans to divide up electoral votes by district would come about. And, if it did, how it would be another Republican theft of democracy.

Some guy who overheard us, and whom I had never seen before, was sitting near me. He turned around and said something to effect of how "... you and your type will never get over President Bush's 2000 Florida victory, will you?"

I'd had only one drink, but I could feel my blood pressure hitting the danger zone. That's not a statement that a rational person would want to make in Palm Beach County. My reply was not polite and was something like, "That was a stolen election and most sane people know it. And anyone who doubts it is either a moron or an asshole. Which one are you?"

To the best of my recollection, that's when the fists starting flying. I ended up with a cut lip and he ended up with (what I hope was) a broken nose. The other people there broke it up fairly quickly. He got thrown out, I sat there stewing for a while, finished my drink and came home.

As a strong advocate of nonviolence, I feel ashamed. And I also feel that I should have swung harder to punch this screaming asshole into the middle of next week. It's sad when our emotions overcome our values. But sometimes, it sure as hell can be satisfying.

[againes654]

1. Good for you

I don't advocate violence either, but some people need a kick in the a** or nose in your case

[ourbluenation]

2. may not have been the best way to respond but I'll bet he never does that again.

...and HE got shown the door, you didn't. maybe some others felt the same way as you.

[BlueJazz]

3. I want to have your Baby.

[LiberalVoice]

15. Hey!

I beat up people too! :P

[ThomWV]

4. Why do you feel ashamed? I've have beat him to death with a barstool.

I make no apology for myself and you don't need one either.

[Zywiec]

9. Very progressive thinking, beating someone to death.... n/t

[backscatter712]

34. Well, you don't want to beat someone to death, but...

Bruises and black eyes heal, y'know...

[ThomWV]

59. Very regressive thinking: To allow yourself to be beat down by anyone anytime.

[Ghost in the Machine]

61. Progressive does NOT mean Pacifist, which, btw, ends with FIST!

HA!

[followthemoney]

72. Progressive doesn't mean wimpy.

More working class Dems wear a uniform than Republican dandies. the Republican idea of supporting troops is a bumper sticker and beating up a gold star mother or father.

[Zywiec]

74. So you agree with the statement about beating a guy to death

with a barstool over a comment about the 2000 election? This means you're not wimpy, but progressive?

:eyes:

[The Traveler]

5. Non violence is wonderful approach

But sometimes, a solid punch in the nose is just what a guy needs to straighten out his life.

I say you were just acting from a higher level of compassion ... :evilgrin:

[IntravenousDemilo]

6. Good on ya for smoking him, IF HE THREW THE FIRST PUNCH, of course.

On the other hand, I do believe that one of the humanity's biggest problems has always been an excess of passion.

[Dr Fate]

7. Who threw the first punch?

If it was the other guy, then you have nothing to feel guilty about.

If you threw the 1st punch, well, I personaly dont have a huge problem with you for that either!!!

Next time stay a little cooler!!!

[rusty quoin]

8. I bet more fists fights happen leading up to the election.

It's going to get ugly. That smug McCain taunting anti war protesters, at the NRA pissed me off.

[Whisp]

10. emotions are good.

don't let anyone tell you different.
so you decked a dork, big deal. Think of the emotionallness bastards at the helm right now KILLING in millions.

[SammyWinstonJack]

56. Tell me that asshat wasn't expecting too be hit? He knew and expected the reaction he got.

[Canuckistanian]

11. Ha ha! Sorry, I shouldn't laugh.

But, OMG, what a stupid "get over it" statement, especially these days when all the details have been exposed and considering Shrub's low approval numbers.

That argument may have worked in 2002, but it's SURE to get a reaction now. And I think yours was perfectly reasonable.

Still, he threw the first punch. Right?

[Cyrano]

20. In a situation like that, who knows?

Anyone who has ever been in a situation like that, could never really say. I remember the same was true back in my army days. It was always "the other guy" and no one ever really had the vaguest idea what happened or who had started it.

When something like that gets going, "objective reality" evaporates in a second.

[Faygo Kid]

12. The Senate would vote 72-25 to condemn your action.

I for one wish you could give the 72 a good punch in the nose for all of us.

[Whisp]

13. ;)

[CatWoman]

30. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!

:rofl:

[Cha]

70. You go faygo!

Cyrano was just feelin' his spinach!

[karlrschneider]

14. I'll buy you a bloody mary any day!

:toast:

[Cyrano]

29. Thank you, thank you, thank you. You've made me believe there really is a God --

as long as that bloody mary has lots of Tabasco sauce and horse radish in it.

