HRC refuses to commit to full troop Iraq pull-out by end of first term.

[AtomicKitten]

On Sunday talk show, Clinton refuses to commit to full Iraq pullout by end of first term
Published: Monday September 24, 2007

The leading Democratic contender for the presidency was asked whether she'd pull out all troops from Iraq in her first term.

She declined.

"You know, I'm not going to get into hypotheticals and make pledges, because I don't know what I'm going to inherit," Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-NY) told ABC's George Stephanopoulos, according to the New York Times. "I don't know and neither do any of us know what will be the situation in the region. How much more aggressive will Iran have become? What will be happening in the Middle East?

"How much more of an influence will the chaos in Iraq have in terms of what's going on in the greater region?" she continued. "Will we have pushed Al Qaeda in Iraq out of their stronghold with our new partnership with some of the tribal sheikhs or will they have regrouped and retrenched? I don't know and I think it's not appropriate to be speculating."
http://rawstory.com//news/2007/On_Sunday_talk_show_Clinton_refuses_0924.html

[cali]

1. Anyone who thinks all U.S troops will

be out of Iraq within the next ten years- no matter who the president is- is living in a fantasy world.

It's so depressing I can't bare thinking of it.

[Tyler Durden]

3. Unless we get Kucinch.

DOG I wish he had a chance.

[theoldman]

2. Like it or not we are stuck in Iraq for the long term.

The next president will probably pull most of the troops out but I would guess that 50,000 will stay for many years. It will not make much difference which party wins the presidency.

[Zenlitened]

4. Chilling, but true: "I don't know what I'm going to inherit... and neither do any of us know."

Whichever Democrat wins the White House, you can be damned sure the Bushies will have left things in as much disarray as possible. Iraq. Mideast. Russia (Cold War - The Sequel). Budget. Infrastructure. Energy strategy. You name it. :grr:

[AtomicKitten]

6. Someone should call GAME OVER.

One can only imagine the further damage Junior can and will inflict on the planet between now and 1/20/09.

[MadHound]

5. Another reason I'll never vote for Hillary,

Another reason that the Democratic party, excepting a very few, is starting to disgust me as much as the 'Pugs. Playing politics with people's lives and refusing to do what the people want to be done.

Utterly fucking disgusting. Well gee Hillary, if you don't get out troops out ASAP, guess what, it's your war too. What's going to be real fun is watching posters around here spin on their anti-war position and try to justify Hillary's desire to continue the carnage.

[dysfunctional press]

15. i CANNOT and WILL NOT vote for her either.

but unless Gore steps up, she's going to be the dlc nominee.

[sandnsea]

7. She's really got people duped

She's gone from total support of the war to pretending to be for withdrawal to supporting the whole fighting the terrorists in Iraq nonsense. She makes it incredibly difficult for the anti-war Dems in the Senate to craft legislation or for the party as a whole to craft a new foreign policy. I don't know why people can't figure out she supports the whole DLC global dominance policy. Nothing is going to change with her in the White House.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

8. I can't understand why anyone who's serious about ending the war...

would even consider voting for this person.

[jobycom]

9. And that's the one gripe I have with her.

Not so much that she won't pull the troops out immediately--neither will Obama or Edwards, even if they promise to--but that I can see her prolonging the war in the hopes of "fixing" what we broke.

There is a school of thought in the Democratic Party that we as a nation destroyed Iraq, and it would be a sin to leave it this way. I thought like that briefly back in 03, but I came to the conclusion that no matter when we left Iraq, the same struggle, wars, and bloodbath would occur whether we do it now or wait twenty years.

People think Clinton is triangulating on this, but I don't think that's it. I believe she feels deeply responsible, as a nation, for the situation in Iraq, and will want to make it better, and I'm concerned that she will fall into the LBJ trap of thinking that if she just does a little more she can fix the whole thing. She is smart and decisive on most issues, but it's a hard decision when your decision really counts to walk away and allow the slaughter of tens of thousands more people. It's like pulling your finger from the dike, knowing there will be a flood, but hoping people will rebuild the dike. For some reason, what I've seen of her makes me wonder if she will make the right decision there.

