consider for a moment . . . What if all three of these things are true? . . .

[OneBlueSky]

suspend whatever disbelief you may have for one brief moment and consider the very real possibility . . . What if all three of these things are true? . . .

1) what if Bush and Cheney were NOT elected by the American people, but stole both of their elections through a variety of nefarious means;

2) what if the events of 9/11 were, at minimum, allowed to happen and, at worse, facilitated by factions of the Bush/Cheney administration; and

3) what if the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have NOTHING to do with democracy, or stopping terrorism, or anything else other than oil and massive (and largely illegal) corporate profits . . .

IF these three things are indeed true -- and there is massive evidence in the public record to suggest that they may well be -- they paint a absolutely frightening picture of where we stand as a nation . . .

- are the forces guiding our national affairs so powerful and so evil that all three of these things could actually be true? . . .

- is EVERYTHING therefore a lie? . . . is the entire American myth really nothing more than that -- a myth? . . .

- and, if these three things are true, why is NO ONE is doing anything about it? . . . not the Congress, not the courts, not the press, no one . . . are they all part of a conspiracy so massive that it's difficult to even wrap your mind around? . . .

- and -- maybe most importantly -- what additional crimes might we expect in the not-too-distant future? . . .

I, for one, have come to believe that all three of these things ARE indeed true . . . and I tremble at the thought of what this means for our so-called "democracy" . . . I'm not sure it even exists anymore -- or if it ever did . . .

[gateley]

1. Yeah,

what if. :sarcasm:

[fenriswolf]

2. thats my status quo

[gateley]

3. And these are just three things out of countless despicable acts they've committed. nt

[grasswire]

4. there are four things

The fourth is the creation of a separate reality as articulated by Will Pitt several days ago in his essay on insanity. Included in this item is the Unitary Executive, the politicization of the Justice Department, and the associated disconnect.

[ClayZ]

5. K and R (blinders off here, too)

:hide:

[Phrogman]

6. What if the same people that allowed 9/11 to happen also engineered the crash of the dollar

that we're seeing now?

[defendandprotect]

39. Bankrupting the Treasury is a direct way to destroy democracy ---

[sce56]

7. The evidence is overwhelming that those things you cited are true

Look at the testimony of Norman Mineta
Mineta: “During the time that the airplane was coming into the Pentagon, there was a young man who would come in and say to the Vice President…the plane is 50 miles out…the plane is 30 miles out….and when it got down to the plane is 10 miles out, the young man also said to the vice president “do the orders still stand?” And the Vice President turned and whipped his neck around and said “Of course the orders still stand, have you heard anything to the contrary!??”

What was the order not to shoot down the plane but rather to let it come unmolested!

Got Fascism Yet?

“Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we,” Bush said. “They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we.” Aug 5, 2004

Fascism Accomplished!

One year after the release of "The 9/11 Commission Report", serious questions that were raised before and during the Commission proceedings remain unanswered. For many, the Commission Report raised more questions than it answered. Not the least of these has been posed by honorable Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney. McKinney recently questioned Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld and Chair of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Myers “about the four war games that were taking place on September 11 and how they may have impaired our ability to respond to those attacks.” McKinney got a partial answer a week later. In the first on-the-record acknowledgement that there were four war games underway on 9/11/01, Myers told her that all battle positions were manned because of the drills…

“..so it was an easy transition from an exercise into a real world situation. It actually enhanced the response.”

This answer echoed one provided by General Ralph Eberhart during the final 9/11 Commission hearing. The question to Eberhart, posed by Commissioner Roemer, was coerced by hearing attendees who interrupted the hearing, forcing the issue by yelling “What about the war games?”

The failure of air defenses to respond on that morning does not support the given answer by Myers and Eberhart. In addition, the drill being conducted at the National Reconnaissance Office on 9/11 simulating a plane crashing into that building, and the existence of bioterror drill Operation Tripod on the ground in lower Manhattan have had no illumination. As with the recent London Bombings, co-incident training drills have not been treated as pertinent to the investigation.

