I am a faithful Christian and it pains me to say this (I'm not being flip)

[jhrobbins]

but I have to agree with a friend of mine who said recently that he hated Republicans and would not have a Republican friend. I do find myself in the hating mode when I think about conservatives (not necessarily Republicans, because I actually like people like Chuck Hagel, etc, et al) and the things that they believe and want for this country. I have asked this question before, but never got a satisfactory answer and that is - are the times that we are living in anomalous or have there been other times when have been so fiercely polarized? This cannot be good for a country - where segments of the population actively and aggressively hate one another. Also, this has only come about for me during the current administration - I didn't hate Reagan or GHW Bush - I didn't like their policies or ideals, but I didn't dislike and fear the men.

[BlooInBloo]

1. I love DUers who like republicans who vote with dubya 90+% of the time.

[YOY]

3. And then act like it's bad to hate neocons as opposed to hating their policies

n/t

[cali]

34. I must confess that I voted for

Jim Jeffords repeatedly even though he did vote with the repukes and even dubya, over 50% of the time. And I've never regretted it.

[Mythsaje]

2. Problem is that they're not really "conservatives."

They're not after "conserving" anything. They're trying to go backwards in time to eras that never really existed and, in so much as they DID exist, weren't very good places to be in the first place.

My wife has chastised me about my distaste for Republicans on more than one occasion. And, yeah, in general, they pretty much suck and suck bad. I can't say "conservative" without putting it in quotes because I think the label is a misdirection, if not an outright lie.

I don't hate them...I just despise them.

[Disturbed]

5. "Conservatives", "Neocons", "Fascists"

These terms are often intermixed. They are not the same.

[Mythsaje]

16. I work with words...and, yeah, I try to be careful about how I use them

and in what context.

I think, as a political party, the Republicans are no longer anything resembling sane. There are some salt-of-the-earth folks who are probably more traditional Republicans, but no one on the national stage of any status is of that variety except for (maybe) Hagel.

Maybe "quasi-fascist" or "proto-fascist" would be a good label, though it would confuse some folks.

And as far as "Neo-con" goes, the fact is that they're not all that ideologically different from their "conservative" brethren...it's their methodology of pursuing their agenda that's different, not the base (wrong) assumptions.

[Warpy]

19. I'm as far left as they come, and I have a few GOP friends

They are kind and generous people. They want the same things I do. I just happen to know they're dead wrong about how to get those things. I know they are wrong because we've had 38 years of conservative rule from both parties. They're just not ready to give up yet.

In general, I treat people the way they treat me. Harangues are not well received, no matter who is making them, so I don't give or receive.

I also know the nasty, greedy, mean spirited conspicuous Christians out there are going to be in for a very rough few years as everything they thought they knew turns out to be false. It's going to be tough on me, too, but I know what's coming and that will help me face it. Besides, I'd much rather see them than be them.

I think that being as limited a man as Stupid seems to be is its own worst punishment. I expect him to have a perplexed post presidential life, wondering why in the world nobody wants him any more.

[Mythsaje]

27. I'm married to someone who's primarily a Libertarian...

But I don't have any GOP friends. Nothing in common, I suppose. My best friend is a LITTLE to the right of me, but still pretty centrist.

[Crazy Dave]

4. The Christan right hates gays...

...and it's the republican politicians (who get voted for by republicans) who pander to them.

[Xipe Totec]

6. Don't hate the spinner, hate the spin? n/t

[goodgd_yall]

7. Sr. Goodgd_yall sez

sometimes it's OK to hate.

[Fovea]

8. Unlike 1850s

when there was as great a degree of polarization, this time it is not regional as much as it is a city/rural-exurban divide.

So when things go to hell, they will be going to hell along the highways of flyover America.
I fully expect to see a 'battle of Gary Indiana' or a 'battle of St. Charles Mo' where red and blue america meet.

they will control most of the refineries, we will control most of the media.
they will control the highways, we will control the airports.

Exceptions will be the southwest that will likely stay red, and the coasts which may be safely blue, with the exception of the San Diego area.
I suspect that by 2020 we will be at least 2, perhaps 3 nations.

And by then perhaps we will be at peace with each other.
I don't expect 2010 to be pretty.

But that is just me, and I am brain damaged.

[PDenton]

14. A civil war will not happen

Because there are liberals and conservatives in every state. It isn't like the Civil War when there was a great deal of regional ideology fuelling the antipathy. My guess is what is going to happpen is that conservativism as we know it is going to go out with a whimper ,and will have to admit defeat on several of their points, before it can be reborn. My guess is the first thing to be axed will be Reagans economic policies, because plenty of Republicans are starting to feel the pain from a country with crumbling infrastructure and human capital. If the Republicans came out as a recycled Christian Democrat, European-style conservative party, they might have a chance. That's just my 2 cents.

