I think Alan Dershowitz is a flaming douche bag.

[Atman]

He's been making the rounds this morning, calling Columbia "anti-American" and declaring that "civil liberties are stronger than ever" in the United States. I've never thought much about Dershowitz before, but this little performance this morning cemented his image in my mind as being one of those "Israel before America" Americans. One of the guys the author on Bill Maher's show Friday was derided for warning about, as the remarks went right over Maher's head.

Dershowitz thinks civil liberties are "stronger than ever" in the US, while he demands an elected leader should not be allowed to speak before a group of people who invited him? I have absolutely no love for the Iranian President, but has everyone forgotten Cheney's demand that we ratchet up the war talk against Iran after September 10th? And what's been happening? He's the lead story and front page headline on every newscast and paper. The propaganda is being thrown right in our freakin' faces, and Dershowitz is carrying heavy water for BushCo. He should be the next guest on Maher's show, and he and Bill can discuss how much they dig having their phones tapped and their mail read. I got yer "strong civil liberties" right here, gentlemen. Wake the hell up and help America PREVENT more war, not instigate it.

.

[Captain Hilts]

1. Why the term "douche bag?" nt

[Atman]

2. Oh, christ.

:eyes:

Because I'm a douche baggist! I admit! You caught me!

.

[Recursion]

5. I used to think the term was misogynist

Then I reflected that douches themselves are fairly misogynistic inventions and perpetuate the all-too-prevalent myth that women are "dirty" "down there" and need to be "cleaned".

[Atman]

9. Okay then...

So douches are horrible, misogynistic inventions. They're worthless and exist only because of the fear and ignorance of stupid men.

Uh, um...what was the reason I wasn't supposed to call Dershowitz a douche bag again?

Please, can't we stay focused? Must EVERYTHING on DU bring out the PC Police?

.

[madrchsod]

10. yes-- only correct speech is allowed

:rofl:

[msanthrope]

50. No, no--you used the right term for Dershowitz---

Douche-bags are tools of the patriarchy---a very feminist insult.

[Recursion]

63. I wasn't saying you shouldn't use it

And as much as people complain about having to be "correct", there really aren't any consequences for using words that piss people off on DU, since the worst that can happen is you get tombstoned. You have every right to say anything you want, and everyone else has every right to get pissed at you.

My point was that the douche is a tool of the patriarchy, as somebody crossthread pointed out, and since Dershowitz is a patriarchal tool, that seems like a fine thing to call him.

[WillyT]

69. My Complaint, Is That The Adult Students In My Sister's Class...

will be totally confused.

My baby sister teaches conversational English.

On her first day with one class, a few hands went up, and one of the Korean women in the class said, "Alison??? What is 'douche-bag'?"

After my sister stopped laughing, she set them straight.

NOW... these women are gonna think it means Alan Dershowitz.

:rofl::evilgrin::rofl:

___ = ___

And if that's true, then...

___ = ___

:hi:

[Recursion]

98. Heh

NOW... these women are gonna think it means Alan Dershowitz.

Something about that makes me very, very happy

[Bluerthanblue]

84. well, call him a "scum bag" then

maybe they'll cancel each other out-

:hi:

(sorry- i'll go finish reading your post now)

[ChairmanAgnostic]

7. because too much contact with him causes vaginal itch

or if you are male, a smelly, steady penile discharge that even massive antibioics cannot solve.

[Captain Hilts]

13. Good one! nt

[poverlay]

19. A yeast infection then... Not a douchebag. He makes us need a douchebag and that pill that works

in 1 day. I mean who wants to wait 3-7 days?

[Beelzebud]

11. Maybe because Dershowitz *is* a damn douche bag?

The PC speech police get worse by the day...

[Riktor]

37. Agreed

Here they are, going crazy on a Civil Liberties thread. Clearly, they have no sense of irony.

[ElboRuum]

18. Why Not? n/t

[cgrindley]

24. Because he destroys the natural, healthy balance of something? (nt)

[sendero]

45. It is appropriate..

.. and I use it a lot. When it just isn't quite enough, I escalate to "douche bag worm".