[GoneOffShore]

16. You didn't start the fire

He spoke up, you responded, he swung.

ipso facto - he started the brawl.

And the pleasure to contemplate is that he got thrown out of the bar. And perhaps he got a lesson that he will convey to others - liberals are not to be trifled with.

My congratulations, sir.

[slackmaster]

17. At the risk of getting myself beaten up,

There are some intelligent, thoughtful, well-meaning people out there who don't believe the election of 2000 was stolen.

It comes down to a matter of opinion, and you know everybody has one.

[griffi94]

18. you were talking

to someone you know and he decided to put himself in the middle of it.
what a jackass, he went out of his way to get offended, down wher i'm from we call that pickin a fight.
remember sometimes the only way you can get people to act right is to ball up yer fist and hit em upside the head.

[Cleita]

19. You make me nostalgic for my old bartending days.

I was a sort of barmaid dominatrix because I allowed political discussions, and this was during the Nixon fall from grace days, but I knew they could get volatile so I had one rule, no fist fighting or anything physical. Anyone getting into a fight would be 86'd permanently and that meant both parties. I wasn't interested in who was right or wrong. So my patrons and I developed a system.

If a patron thought he was going to hit someone, he had to raise his hand palm forward. That was my clue to grab the drink of the guy who was going to be hit and take it to the other end of the bar. Then he could argue with me all he wanted, by which I informed him, if he didn't finish his drink quietly, shut up and leave the other guy plenty of space, I wasn't serving him anymore that day. So it was kind of my dominatrix days. My husband wanted me to discourage political discourse, but I enjoyed it too much because we had so many smart people come in from the nearby university so I had to develop this other system.

Thanks for the memories

[StrongBad]

Maybe it's because I'm fairly young (25)...

...but the image of a bunch of people swilling beer and talking politics passionately with one another just sounds so romantic.

Nobody, at least in my parts, does that anymore. The standard fare of conversation is usually superficial b.s.

You made me nostalgic for something I've never known!

[Cleita]

32. It's great especially during happy hour.

Then people have had enough to drink to loosen up but not so much that they couldn't talk and think lucidly. It also helps to have educated customers. Since my watering hole was near a university, I had no lack of brainy discussers. Of course you need a few freeper type "morans" too to make it interesting. The brainy customers usually either converted them or put them in their place. I also found out back then before the days of the internet and email that liberals were all much smarter than the conservatives. Yes, I had MBA Republican business types in the fray too. (They were the ones always in danger of getting beaten up.) But they really weren't very smart except about whatever narrow field they were in.

[Cyrano]

33. Dear StrongBad: I hear you and I implore your to not feel that you've missed anything.

I'm not talking about the politics part, I'm talking about the brawling part.

Brawls are conflicts out of old movies that are started by morons (like me).

But whether you really want to swill booze and talk politics is up to you. Not the booze swilling part, but the talking about politics part. It's up to you to start the conversation. You'd be surprised how many are willing to join in -- both for and against whatever you say. You will make allies and enemies, but you will have exercised your absolute right to express your opinions.

The worst that can happen is that you'll get a broken nose. The best that can happen is that you'll end up as a leader of of those who believe in human rights and freedom.

(And what I just said about the worst that can happen could be a lie. There are millions who believe that John Kennedy, Martin Luther King, and Bobby Kennedy were assassinated because of their beliefs and because they had the power to act on those beliefs. However, at this point in your life, you are not a threat to the powers that be, so speak out loudly, clearly and proudly. If or when you become noticed, the decision of whether or not to go forward will be yours.)

[rzemanfl]

21. Didn't you have the right, under Florida law, to kill him at that

point? He should count himself lucky.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

22. I advocate for non-violence as well.

I am also a black belt.

I don't find any inconsistency in that. I don't think there is any nobility in being a victim.

[noiretextatique]

23. moron or an asshole

:rofl: that pretty much sums it up. my dad always told me: don't write a check with your mouth that your ass can't cash. and i bet that guy wishes he had kept his mouth closed.
i hope you're feeling better :hi:

[MisterHowdy]

49. I don't like violence.

just hearing about it gives me anxiety.

[Red Zelda]

24. Bust 'em up, friend!

Bust 'em up and make 'em bleeeeeed.

[fenriswolf]

25. only thing nonviolence will do

will allow people who do believe in it will walk all over you.

