so, my sibling flew for American Airlines on 9/10/01 from LA to Boston

[ourbluenation]

She knew one of the female flight attendants who perished - worked with her many times. My sister could have easily been on that plane since she flew the Boston/LA turn all the time. A job she once rather liked is now awful. it's hard to explain, but she and her coworkers have to maintain a heightened sense of awareness since 9/11. Not because they have to for their job, it's more of a self survival instinct kind of thing. It sucks, but there it is. This past 9/11 she had a guy on her flight who kept playing a tape of the towers falling on his personal dvd player, over and over. She struggled between letting the guy watch whatever "art" he wants on his dvd player, and telling him to knock it off for the downright cruelty to her and the rest of the crew. what a dick.

anyways, for what it's worth, she thought what the gal from MIT did was kind of thoughtless and insensitive to people who work at airports. that young woman knew what she was doing - she had to, which makes it kind of a mean thing to do. what a dick.

[aquart]

1. Yep. Sensitivity of a dead tick.

My heart to your sister. I'm glad she's telling you how she feels. I'm glad you're listening.

[ourbluenation]

thx.

i have another sister who lives near ground zero. that was one f'd up day for both of them that still hurts so much.

[aquart]

14. Yah. I'm 32 blocks away.

I got out a street map and counted.

[ourbluenation]

42. hugs to you

:hug:

[pnwmom]

25. Or how about, the sensitivity of a girl who was only 13 and living

half a world away when Logan airport was involved in 9/11?

[ourbluenation]

29. who's now an adult and no doubt remembers 9-11. whats your point?

[pnwmom]

38. She remembers 9/11 from the perspective of a 13 year old in Hawaii,

not from the perspective of an adult in Boston. My point is that people who were living in Boston through that horrific time -- as my daughter was -- have very different memories and awareness of the danger than a young woman who was a child living half a world away at the time.

[ourbluenation]

45. i dont know...what if she walked into the airport in hawaii? n/t

[cherokeeprogressive]

54. So, you'd obviously agree, that she's a pretty well informed person if she's been accepted to MIT?

Or do they not screen college applicants like they did when I was young? Every question from what have you volunteered for to what do you think of X?

Good for MIT, having such an informed student as her.

[pnwmom]

64. She's well informed on math and science if she's been accepted to MIT.

But the geeks there are not screened for their knowledge of how ignorant the general population is with regard to math and science. She probably had no idea that the rest of us see a little circuit board and a 9 volt battery that lights up a star -- and immediately think: BOMB!

[mrreowwr_kittty]

2. Oh but....

Every person who gets arrested while doing something stupid is a Free Speech Martyr! No matter what impact their actions had on the people around them. You should just know that a woman with a circuit board on her shirt, holding a clay-like substance in her hands, walking through the AIRPORT poses no danger. You should also realize that a young man who bursts into a speech being given by a U.S. Senator and former Presidential candidate, who screams at him and refuses to let him answer his questions, and who flails wildly when he is being escorted away is no threat to anyone there. What's the matter with you? :sarcasm:

[hedgehog]

3. Anybody know where there's a crowded theater?

I have an urge to yell "fire"!

[Catchawave]

40. Just don't yell "I have a bomb" on a plane

My son may be working :evilgrin:

[HCE SuiGeneris]

4. ...

:eyes:

Tasering is necessary when six cops have a man subdued? Please.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

7. I don't agree with the tasering but I think he should have been kicked out.

How do you think it should have been handled?

[HCE SuiGeneris]

12. I think he should have been removed. What bothers me

most is the aura of fear I sense in the agreements with your position.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

18. Then we're in agreement.

And people who were at the event report feeling afraid at him. I know I get frightened when someone starts losing it in my presence. There are far too many people in this country who are armed. If that makes me bothersome to you, I'm sorry.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

21. You are not bothersome to me.

I am troubled by the unrelenting fear that grips our nation as a result of media bombardment propagating terror behind every corner. It causes an abnormal fear-based reaction that I consider unhealthy. It is a result of psychological warfare from our government and media. It causes bodily harm and reactive violence. I abhor it.