[Fovea]

31. If you read my post again

I specifically address the issue of the rural urban divide.
One of the artillery commanders at the battle of Wilson's creek (the second major battle of the civil war)
was from Louisiana, and had a confederate battery raised for him, which he abandoned to volunteer for the Union.

I really can't say what paleo conservatism will do, but Neo and Theo cons are itchin for a fight. Backing down just doesnt seem their style.

I hope you are right. I fear you are not.

[AlCzervik]

9. don't hate the hater?

[monmouth]

10. I remember hearing as a child, "don't mention FDR when we go to so and sos house."...lol

[Thickasabrick]

11. If I had that attitude, I would hate my entire family - and I don't.

Most republicans I know, are only republicans because that's what they have "always" been. They don't read newspapers and only follow Fox News because they are convinced of the great liberal media conspiracy.

The majority are ignorant and dumb. How can you hate someone because they are ignorant and dumb? I'm convinced, the key is to find a way to make people actually pay attention to what is really going on. No sane person, unless they were inherently evil, would vote republican after being informed of the truth. The trick is to inform them but I just don't have a clue as to how to go about it.

I think it is ok to hate Bush and Cheney as I believe they both are inherently evil.

[PDenton]

12. what I find scary that parties encourage hate

Republicans actually cultivate this hatred in their base. The idea that Democrats or liberals are inhuman and godless, like we are some kind of fifth column for another country. It is all bullshit but they sow the seeds of antipathy.

Now, I don't think most Democrats hate Republicans with the same zeal. At least most I know don't. And I don't want to assosciate with people who hate other human beings that much, it is just unhealthy. I look upon Republicans with alot of sadness and disappointment, and maybe apathy.

I really do dislike Republican policies. They are poison pills for the most part, Republicans come up with very few good ideas now days. But even then calling it hate is a bit extreme. Even George Bush, I can't hate him, he's just a tool for forces he can't comprehend, and I doubt he fully grasps how destructive his administrations policies are. When he told that one woman back in 2004 at the town hall meeting that working three jobs was great, he honestly had no clue. I just see a sad little man that's lived his whole life in a silver-spooned bubble, as many wealthy and privileged people do.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

13. The country has been polarized before. During the Revolution and the Civil War.

And, many times in between and since.

We came close to a revolution during the depression, only saved by FDR adopting semi-socialist policies to mollify the poor.

In the '50s and '60s there was the Civil Rights movement that led to assassinations, riots, and the use of the military.

In the '60s and '70s there were more riots, suppression by the police and military, and intimidation by spying on the citizenry.

And, that's just a few examples.

[bobbolink]

15. Yes, it's very painful, and I've said the same thing face-to-face to people.

I'm poor, I'm homeless, and I cannot be friends with people who are voting for the very things that are causing my distress.

NOW.. to be fair, liberals don't give much of a shit about homelessness, either, so it's not fair to blame it all on Rs. I say the same thing to them... if you can't care about me and others like me, then don't expect me to care about your damned war, either.

Just the other day, I said to a woman who has been very supportive and caring of me that I can't be friends with Republicans. She smiled and said she's a Republican (which I had kinda guessed), and I told her that she needed to be aware that the very things she's seeing causing me pain is what she has voted for.

At the same time, she's more caring of me than liberals around here, so go figure.

[Hekate]

17. I feel your pain. We live in Bad Times. Paul Krugman's new book tells how we got here...

You are correct: we have not always been so polarized. This polarization has been a deliberate product of the radical right, who are not conservative but Authoritarian. The radical right in this country, both religious and political, are no more "conservative" than the the "leftist" USSR was "liberal".

Apparently Krugman's "The Conscience of a Liberal" covers some of our sorry recent history in this regard, and I look forward to reading it.

But I do feel your pain. I used to consider myself a Christian, and although the story of how I took a different path is not relevant here I will say this: I have lived my entire life by the principles of tolerance and acceptance of other people's religious beliefs, and it has been with the greatest inner difficulty that I've researched and then begun to name the radical right wing Christian movement in our society for what it is: a socially and politically influential and very dangerous entity.

When I write about them I take great pains to identify the theocratic elements as such, using such terms as Talibornagains, Talibaptists, radical wingnut fudamentalist Evangelicals -- hoping that with sufficient care it will be clear that I understand that the theocrats not only are not all Christians but do not speak for all Christians.

JHR, I believe this: We will live to see better days. We will create them.

Hekate

[rzemanfl]

18. I am not a Christian so I feel no pain when I say I wouldn't piss on

a Republican if they were on fire.