[StrongBad]

26. Sounds like you weren't looking for a physical fight

If he came at you and you were just defending yourself why all the guilt?? What you did was instinctual and you shouldn't be dwelling on it.

Congrats on standing up for yourself!

[AtomicKitten]

27. crackin' heads for democracy

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cyrano]

36. Sorry FyurFly, I'm not "another Internet tough guy." I don't believe I've been in a

physical fight in more than 25 years. What I related is what it is.

But I do find your depiction of me, not only inaccurate, but the statement of a totally ignorant person who lacks the ability to grasp the written word.

There is nothing in my post that depicts me as a "tough guy." And I find your comment insulting, uninformed, and juvenile. And if you want to do anything about it, I'll meet you behind the schoolyard after three.

[stop the bleeding]

40. ROTFL - "after three"

:toast:

[KAZ]

43. You're being way too polite to this keyboarder. But you're a

class act. Nice post.

[mitchtv]

45. Only a moron or an asshole

would say that to you. Sorry you had to defend yourself; Happy the idiot got 86'd

[immoderate]

31. At least you yelled the truth.

No need to fight.

--IMM

[Cyrano]

41. Sorry to disagree, IMModerate. Stuff happens. And so does violence.

We're not talking about needs here. We're talking about emotions and reality.

By nature, I am non-violent. And although I despise physical confrontation and try to avoid it, it is sometimes impossible to escape. Most humans, men especially, occasionally come face-to-face with the threat of it. And we have the same choices that every living species on planet earth has always faced -- fight or run. Men who have lived in every century gone by will never admit to it, but most have done both in their lives.

Most human beings on this planet have never hit anyone. Yet, to think they're incapable of it is incredibly naive. There are times when you have to stand up for your beliefs and there are occasions where violence is unavoidable.

Your "No need to fight" sentiment is admirable. Yet, in the world in which we currently live, it is unrealistic.

[immoderate]

64. I'd never say never.

Most violence can be avoided.

Anyway, I'm glad you won.

--IMM

[yellerpup]

35. Don't feel any worse than you already do about it.

Sounds like you were just defending yourself. Sorry about the split lip, though. You are allowed to say anything you want anywhere in America (at least theoretically). That's what those kids in Iraq are fighting for, after all.

[backscatter712]

37. Time to ask something really controversial:

Why are low level fisticuffs so tabooed in society today?

Obviously, we don't want lethal force used - the war in Iraq shows that graphically every single day.

But you know what, if people are having an argument, and they're pissed off, and need to blow off some steam, and it's a relatively fair fight, why not let them slug it out?

As long as the injuries are kept down to bumps, bruises, low-level cuts, maybe an occasional black eye, broken nose or lost tooth, they'll heal. What's the harm? (aside from the transitory physical injuries.)

[Fly by night]

38. Way to go, Cyrano. We need to punch more of those loud-mouthed mo-fos into last week.

I am also not aggressive by nature. But I am getting tired of being run off the road (three times in the last day) by speeding SUVs with "W" stickers on the windshield. We have a real epidemic of self-righteous, dangerous ass-holes in Williamson County, TN and I would love to introduce several of them to the sleep inducer I carry around on the end of my right arm.

I do sincerely hope you broke the clown's nose. Just sorry you didn't get a few more pokes at him.

Now, where was I? Oh yeah....ommmm, ommmm,ommmm.

[DIKB]

39. I consider myself a Pacifist

however being anti-war doesn't mean that I condemn your actions. There have been many times I've been tempted to strike out in anger at these ignorant little brown-shirts.

I would rather see 50 bar fights over politics than see a single bar brawl over professional sports.

[lpbk2713]

42. Palm Beach County???

Please, please, tell me it was this asshole you poked in the snotlocker.

[Dave From Canada]

44. So, you're kind of a hypocrite. Seems like everyone is these days.

[Cyrano]

48. Please read my post #41 above.

At one point or another, every human being on this planet is guilty of hypocrisy. Perhaps you would like to tell us about yours.

[deutsey]

58. No, it's much easier to cast asperagus, as the Freepers would say.

Because of this poster's cutting barb, you're so screwn.

:evilgrin:

[Dave From Canada]

68. You're no different then Larry Craig or David Vitter. They preach one thing, then do

another. As do you. Sorry, but you're a hypocrite.

[followthemoney]

73. Don't call people hypocrits.

Don't you know you are hurting their feelings?

It is best that people who hurt other people's feelings learn to be polite.

[orleans]

52. .