[Mind_your_head]

19. Mr. Kerry should have listened to his questions

Mr. Kerry should have responded to the man (even if Mr. Meyers wouldn't have stopped talking).....Mr. Kerry should have just looked/stared at this guy as a nut-job (if in fact he was a nutjob). Either the guy would stop speaking and give Mr. Kerry a chance to respond.....or Mr. Meyer would go on-and-on and everyone would not respect Mr. Meyer for this.

It was all handled very very badly, imo. Mr. Kerry's 'team' and the campus police - who are supposed to be the 'professionals' were very lame. I don't fault Mr. Meyers at all/very much for pointing out this failing/lack of insight of Mr. Kerry (heck, when Mr. Kerry was a war-protesting viet-nam vet, he might very well have done what Mr. Meyers did.....I would think that Mr. Kerry SHOULD (but didn't/doesn't) understand that!

[karynnj]

55. That's not what happened

This was likely a premeditated attempt to get attention and disrupt the Kerry event. The problem is that many here and elsewhere took the Miami Herald article and Meyer's own video as the complete truth. The first video available Monday night was on their site in their very biased story. The video was on Meyer's web site. Meyer was taken to jail, so how did someone edit the video - eliminating the earlier provocations, leaving only an agitated kid asking a question (actually his third question) and put it up on Meyer's website? Then get a major paper, the Herald, to link to it with an article sympathetic to him - down to quotes from a grandmother saying he had never been in trouble.

This was planned. Lefties, who speak of free speech, ignore that he spoke and did not let Senator Kerry answer the question. They say they want these questions asked - and they have been - but you would think they would also liked them answered. It is not clear that Meyer did. Someone posted that they thought he hoped to get an unflattering Kerry response. Kerry did listen to the question - said he had read the book he mentioned and when the first question was done - started to answer, but Meyer screamed over him and proceeded to throw in two more question. The head of the organization then turned off his mike - and he continued to scream out his rant.

It was not Kerry who did not listen - he asked the police to let him ask a question before he did and again when they moved to eject him. It was Meyer who would not be quiet to listen to the answers. How long should the organizer have let him control the event as he insulted the guest speaker. Do you think that was what the other 699 people wanted? You could hear applause when the police started to move him out.

Look at their motivations:
Kerry came there, gave what was reported to be an inspiring thoughtful speech. He then started answering questions - and would have answered Meyers. He started to - but Meyers was still ranting. Kerry was there to speak to and interact with the kids. He has answered those questions before and they do not phase him.

Meyer acted strangely, annoyed the press and the people running the event - and made sure it was captured it all on tape. This was apparently consistent with things he did before. He is a senior in journalism, I learned in a high school journalism class that it is a pretty good idea to be quiet and listen to the answer after you ask a question.

The police - they had a prominent politician who they were providing security for as representatives of the University. Their goal was to get him out as he became a disturbance. They were not out to create a scene.

As to Kerry, the words routinely used to describe him then were polite and well mannered. No, he NEVER was even close to as rude as Meyer. Had he been, he would never have been as important to the anti-war effort as he was. Nor, would he have been able to do things for VVA in 1972, like meeting with Nixon people on problems in the VA hospitals - which he did. Also, in a protest in Lexington, MA, the vets did not have permission to sleep in the park. Kerry and all the vets and many townspeople who joined them all peacefully went with the police when arrested. Kerry advised everyone to be polite and give the police their real names. There are NO pictures from any time of Kerry's life of him resisting arrest.

[cherokeeprogressive]

58. You're exactly right. Your sixth paragraph points out the paradox the police who provided security

had to deal with.

God forbid, but what if they had been passive, and something bad had happened? By bad I mean use your imagination and think of the worst thing that could have transpired due to their passivity.

Act now, and deal with the bad press, or be passive, and have something really terrible happen?

It's as if his supporters think the police/security personnel KNEW who he was and KNEW he was harmless and SHOULD HAVE allowed him to distrupt a large public gathering.