[Captain Hilts]

64. Well, the consensus is men think it's okay to use that term. nt

[Beelzebud]

65. You know who got me calling people that?

Janeane Garafalo said it about 4 times an hour on her old radio show.

I guess she just hates women.

[Captain Hilts]

67. Well, just a warning. Don't call black people 'nigger' just because you've heard them do it.

Just a 'heads up' for you.

[Beelzebud]

68. She called men that...

And since when is douche on the level of nigger?

[Atman]

70. When you're a hyper-PC zealot

:shrug:

I can't fucking believe we've been reduced to having to defend "douche bag." What has this party become?

.

[Beelzebud]

77. Good point. I don't know why I bother beating my head against that brick wall...

When "douche bag" is considered a slur on the level of "nigger", the PC Police have totally jumped the shark.

[Bluerthanblue]

87. i don't believe it is on the level either.

One is calling someone a deuragtory label for a fellow human being-

The other is calling someone an inanimate object.

My brother used to call our dog a dildo- (which was sometimes terribly fitting).
You can imagine the confrence that we had with the Head-Start teacher when my older son called his friend that years ago.:crazy:

[Captain Hilts]

89. Didn't say it was on the same level...

but if a woman uses terms relating to women derisively, it's one thing. For a man to use terms relating to women derisively is another.

[Atman]

90. I didn't use a term relating to women derisively.

I used a term relating to a bag full of vinegar some scum bag prude invented years ago because he was a fucking douche bag.

.

[blm]

3. Unfortunately, the Clinton-Lieberman-Dershowitz wing of Dem party gets to

impose their will on the rest of the party because the corporate media ASSURES they can be heard while creating caricatures of real progressive Democrats.

[cali]

4. one of the worst douchbags.

He's a total hypocrite.

[H2O Man]

6. I think that

he is an interesting fellow. There are a wide range of issues that he is able to be objective about, and he frequently has quality insights on these. He seems to be incapable of objectivity when it comes to issues relating to the Middle East.

[TahitiNut]

86. I agree.

I think a lot of the paler DU animosity towards Dershowitz stems from his defense of O.J. Simpson.

:shrug:

[PA Democrat]

8. Dershowitz became irrelevant when he condoned torture.

I have no respect for anything that comes out of his mouth.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

16. probably before that, but that one act confirmed it.

he still has dreams (and a campaign ready) to get on the supremes should a D take office.

[Tesha]

48. Indeed -- that was the signal event where he telegraphed his (warped) worldview. (NT)

[scarletwoman]

82. I'm with you. His support for torture is absolutely repugnant.

He lost all moral authority he may once have had when he wrote his defense of torture.

Furthermore, anyone who wants to stir up more irrational hysteria about Iran is a lying warmongering asshole.

sw

[shain from kane]

12. I haven't cared for him, since he helped O.J. How's he liking his client now? n/t

[madrchsod]

14. ".. Columbia "anti-American"

"civil liberties are stronger than ever" which is alan? you can not have it both ways or does your devotion to israel suspend reason?

[Tyler Durden]

15. An obsolete bag of vinegar, thrust where he isn't needed.

Sounds like the working definition of a douche bag to ME.

[BrklynLib at work]

17. Sadly, I have to agree with you. He has devolved to nothing more than that.

[Zandor]

20. "Israel before America" is an anti-Semitic remark

in regard to someone who is Jewish, for your information.

I part ways with him on some issues, particularly foreign policy, but he's generally progressive.

[Beelzebud]

22. I beg to differ... Israel isn't a race of people, it's a country.

A country that is NOT immune from criticism.

[Zandor]

23. It's predominantly Jewish

and refering to an American Jew as "Israel before America" is anti-Semitic.

Disappointing that I have to explain that.

[Beelzebud]

28. Just because you proclaim it's anti-semitic doesn't make it true.

[Carolina]

80. totally agree

we can't criticize the all right, all the time Israel.