[warren pease]

8. Let's see...

...yes to 1 through 3. Then yes to the next two bullet points. To the third bullet point, because you're right, they're all in it together - dems in congress who feed at the same corporate trough as the GOP, the courts who have been packed with wingnut judges vetted by the neo-con Federalist Society, the press (and media in general) 80 percent of which is now owned by five mega-corporations who bought all these media outlets to spread lies and provide distractions that protect their vested interests in the status quo, and no one but a few outstanding investigative reporters (one of whom, Greg Palast, can't even work in the US) and internet researchers and bloggers

As to the immediate future, there's the possibility of a false flag attack on Portland next month as TopOFF 4 combines with Vigilant Shield 08 to bring an unholy alliance of federal security agencies, national guard troops, maybe even some Blackwater mercs, local law enforcement and Overlord Cheney here to participate in a simulated (I hope) dirty nuke terrorist attack (TopOFF) while also conducting a simulated (I hope) imposition of martial law (Vigilant Shield) on a major US city. The exercise (I hope) begins Oct. 15 and lasts either five or 10 days, depending on the source.

Those of us who see the potential for something sinister in all this have formed a modest coalition to inform the public, beat on the local press and generally make pains in the ass of ourselves in hopes that heightened awareness and publicity will change their plans and spare us from getting nuked. This is the kind of thing I'd just love to be wrong about, and would gladly be taken for a paranoid loon rather than a charred or irradiated corpse. Link to our pathetic but rapidly growing web site here: http://tinyurl.com/25lak4

Interestingly, Phoenix and Guam are also in for similar exercises. Not a mention on AZ indymedia, and I don't know much about researching issues in Guam. Portland has been all over the story for weeks and you can find a bunch of material here: http://tinyurl.com/338gxx

Meanwhile, paranoid loons R us...


wp

[grasswire]

13. I don't see anything but supposition regarding Portland

Maybe I didn't follow the right link from the link, but I didn't see anything to support the notion that Portland was an intended target. Got anything more direct on that? Thanks.

[warren pease]

17. Well, it's all supposition isn't it...

They haven't made an official announcement that they're going to nuke us. And this is one of those things I'd so dearly love to be wrong about. I can accept being branded as a paranoid loon if that's the alternative to being vaporized, charbroiled or irradiated.

Here's a few links, with embedded sublinks, that might give you a better idea of the concern this coming war game has generated out here. My particular favorite is the Harvard study of the blast area and the probable path of the resulting radioactive plume. It's a very small map on this link; I managed to copy and paste it into a Word doc and I can now see the familiar landmarks.

It's also interesting that this map isn't identified as part of Portland. ID was made by general topography and by street names. It shows the northern part of the city, the port area on the Willamette River leading into the Columbia. Ground zero is a span called the Steel Bridge and the blast area includes the port of Portland and surrounding industrial areas.

The plume reaches down the river toward downtown Portland, but ends before actually reaching it. In this scenario, an important part of the economy would be killed off (the port), as well as some rust-belt style industrial areas and, of course, a bunch of brown and black people who happen to live just to the southeast of the vaporization zone. Sounds like Cheney's version of nirvana to me. As a very blue city that misses no opportunity to display its hatred of BushCo, it's really the perfect target.

There are two other maps of a similar nature -- blast zones and radiation plumes -- both of D.C. and both clearly labeled as such. Why not this one? I've no idea; just passing on bits of information.

