How was the new Ken Burns WWII documentary?

[WilliamPitt]

Are they going to run it again anytime soon?

[truebrit71]

1. Tivoed it, haven't watched it, and yes, if you have cable it's on pretty heavy rotation...

..

[Torn_Scorned_Ignored]

2. It was very good

and very sad. I recommend viewing it.

[Deep13]

3. So far, it is excellent.

The perspective is almost entirely average person. Burns did paint MacArthur as an indecisive, self-absorbed asshole (which he was.)

[xxqqqzme]

11. The impression of mcarthur was fully

explained by the men he abandoned on Bataan. I appreciate the veteran insight and first person accounts. I'll watch the 2nd episode tonight.

It certainly makes a sham out of rat bastards' 'go shopping' for his war effort!

[BridgeTheGap]

14. Yeah, he pointed out the piss poor planning by MacArthur

while retreating - leaving behind a shit load of supplies.
My former girlfriend's dad was in the Bataan death march - lost his best friend, executed by the Japanese for his exhaustion. George weighed 180 pounds at the time they surrendered and by the time he escaped, he weighed 90 lbs.
They were being transported by a freighter, in the hold of the ship, to another island. They were jammed in there and it was extremely hot with little air through the hatch. Some of the men were freaking out, screaming, etc. The japenese told them to be quiet or they would close the hatch.
Several of them continued to yell, so some of the Americans, fearing the hatch would be closed and they would all suffocate, killed one of their own to shut them up.
An American plane bombed the freighter, not knowing there were p.o.w.s on the ship. The Japenese abandoned ship, as it was sinking. George climbed out the hatch, ran to the galley, threw some food in a bad and jumped overboard. He had seen two islands in the distance, picked one and swam for it.
A Filipino man picked him up out in the water and hid him for weeks until he could get the U.S. military in for a rescue.
George went back to the Phillipines in the 90s (I think) and met with the man who pulled him out of the water. He also went to the Bataan death march memorial where he found his friend's name. His wife told me that this was the only time she ever saw George cry during their entire marriage.

[Deep13]

16. That is what Burns meant when he said it was not a "good war," ...

...but rather the worst war.

[BridgeTheGap]

21. Two of my uncles were at D-Day (both deceased now)

They both ended up as heavy drinkers, one went to prison for awhile.
One, a bazooka gunner, was severly wounded several weeks after d-day, taking shrapnel from a german tank and was a bloody mess. He was found wandering down a road. He also would have died from gangreen but for Japenese-American physician who examined him on the troop ship coming home and treated him for gangreen.
He told me that he really didn't give a shit about the United States government. He fought to protect his home and family.

[asjr]

19. And there are thousands more stories

like that. I had 3 uncles in service in WW2 and it was like pulling teeth to get any of them to speak of what they went through. One uncle was with Patton in Europe and he did have some stories to tell. I just wish I could remember them. My grandmother had 3 blue stars in the window. Thank goodness they never changed to gold.

[BridgeTheGap]

22. I met a guy years ago who was an aide to Patton.

He also spoke German. He turned me on to drinking scotch and as we proceeded to get shit faced, he told the following story:
They were advancing into Germany and getting some resistance. He was on foot, getting shot at when he jumped into a foxhole occupied by a german soldier whom he immediately stabbed in the chest with his bayonet. The guy didn't die right away and Bill started speaking with him, and actually expressed his remorse for having just stabbed the guy. The guy told him not to feel guilty for doing his duty as a soldier. Besides, he told him, if he had the chance, he would done it to Bill.
He asked Bill to visit his wife and tell her that he loved her, etc. Bill found her after the war.
His wife told me later that Bill sent a check to her every month!

[asjr]

26. Thanks for that story. My Uncle

Bob was on an oil tanker that put in to a dock in Haiti. My Mom and Dad and I were in Haiti at the same time and didn't know until after the war about it. If only we had known we would have been able to see him.

[lazer47]

24. Exactly,, this is the first film that actually

tells about how piss poor MacArthur was a planning,, and how much of a rear area hero he was...

[Parche]

32. McArthur

Left the B-17's wingtip to wingtip, when he knew that America had been attacked.


Also read about the 'Marus'in 1944 that were torpedoed by the USS Queenfish submarine
that were carrying thousands of POW's, from Singapore and Phillipines back to Japan, only a handful made it even out of the ships, and some were floating for days.
They were rescued by the famous USS Barb and USS Pampanito (which is now a museum in SanFrancisco)

[JuniperLea]

4. Great so far!

As with The Civil War and Jazz, I'm betting it gets run again... and again... and again...


I only watched The Civil War three or four times... Jazz only twice... this one, which I thought would be my least favorite, will no doubt be viewed as many times as I can catch it.

It really brings into focus the storied I heard tell by my great uncles.

[Dancing_Dave]

5. Last night just covered the first year of the war

And it was very sombre reflecting the devastating impact the war had on millions of people. I'm looking forward to seeing the second one tonight.

[Botany]

6. Outstanding!

Done to Ken Burns level of quality.