Sheesh. The blind support of Israeal is a huge problem. It really pisses me off that hating what Israel does and calling it on its actions is anti-Semitic. And yes, Dershowitz and Liebermann and others are Israel firsters.

[Elidor]

29. Disappointing that you think that

And still quite incorrect.

[High Plains]

46. Bullshit. n/t

[Arugula Latte]

62. Criticism of Israel does not automatically equate to anti-Semitism.

Nice try, though.

[Atman]

26. No, you are wrong.

Last I checked, Israel was a country. Do you favor a policy in The United States of America that puts the interests of ANY country above our own? I believe there is even a term for that in the legal books.

.

[Zandor]

27. It's the Jewish state

and accusing an American Jew of putting it before America is anti-Semitic.

In response to your question, no, I don't.

[truebrit71]

31. Sorry but that is complete bullshit...

...not even remotely close to being anti-semitic...

[Zandor]

33. It's an accusation of dual loyalty

except it goes even further, accusing him of putting Israel before America.

Or maybe you don't think accusations of dual loyalty to Israel leveled at Jewish Americans are anti-Semitic?

[truebrit71]

34. No I don't. It's not even remotely anti-semitic...

...

[burythehatchet]

41. You got it right on. I also think that the prosecution of Jewish spies

who infiltrate the US government and pass sectrets to AIPAC is TOTALLY ANTI-SEMITIC. If anyone says they have a dual-loyalty, lemme at 'em.

[Riktor]

35. Bullshit

I don't see how criticizing a Jew's position on Israel is any more bigoted than criticizing a Catholic's position on the Pope. For Christ's sake, he didn't criticize the man for being Jewish, he criticized him for taking such a decidedly myopic view of foreign relations.

[Zandor]

36. He accused a Jewish American of being "Israel First"

Anti-Semitic, beyond debate.

[Atman]

39. I accused an AMERICAN of putting the interests of ANOTHER COUNTRY first.

Get your facts straight.

.

[Zandor]

40. A Jewish American Putting Israel First

Tell the whole story.

[burythehatchet]

42. it teels YOU the whole story.

[LeftishBrit]

57. Well, that's a xenophobic remark, whether anti-semitic or not.

Of course, Dershowitz' remarks were also xenophobic.

Isn't it possible in the 21st century to look at policies in terms of what's right and just, rather than in terms of whether they are 'anti-American' (or 'anti-British') or 'putting another country first'? Of course, it's fair enough to look first at what benefits your own country, but that should be acknowledged to be a pragmatic consideration, rather than a moral one that trumps everything else.

[Riktor]

58. I disagree

Dershowitz advocates foreign policy that harms America's reputation abroad because it is intrinsically immoral and unjust. To criticize this is in no way xenophobic. The author of this thread isn't expressing a fear of outsiders, he's expressing disdain for an asinine opinion.

[Gormy Cuss]

73. Have you ever accused any other American of putting Israel before America?

How many time was the person not Jewish? I'm not asking if you can list them here and now. I'm simply asking you if in the past you ever made that assertion about someone who wasn't Jewish. That would clear up the ambiguity.

Standing alone, it's not far-fetched to see your OP comment as anti-Semitic because it's exactly the way some people describe hesitancy over Romney for fear that his Mormonism would come first, or as long ago people voiced the fear that JFK would put the wishes of the Vatican over the Constitution. That Israeli is a sovereign nation is only a small part of the picture. "Israel" is used as code.

[Atman]

76. No, you THINK Israel was used as a code.

Sometimes a word is just a word. Sometimes the name of a country just names the country. Just because YOU didn't understand me doesn't mean I spoke in code. You don't know me, you don't know the circles I hang in. I'm an atheist with many friends of every faith, and we all get along fine.

"Israel" is only "code" for the paranoid and many individuals who are themselves "racist." At least I can TALK to my friends of various ethnic backgrounds without them thinking everything is code for "I hate you."

