They are keeping records of your travel in their data base

[ThomWV]

Just as I turned on C-Span's Washington Journal this morning they were reading part of an article that said that the Department of Homeland Security is keeping a data base on all US travelers, where they are going, who they are traveling with, and even what books they are carrying with them. I did not catch which newspaper it came from (though it may have the the Washington Post) but its obviously part of a total information collection system of every American.

They are capturing everything about each of us, putting it all together, and if you don't think they are mining that data for their own purposes you're nuts.

People, we are so much closer to Orwell's 1984 than anyone seems to understand and that is way past frightening.

[babylonsister]

1. If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about.

:hide:

[ThomWV]

2. If your beliefs about how our society should operate differ from theirs you have much to fear

Because the day will come when they will use that information to hunt you and I down like Jews in Nazi Germany.

[Oldenuff]

7. Yep

The old "if you have nothing to hide" attitude will get us all enslaved.

We'll fight them over there,so we don't have to fight them here...

and if you believe that.....................whoooooeeee,have we got a governmental plan for you!

[babylonsister]

10. First off, who are 'they'? Do you honestly think the DHS security

at the airports are logging in what books we read? I've never seen anyone running to and fro to a computer to take notes. And have you been in an airport lately? The amount of people is staggering. Our immigration can't even check people through a line efficiently (as has been witnessed by me recently) compared to other countries. They are inefficient. I'm not too worried. Now, if I had a record of dissent (been arrested) against the gov't, I might worry. Col. Ann Wright has written about how 'efficient' our government can be should you cross that line. She has claimed that our beloved gov't can notify other governments if you're headed that way so they can harrass you.

[ima_sinnic]

14. really. at what point does the book I'm carrying get "logged"? (n/t)

[kestrel91316]

21. When you pay for it by credit card, or when you buy it at a store

where you have one of their cute membership cards.

Barnes & Noble is always pushing me to get a card. They must get good $ for the database. Heck they may even give it to the government gratis, as a gesture of patriotism for all I know.

[ThomWV]

16. That is what was reported in the paper - I didn't make it up.

[babylonsister]

17. I know, and I'm not saying you did. I posted the article in this thread

below. I think they might be targeting 'activists'.

[kestrel91316]

22. Anyone who types or utters ONE WORD against them is

on their watch list. Never forget who you are dealing with here.

[Dorian Gray]

28. Exactly....

How the hell would they know what BOOKS I'm taking with me when they've just been carried through without anyone stopping to check them. The X-Ray machine doesn't record and save any information, and even if it did, I don't think that it shows words or TITLES of books.

This sounds like scare tactics.

[acmavm]

4. I agree but for the reason that open defiance is necessary to even begin

to defeat these thugs. If we start to live our lives in a way as to not draw attention from the corrupt bastards they've already won, and no matter what we do we can kiss our lives and our freedoms goodbye.

[rooboy]

5. I love Bernie Ward's response to that answer...

he points out that there are definitely some people on death row right now who've done nothing wrong and have nothing to hide. Do they have anything to worry about?

[babylonsister]

13. Apples and oranges there; death row is a far cry from being a

traveler in an airport.

[rooboy]

3. As far back as 2001/2...

I remember talking to a guy who runs a software company in Australia that develops conference/event management software. They were approached by a US university (George Washington U if I recall correctly) to set up a project where they would provide all of the attendee data for storage and analysis. Funding was going to be provided for it, but I think the project might have been abandoned at the time. I told him all about Poindexter and his TIA program, and that I was suspicous of the motives behind him being approached.

I got quite paranoid when he hired a creepy right wing American as his systems administrator, who told me he was from Texas, and more recently Virginia...had to wonder if he lived anywhere near Langley.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

6. I heard this on the news this morning and not at all shocked. Don't be surprised

if there will be naysayers who ask you to don a tinfoil hat.