[MagickMuffin]

46. Cyrano, don't beat yourself up over this

In a way he answered your question, he IS a Moron and an Asshole:evilgrin:

I think the reich-wingers think they can taunt us and not suffer any consequences because they think we'll just let it go. I'm proud you defended yourself from this Moronic Asshole:applause:

I just hope he didn't follow you home.

[HughMoran]

47. I've had the urge to bash a few Republicans recently

If they want to continue to inflame the wounds they have inflicted upon all decent people in this country, they I predict that your fight will be the beginning of many "political" bar fights in this country. Just last week I followed a guy around the market for wearing a Faux news cap. I flipped the bird at him and called him a moron. I don't ever remember a time when political violence was so close to the surface in this country. That ignorant fake-cowboy Bush is completely responsible for the lack of decorum in this country too.

[orleans]

50. MY FAVORITE LINE IN THE WORLD!!

"anyone who doubts it is either a moron or an asshole. Which one are you?"

FUCKING BRILLIANT

here's a kiss to make your cut lip feel better

[Cyrano]

51. Thanks, orleans. What an outstanding goodnight kiss.

[orleans]

53. my pleasure.

;-)

[Redneck Socialist]

54. You're an idiot...

but I laughed at your story. :P So I'm not sure what that makes me.

[SammyWinstonJack]

55. Good for you!

:yourock:

[John Kerry VonErich]

57. Bar Room Brawls are extreme

You got weapons abound. Sorry, I'm a wrestling fan.

Being a former bartender, I have seen fight much more dangerous, and take a much much more longer time to break it up. To put it bluntly, it became UFC. What use to be a slugfest, became choke outs. Like for example, a guy connects with a swing, then slugging each other a few seconds until it becomes a grapple and a guy get a rear naked choke on the guy and it is virtually impossible to break, even with 3 huge bouncers trying to break it up. So we invested a tazer, so now it is stopped fairly quickly. And in my old bar, we have to break up fights outside the establishment (within 1 block according to city ordinance) otherwise we still get in trouble. We were very fortunate that no one ever got killed. I do believe in "if it feels good, do it" motto, but be careful of the consequences.

[JNelson6563]

60. Don't be ashamed.

Sometimes these things happen. When there is such an occurence then, IMO, the way to feel is grateful you are capable of handling it.

What this incident really reveals is not so much about you or the guy you brawled with, it's about what has been done to this country in the way of divisiveness. We are a house divided, how long will we remain standing?

Julie

[klyon]

62. I'm sure you didn't change his mind or convince anyone else

If he took a swing at you you should have called the police and had him arrested then sued him if he made contact. Yes, you should not be provoked into stooping to his level. He is clearly a moron and an asshole. You hurt our cause be engaging in violence. Violence is not the answer.

Hope your mouth is OK.

[screembloodymurder]

63. Where I live, I'd be in jail.

It wouldn't matter who started it.

[Marr]

65. I wouldn't feel the least bit guilty, but then I'm not a pacifist.

If you're a pacifist, and not just an advocate of non-violence, I suppose you have something to be ashamed of. However, I think a lot of conservatives are under the impression that everyone on the left is a pacifist, and that they can provoke liberals as much as they like without ever suffering consequences. Thankfully that's something you can fix with your hands, and I thank you for fixing that poor fellow.

[WritersBlock]

66. "I'm not ready to make nice."

I don't condone violence either, but good for you. Yeah, it's a contradictory sentiment, but good for you anyway. "Democrat" doesn't have to be synonymous with "wuss."

[baby_mouse]

67. Excellent.

These people need a lesson in manners.

[Cha]

69. Yeah, violence isn't the answer but

it happened and had been brewing for years with lots of Layers so please don't beat yourself up over it!

It's over and it is what it is. The sad thing is there are people out there who don't know bushits stole the election..I feel sorry for their lack of comprehension at such an adult stage in life.

[followthemoney]

71. It happens to the best of us. Surrender to a bully emboldens them.

I got into plenty of fights both in and out of the military.

To kick a Republican bully's ass is to fight for freedom. Who could be against that?

The "troops" didn’t all like me and I didn’t like all of them. I even broke a skull and an arm of a troop because he picked on me for being against the war. I’m an ass kicking pacifist. Tell me that doesn’t make sense but don’t get in my face or punch me cause I’ll pacify you.

[Buns_of_Fire]

75. I do not condone the use of fisticuffs in such a circumstance.

But hitting them in the head with a beer bottle...

Now, THAT'S Entertainment! :evilgrin:

[radfringe]

76. did you ever find out which one he was?

moron or asshole?