PUH. LEEZE.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

60. Very well said. I wish I could recommend a reply.

Meyer is nothing but an opportunist looking to promote himself. His attention-grubbing antics served no one but HIM. I'm disappointed in Greg Palast for giving him a job, thus rewarding his self-serving behavior.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

62. Yeah!!! Blame Kerry!

Unreal.......do people even try to read the whole story before they post anymore?

[ourbluenation]

6. yeah - crazy me, crazy sister. we should just know intuitively when art

wanders into an airport strapped to a persons body, it's harmless. what IS the matter with me? ;-)

[renie408]

10. I think I love you. n/t

[pnwmom]

24. Once they realized that the device was not a bomb, but simply

a little sign that bore lights in the shape of a star -- for her name, which is STAR -- and once they realized that the "frightening" words "Socket it to me -- Course 6" merely referred to her Electrical engineering major -- they should have dropped the charges.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

26. Fine, they should drop the charges. The OP isn't about that.

It's about people's initial reaction to her.

[ourbluenation]

30. thank you. that's seems to be missed on a few here. n/t

[mrreowwr_kittty]

44. You're welcome

Honestly, I think I'd crap my pants if I were at the airport and saw Star Simpson in her shirt. WTF was she thinking?!?

[ourbluenation]

46. only she can say. but she should know that she probably scared more than a few people.

[pnwmom]

41. The Op was about more than that. The OP accused her of intentionally

being "mean" to people who work at airports.

"Anyways, for what it's worth, she thought what the gal from MIT did was kind of thoughtless and insensitive to people who work at airports. that young woman knew what she was doing - she had to, which makes it kind of a mean thing to do. what a dick."

[ourbluenation]

47. and thoughtless and insensitive. that's correct. dont know if it was intentional.

[pnwmom]

51. You said she knew what she was doing. That would be intentional. n/t

[mrreowwr_kittty]

50. Okay fine. You're assuming that she didn't know what she was doing.

One of you is wrong about that. But it doesn't change my point that the OP is about why people might react the way they did.

[pnwmom]

52. I understand why we're all paranoid in airports now.

But now that we know she wasn't a threat, she didn't make a hoax bomb, or any kind of dangerous device, the charges should be dropped.

[cherokeeprogressive]

57. THAT is where we converge. I agree that once her "art" was exposed for what it was, she should have

been allowed to go about her business.

But please don't tell me you'd fault someone who pointed her out, NOR someone who investigated the complaint and ERRED ON THE SIDE OF SAFETY.

[baldguy]

5. Real threats should draw more attention than non-threats.

Simply because they're more threatening!

An asshole wearing a t-shirt that says "BOOM!" is not a threat - just an asshole.

[renie408]

13. Yes, I think that real threats should wear a large stamp on them that says "REAL"

so that people can easily differentiate real threats from from apparent threats.

T-shirts that say 'BOOM' on them aren't threats...but a circuit board with wires coming out of it might more easily be misconstrued as a problem. (in the interests of full disclosure, I thought it looked like a white chocolate Twix with a 9-volt battery. But I don't work in an airport and I also am not sure what a bomb looks like).

[baldguy]

66. But, they treat the guy in the t-shirt exactly the same way as the guy with 5 lbs of semtex

That's not security - it doesn't keep us safe & it doesn't help catch terrorists. Likewise with making everyone take their shoes off, dispose of all liquids (without defining what "liquid" is), and strip-searching grandmothers & people in wheelchairs. What it DOES do is create an atmosphere of fear and arbitrary intimidation designed BY THE GOVERNMENT keep you and other members of the unimportant, unconnected masses under control.

When you hear about incidents like this - MAKE NO MISTAKE: it has nothing to do with catching terrorists - nothing to do with any notion of "security" at all - and everything to do with forcing you to surrender your freedom.

[treestar]

70. That's true - none of this stuff strikes me as effective in actually

heading off terrorist plots. If 911 could have been headed off, it would not have been from something like this but from more CIA information and using that information better between the CIA, FBI and INS. Having had more Arab translators, etc.

Maybe the hijackers could still have gotten on even with all the new restrictions. And none of them was wearing a circuit board! The idea that a terrorist would be wearing something that attracts attention is ridiculous.