[kdmorris]

8. Oh, I have no doubt of that

Every time I fly on business, I figure it's just another row in my database file, showing where I went, probably WHY I went (since it lists my company on the Itinerary, down to what kind of car I drove when I got there. I don't doubt that for a second and, when I spend too much time thinking about it, it scares the living hell out of me. One question I have, though, is:

How do they know what books you are carrying with you? When all my crap goes through the scanner, it's a big blob of shapes, no names or way for them to see the name of the book. And, unless you are forgetful or dumb enough to leave your Blistex in your purse, they don't go through all your stuff to see what books and DVD's you are carrying with you.

[ThomWV]

11. Probably from baggage checks or library records. Do you read subversive literature?

Do you even have an idea what literature might be considered subversive by our home grown fascists? My guess is that if you aren't carrying a Bible then you are on the wrong side of the law.

[kdmorris]

15. Well, I don't when I'm traveling

I take stupid crap like Dean Koontz to read.

I did take "Shut up and Sing" and "V is for Vendetta" (the DVDs) to Chicago once. I was actually REALLY thinking hard about whether that was a wise move. I mean, my company was paying for me to be in Chicago at a certain time and, here I was, with what COULD be consider subversive material. It's pretty stupid that I was afraid even for a minute to take those DVD's with me, but I was. I didn't want to be denied boarding because of it and I couldn't just throw them away if it was demanded because I had rented them at Blockbuster.

In the end, I took them, mainly because I felt like NOT taking them was letting them win somehow.

Yeah, they do keep library records now. Part of the Patriot Act. And they know what we buy from Amazon, too.

Edited to add: The DVD's weren't in my checked baggage and, as far as I can tell, no one ever knew I had them at the airport. My seat mate knew I had them when I was watching them, but she seemed involved in her own movie. So, it may be logged in a government database somewhere that I rented them, but I'm still not sure how they would know that I took them to Chicago.

[DFW]

9. "Enemy of the State" with Will Smith was ten years before its time

Or maybe not.

But even Trevanian's "Shibumi" foresaw exactly this back in 1979.
They will need so many people to act on all the information they have,
either they will drown in their details they have, or there will be
more watchers than watched. East Germany had all kinds of details on all
their citizens, and still went down. They were so busy keeping track of
their people, they lost control of their population.

As it is, I keep expecting a bill from Homeland Insecurity for all the
translation fees they must be incurring reading my books and listening
in on my conversations.

They say in Germany that there are three kinds of doctors.

One is the surgeon, who knows nothing, but can do everything.

Then there is the psychiatrist who knows everything but does nothing.

And the there is the forensic specialist, who knows everything, and could
have done something, but it's always an hour too late.

Our NSA and Homeland Insecurity watchers will end up being a combination of the three,
knowing everything, having the capacity to do everything, but never getting to
it until it's too late. They will never catch any terrrrrists because they are
too busy trying to figure out the importance of what brand of oatmeal I eat.

[RC]

18. I think you are on to something there...

"They will never catch any terrrrrists because they are
too busy trying to figure out the importance of what brand of oatmeal I eat"

However, we must remember They Are in cahoots with the Terrorists. So why would they want to catch any?

[DFW]

29. Ah, shades of Ludlum's "Matarese Circle."

That was foreseen, too (the bit about the corporate world being
well-served by the existence of terrorists, and, indeed, manipulating
them from behind the scenes). You have to wonder if the radical right
is getting their scripts from old best-seller thrillers.

Originality is not exactly their long suit, is it? Even election
manipulation was well laid out by Stalin ("Those who cast the votes
decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything").

It's now our turn to decide if we want to allow them to fool us yet again.

[babylonsister]

12. Now I see where this is coming from:

I just can't fathom how it's happening, unless they're targeting people with records of dissent.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/21/AR2007092102347.html

Collecting of Details on Travelers Documented
U.S. Effort More Extensive Than Previously Known

By Ellen Nakashima
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, September 22, 2007; Page A01

The U.S. government is collecting electronic records on the travel habits of millions of Americans who fly, drive or take cruises abroad, retaining data on the persons with whom they travel or plan to stay, the personal items they carry during their journeys, and even the books that travelers have carried, according to documents obtained by a group of civil liberties advocates and statements by government officials.