If I vote against her in the primaries, that will be why. On the other hand, I don't believe Edwards or Obama would do it differently, either, and I don't think either has the experience at handling any decision like that, when the Pentagon and the career staffers will all be telling them to stay. So I don't see them as better alternatives. At least neither has convinced me yet.

On the other hand, she's likely to listen to people like Gore and Clark on the issue. Maybe that will be enough. Sigh. Fuck you, Nader. There was a difference between Gore and Bush. We shouldn't have to be dealing with this shit now.

[AtomicKitten]

11. I'm still hoping Gore jumps in.

Because short of that, I've got to put my money on the kid that wasn't bamboozled by the rush to war and did not participate in the abdication Congress' war-declaring powers to Junior. IMO that was the test that illustrated the difference between a leader and a follower.

[jobycom]

14. I'm not sure which kid you mean.

Kucinich or Obama, I guess--those are the two who everyone claims never voted for the war. But I don't think anyone was really fooled in the Senate, I think they just knew they couldn't stop it and they did what they could do. Obama wasn't there, and even he has said that he can't be sure how he would have voted if he had been. Kucinich knew he was safe in his little local district, so he could vote how he wanted, but as his views on abortion show, he's not against changing his position overnight to improve his election chances. So I don't trust him, either.

Gore I like. Wish he was in it. Of course, in 2000 Gore was seen the way Clinton is now, which is why Nader got so many votes in the first place. Now he's the hero of the people who kept him from getting elected. I heard Michael Moore say he wanted Gore to run, and almost tried to reach through my radio to strangle him. Now they are all against Clinton, so if she loses she'll be the great liberal hero and all those who hated her will support her then. Sigh. I've lived long enough to be worn out by that pattern.

Just venting. Sorry. :)

[AtomicKitten]

18. It's a process of elimination for me.

Kucinich is unelectable in my opinion, again. It is what it is.

Obama was very clear in a speech in 2002, before the war, that Iraq was a terrible idea. Apparently later in an interview when asked point blank, he admitted in retrospect, hypothetically (I should have packed a lunch for this journey!) he didn't know if he would have voted for the war at the time. A moment of truthfulness and costly sincerity because some his detractors have glommed onto that one sentence uttered in one interview to prove, what? That he wasn't savvy (?) enough to pander? The facts are that (1) He was against the war in 2002 and (2) in a one-sentence reply in one interview indicated uncertainty as to how he might have voted in a hypothetical situation, and (3) he, in fact, did NOT vote for the war and the splitting of hairs in this situation cannot dispel the fact that Hillary and Edwards actually DID VOTE FOR THE WAR.

I want Al Gore to run for a multitude of reasons. I'll have to figure out a reset button because I would be all over his campaign if he runs, but I feel confident in supporting Obama in the interim.

The only thing I know for certain is that a Democrat MUST be sworn in in 1/20/09 and will do everything in my power between now and then to make certain that happens.

[flyarm]

10. " end of first term"??????? end of first term??? ..how about first day in office?

this is just bullshit..any dem that does not committ to removing our troops from day one will not get my vote or spit!

fly

[bellasgrams]

12. Anyone can say they will pull all the troops out

But actually doing it is another thing. It may not be possible. We don't know what shape the Mid-east is going to be in before * gets out. She's just being honest. The ones saying they will, will be called liars if it's impossible to do so. Remember 'read my lips no new taxes'?

[emilyg]

16. It's not possible. Get real.

[Elidor]

13. She knows perfectly well what the next president will inherit:

A clusterfuck of epic proportions, waged for no appreciably sane reason. And she can't even admit that much. Duplicitous bullshit.

[peace13]

17. She is so gracious...

graciously admitting that she will allow our soldiers, our children and those of Iraq to die for a war that was a lie to begin with. You can not tell me that she did not know what she was voting for when she agreed to let *ush invade Iraq! She is so willing to continue in his footsteps.