[patrice]

20. I understand. It's horrible, feeling the tug of all of the hate . . .

understanding why it is what it is and, for me, wanting to give into its simplicity, but feeling a responsibility, as a Christian, to walk the walk as best you can.

[Bucky]

21. Hatred is a slow bullet you shoot into your own head.

Stop hating people. It ain't right. Hate what they do. Get angry, get very angry, get pissed off and scream at the bastards. But don't hate humans. That's not what you're here to do.

[Bitwit1234]

22. I do not hate republicans. I hate their policies I hate what they have done

to this country but I do not hate the individual. I do not wish them harm. I would love to see bush and cheney and rove behind bars. But no harm to them.

[DemGa]

23. It's the new fascism American style that's bugging you

...insidious, unrelenting, pervasive, most of all deceptive. It's the same right-wing sickness that has been with us always; but I can't help think this current animal has learned some things from the past.

[qdemn7]

24. I'm 50 yrs old..

And yes the country WAS this polarized in the late 60s. In fact it was WORSE then. We had a despised war. We had riots, cities burning, assassinations, it was a low-grade civil war. The country survived. It survived the Arab Oil Embargoes. It survived Nixon and Watergate. This too shall pass.

Now, IF, very big IF. It does not, then the Second American Revolution or Second American Civil War (take your pick), will make the first look like a picnic. It will not be soldier against soldier, or North against South. It will be the Northeast, West Coast and Great Lakes cities against the rest of the country. WMDs will be used on our own soil by ourselves The USA will cease to exist, it will break up into several smaller countries, and tens of millions of people will probably die.

[xchrom]

26. i was around then too -- and for me this is worse.

and it started getting worse during reagan.

we fired everybody up over money and getting theirs -- and squeezing the middle --and we have progressively alienated people every year since then.

the apathy displayed any more is frightening.

[TankLV]

37. I'm 54 - almost 55 soon and I have to say it's a lot worse...

Then we didn't have to "watch what we say" or think twice about saying or doing something...

Now we have an insideous climate where speech is essentially curtailed.

I never was worried before about what I would say or that anybody would overhear me and do something about it like I am today...

The climate now is very hidden and creepy and there is more of a divide in the general population - old and young alike - red and blue if you will, not just the young against the older like it was then...

[Bluerthanblue]

25. people tend to ignore me- but

i hope you'll read this. ;)

I think i understand what you're feeling. I've struggled with this myself and found it helps is to remember that underneath the labels, is a human being-

I have a hard time referring to 're-pub's etc. and then saying "they all" ____________.

Maybe the most vocal of the group that is dominating that clump called "republicans" are voicing very negative, cruel, selfish platforms. That doesn't mean every member does.
There are attituded and beliefs that i hate- some perspectives- which people use to justify doing things that aren't easily accepted otherwise, ... but to use that to excuse hating a human being.... to hate- to feel such negative emotion for the sum total of another human being, that i would not care if they lived or died,- or to wish them suffering just isn't something that i'm very good at. (-i've done it, but learned that it only increased the harm)

I think if you really look back over history, especially if you have access to any personal accounts, you'll find that the feelings of us being so polarized are ones which have occurred over and over, even in this country.

I'm not young, (especially when you use 'innocence years' as a measure) having lived for half a century i have to say, the arrogant, ugly 'in your face' crude rude attitude seemed to really began to escalate right around the millennium- and got particularly bad with bush's rhetoric after 9/11.
But learning about the McCarthy years, had i lived then, i'd have likely seen the same thing.

The media not only magnifies it, it feeds it. I believe that it is up to each one of us as individuals to remember to not get swept up in mass mentality- to continue to walk the path we know to be one which leads to a better future for ourselves and the world as a whole. One that is not forged on the dead bodies of those we have overpowered, one that does not have to be surrounded by weaponry, to exist- but one where people have what they need- and they know they are part of the "whole"

People don't usually go looking to control, hurt or dominate others when they are not in desperate need, or so satiated that they become bored.

Feelings of being inferior, unworthy, afraid, and angry motivate us to behave in ways we later regret.

I'm hoping that this ugly time in our history is part of the pendulum swing to the extreme- and that maybe one day, we'll shorten the arc.

sorry to drone on-
hope this makes some kind of sense...
:hi:
blu

[mitchum]

28. I am not ignoring you...

your words are very wise.
And they make much sense.

[Bluerthanblue]

35. well

thank you for that.

I wouldn't blame anyone for ingnoring me, i often wish i could ignore myself. (seriously)

i'm glad you heard something of meaning in my jumble.

peace,
blu

[xchrom]

29. from the christian right to neo-cons -- i'm very comfortable with hating them.

it's what they deserve -- and i am not interested in peace or cooperation with them.

why? -- because truly -- when we're not looking -- they will slit our proverbial throats.

no peace.

