Another victim of Fascism

[formercia]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7008922.stm

Australia targets workshy surfers
By Phil Mercer
BBC News, Sydney


Welfare recipients living in some beach areas will be the target of a new crackdown by the Australian government.

Ministers say that some coastal towns have "stubbornly" high unemployment where people refuse to work and choose instead to surf and relax on the beach.
--snip--

Full employment

Australia's conservative government has made full employment a key objective ahead of a general election later this year.

--snip--
One option would be to force people to work for their welfare benefits a lot sooner than they have to at the moment.

--snip--

No more layabout surf bums.

Off t' da camps wi ye.

[MethuenProgressive]

1. "force people to work for their welfare benefits a lot sooner" = Fascism?

Not by any measure does this compare to fascism.

[NMMNG]

2. Whew

I thought I was the only one shaking my head and wondering if I was reading it wrong.

[formercia]

3. Like many isms, it comes in many forms.

Full employment was a standard of the Nazis as well.

Just because it's subtle, doesn't mean it's not Fascism.

[DRoseDARs]

42. Sooo, requiring people to get a job in order to continue receiving welfare benefits ... is bad?

Put down the bong, friend, you need to change out the water. Why should able-bodied surf bums be allowed to actively avoid working and still continue to receive welfare benefits? They aren't crippled, the vast majority of them probably aren't single mothers, and they almost certainly can read. There's nothing stopping them from finding work other than their own laziness. Australia has to import workers from other countries to fill jobs. Make the bums go to school and work towards trade skills if they don't want to work. They should be doing SOMETHING that ends in them no longer requiring welfare benefits.

[NaturalHigh]

10. Thank you.

I enjoy common sense.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

33. I believe you completely miss reality. We do not live in world of 100% employment.

We do not live in a world where every human being has the capacity to BE employed.

We live in a world of human-imposed limits and restrictions, REAL disabled and poor, REAL hardship and suffering.

What do you do with that? Make those who can't get a means of living shove themselves into the sea?

:shrug:

[DRoseDARs]

44. Although Australia has 4% unemp, they still have to import workers...

If you think requiring people to hold some kind of job is too much, require them to go to school and actively pursue a trade skill. There are jobs to fill and foreign workers are being brought in to fill them. There are always exceptions and special cases, but I strongly suspect that the fact that unemployment is highest in beach areas means there's a lot of surfers who are otherwise more than capable of working.

[Tian Zhuangzhuang]

4. I have no problem with someone sitting on the beach smoking

pot and surfing all day. Heck I could care less if the adults down the street watch porn and play video games all day. Should they receive a Dole check for the privilege? no.

America has the same problem but it is financed primarily by very misguided parents rather than the government.

[formercia]

5. Then take away their benefits

Forcing someone to work is the issue here.

[NaturalHigh]

13. I'm fine with that.

I don't want to force anyone to work, but I don't want to support them if they won't.

[rucky]

6. 100% employment implies that 100% of the unemployed is undeserving.

kinda like Ray-gun's "Welfare Queen" myth designed to undo social services.

[formercia]

8. Germany tried that

I remember one case of a woman losing her benefits because she refused to accept a job as a sex worker.

[petronius]

16. According to Snopes, at least, that was a case of very bad reporting

http://www.snopes.com/media/notnews/brothel.asp

[NaturalHigh]

12. Agreed.

[AlCzervik]

7. it's not fascism, it's get off your assisim. Did you read this part?

A chronic skills shortage has left some industries awash with jobs.

The government is recruiting thousands more skilled workers from overseas to plug gaps in the labour market.

[formercia]

9. So, we should all be 'Good Germans'?

and give the lazy bums the boot they so deserve.

[AlCzervik]

11. so you can surf but you can't work? How about giving the benefits to those who really need them.

[formercia]

14. When you have a government run by a bunch

of anal-retentive bean counters who can't see the value in someone except to define value as a positive cash flow, that's about what to expect.

Instead, they should look upon these surfer beach bums as a tourist attraction, for i'm sure many go to the beaches to watch the surfers in action. Perhaps an artistic stipend, much like was done during the New Deal to encourage the arts.

Even these 'bums' provide indirect revenue.

[Tian Zhuangzhuang]

19. A tourist attraction?

So government benefits should be based on how good looking and buffed you are? There are plenty of people who make a living surfing either teaching or on tour. Those without the skill set not so much. If I play golf every day am I a tourist attraction? How about if I take of my shirt when I play?

So good looking tan athletes should get money from ugly pale people. And only photogenic homeless people need apply?