I am so sick of this shit.

For what it's worth, I've never had any fear Romney would turn America into a Mormon culture. That's fucking stupid, and I'm insulted that you'd lump me into that group. Heal thyself first, dude. Then work on all those others you feel are wronging you just because they speak the truth.

DERSHOWITZ PUTS THE INTERESTS OF ISRAEL ABOVE THOSE OF AMERICA. No ambiguity there. Nor any anti-Semitism. Just the facts. I could give a rat's ass if he was from Greenland or Tortuga. Don't send OUR kids to fight YOUR war.

Israel is like a giant AA meeting...if you deny us, it's just proves you have a problem. It's an argument specifically designed to squelch any argument.

.

[Gormy Cuss]

78. No, I asked you a question and pointed out why your OP comment was ambiguous.

You didn't answered the question but instead reply with an extremely defensive set of comments and a flat out ludicrous set of assumptions about me. You also missed my point about Romney and JFK, which is that people use other language to disguise the gut issue they have with someone's allegiance to a faith. I'm sorry that you felt that was a comment about your own personal feelings about Romney, but that was not the intent.

Having friends of all backgrounds doesn't make you or me or anyone else immune from sometimes saying or writing things that are perceived in a prejudicial way.

Again, I am not accusing you of anything, simply pointing out ways that language is used to hide prejudicial intent. If you care about others hearing your argument as you intend it, I'm betting that you also care to understand why it is that others are interpreting your words or phrases differently.

Zandor was being shouted down in this thread as if it were ridiculous that the statement was ever anti-Semitic. I was trying to point out to you that Zandor isn't the only one who would make such a connection when "Israel over America" is attached to a Jewish person. I'm trying to think of how often I've heard someone who wasn't Jewish described that way. I can't. Can you?

[Atman]

79. I'm a copy writer. I know full well about "hearing my argument as intended."

But even when I'm writing copy to give away free food to the hungry, there is always SOMEONE who will mis-read it and take offense.

.

[Riktor]

47. Bullshit

Antisemitism is defined as "discrimination against or prejudice or hostility toward Jews". Jews as a whole are not being addressed here. Only one is, and he has made no bones about disclosing his opinions on the Arab-Israeli conflict. He's not being judged without any prior knowledge of his character, nor is he being judged simply because he's Jewish. He's being judged because he's a hypocritical asswipe with a juvenile view of foreign policy. Thus, no antisemitism here.

[tabasco]

49. Beyond debate? LMAO.

In your mind, maybe.

[Atman]

51. Maybe it IS beyond debate.

At least for poor Zandor.

.

[truebrit71]

55. No, sorry, but you are wrong.

How in the world do you make the MASSIVE leap to that conclusion?

It simply is non-sensical...Or does that make me an anti-semite too.. :eyes:

[Bluerthanblue]

99. is this man an anti-semite?

Rabbi Moshe Hirsh
www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull&cid=1139395563055

[Clark2008]

56. My husband is Jewish and he says there are too many people

in our government (and beyond) who are more beholden to Israel than to the United States.

It's not anti-Semetic - it's anti-imperial.

[PDenton]

59. Dershowitz is a neo-con

Not a liberal. Like all Neo-Cons, Israel can do no wrong and all enemies of the Zionist Entity should be America's enemies too.

[TahitiNut]

74. Uh-huh. And people dislike Joe Lieberman because he's Jewish, right?

:eyes:

Such brain-dead claims are devoid of both logic and any sense of what constitutes such bigotry. To so trivialize and exploit antisemitism is a gross disservice to sanity and justice in our discourse.

[provis99]

92. well, they wouldn't criticize Liebermann if he was a Southern Baptist

Frankly, a lot of the criticism of Liebermann IS anti-semitic.

[TahitiNut]

95. Carlos! Is that you???

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[scarletwoman]

83. First of all, anyone who defends torture is NOT "generally progressive". Anyone who defends torture

is a goddamned fascist.

