Feds Limit Emergency Care For Undocumented Immigrants

[babylonsister]

U.S. Rule Limits Emergency Care for Immigrants

By SARAH KERSHAW
Published: September 22, 2007

The federal government has told New York State health officials that chemotherapy, which had been covered for illegal immigrants under a government-financed program for emergency medical care, does not qualify for coverage. The decision sets the stage for a battle between the state and federal governments over how medical emergencies are defined.

The change comes amid a fierce national debate on providing medical care to immigrants, with New York State officials and critics saying this latest move is one more indication of the Bush administration’s efforts to exclude the uninsured from public health services.

State officials in New York and other states have found themselves caught in the middle. The New York dispute, focusing on illegal immigrants with cancer — a marginal group of unknown size among the more than 500,000 people living in New York illegally — has become a flash point for health officials and advocates for immigrants in recent weeks.

more...

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/22/washington/22emergency.html?hp

[nannah]

1. working americans are denied access to health care every day

they are turned away from emergency rooms and oncologist's office. doctor's tell patients, don't come back until you can pay for the care. to access government help with medical care, american's must be totally disabled and impoverished. it's nice to consider health care for all, and as a supporter of Universal, single payer Health Care I do, but under the current system the group with the least access to health care are those who work with no health insurance. and when folks who work and have to pay for their own health care see the doctor or go to the hospital they pay almost twice what an insurance company or the federal government pays for the services they receive.

no chemotherapy for illegal immigrants may be sad, but not nearly so sad as no health care for tax paying american citizens.

[EFerrari]

12. That's about the creepiest thing I've ever read on DU. n/t

[midlife_mo_Jo]

20. It does sound creepy, doesn't it?

However, most DU'ers are in favor of the following two things:

1) Universal care
2) Open borders

Can anyone really reconcile both?

I know that if my child had cancer, I'd do anything I could to save him, as would any parent. Given that fairly obvious point, how many more people will be crossing the borders for free health care?

Which other country has an open door policy and universal coverage for it's citizens and anyone who crosses the border?

I'm a realist. I think about such things, and we are not going to get the kind of healthcare we like, if we don't make some hard choices.

You can blast me (the messenger) all you want, but it's just not going to happen without controlling costs in some way.

[EFerrari]

21. What about the cost of screwing up democracy in Latin America?

Are you realist enough to understand why those people are here, in the first place?

[midlife_mo_Jo]

22. Yes, I do

I'm just pointing out the obvious cost.

The facts

1) We are grossly in debt due to the idiot moron's war.

2) We can only tax the wealthy and corporations so much before they move offshore. Yes, that is what has come of this country. The middle class and lower classes can't count on fair taxation any more because those people are just going to move themselves and their companies offshore. As it is, they are certainly moving "work" offshore. You bet we need to raise taxes on the wealthy and corporations, but they will never again pay "their fair share" the way most of us would like them to.

3) Universal health care is going to be expensive considering number two.

4) Most parents would do anything and go anywhere to save their children. I would. That means people would come here if we have an open door policy on healthcare.

It sucks to think about such things, but we can't stick our heads in the sand and pretend they don't exist. How are we going to pay for all of this?

You see, my problem is that I am very realistic and very disillusioned about this country. I think our options and remedies are growing smaller each year as multinational corporations get more powerful. We aren't creating wealth, and what wealth we do have is being sucked up by the privileged elite.

[EFerrari]

23. We agree on many of these points.

I'm afraid, though, that it will be a long time before we're faced with the problem you're posing, unversal health care v. open borders. I don't see any of the "top tier" candidates really addressing NAFTA, either.

Things really are as bad as we think they are for working people. I feel like calling my two sons and apologizing to them. :(

[midlife_mo_Jo]

30. Yes, "things" really are that bad

And with corporatist fascism on the rise, they will only get worse.

[midlife_mo_Jo]

19. It's a tough situation

One of my children spent several weeks in the hospital due to congenital disorder (I dislike like the term defect!), and the bill ended up being $200,000. Thankfully, our insurance paid for everything but $200.00. At the same time, one of the nurses told us that bout one/third to one/fourth of pediatric patients were indigent immigrants, most likely most were undocumented based on how many undocumented live around here.) These little kids got excellent, free care. I can't imagine them not having received that care.

However, at the same time they got free care and my insurance paid for my child's care, there were other patients going bankrupted or denied care altogether, and were sent to a charity hospital. This makes NO SENSE AT ALL. What kind of nation are we living in?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

2. Ah, yes, the Party of Life again says "let 'em die".

Maybe they should be reminded that even those terrible immigrants were once foetuses.