[rockymountaindem]

15. Yeah, seriously

This thread is kind of surreal. Now being told that you should get a job instead of being a beach bum if you want to get welfare checks is akin to being shipped off to a concentration camp? :wtf:

[LanternWaste]

25. You didn't get the memo?

When there's no valid argument to be found, one will surely get targeted with the sobriquet of 'nazi' and 'authoritarian' on DU these days. You didn't get the memo?

[depakid]

43. Bottom line is that a person NEEDS THE SKILLS

that the industries are looking for. Also from the article- the Australian unemployment rate is 4%.

Tossing around the so called "personal responsibility" card is easy to do- that's why the Howard Government is doing it- and some people will buy into it hook line and sinker.

Welfare queens with surfboards instead Cadillacs. LOL>

[AlCzervik]

45. no one is telling them they can't go surfing and since they're able bodied they

can get a job, maybe it's not one they want but it would be something to pay the bills.

[depakid]

46. Again- that would depend on what a person's skills are

You can't just go out and work if there aren't "able bodied" jobs to be had in you area. Not everyone can be accountants and health care professionals.

[leeroysphitz]

17. Wow the whole "Good German" meme is getting a ton of play lately n/t

[earth mom]

20. No one and No goverment should tell people they "have" to work.

Did you even notice that the jobs they are recruiting for are hairdressers? Sounds like "service" jobs to me which we all know don't pay squat. No doubt those beach bums are smart enough to figure out that they'd rather scrape by and be able to have fun and surf rather than join the rat race where they are nothing but the working poor.

Which is exactly what has happened to the U.S. where immigrants are taking all those jobs that "no one else wants to do". You know, those "service" jobs that pay next to nothing that you can't afford to live on.

I don't blame those beach bums one bit. Let em enjoy their lives. They aren't "serfs" you know, if you'll pardon the pun.

[Tian Zhuangzhuang]

21. No one is forcing anyone to work.

They are forcing them to look for (and take) a job for their welfare benefits. Why should any able bodied adult (as these surfers undoubtedly are) receive any money at all?

Welfare should be for those that need it not those that choose an alternative path. The alternative path should certainly be available but it needs to be sustainable without taking money from the poor who suffer when benefits are restricted. Those benefits are restricted (and demonized) when those able bodied young people take the poor man's bread.

[earth mom]

23. Woah. Why does your post ring as some sort of rethuglican screed?

FYI-each person is different and has a unique reason for being on unemployment or welfare. Perhaps some of them are even going back to school in the evenings to change careers and make their lives better. To lump everyone into a group and say that they are sponging off of the rest of society is just plain old bullshit. It's what the thugs love to do-it's their favorite thing to do in fact because they hate the thought of THEIR money being spent on anyone else but themselves. Meanwhile they have no problem with THEIR money and MY money being spent to KILL people over in Iraq.

What in the hell is so wrong spending money to help people LIVE?! :wtf:

[Tian Zhuangzhuang]

24. I working under the assumption

That there are limited resources to help those in need. This isn't about taking money from surfers and giving it to the rich. This is about people with real needs not getting the help they deserve because some "dude" wants to smoke pot and surf all day.

I don't believe in a permanent underclass of able bodied men who simply choose not to work.

"FYI-each person is different and has a unique reason for being on unemployment or welfare."

This is not unemployment which is earned through previous work.

"Perhaps some of them are even going back to school in the evenings to change careers and make their lives better."

And they cannot work during the day because? A lot of people worked really shit jobs while going to school. (And to think of it after finishing school)

"To lump everyone into a group and say that they are sponging off of the rest of society is just plain old bullshit."

If you spend you days surfing at the beach you shouldn't get a government check. You should get a night job. :) (Or a rich girlfriend or gullible parents whatever floats ones boat)

edit for grammer

[rockymountaindem]

26. What?

What that poster wrote is not a Republican screed in any way. What he/she is saying, and I agree with it, is that welfare money should be used to help people who either can't work, or who can work but for some other reason are still not able to make ends meet (single-parent families, health issues, etc.). *That's* helping people live. Helping people live the *exact* kind of lifestyle they want, even when there are no obstacles to their being gainfully employed, diverts funds from those who really need them.

I'm 20 years old and a student. Once I'm ready to enter the workforce, I plan to do so. Of course, I could go off and be a beach bum in Florida or Hawaii or other suitable balmy location. I could be some kind of ski bum in my own state if I wanted to. That's my right, but it would be wrong of me to expect other people who are contributing to the economy to pay for my choice not to work, and it would be wrong for able-bodied educated me to divert funds from those who are really in need.

I'm not saying these beach types should be *forced* to get jobs, but I don't see why the government should subsidize their relaxation.