Here's some links, the first to an article, a little thin on evidence and sources, that claims TopOff/Vigilant Shield is either prep for martial law or cover for a false flag op: http://tinyurl.com/2o6c7r (note the embedded links)

This one is an encyclopedic compilation of links to articles, resources, fact sheets, historical references and background on the dangers imposed by this kind of exercise. This piece is specific to Operation Noble Resolve, which fortunately came and went without incident, but contains many links to data on the Oct. 15 exercises. If anything TopOFF/VS is Noble Resolve on steroids: http://tinyurl.com/2hje73

And here's that map: http://tinyurl.com/ywzuhs

I'm kind of in the middle of all this, so if you want more evidence, I'll see what I can dig up (all speculation, of course, since there's been no news release issued to the effect that the US govt. plans to nuke Portland and impose martial law).


wp

[earth mom]

30. Have you notified any Oregon Media-not that it would make a difference with those corporate shills.

:scared:

BTW-Thanks for posting all the links, I'm not that far from Portland and this has me totally freaking out. All I keep saying to myself is OMFG-and I'm agnostic.

[warren pease]

31. Yup, the lamestream media is "all over it..."

As you can imagine, the Oregonian has mentioned that certain groups of "conspiracy theorists" (read: paranoid lunatic fruitcakes) have speculated about malicious intent on the part of our fine elected leaders, but not to worry, it's a necessary exercise in these times of uncertainty and peril, it's only a drill, nothing to worry about, citizens, now just move on and lets talk about OJ for a while...

That kind of coverage. However, we've dropped off informational packets at quite a few places, including KPOJ (specifically Thom Hartman), KBOO (Teresa Mitchell), the mayor, the fire and police chiefs, all city commissioners, the FBI (really), Port of Portland director and staff, county commissioners, The Tribune, The Oregonian (David Sarasohn and a feature writer who's shown some interest in the past), Willamette Week and a few others like hospital and university media relations offices and such. We've decided local TV is worse than useless, as is the rest of the radio dial except the two mentioned above.

So yeah, there's a bit of effort put into it. I'm not sure how many people are involved, although the Portland Truth site gets quite a few hits. There are about 20 people involved in the core group of paranoid lunatic fruitcakes, including myself, so please PM me for further info if you want.

Also, we've all decided to stick around town and go down with the ship, if necessary. In fact, plans call for us to protest at ground zero -- which the maps tell us is the Steel Bridge up by the port. Of course, they could always pull a rope-a-dope and blow up Lake Oswego, but why kill their own?


Good night, and good luck (as an actual newscaster used to say, back when such people existed).

wp

[warren pease]

18. And a couple more links...

This one to an article by a friend of mine who connects the dots rather well (plus a better view of that Portland map): http://tinyurl.com/3anapn

And a link to my response to her article: http://tinyurl.com/3exoj2 which was adapted from my post on a DU thread re the B-52 and the nuclear-tipped cruise missiles.


wp

[Mme. Defarge]

20. Here is a link

http://www.dhs.gov/xprepresp/training/gc_1179430526487.shtm

[warren pease]

32. Thank you, Madame...

Still clicking away on those knitting needles in the Place de la Concorde?

Anyway, we've got links to most of the official statements about this at http://www.oregontruthalliance.org/ including news releases, that fact sheet you linked to, and a bunch of other stuff from the feds.

As always, you have to consider the source. Had this been 10 years ago, I wouldn't have been concerned about much except the extra traffic congestion and, since I work at home, I largely don't give a damn about that.

These days, with the public not properly terrorized anymore, resistance to the Iraq occupation huge and growing, calls for impeachment getting louder and louder, BushCo tanking in the polls, November '08 getting closer and the PNAC agenda still unfulfilled, you can make a pretty good case that these madmen think it's about time the public get back to the proper level of terror and compliance. Add that to the insane calls for "another 9/11" from some GOP officials and their mouthpieces in mass media, and you've got a hell of a volatile mix.

The dirty nuke that they've been predicting would be so convenient since it would combine creation of a new round of American chicken shit behavior with the added bonus of a perfect excuse to impose martial law, suspend elections and crown Bushie Intergalactic Czar for Life.