The personal travel records are meant to be stored for as long as 15 years, as part of the Department of Homeland Security's effort to assess the security threat posed by all travelers entering the country. Officials say the records, which are analyzed by the department's Automated Targeting System, help border officials distinguish potential terrorists from innocent people entering the country.

But new details about the information being retained suggest that the government is monitoring the personal habits of travelers more closely than it has previously acknowledged. The details were learned when a group of activists requested copies of official records on their own travel. Those records included a description of a book on marijuana that one of them carried and small flashlights bearing the symbol of a marijuana leaf.

The Automated Targeting System has been used to screen passengers since the mid-1990s, but the collection of data for it has been greatly expanded and automated since 2002, according to former DHS officials.

more...

[Oilwellian]

20. I just posted this article

And found this part particularly interesting:

Zakariya Reed, a Toledo firefighter, said in an interview that he has been detained at least seven times at the Michigan border since fall 2006. Twice, he said, he was questioned by border officials about "politically charged" opinion pieces he had published in his local newspaper. The essays were critical of U.S. policy in the Middle East, he said. Once, during a secondary interview, he said, "they had them printed out on the table in front of me."

[kestrel91316]

19. I have been saying this for SIX YEARS:

"........People, we are so much closer to Orwell's 1984 than anyone seems to understand.........."

People still think I'm overreacting......

[Marr]

23. It's the book part that stands out as particularly fascist to me.

I'd sort of assume there was some kind of government record of the places I'd flown, but-- the BOOKS I read? That is so far past the line I don't even know what to say. What is that but ideological profiling?

[monmouth]

24. I have a lovely neighbor, an elderly man with family in Lebanon.

He travels there maybe twice a year, if he has the money he goes more often. Anyway, about six months ago he got a visit, right here in our building, from Homeland Security. Took down the names of his relatives there to verify, checked his passport, etc. He said they were very nice, he showed them framed pics of his family there, he came here in the late 40's and became a successful retailer in New York. He didn't really mind he said, they were very nice and respectful of him. He did tell them he appreciated they had a job to do, blah, blah, blah and they left. The times, they are a changin!!

[monmouth]

25. I have a lovely neighbor, an elderly man with family in Lebanon.

He travels there maybe twice a year, if he has the money he goes more often. Anyway, about six months ago he got a visit, right here in our building, from Homeland Security. Took down the names of his relatives there to verify, checked his passport, etc. He said they were very nice, he showed them framed pics of his family there, he came here in the late 40's and became a successful retailer in New York. He didn't really mind he said, they were very nice and respectful of him. He did tell them he appreciated they had a job to do, blah, blah, blah and they left. The times, they are a changin!!

[tom_paine]

26. They're keeping a lot more info than that. This is just the tip of a very large iceberg.

And I have absolutely no doubt that the ifnormation is being used for nefarious purposes by the Bushies against their opponents.

Yes, we are so very close. All the alarm lights are now blinking red, and I think that, other than the large majority of people who won't see it until they have their own Pastor Neimoller moment, pretty much everyone with the acuity to notice, has already noticed.

The rest, will just have to wait for their Neimoller Moment, so to speak.

"And one day, too late, your principles, if you were ever sensible of them, all rush in upon you. The burden of self deception has grown too heavy, and some minor incident...collapses it all at once, and you see that everything, everything, has changed and changed completely under your nose. The world you live in – your nation, your people – is not the world you were in at all. The forms are all there, all untouched, all reassuring, the houses, the shops, the jobs, the mealtimes, the visits, the concerts, the cinema, the holidays. But the spirit, which you never noticed because you made the lifelong mistake of identifying it with the forms, is changed. Now you live in a world of hate and fear, and the people who hate and fear do not even know it themselves; when everyone is transformed, no one is transformed. Now you live in a system which rules without responsibility even to God."

http://www.thirdreich.net/Thought_They_Were_Free.html

[alfredo]

27. Soon they will know what you piss and shit. They can tell what

drugs people take by what flows down the toilet.

Hmmmm corn and Prozac.