Ken Burns New PBS Documentary - Are you Watching it?

[illinoisprogressive]

I am a history buff and ever since 1990 when Ken Burns came out with the Powerhouse of all documentaries, The Civil War, I have loved his stuff.
Baseball, Jazz, ect.
This Sunday begins one of his epic documentaries, The War.
It is about WWII. I am excited and have it circled on my calandar and my 2 PBS stations that I get. the Madison PBS and the chicago PBS. For 2 hours I will be glued to the television.
My question is: anyone here going to watch it besides me???

[AlCzervik]

1. i am for sure.

[ralphmich3]

9. Hasn't WWII been pretty well covered...

Too bad Burns couldn't tackle a more controversial/interesting,less well understood subject.... I guess that is asking far too much of American film makers...

[AlCzervik]

11. yes ralph, i'll pass that along to Ken, i'm sure he'll appreciate the constructive criticisms.

[ralphmich3]

17. Remind him about Speilberg and Lean

and countless, and I mean countless, other WWII films.

I suggest, as well, that Burns stick with war documentaries, Americans really get into war documentaries, especially the ones we win!!!

(as you can tell, I couldn't be bothered with this, unless Burns has something interesting to say about WWII that hasn't already been said.)

[AlCzervik]

18. right away Ralph, right away.

[ralphmich3]

27. No!! He is far too important......to be bothered

and there are a lot of wars to make documentaries about...

Korea, Lebanon, Iran-Iraq war, Soviet-Afghan war, Cambodia-Laos-Vietnam War post U.S. involvement....

BTW: Have Ken's people get in touch with my people if he needs ANY help...



Have fun with WWII!!!

[Raskolnik]

84. I'm not sure of your point on this thread.

If Burns doesn't document all wars, he shouldn't document WWII?

Kids don't know enough about world events, so Burns shouldn't bother?

Help me out here?

[Canuckistanian]

79. I'm sure there were countless films made about the Civil War

Any film I ever saw about the Civil War was idealized beyond reality.

But Ken Burns brought it alive by using only actual people's words during the conflict.

It wasn't just about the war. It was the times they lived in. Their attitudes, their lifestyles, their music.

That's why Burns' versions are so fascinating to me.

[Faygo Kid]

21. He tackled it because young people think we and the Germans fought the Russians.

Do you really think that history is well understood? Not. Google the reasons Ken Burns did this film. Then watch it. I will tape it (primitive but effective). Cheap shot at the end there about American filmmakers, don't you think? You don't think this is interesting?

I think most people could use some reminding about what a real war is all about.

[ralphmich3]

28. Kids won't watch/ don't care

they don't even care about the wars today in Iraq and Afghanistan (and elsewhere), why should they care about a big war, a long time ago...

[Faygo Kid]

29. Well, that's certainly an excellent reason to not make the film.

Guess we better give up on any remembrance of our history, then. That Declaration of Independence or Lincoln's Second Inaugural are best forgotten, too.

I am sure there will be other things for you to watch, or to not watch at all. Why the axe to grind about this film?

[ralphmich3]

31. What is the larger purpose? Another War....another time..

I frankly don't see the point of another long, exhaustive documentary (perhaps nostalgic even, as the Southerners seemed to be to remember the war between the states).

If the movie does not make an attempt to apply this history to today's problems/conflicts and does not make a general moral statement about the war or some kind of analysis - beyond the battles, the technology, the statistics etc..., I don't see it being of much use or importance.

( In some sense, the Civil War series, failed to do this. The Southerners - in the red states/former slave states - are now crowing that they may have lost the war but won the peace. Very sad, indeed for the country - but we shan't talk about that, too controversial etc...)

[dflprincess]

37. As I understand it, this documentary spends a fair amount of time

exploring the homefront. Burns looks at 4 communities in the U.S. and how the war affected them. One of them is Luverne, MN a small town in the western part of the state. They just had a big event to premier the town's section of the film that Burns attended. Even though he started this project before the war in Iraq began, Burns did say in a local interview (he's probably said it elsewhere as well) that one thing that strikes him is how WWII affected everyone personally, while Iraq affects relatively few people's lives, so by coincidence, there is something of a moral statement in that regard.