We'll see. As I noted earlier, I'd be ecstatic to be wrong about this and happy to be branded a paranoid loon if that's the price for faulty reasoning. Better a loon than a cinder.


wp

[Mme. Defarge]

37. This little excercise is, quite literally,

too close to home. This really has been my deepest fear since th '00 election fiasco. Like you, I hope and pray that I a merely a victim of my own over-active imagination.

Liberté, égalité, fraternité!

[2rth2pwr]

9. The conspiracy is so massive that you can't wrap

your mind around it.

from tinrobot- "A Coversation"

BUSH: So, what's the plan again?

CHENEY: Well, we need to invade Iraq and Afghanistan. So what we've decided to do is crash a whole bunch of remote-controlled planes into Wall Street and the Pentagon, say they're real hijacked commercial planes, and blame it on the towelheads; then we'll just blow up the buildings ourselves to make sure they actually fall down.

RUMSFELD: Right! And we'll make sure that some of the hijackers are agents of Saddam Hussein! That way we'll have no problem getting the public to buy the invasion.

CHENEY: No, Dick, we won't.

RUMSFELD: We won't?

CHENEY: No, that's too obvious. We'll make the hijackers Al Qaeda and then just imply a connection to Iraq.

RUMSFELD: But if we're just making up the whole thing, why not just put Saddam's fingerprints on the attack?

CHENEY: (sighing) It just has to be this way, Dick. Ups the ante, as it were. This way, we're not insulated if things go wrong in Iraq. Gives us incentive to get the invasion right the first time around.

BUSH: I'm a total idiot who can barely read, so I'll buy that. But I've got a question. Why do we need to crash planes into the Towers at all? Since everyone knows terrorists already tried to blow up that building complex from the ground up once, why don't we just blow it up like we plan to anyway, and blame the bombs on the terrorists?

RUMSFELD: Mr. President, you don't understand. It's much better to sneak into the buildings ourselves in the days before the attacks, plant the bombs and then make it look like it was exploding planes that brought the buildings down. That way, we involve more people in the plot, stand a much greater chance of being exposed and needlessly complicate everything!

CHENEY: Of course, just toppling the Twin Towers will never be enough. No one would give us the war mandate we need if we just blow up the Towers. Clearly, we also need to shoot a missile at a small corner of the Pentagon to create a mightily underpublicized additional symbol of international terrorism -- and then, obviously, we need to fake a plane crash in the middle of farking nowhere in rural Pennsylvania.

RUMSFELD: Yeah, it goes without saying that the level of public outrage will not be sufficient without that crash in the middle of farking nowhere.

CHENEY: And the Pentagon crash -- we'll have to do it in broad daylight and say it was a plane, even though it'll really be a cruise missile.

BUSH: Wait, why do we have to use a missile?

CHENEY: Because it's much easier to shoot a missile and say it was a plane. It's not easy to steer a real passenger plane into the Pentagon. Planes are hard to come by.

BUSH: But aren't we using two planes for the Twin Towers?

CHENEY: Mr. President, you're missing the point. With the Pentagon, we use a missile, and say it was a plane.

BUSH: Right, but I'm saying, why don't we just use a plane and say it was a plane? We'll be doing that with the Twin Towers, right?

CHENEY: Right, but in this case, we use a missile. (Throws hands up in frustration) Don, can you help me out here?

RUMSFELD: Mr. President, in Washington, we use a missile because it's sneakier that way. Using an actual plane would be too obvious, even though we'll be doing just that in New York.

BUSH: Oh, OK.

RUMSFELD: The other good thing about saying that it was a passenger jet is that that way, we have to invent a few hundred fictional victims and account for a nonexistent missing crew and plane. It's always better when you leave more cover story to invent, more legwork to do and more possible holes to investigate. Doubt, legwork and possible exposure -- you can't pull off any good conspiracy without them.

CHENEY: Hey, why don't we put Ted Olson's wife on that fictional Pentagon plane to make it look even more real. He won't mind hiding his wife for the rest of her natural life.

BUSH : Can I stand on the wreckage with a megaphone?