[terisan]

8. I do not see this pin that lights up ones name as a comment on 9/11 attacks.

I had to spend the day of 9/11 trying to get through to family at or near the WTC to see if they were alive. My mentally disabled brother was so petrified he was never able to return to his sheltered workshop.

I sympathize with your sister.

However when a pin that lights up someone's name causes this type of reaction in the country and on DU, there is something very much wrong and it is not with the MIT student.

Scared people can't build or maintain a democratic form of government. When people are scared they put up with sh_t.

It been a short journey from the Boston Tea Party to the Patriot Act. Where's the courage; where's the pride?

I don't know whether or not you are old enough to remember the cold war when we were all petrified of the atom bombs and did duck and cover drills. We lost rights through fear; this is worse. We were cowardly in the 50s but this is worse cowardice.

Instead of standing up to Bush and Cheney and tossing their butts out of office, people have let themselves be cowed. The Iraqis got jackbooted by Hussein and we are being jackbooted now. I am wondering if their present is our future.

[ourbluenation]

9. ya dont know its a pin that lights up until you know its a pin that lights up.

thats all i'm saying. until you know you just "hear" that someone's been removed for wearing a bomb like thingy. what that gal did was insensitive to people who work at airports. and it was just plain ass stupid - she could have been killed.

as for the rest of what happened after that, whatever...it will all get sorted out. both here at the DU and elsewhere.

[terisan]

17. That's what a lot of people said about the Civil Rights marchers in the 1960s

If she got killed would you say it was her fault?

Insensitivity isn't a crime is it?

How about those guys at the Boston Tea Party----a bunch of jerks?

I don't mean to be sarcastic but I am honestly astounded at what you are saying.

[Mind_your_head]

20. I agree with you.

People need to outgrow their own stupidity. Need to know what's a REAL threat and what's not. AND stop thinking in terms of "everything I don't understand" IS A THREAT! ..... b/c it's not!!!!!

[ourbluenation]

35. but you dont knnow until you know, right?

[ourbluenation]

28. I'm not talking about the crime vs non crime discussion. People do things

that hurt others. sometimes they know they are and sometimes they don't. wth is so astounding about saying that?

[pnwmom]

43. But now that they KNOW, they should drop the charges. n/t

[ourbluenation]

48. agreed...and knowing my sister, she probably would agree too. n/t

[pnwmom]

63. Ourbluenation,

I do not want you to go away thinking I don't understand her feelings or care about them. Flying is such a trial these days, flight attendants have a huge challenge.

But I don't think this student meant any harm. I've known many engineering students, including many at MIT, and this young woman seems typical. I think Boston Magazine put it very well:

"The Boston Magazine Blog got busy and did some digging into Simpson's past. It may be debatable whether or not the information proves she is a little nutty or perfectly normal by MIT-genius standards, but our feelings regarding her are changing from "crazy biotch" to "garden-variety geek." Simpson appears to be a classic case of book-smart but not social-smart. Unlike Berdvosky and Stevens of L'Affaire Mooninite, she won't be too comfortable with the media attention this episode has thrust upon her."

http://bostonist.com/2007/09/22/socket_to_me_st.php

[ourbluenation]

72. that was my thought...book smart and street stupid. too bad she didn't stop for a sec

and think about what she was doing. with some reflection, i hope she's saying to herself, "what in the holy hell was I thinking?"

[treestar]

11. How was that gal supposed to know?

She's 19.

A trick I picked up from books on self-esteem: don't always presume the worst of others. Maybe they are just having a bad day, or don't know. If you don't know, presume the best, that is, that this 19 year old didn't get it.

[Nailzberg]

16. Perhaps her 42 year old boyfriend could have told her

Hey, they're both adults, but ewww anyway.

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/regional/general/view.bg?articleid=1033286

[pnwmom]

23. And she was 13 and living in Hawaii when 9/11 happened.

She probably had no idea how Boston reacted.

[Catchawave]

49. Yet she uses a reference to a 60's comedy show "Sock it to me" ?

Interesting.

[treestar]

67. She's seen a show and likes it, she'll remember that detail

Just because you are 19 doesn't mean you don't see reruns. But it likely means you are lacking in overall wisdom and perspective.