I believe the film is mainly an oral history Burns said, "There are no Shelby Footes in this film." He does use Tom Hanks to read the articles and editorials written by the late editor of the Lurverne newspaper - articles that Burns feels are treasures.

It sounds to me that this will be more along the lines of Studs Terkel's "The Good War". We'll get the perspective of the "ordinary" people who lived through it.

[ralphmich3]

38. The "Celebration" and glorification of War.....

That is my ax on this film. In my state and city, they are already glorifying the awful war in Iraq the best way they know how. E.G. the state now has proclaimed September 11th "Heros Day". I think the original purpose was to honor civilians - firemen, policemen, emergency folks and bystanders who helped - but it ended up another celebration of the military and the war in Iraq...

I am beginning to think the military industrial complex has arrived and has its hands on the levers of power...

[TwilightGardener]

46. I don't believe for a second that Burns aims to glorify war--

he is examining it through the perspectives of the grunts who got their asses shot at and contracted jungle rot and dysentery, and the wives who bore their babies without their husbands around and worked in factories. That is not glorification or celebration of war--it's reality. It's very important to chronicle their experiences and teach it to later generations, and I'm grateful that Burns does it so well.

[misanthrope]

56. It doesn't glorify it all...

...it shows the terror and horror of it very plainly.

The only thing it glorifies are the sacrifices willingly made by most all Americans in various ways during WWII, something Burns thinks we all need to ponder for a while.

[barb162]

51. Kids won't watch? Maybe that's because of their dummy parents

The parents should be telling them to get off the ipods and cellphones for a few hours.

[Roxy66]

65. It will be used in teaching History in Junior High and High School

The film will be a great teaching tool.

[bdamomma]

88. they should care cause history does repeat itself.

[ima_sinnic]

68. self delete

never mind

[JitterbugPerfume]

86. it takes space and time

to get a proper perspective on such an important event. Burns interviewed people who were personally involved in the war, no armchair warriors.

[redwitch]

2. me.

wouldn't miss it!

[tammywammy]

3. Yes, I've been looking forward to it

I'll even old school tape it too. :)

[jackster]

4. I will

I try to see everything he does

[eleny]

5. Husband and I will be watching

My hubby's father served in WWII and was in the Battle of the Bulge. Got frostbite and spent time in a French hospital for it. So, we have an interest in this doc, especially.

[illinoisprogressive]

7. my mom was a young girl in France when the Nazi's came and my daughter's bday is June 6 - dday.

I love the book, is Paris Burning. the liberation of Paris.
I cannot wait for that part. A

[snappyturtle]

6. Wouldn't miss it! nt

[TomInTib]

8. I wonder if either of our PBS stations will carry it.

Believe it or not, the PBS stations in San Francisco are terrible.

[illinoisprogressive]

10. go to the pbs site and look under your stations schedule.

[bluestateguy]

12. Ah, KQED!

Channel 9 back in my day.

I remember as a boy how angry I would get when Sesame Street and the Electric Company were interrupted mid-show for some stupid fund-raising drive. Some bun-haired, librarian looking woman would interrupt my shows and ask the children to "get their mommies and daddies" for a few minutes. Ugh! That made me mad.

[Texifornia]

20. Doesn't that Bob Sagget guy...

work there?

[samplegirl]

13. I watched the interview of Ken Burns on

Stewart show. He seemed to be just brilliant so I image the filming of this will be extraordinary.

[bbinacan]

14. Thanks for the reminder!

I wonder if it's in HD.

[asjr]

15. I will not miss it.

[Kceres]

16. Not only am I going to watch it...

I'm going to PAY my two sons,10 & 14, to watch, too. At best it will give them an honest account of war which they desperately need, and at worse it will be a great history lesson.

[Bigmack]

19. I'm hesitant...

I love Burns' stuff. I watched Civil War and was really moved.

It's just that war is too damned real for me right now. The nightmares are back bigtime, and watching all those guys who were young then and oldfarts now, kinda like us Vietvets... I dunno.