[earth mom]

27. It's the assumption here that they aren't entitled to benefits. That's what I'm talking about. nt

[cali]

36. And if they're able bodied

and don't have a mental disablitity, why should they be entitled to the dole? You do realize that other people are supporting their sunny surf filled days, right? Welfare is to help those who need it. How do you know these folks aren't using resources that could be helping those who really could use it?

[rockymountaindem]

40. Um, they're not entitled.

Why do you think they are?

[earth mom]

47. Who said? How do you know? Or is that what the reich wing says? nt

[rockymountaindem]

49. You can keep throwing that screed about me being a RWer all you want

But the fact is that no welfare system worth the name should give money to people who can work, but blatantly choose not to in order to pursue a life of pleasure. Surfing is their prerogative, but they shouldn't get government money for it.

[terminal_concept]

18. you might not know

there are people where I live who are required to work for welfare benefits. For less than minimum wage. That's right ,no one will hire you so the welfare department sends you somewhere to work 20 hours a week +/- for your benefits. Now why they don't just hire you directly I don't know. Probably because every time a poor person needs something a market opens up. Variable rate mortgages, loan centers, Mcjobs,etc..

But don't forget to blame yourself! No matter who rips you off or how many jobs go to China!

I think that if the local Mcdonalds can't find workers it is a good thing. If everyone can find a job that pays enough to live off of then everyone can just go home and cook for themselves..

I may be a little off topic just needed to rant.

[cali]

22. The dumbing down of DU

Can't you find anything better to be outraged about.

[formercia]

28. Isn't it great how a thread like this brings out the best in people.

You would think I was in Germany 1933, trying to defend the rights of Gypsies.

[cali]

29. Don't flatter yourself

Defending the right of surfers to live on the dole isn't exactly the same thing.

[formercia]

30. Ah, but it is.

It's just a matter of scale.

There's a big difference between defending someone and deciding their fate.

[cali]

32. No. It isn't.

It's not even about scale unless the gov't is going to force them to work.

Get a grip.

[formercia]

34. I have a good grip.

Once we start to single out a group for selective action, it is the beginning of the end, regardless of motive.

[cali]

38. For fuck's sake

explain why these folks, if they're of sound body and mind, should be able to live off the gov't and surf? If that's what they want to do, there's no reason for the gov't to subsidize them.

[formercia]

39. That's not the point i'm trying to make.

These 'surf bums' were singled out as a group. If the authorities want to review individuals and make decisions based on that individual's circumstance that's one thing.

In Germany, it started with the mentally ill, then the disabled and went on from there.

What group will be next?

[sufrommich]

41. So,in Australia,it will start with the surfers?

Is that what you're saying? There are some people who have no right to expect the government to supplement their chosen lifestyle. If one of those surfers is disabled in some way,then it is the disability that would qualify the surfer for aid,if the surfer wants aid because he chooses to surf instead of work,he has no basis for aid,it's that simple.

[Tian Zhuangzhuang]

50. A poem for the Aussie Surfers

When the Aussies came for the surfers
I remained silent;
I was not a surfer.

When they locked up the Ski Bums,
I remained silent;
I was not a Ski Bum.

When they came for the skateboarders,
I did not speak out;
I was not a skateboarder.

When they came for the coach potatoes,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a coach potatoes.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

35. I suppose compassion is not on your list of being human, anymore.

Are you making an assumption that the government is RIGHT over the lives of these people?

Is that your assumption?

[cali]

37. I'm making this assumption:

It is not wrong of the gov't to insist that if these surfer folk want to be on the dole they work for it, assuming, of course, that they aren't mentally or physically disabled. If they want to surf and they are sound in body and mind, I see no reason whatsofuckingever, why the gov't should subsidize them. Has it entered your mind that resources are limited, and that perhaps these people are using resources that could and should go to people who really need assistance?

Want to explain to me how that's so hard hearted and cruel?

[Jed Dilligan]

31. Full employment, just like in Red China. nt

[alphafemale]

48. If they want to have a life without work...fine. Let them dig clams on the beach for food.

Or maybe free checks should be couriered to them so they don't have to take time off from partying, or blister their feet walking to the post office?

:eyes: :nopity:

[hfojvt]

51. you fascist!!!

Why the fu$% should they have to dig for their own clams?? As a Progressive I will be down there to dig clams for them as soon as I get off work and finish my volunteer work for the Salvation Army, the Democratic Party, and helping flood victims. Don't you know that lazy people are ENTITLED to your slave labour?? And you call yourself a progressive.

[ecstatic]

52. Sometimes *capable* people need a slight push in the right direction

If what the government claims is true, then there are capable people who are hanging out at the beach rather than looking for employment. Believe me, you are doing them no favors by encouraging such behavior. There's NOTHING like the feeling of independence.