[Demit]

15. Surely people who work with the public for any length of time see all sorts of things?

I don't mean to be insensitive, but the public when they're in a public place do not act with forethought to the feelings of the employees of the businesses they are utilizing, and that's a fact you learn pretty quick even if you're just bussing tables part time. As for 'letting' the guy on her flight watch his own dvd player, that he's presumably got in his own lap, are you serious? He might be a weirdo, he might be a documentary maker, he might've lost his best friend at the towers that day—you're walking down the aisle past him, you don't know. Your sister doesn't know either. But she considered forcing him to stop watching his personal dvd player because she thought it was cruel to her as she walked past? Maybe your sister needs to find a job where she isn't working with the public anymore. It would be good for her to get away from the public, and the public won't have to worry about workers looking over their shoulders at what they're watching on their own personal dvd players, and using their authority to tell them they can't.

[ourbluenation]

27. It was freaking out all the people around him - some guy went over to him and forcefully told

him to turn that shit off. and he did. he was an attention-seeking young snot who thought he was being cute.

and you can save your job advice - she's over 40 years old and can make her own decisions about her job.

[Demit]

32. Then perhaps she doesn't need family members trotting out her job problems

for others to comment on in public forums, either. That tends to encourage people to comment, doesn't it?

[ourbluenation]

37. huh? wow. all i'm saying is that there are others to think of in this story....

not just the arresting officers and this woman. there are people who work in airports with long memories of a horrible, horrible day, one of which I'm privileged to call my sister. I thought it was an interesting perspective so suit me.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

56. Funny, I didn't see you posting her name or any identifying information

I have no idea who you or your sister are and I'm glad you shared what you did.

Looks like someone has no argument and is resorting to desperate red herrings at this point.

[Bluebear]

31. 'Maybe your sister needs to find a job where she isn't working with the public' - What nerve.

You'll be glad to know that I *did* quit flying after 9/11, after suffering through a bout of panic attacks and agoraphobia. I could hardly go see F9/11 because I thought Osama was going to drop anthrax on my head.

Silly, yes, but that's how it affected me. I want to assure you that I, nor this sister, anticipated these feelings, and I know personally that I lost a career that paid me pretty well. I don't know this sister's other skills, but to suggest she find another job is a bit cold on your part, no offense.

[ourbluenation]

34. sorry bluebear. so, so sorry. she would love to quit but her circumstances will not allow it

right now. she's been doing this since college and she's now in her forties - a one job resume makes it hard to start over. I think she has 5 more years before she can take the golden handshake and she plans to.

You're not alone - about 1/3 of the people she used to fly with don't anymore. it sucks in so many ways.

[Demit]

36. She's working with the public & is being tempted to misuse her authority because

of her sensitivity. That's not a good thing for her OR the public. When your personal feelings start affecting your work, it's time to rethink what you're doing. It's possible to feel sorry for what someone has gone through and to still have the opinion I expressed.

[ourbluenation]

39. my understanding is that it would have very much been in her authority.

luckily for her she didn't have to deal with him - another passenger took the initiative. Oh and I'm not looking for anyone to pity her, but to just imagine what its like to work in an airport when stuff like this happens. please try.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

53. I used to work out with a flight attendant who felt the same way

She confided in me that she was terrified to get on a plane and was drinking heavily when she was off duty. She eventually returned to work, after a long leave of absence, but it was really hard for her.

And I can't stand when people cavalierly suggest you just get another job like that. That's fine for someone who is 23 years old, but when you have invested several years training and working in a certain field, it's not that simple. Furthermore, it's something that a fuckheaded conservative asswipe would say.

[treestar]

68. Why is it cold to suggest a person get a job compatible with their

natural abilities?

If a person doesn't like one job, they will be suited for another.

[Bluebear]

76. Sorry, playing the twin towers falling on a plane on 9/11 is not acceptable.

My natural abilities would be making everybody else on the plane comfortable whout some nutzoid watching a loop of the towers falling. And I would be correct in this situation.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

61. Give me a break

"The public" has a tendency to be assholes. Ask anyone in retail or the service industry. Stop excusing people for being idiots.