I'm really tired of us having to deal with the whole war thing.... the waste of good people their futures, and the wholesale pissing away of huge sums of money better spent on making a better country. I don't mean bored/tired, I mean exhausted/depressed/tired. I watched the HBO/Gandolfini program "Alive Day", and couldn't stop crying.

I'm glad Burns did this.... we need to document the whole generation and its war.

I wish nobody had the material to do documentaries about wars, but while people like Cheney and Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz control countries......

Shit!

[musette_sf]

22. yes

one of the 4 cities where he did his interviews is Waterbury CT, city of my birth and early years.

i'm interested in the war subject matter - hope it's like Studs Terkel's "The Good War". but also hope to see 40s footage from Waterbury.

[Faygo Kid]

23. Yes, absolutely. My family was deeply affected.

Long story, but this is my heritage in many ways - and we risk losing our history by thinking it's too familiar.

Also, don't forget to read, from the great "Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" by William Shirer to "Explaining Hitler" by Ron Rosenbaum (no disrespect intended to the Pacific War).

[illinoisprogressive]

25. I read rise and fall years ago. have you read Shirers other books

I loved Berlin Diary and of course, Nightmare years.

[Faygo Kid]

26. Yep. Bill Shirer was a truly great journalist.

A homophobe, but a man of his times - with a conscience and a spine. Hard to find 'em in quantity nowadays.

[alfredo]

24. I will and so will my friends on my vets list. WWII has been covered, but

not by Ken Burns. He has a different way of seeing things and a different way of telling the story.

[TwilightGardener]

30. Yep--can't wait. I luvs me some Ken Burns. I think he is a national treasure.

[BlueIris]

32. But of course. Thanks for reminding people, so I don't have to.

:-)

[Postman]

33. Why does he feed the flag worshiping establishment?

It's all America worshiping pabulum. World War II? What don't we already know about WWII that he is going to inform us about?

Will he cover the US Industrial/Corporate establishments pre-war connections to fascism and Nazi Germany? Will he tell us about Prescott Bush and his dealings with the fascists? How about the Rockefeller and Ford connections? How about the internal controversy regarding dropping the A-Bomb, or will that be presented as the always false reason that we needed to drop it to save American lives?...

No...we'll get more Rosie The Riveter stories and

Why not make a documentary relating "history" the way a Howard Zinn would present it? Some one might actually find history interesting and relevant to the present and make connections...can't have that...

[Breeze54]

42. Exactly!

argh! :crazy:

Burns needs to find a new subject, IMHO!

[TwilightGardener]

47. Why does Burns have to have a political bent or agenda to satisfy you? He's

letting ordinary folks tell their stories before they pass away and they're lost forever. I am always up for another review of WW2, and I don't need to be fed a particular angle or watch Burns dabble in investigative journalism. Just want to see people like me, who lived in extraordinary times.

[Thothmes]

76. Will he tell us

Bet he doesn't cover the fact that ford built factories in the Soviet Union. Bet he doest cover the interment of 150,000 American citizens without benefit of trial, Bet he doesn't cover the assination of foreign military official. Yep, bet he doesn't cover the whole story.

[La Coliniere]

82. Won't tell the story of

IBM's involvement with the Holocaust either.
I'm sick of 'warnography', even the soft core variety, of which this show probably is. My dad, who was an infantry gunman on Guam during the war, always claimed that, as much as he hated the Japanese he was unable to shoot not a one as they came screaming and burning out of caves that had just been scoured by US flame throwers. He said that he shot at rocks instead. That is the central image I will always possess of WW II. Thanks dad, I miss you.

[Breeze54]

34. I'm sick of Burns' WWII documentaries...

that's ALL PBS ever shows anymore!!! :argh:

WWII "The Greatest Generation" is getting old too!!

Yeah, it was a great feat but not the only war.

I'll probably watch when there is nothing else to watch and it's 3:30 AM and I can't sleep.

[Postman]

36. "The Greatest Generation"

such nonsense.

[qdemn7]

45. Considering

They went through a Depression and then a two front war, yeah they're pretty fucking great.

[Postman]

77. Oh I see, Only Americans have something called "the greatest generation"

The Russians weren't that great. They only lost 72 million people and their Army wasn't needed to defeat fascism because the US Army - 'The Greatest Generation" -could have done it themselves.