And criticizing someone for putting Israel before the U.S. is NOT "anti-Semitism", it's merely the observation of a certain behavior.

I absolutely resent the distortions that "Israel first" thinking creates in our politics and policies, and I will totally support anyone who calls people out for doing so.

If you really cared about Jews, you would refrain from such a wanton tossing about of such a deadly serious accusation. You cheapen the very meaning of the term.

sw

[karynnj]

21. His comments on Columbia University were way over the top

Those comments were disgusting - I heard the ones on the Scarborough show. I really think that Columbia should demand an apology. These comments went out across the country and they defamed the students. These comments were worse than the Imus comments about the Rutgers students. The Imus comments were offensive, but were likely seen by everyone as simply bad behavior on the part of Imus, not a reflection on the women.

[Atman]

25. I agree completely. He painted every student as "Anti American"

But sadly, I think anyone who demands Dershowitz apologize will similarly be labeled. Dershowitz's remarks were 100% out of line.

.

[Poll_Blind]

30. EGO reputo proinde Alan Dershowitz est a vagina pera.

I know Alan Dershowitz is a flaming douche bag!

PB

[lateo]

32. I couldn't agree more.

[Totally Committed]

38. Yes, yes he is.

'Nuff said.

TC

[sendero]

43. Yes....

........ everyone is for free speech, as long as it's only them doing the talking.

[Joanne98]

44. You mean pro-torture Alan is now anti-free speech?

Boy has he changed. I used to like him but now I got no respect.

[NNN0LHI]

53. The torture stuff was plenty enough for me too

I didn't need to get to the anti-free speech to know what type of fella Dershowitz is.

Don

[PDenton]

60. Pro-torture, pro censorship

umm... you connect the dots. Except for being Jewish he could be a National Socialist. OMG, GODWIN!

[OneBlueSky]

52. Dershowitz's main problem is that he loves listening to himself . . . n/t

.

[PDenton]

61. He's an armchair pundit with a degree

Proof that credentialism is alive and well in the US. In a rational society, he'd be working in a deli somewhere.

[tsuki]

54. I am going to call for a Senate Resolution to condemn Atman for

calling brave American Alan Dershowitz a flaming douche bag. How dare Atman!!111!

I'm series1!!1

[roguevalley]

66. I wish you could have seen him on The Advocates back in the

70's when Michael Dukakis moderated panels debating the impeachment of Richard Nixon.

[zippy890]

71. agreed n/t

[Cha]

72. I say dershowitz is a

low down, self serving, arrogant, bloviatin' pisser, who needs to wake up and mainline some coffee or something.

[entanglement]

75. Dershowitz is just another intellectually dishonest Israeli supremacist

[provis99]

93. Oh, and when will you be pinning the Star of David to him?

[lligrd]

81. And To Think I Actually Used To Respect The Guy

What the hell happened to him?

[jgraz]

85. I really object to your term "Flaming Douche Bag"

Scientifically, it's extremely hard to set a douche bag on fire, especially if it has been, um, prepared for use.

In the future, I suggest you substitute "Flaming Tampon" as the material conatined therein is much more combustible. (Assuming you want to stick with the whole feminine hygene theme).

[BornagainDUer]

88. A minor error in your post...

its spelled "Dearth-O-wits". :evilgrin: :bounce:

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

91. You're being much too kind.

[rosesaylavee]

94. Clicked on this thread expecting

a nifty clever Atman cartoon. Hmmmm. Would love to see Dershowitz immortalized in one of your special treatments.

I have thought he was beneath contempt since the late 90s when he started floating the idea that torture was 'acceptable' in certain cases. Those were the days when my jaw dropped maybe only once or twice a year.

[Zomby Woof]

96. I knew that when he defended Von Bulow

Everyone should have their day in court, but that doesn't get you off the scumbag hook.

[HughMoran]

97. With a capitol "D"

I can't stand him at all any more - he's become extremely bitter.

[KitchenWitch]

100. And this is news?