[daninthemoon]

30. I hate how many people have been led astray by these manipulative

rw neocon zealots preaching their hatred and bigotry and calling it Christianity. Jesus was a liberal and he never hated anyone, to say the least.

[BlackVelvet04]

32. This has been a very difficult time for me as a Christian....

I find myself not just out of step with the Christian community but violently opposed to what they are doing and how they believe.

[Hekate]

38. It may help to keep reminding yourself that this is not the message of Christ...

...and that the right wing nuts, the Talibornagains, do not speak for all Christians, much less for Christ, when they preach hate and oppression.

It's lonely for those who think for themselves, in such times as these.

On another thread today, mention was made of the inclusivity of the Methodists and United Church of Christ, if you are looking for a "new home" in a mainstream Christian church. There's also the Unitarian Universalists, who I like very much, but they are so religiously liberal they are not for everyone.

Hekate

[MedleyMisty]

33. I struggle with "hate the sin but love the sinner"

I know part of it is that I assume they know better when really they don't. So I fault them for things like voting Republican because they hate everyone who isn't a rich white Christian American male and want everyone to suffer horribly when they don't really understand the connection.

And another part of it is that they also assume that I'm like them and that criticism of their beliefs is the same thing as hating them. So it goes like this - "Intolerance is wrong." "Why do you think you're better than everyone else, bitch?" "I don't! It's just that I hate prejudice and it does nothing but cause destruction and pain." "Well, I'm sorry that the rest of us aren't so perfect little Miss High Horse." "What in the hell are you talking about?"

That happens here on DU too. Ever been accused of being a "purist" when you're just talking about your core beliefs?

It's not communication. It's just yelling at each other and misunderstandings. And I don't know how to make it better because it seems to me that the only way to not make them mad and to not make them think that I'm trying to say that I'm better than they are is to say that what they believe and what they do is right and good. And I'm not going to do that. Ever.

In my mind there is a clear separation between the ultimate value of someone's life and their beliefs. If I had to choose between saving the lives of a Republican and a Democrat I'd go for the one that I had the best chance of saving without reference to anything but the fact that they're both alive. All life is equally sacred.

But some ideas and beliefs are demonstrably better than others.

Other people seem to think that they are their beliefs and that if you, say, criticize Christianity, you mean it personally and you're saying that they are a horrible person when you're not thinking of them at all and you're thinking of the effect that Christianity has had on the species as a whole and of the effect that hardcore rightwing Christians are having on the country right now. I mean, yeah, I sort of know how it feels because I'm a relatively poor white person who lives in the South so it's not like I don't know what it's like to have your group bashed. So I usually try to do what I can to make it clear that I'm not talking about every Christian or every Republican or every rich white man or whatever, but sometimes I get all emotional and upset and the words come out quickly and I forget to put in the qualifiers.

And yeah, as much as you divide the person from their beliefs mentally it's hard to do it emotionally. Don't beat yourself up over it. It took me 27 years to learn it, but really the best thing to do is to accept your mistakes and imperfections and all that and just go on and try to do better next time. Hating yourself and mentally and emotionally beating yourself up doesn't help anything and just makes you miserable.

So to sum up - I think that we all tend to interpret what everyone else says through our own little filters and we sometimes see hatred where there is only criticism of a concept. But also it can be pretty hard to separate hatred and disagreement with a concept inside ourselves, so no wonder we misinterpret others. I guess the only thing to do is to try and remember to ask for clarification before going off on someone and try to remember to "hate the sin but love the sinner" even if it is hard sometimes.

[undeterred]

36. I had gave up some Republican friends in 2004

They are neighbors/business owners I used to drop in on. We knew we had differences and we avoided certain subjects. I knew they voted for Bush Cheney and that the guy listened to Rush Limbaugh on the radio. But they were nice people.

Around the election the guy got in my face and told me that everyone in the US had health insurance because we could just go the emegency room. This made me furious because he knew I had gone for almost 3 years without health insurance - and I reminded him that the emergency room was not free. And I recognized it as a Rush talking point. Then he started in on John Kerry's military record and he stood there and told me that George W. Bush was a "patriot" and John Kerry was not. And I said "How can someone who avoided military service when there was a war going on be a patriot? Kerry did two tours. Its obvious you listen to someone who doesn't know what he's talking about." I walked out and never went back in. He broke our unspoken agreement not to talk politics.

I noticed they took their Bush Cheney sticker off the window a while later. I can't imagine it was helping their business.

[jhrobbins]

39. Thank you all for all of these replies - I appreciate the thought put into

them and read each one carefully.