[2rth2pwr]

10. more

BUSH: You guys are brilliant! Because if there's one thing about Americans -- they won't let a president go to war without a damn good reason. How could we ever get the media, the corporate world and our military to endorse an invasion of a secular Iraqi state unless we faked an attack against New York at the hands of a bunch of Saudi religious radicals? Why, they'd never buy it. Look at how hard it was to get us into Vietnam, Iraq the last time, Kosovo?

CHENEY: Like pulling teeth!

RUMSFELD: Well, I'm sold on the idea. Let's call the Joint Chiefs, the FAA, the New York and Washington, D.C., fire departments, Rudy Giuliani, all three networks, the families of a thousand fictional airline victims, MI5, the FBI, FEMA, the NYPD, Larry Eagleburger, Osama bin Laden, Noam Chomsky and the fifty thousand other people we'll need to pull this off. There isn't a moment to lose!

BUSH: Don't forget to call all of those Wall Street hotshots who donated $100 million to our last campaign. They'll be thrilled to know that we'll be targeting them for execution as part of our thousand-tentacled modern-day bonehead Reichstag scheme! After all, if we're going to make martyrs -- why not make them out of our campaign paymasters? shiat, didn't the Merrill Lynch guys say they needed a refurbishing in their New York offices?

RUMSFELD: Oh, they'll get a refurbishing, all right. Just in time for the "Big Wedding"!

ALL THREE: (cackling) Mwah-hah-hah!

[Perry Logan]

11. If you believe these things, your only choices are 1) armed rebellion, or 2) expatriation.

If the Truthers want to try an armed rebellion against the U.S. government, let them go ahead. That would be quite a battle.

Or--if the Truthers want to leave our country--that's fine with me, too. Most of us have heard the theory, got on the web, read the debunkings, and moved on.

http://www.911myths.com/
http://www.debunking911.com/
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/home

[sojourner]

25. speak for yourself. I am not a "made-it-happen" tinfoil hatter, but I believe 911 was allowed.

Debunk away and may you go happily through life with your blinders on.

[defendandprotect]

40. "Allowed" would require having NORAD stand down . . . .

And, "allowed" is too weak a report of what Cheney was doing here . . . .

QUOTE --

Mineta: “During the time that the airplane was coming into the Pentagon, there was a young man who would come in and say to the Vice President…the plane is 50 miles out…the plane is 30 miles out….and when it got down to the plane is 10 miles out, the young man also said to the vice president “do the orders still stand?” And the Vice President turned and whipped his neck around and said “Of course the orders still stand, have you heard anything to the contrary!??” UNQUOTE

What was the order not to shoot down the plane but rather to let it come unmolested!



THIS is not "allowed" -- it is participation by Cheney --
THIS is aiding and abetting the attack --

Any new thoughts, then, on "allowed" -- ?????

[baldguy]

12. "What if...?" What do you mean "What if...?"

America isn't a myth. It's an ideal that was stolen & destroyed.

What we are seeing now is the result of a fascist coup by neocon dominionists with the complicity of the corporate media. They maintain control just like any other totalitarian dictatorship - through bribery, intimidation and fear.

[RangerRK]

14. We're not just a nation of bumbling idiots who can't build skyscrapers?

or intercept fighter jets?

[Totally Committed]

15. If we can ever prove that all three of things are true...

can we impeach all the Justices they placed on the SCOTUS?

Just wondering.

TC

[intheflow]

23. If true,

we can kick out all their appointees. At least, that's my dream.

[defendandprotect]

41. We can impeach Justices without having them involved in 9/11 treason ---

[blues90]

16. I have had no doubt these things were true from the begining

We did have an american at one point , where it began to fall apart I cannot say , all sorts of speculation out there .

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

19. Am I to suspend disbelief long enough to swallow truth or suspend truth long enough to,...

,...HOLD ON TIGHT to all the beliefs I hold?