The British weren't that great either. I mean anyone can suffer whole cities being bombed into rubble.

[Raskolnik]

83. Who said that?

I don't think recognizing the incredible achievements of that generation of Americans takes anything away from also recognizing the appalling costs of WWII to other nations.

And you may want to recheck your figures about Soviet deaths. They probably lost about 27 million, not 72 million.

[slackmaster]

87. The first installment of The War made it quite clear that the US did not take the biggest hits

It explicitly mentioned the major participants' death tolls, and the war's effects on civilian populations (i.e. the USA's wasn't directly affected at all.)

[Kceres]

48. I believe this is Burns first WWII documentary?

[illinoisprogressive]

35. Burns feeds nothing. He presents good docs and has only done one other

big one. civil war. he shows that war is hell.

[Postman]

39. Like we didn't know "war is hell"...

thanks Ken.

You'll notice his "The Civil War" pushed the false claim that the Emancipation Proclamation freed all the slaves, which it did not.

[sendero]

40. The last necessary and good..

... war America has fought. But that hasn't stopped the warmongers from finding poor substitutes.

I have to admit though, I bristle at the "greatest generation" talk. Any generation would rise up against a Hitler, excuse us if we don't feel the same way about Korea, Grenada or Iraq.

[misanthrope]

57. Burns eschews the "good war" title...

...saying that no war is "good." He calls it a "necessary war."

[sendero]

59. Thanks..

.... for clarifying. I wasn't referring to Burns in particular, who by all accounts makes really even-handed documentaries, but to numerous other authors and revisionists who get under my skin :)

[MilesColtrane]

41. I'm looking forward to watching it...

as long as Wynton Marsalis and Stanley Crouch aren't prominently featured.

Burns was interviewed on Lehrer and he made the point that this doc was about telling the intimate stories of the vets who lived this horror.

I think he intends it to be a balance to the whole "Greatest Generation" paradigm that is out there. While the reasons for going to war were righteous, and those who fought against Hitler and Japanese imperialism were noble, it was still the greatest slaughter in human history.

[ksilvas]

43. Nothing against Burns and his style but,

We would have all been better served with an in depth
documentary on the Spanish American War.
Especially the Philippine campaign.
To be more contemporary and relevant.

[qdemn7]

44. Looking forward to it..

Got one of my Tivos already set to record at Best Quality.

[Gloria]

49. Olbermann interviewed Burns, who made some very negative

comments about Iraq. He seemed downright angry about it.

One of his points was that the WWII era folks knew what they were sacrificing for, whereas he questions what the point of the Iraq war is and whether any soldiers know what they are sacrificing for.

[Junkdrawer]

64. Self Delete - posted wrong spot

[SoCalDem]

67. He's pissed about the inequity of the sacrifice..

During th "big one" EVERYBODY sacrificed.. It was :our war" because we MADE it our war..

Since the draft was eliminated ( and actually during it, after the rich kids figured out ways to get out of serving), the "volunteer military" has sanitized warfare, so that the populace can divorce itself from the ugliness of it all.. They can just write it all off as "a chioce that some people made"..

It's very similar to the argument made in right-to work for free states.. they don't want to join the unions, but they DO want the same benefits and wages that union people earned for them..

[PDenton]

71. I don't know if that's true

My grandfather is somewhat of an anti-semite and yet fought in WWII and got several medals. He actually admired the Germans somewhat. Why he was fighting? He lost his farm because the guy that ran the draft board was also a banker and wanted the land, that's the story anyways, and is probably the root of his anti-semitic feelings. He was drafted so ultimately his country asked him to fight, too. Lest anybody think it was an easy war, my grandfather's second wife (who died a few years ago from terrible cancer), revealed to me that he still had nightmares and would mutter in his sleep and shout to dead soldiers.

[barb162]

50. I can't wait to see it!

I'll probably watch it multiple times if it is anywhere near as good as his "Civil War" series.