[babylonsister]

3. This story really appalled me. I didn't know I had any more of that

feeling left.:(

[nannah]

4. perhaps you haven't spoken with americans who are denied health care

perhaps you haven't spoken with a leukemia patient whose doctor insisted on cash rather than check before he put in a hickman line;

perhaps you haven't spoken with a single mother with stage 4 lung cancer who was told to find a way to pay for treatment before she returned for care;

perhaps you haven't spoken with a man who, after a heart attack had been ruled out, was told the emergency room would not perform any further dianostic testing for the pain and nausea he was experiencing.

as a social worker who helps americans access health care, i see every day how our health care system denies health care to working adults and their families.

If i was boss of america we would have a fully funded health care system that supplied health care to all in need without discriminating among patients based on their country of origin. I would divert health insurance payments to a medicare/medicaid system which would make those programs flush with money and ready to meet the health care needs of all in this country. already medicare and medicaid deliver most end of life care to people in america; it is time to access the efficient administration of health care dollars represented by medicare and medicaid for all health care needs in america.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

5. I've talked to plenty of people in need of healthcare.

In just as dire straits as you mentioned.

I don't give a rip whether they're "Americans" or not. They're people.

[babylonsister]

6. What makes Americans better or more deserving than anyone else?

I was talking about people and I don't give a fig what their nationality is.

[kestrel91316]

7. I think American citizens who can't afford medical insurance, or who

can't cover their deductible plus co-pay should get first priority on the free medical care.

Only when ALL of them are taken care of should free medical care be available to people who are in the US illegally.

[pampango]

8. Wow. Until somebody does something for me, I say let 'em die.

:-( How is it that we differ from Freepers?

We all deserve health care. No matter who we are and no matter where we're from. And not matter what piece of paper we do or don't have in our pocket.

[kestrel91316]

9. Reread what I said. My point is, I don't want an illegal alien to get

something that I cannot.

I know. It's awful nervy of me to want equal treatment under the law.

[EFerrari]

14. What you are arguing for isn't equal treatment under the law. n/t

[Wcross]

10. 6,602,224,175 (estimated world population)

6,302,224,175 if you excluded American citizens. What if it were more cost effective to buy a round trip ticket to JFK than to administer chemo in your own country?

BTW- American citizenship means a bit more to me than a piece of paper in my pocket.

[pampango]

15. You are a great patriot, if not a great humanitarian.

Your patriotism does surpass my own, at least in your eyes.

My definition of liberalism, however, may differ from yours. The "nobody gets (fill in the blank) unless every American already has it" doesn't fit my view of humanity. I am not inferring that you are xenophobic (despite your concern that 6 billion foreigners are itching to come here to ruin our way of life). I guess my days in the Peace Corps long ago ruined me forever as a patriot and nationalist who values Americans above everyone else.

Being an "American" should mean more than just that we were lucky to be born here and not in the Third World, so that we "deserve" things in life that others can only dream of. I hope that liberals spend their time and effort figuring out ways to improve opportunities for everyone, regardless of which side of an imaginary line some old white guy drew on a map a long time ago they happen to come from, rather than ways to keep other people away from what we have or what we want.

[Wcross]

29. So free care for illegal aliens while Americans go without?

I am not against giving people treatment. I am against giving citizens of other countries here illegally FREE treatment at taxpayers expense while citizens go without.
This is the "Democratic underground", not the "liberal underground". Maybe I am a little bit too conservative for your tastes but I have nothing to be ashamed of. I am against illegal immigration. It forces down wages for the working poor and strains our governments resources. I am for Americans first, particularly for OUR working poor who are sent home to die because they can't afford chemotherapy. If you have a way to pay for all your tax payer funded generosity I would like to hear it. Last time I checked, Medicare & Medicaid were going broke.
Tell me why American tax dollars shouldn't go to Americans? Can I demand that Irish Tax dollars be used to treat Americans? How about if I go up to Canada, will their tax dollars pay for my health care?
BTW- Whats with all the "old white guy" rhetoric? Are you a racist? Do you hate white people for some reason? Should we have remained a colony of England? Whats up with all that?

[pampango]

31. Since I'm an "old white guy", I can talk about old white guys and not be a racist.

(Kind of like how some African Americans using the "n" word and not accused of being racist.)

I don't believe that I said that you should be "ashamed" of anything you said. I understand that you are for Americans first and you have every right to be. I am not sure that that makes you conservative at all. Some of the most liberal posters here never have a kind thing to say about illegal immigrants or legal truck drivers from Mexico. It's among the issues that many DU'ers can agree with sentiments expressed by Freepers, Rush, Tancredo and the Minutemen (though I feel compelled to always point out that we oppose illegal immigrants and legal Mexican truck drivers for "better" reasons than the Freepers).