I know what this government IS,...this government is NOT me or any human being I have ever known.

What none of us want to acknowledge is the fact that, a revolution is beyond us, now. We can't even peacefully demonstrate without our lives and liberties being threatened.

The state of this nation is, in fact, that bad.

OMFG!!! :cry:

[defendandprotect]

42. They are frightening you into throwing up a white flag of surrencer --

Rethink the protests -- do them differently -- there are many ways we can cripple corporate-fascism . . . .

We also need to move our own designated candidates into place ---

Who do you want?

[L. Coyote]

21. What is #2 would not have happened if not for #1? We'll never know, but what if?

Al Gore's experience, rather than Bush's imcompetence, and a distinct path from Jan. 2001 might have averted 9/11.

[defendandprotect]

43. Hard to say about Gore . . . his career was lifelong backed by oil company ---

He encouraged Clinton to overturn 60 years of Welfare guarantees --
said little about Global Warming while VP --

PICKED LIEBERMANN FOR VICE PRESIDENT -- !!!! WHAAAAAT ??????

[williesgirl]

22. Glad to be 5th rec, but unhappily I agree with you.

[sojourner]

24. Jeez Louise... this has been my state of being for the past 6 years!

But welcome to my world!

[Blashyrkh]

26. I believe there is more to 3 than just corporate profits, but yeah.

Not a very tough "what if" question for me.

[in_cog_ni_to]

27. I believe all 3 are true and Congress must know it and are complicit OR they're being blackmailed/

extorted. Those are the only 2 choices that could possibly make sense.

The courts are packed with RWers. They all know the truth and ARE complicit. This is a RWer's wet dream! It's what they've been waiting for all these years.

The press knows the truth and are also complicit. They're all RWers! The corporate owners are Rwers and the journalist, except KO, are all RWers.

Our country is GONE.

[mitchum]

29. They are part of, or lackeys for, the oligarchy

[mitchum]

28. Much of the American myth has always been just that...nothing but a myth

[Kelly Rupert]

33. What if #2 isn't, and #3 is a gross simplification?

Can we return to our lives?

[defendandprotect]

45. You mean . . . can YOU go back to watching TV--- ?????

No, you can't --

The reality is that patriarchy and capitalism are suicidal and have now delivered Global Warming which should have been responded to 30 years ago --

[RiverStone]

34. Reminds me of the need for V.

And the ONLY way to ensure that indeed the country in NOT run by the corporate/wingnut/propaganda machine is to ensure that our votes count!

Complete and independent oversight of our entire voting process MUST be in place by 2008. Without that, the tail wags the dog.

[DemGa]

35. I do not consider Bush a legitimate president

I live with that as an American.

The rest is so bizarre it's hard to say. But the illegal Iraq invasion has to be the one of the greatest deceptions ever.

[Pachamama]

36. Nothing can change or stop this Juggernaut until the vast majority of the US population realizes

these 3 things and more....

Actually, I think deep down inside there are many who realize all three, or atleast two of the three things, but its such a scary thing for them to contemplate in terms of what it means, that it is far easier for them to live in denial about it.

Yes, I've been trembling since Dec. 13th, 2000 about what this all means....and sadly, I realize that until more of my fellow Americans realize what is happening, it won't be stopped.

- Enemy Combatants and No Habeas Corpus (You can be arrested and put away where no one has access to you and you never see the light of day or trial)
- Elimantion of the Posse Comitatus Act (US Military can be used against its citizens on US Soil)
- Warrantless wiretapping and profile databases containing your private info (Database profiles on everything from who you talk to, email, travel with, purchase, spend your time etc.)

And ofcourse much more...when is enough enough? When are things going to be so bad that people wake up? I keep asking myself that question everyday..... :cry:

[AuntPatsy]

38. Good post, I must have missed it earlier.

[yardwork]

44. I see plenty of evidence that all three are true.

[defendandprotect]

46. We have a consensus . . . .. Now What -- ?????