[EFerrari]

52. I enjoyed his work until it was pointed out to me that Burns

lives in a world without Latinos. Seriously. He erased us from the jazz documentary (and I take umbrage on behalf of my great, working sax guy brother) and then, in this new one. That's just wierd. :wtf:

[bullwinkle428]

53. Is he going into lots of detail regarding the German bombing of Pearl Harbor?

:hide:

[neverforget]

54. And our subsequent attack on Mexico?

:silly:

[misanthrope]

55. I interviewed Burns a couple of weeks ago...

...Our town is one of the four featured in The War and he was here in early September to give a special preview of it. I was pretty stoked about meeting him. Nice guy.

The documentary looks good, like everything he does.

[BrotherBuzz]

58. Cool, did your interview get published?

Curious, I am. Care to share?

[Faygo Kid]

60. Yes, please post your interview here on DU.

Or at least a link to it.

[misanthrope]

72. Sure...

...It's not presented as a straightforward Q&A type piece because everyone in town was taking that approach. I worked answers from him and reflections of the preview into a column

[Roxy66]

61. I'm watching...

I'm going to DVR it and I need to call my mom, who is a WWII buff, and make sure she knows it will be on Sunday.

[ThomWV]

62. Thank you! I just set the autotune for tomorrow night.

[robcon]

63. Can't wait.

His Civil War epic was the best television I ever saw.

[Junkdrawer]

66. I wonder if he'll point out how the Federal Reserve and the Bank of England...

funded Hitler's rise to power in a bid to counter the Soviet Union?

[Lost4words]

69. No, Unlike Ken Burns, I know there are more than white people in the world.

8643

[bluestateguy]

73. That's just crap

If you watch, the Civil War and Baseball, you'll see that the contributions of blacks are taken very seriously. He never papered over slavery and the role of black soldiers in the war and in Baseball, race is a persistent theme. The Negro Leagues are covered very well, and several black expert commentators are used.

[misanthrope]

74. So what about...

...the black vets in the documentary who talk about Jim Crow? Or the race riots in Mobile that are discussed in the film? Are all those participants white?

I'm guessing you haven't heard of "JAZZ" since the vast majority of folks in that 20-hour Burns film were people of color.

[tammywammy]

75. Some people don't care about facts

[slackmaster]

81. Instead of acting bigoted, why not watch the first episode and see?

:shrug:

You're willing to deny yourself the possible enjoyment and educational value of a new film by one of the best living documentary filmmakers because of a mistake that he's acknowledged and apologized for?

[rasputin1952]

70. I am going to watch it, there are always new things to learn

and insights that have been overlooked during every war.

One of the greatest things about the recent outpouring of the war stories of that period, is that many of the General/Admiral stories have been left by the wayside. The privates and NCO's win wars and luck as well as being able to take advantage of a situation have more to do with winning than all of the plans ever drawn up.

Studs Terkel wrote a wonderful book, The Last Good War, that showed the GI's POV through interviews and stories. Men riding to the front in trucks, not knowing if they'd see the next dawn, joking about leadership, politics and bad food. Soldiers being sent into harms way, knowing that the plans are flawed and they were on a doomed mission, but going forth believing they could bet the odds, (which they often did). Small, skirmishes, fought w/o acknowledgment, did more to win the war that D-Day style invasions. Terkel did a phenomenal job in showing what the soldiers went through on a day to day basis.

How those on the Home Front faired is just as important as those on the line. The entire population sacrificed so much to achieve victory, sons, daughters, mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters; but it extended far beyond family, it was nationwide, we were a National Family. Until the end of the war, when the racism, sexism and blind foolishness returned. The aftermath of the war brought much of this to a head, and new mores and laws were eventually written and enforced...but it took a long time. In some instances, we are still fighting for equality and freedom.

The war had a great impact on this country and the world...yet many of the old hatreds and divisions persist worldwide. Genocide is not relegated to jews alone, humanity has a long history of such atrocities, and we should never tolerate such horrors.

[bikebloke]

78. Wolrd at War

I wonder if this will be a proper companion piece to the World at War, narrated by Lawrence Olivier. That's probably the best World War II doco out.

[lamp_shade]

80. You betcha...

In fact I'm scheduling a nap for this afternoon in preparation. Anything Burns does is outstanding.

[JitterbugPerfume]

85. I will be watching

and recording it for another viewing . I adore Ken Burns