I also love the constant use of the word "authority" as of late. Shame on those jackbooted flight attendants!!! What's next, the kid at the drive-thru window at Burger King gets called a storm trooper if he tells someone to lower their car radio so he can hear them???

[Demit]

65. That's my point. The public has a tendency to be assholes. If you can't deal,

it's better to find a way to stop working with the public. It's unrealistic to expect the public to change their behavior to suit your needs as a representative in the retail or service industry, and wrong to use the authority you have in your job to punish them for behavior you personally don't like. The example you use is silly. The better analogy would be his refusing to wait on you until you change the song on your radio because he finds it offensive. Would that be all right for him to do?

[ourbluenation]

73. here's the deal

sis is gay and her partner is from another country. the federal gov't does not recognize their union so partner cannot move here, get married and get a green card. she needs those flying benefits to go back and forth to the other country, which, by the way, is also a country that cannot participate in the greencard lottery thing. they are screwed. that is what is keeping her at that job. love. and love rules all. so she keeps flying.

[pnwmom]

22. There's no evidence the girl "knew what she was doing."

If by that you mean, intended to cause a commotion or get arrested.

She was 13 and living in Hawaii when 9/11 happened. She probably had no idea how deeply it affected Boston. And having been a student immersed in the techie culture of MIT, she had no idea that circuit boards and 9 volt batteries can look scary to the rest of us.

Just for the record, since you might be unaware, she had designed the circuit board so that it lit up lights in the shape of a star. Her name -- STAR. She had made it to wear at Career Day the day before, and she had worn it around campus for several days without attracting any negative attention.

[Warren DeMontague]

33. I'm not sure she knew what she was doing. I think she was clueless.

Dumb thing to do, and certainly not thought out.

I don't think she's a hero. Hopefully she understands, now, what the problem was.

But I'm not positive she realized what she was doing or how it might be perceived.

[piesRsquare]

59. From the message boards at the Boston Herald regarding this issue...

An excerpt from a message written by someone whose sister was killed on one of the 9/11/01 flights that flew out of Logan:

"It's such a shame that some believe the freedom of expression means the freedom to act without dignity and respect. I'm a librarian and a writer, and I love that I have the freedom to surround my library's patrons with books of every kind and that I can fill a blank page with any words I wish. But I pursue those freedoms with a dignity that is worthy of them and of my sister, who can no longer enjoy freedoms of such a kind or any other."

Her sentiments seem similar to yours, ourbluenation, and with which I agree.

[karlrschneider]

69. Did the passenger have his DVD player plugged into the plane's entertainment system?

Was he forcing the stews to watch it?
??

[ourbluenation]

71. no, it was only seen by people around him. every 9-11 is a tense day for passengers and crew.

it was just a shitty thing for the young man to do. he had the towers falling, on a loop. how'd you like to sit next to that on 9-11, on a flight from sfo to ny? I'm a nervous nelly when I fly regardless, but that would have sent me over the edge...i would have not hesitated for a second to tell him to turn the m'fer off.

[karlrschneider]

75. So why didn't the offended person referenced in the OP do that?

Maybe they just like being offended...??

[theredpen]

74. Better Days

In the 1940's, some MIT students decided to pull a prank at the much-celebrated Harvard/Yale football game. Before the game, they buried some explosive detonation cord in the turf such that when it was set off, it would burn "MIT" into the center of the field. Harvard discovered this and decided to punish the perpetrators.

In order to set off the cord, the MIT students needed a large current, so they came to the game with large, powerful dry-cell batteries hidden in their overcoats. They figured that everyone at the game would be wearing overcoats, so they'd fit in. Unfortunately for them, the Harvard authorities were looking out for this and rounded them up.

A dean at MIT was informed of the incident and rushed to Harvard to intercede. "Why have these boys been detained?" he demanded. He was told, "Because they had coats lined with batteries." At this, the dean looked greatly relieved. He opened his coat, revealing several large dry-cell batteries and informed them, "Tech men always carry batteries."

(Ah... the 1940's... when the Fascists were on the other side of the ocean and wearing batteries might get you arrested, but not shot.)