"(W)hy American tax dollars shouldn't go to Americans?" By and large they do and they should. I'm not sure if you're implying that we should never spend a dollar for anyone who is not an American for any reason. If so, we have to recall all the Peace Corps volunteers and reduce our meager foreign aid spending down to zero. I realize that building walls around American is becoming a liberal concept, so that we can keep our money and jobs in and the foreigners and their products out, but that's not how I view the world. The people out there are more like us than you might imagine.

[midlife_mo_Jo]

32. Of course, they're more like us than some might imagine

I'd crawl on my hands and knees across a continent with my child on my back to save his life.

And the immigrants who come here love their children and would do the same thing.

But how are we going to pay for everything? Do you know how easy it is to cross the border? Please don't tell me we will tax the corporations and ubber wealthy. We can raise taxes somewhat, but the days of them paying their fair share is gone forever. You see patriotism and loyalty means nothing. In fact, I read here quite often that it shouldn't be important. Well, that's how the wealthy feel, too, and they can take their money and their multinational corporations and get the hell out of here.

Yep. We're SCREWED. Hard decisions will have to be made, or we won't get anything that we want.

Wishing will not make it so.

[Rosemary2205]

11. How is chemo an "emergency".

Emergencies involve initial life saving treatment. After that it becomes a long term medical care issue and should not be crowding up emergency rooms.

[tammywammy]

13. That's what I was thinking

:shrug:

[Matariki]

16. I wonder, can I as an American without health insurance get treatment in Canada

or a country in Europe? I know I had to have proof of insurance when living in Europe for a period of time. Like nannah pointed out, Americans are *also* turned away from getting chemotherapy. I am surprised to read that that would even be considered 'emergency care' in the first place. And there does seem to be something wrong if a non-citizen can get free health care that a citizen can't get.

[EFerrari]

18. Both are routinely denied care. This article makes it sound

as though poor put upon American citizens are turned away while those bad undocumented workers are given good medical care. That's fantasy and useful fantasy if you want to give the public a shiny thing to look at.

To answer your question, I just read an account around here about an American whose son had an accident and he was cared for in France for a few dollars. Maybe one of our Canadian DUers can answer specifically about Canada.

I think the American government should at a minimum provide medical care for all displaced workers that come from a country that has been sacked by American corporate interests. Of course, American citizens would get to be in that line. :)

[midlife_mo_Jo]

24. One of my kids lives in Canada

As a legal resident, she gets all health care. As a visitor, I would get emergency healthcare. Canada isn't going to treat 200,000 people from the U.S , just because we're uninsured and need chemotherapy here. Canadian doctors aren't going to treat our heart problems. They do their best to control costs, which is one of the reasons why they have relatively very good healthcare.

We WILL have to make some tough choices when we finally get to the point of national healthcare. Universal healthcare and open borders aren't exactly compatible when trying to control costs . I'm a parent, and I know I would crawl to this country with my child on my back in order to save his life. Millions more would do the same thing. And we won't be able to pay for it.

[EFerrari]

25. At this point, people are crawling to other places, like Canada

and Cuba to get healthcare. Our so called "system" is a death trap.

[midlife_mo_Jo]

26. And just who is getting "free" healthcare in Canada?

Citizens and legal residents. Visitors are getting emergency care only.

And if you go to Cuba, you have to pay for it. Cuba has a thriving medical industry to treat non-citizens FOR MONEY. The taxpayers of Cuba pay for their own citizens, but not for you or me. (Unless of course, you visited with Michael Moore. :hi: :hi: :hi: )

[EFerrari]

27. LOL! That Moore guy, what a troublemaker.

How sad is it that our seniors have to plan bus trips to Canada to buy their meds? And, I wonder how many US citizens go to Mexico for surgery because it's more affordable there?

We're screwn.

[midlife_mo_Jo]

28. Yes, we are. sigh nt

nt

[treestar]

17. Again though we have the issue of hospitals having to document

people - just like employers.

The immigration laws should just be the responsibility of the government to enforce - if the government doesn't enforce it, let the rest of us carry on and not have to worry about who's who. They're people and they're here. Part of it is our lack of will to enforce the laws. It's to the point where there is actually an expectation they won't be enforced.

Besides, does it really hurt us? It probably costs about a day of the war - and the more people doctors see, the more they learn. We need to look a little farther than our noses at stuff like this - is it really causing us that much harm, in comparison to other things?