Fun fact WW II cost the equivalent of 3 trillion current U.S. dollars
(and our government knew that taxes would not cover the cost so they
sold war bonds)
Iraq war's cost is closing in on 2 trillion
(bush just gets more credit from China, Japan, Korea, and Saudi Arabia)

[trekbiker]

15. I think you meant to say Trillion?? n/t

[Botany]

17. thanx

n/t

[LanternWaste]

7. Very nice with a bottom-up view.

Very nice with a bottom-up view. Rather than focusing on grand strategy and tactics (al al World at War), Burns went for the perspective from the solider, his family and friends through interviews and letters. If you've ever read Studs Terkel's 'The Good War', you'd be inclined to think that that was where Burns got the genesis of his idea.

A few things I was impressed with: the sheer quantity of stock footage I've never seen before; in-depth interviews dealing with American POW's, and their treatment at the hands of the Japanese (most documentaries I've seen about the war at best only mention it in passing); and since this thing is hours and hours in length, Burns has a pretty free reign to concentrate on some minutia I've not seen elsewhere.

A caveat: Yes, I'm an apostate-- this is the first of Burns' documentaries I've watched, so I don't know how it compares to the rest of his work, but in comparison to other WWII documentaries, it's pretty damn good so far.

[FightingIrish]

8. The first installment was awesome.

I set a new record for time elapsed without touching the remote. The documentary shows how ordinary Americans did the extraordinary. I couldn't help asking myself if today's America would be up the challenge.

[grasswire]

9. We need to ask if that sacrifice paid for Bush's fascism?

Why are Americans tolerating at home, right now, what their grandparents sacrificed to defeat just sixty years ago?

Wake up, America! Get mad!

[vireo]

23. Blind nationalism is my only explanation

I've struggled to explain how WWII vets can support this regime.

[JuniperLea]

29. Well said!!!

Then get extra mad when Bush compares this 'war' (and I use the term loosely) to WWII! And himself to the great leaders of that time.

[catmandu57]

27. So did I

After the first few minutes I shut the computer down and laid the remote on my desk for the entirety of the program. I believe it's on every night this week, I looked and it's on again tonight and tomorrow, that's as far as I read.

[daninthemoon]

10. Very effective and sobering in telling of Guadelcanal and much

more. Also very touching and human when women and kids from the time speak of neighborhood men starting to "disappear" in combat. A stark contrast to today's situation. Can't wait for the next segment.

[pscot]

12. Heavy on emotion

and slightly incoherent. Maybe a couple more drinks would have helped.

[Arkansas Granny]

13. Only the first part was aired last night. You should check your

local PBS station for broadcast times. It was unusual for a war documentary in that they only interviewed soldiers and their families, not the decision makers. It was more about the impact of war on individuals than about the war itself.

[riverdeep]

18. Sounds interesting

I'm really sick of that History Channel's war is a glorious thing, Hitler Hitler Hitler, aren't P-47's neat? (okay, they are, but...) bullshit.

[stopbush]

20. As usual, I have a contrary view:

1. The pan-n-scan, zoom in, zoom out on a bunch of still photos is absolute cliche at this point, especially as literally miles of film footage exist of WWII. I could see using this technique to provide a sense of motion in the Baseball (which I own on VHS tape) & Civil War series where video footage doesn't exist, but WWII? I think the answer is that it's become a K Burns trademark, just like Speilberg loves zoom-n-elevate camera shots in his films.

2. Within the first episode, Burns was already using some footage/photos two and three times. Why? There's enough WWII footage available to fill 100 such documentaries. Why the repetition? Also, I noticed at least one very famous clip (the back of a jeep catching fire while the driver is still driving) that is available in full color that Burns showed in B&W. I wonder why that decision was made?

3. Perhaps later episodes will fill in the blanks, but this initial episode provided an extremely myopic view of THE war. Nothing about the lead-up to the war. If the entire series is as USA-centered as the first episode, then this documentary will be, at best, a very limited view of the conflict.

4. The music sort of sucked. "The Death of Falstaff" from Walton's Henry V film music was a bit over used for my taste. I liked the jazz excerpts, but the use of Homedown Hootenany pieces whenever a farm or rural scene popped up were predictable and ho-hum.

5. I'll keep my hopes up, but I can't see how this particular series will trump old The World at War narrated by Olivier. This first episode added nothing to the record or our understanding of WWII (again, I hope further episodes remedy this situation).

6. I've enjoyed Burns other series, but he's up against heavy competition here which - IMHO - includes the HBO series Band of Brothers and docudrama war films like SPR and The Great Raid. These films all draw us into the war on a very human level while staying true to actual events. And because they are films that spend time building specific characters, the emotional involvement is - again, IMHO - greater than even that provided by the interviewees in the Burns production.

7. I agree with Pscot above that the presentation was incoherent. I guess that's a built-in problem with the "4 cities" overview of the film, but it was too much jumping around for my taste.

That said, I'm looking forward to further episodes.

[JuniperLea]

28. Well...

1) That's the epitome of Burns' style. If it's "cliche", it's a cliche of his own making. It wouldn't be a Burns film without it, imho.

2) There's more to come. There's a lot of story to cover yet. As for black and white footage, it's the choice of artists.

3) Myopic was the intent. It's from the perspective of four towns in the USA. It's from the perspective of the people, not governments, not generals, not presidents... the people. That was the intent.

4) Music is a very subjective artform... I love it.

5) I can't imagine this personal view of a war NOT adding understanding. Most of what we have all heard about this war is from a perspective completely different than that of the people from "our home town" which is what this film was trying to do.

6) The problem, as I see it, in comparing this film to those you cite, is that this is the real deal from the perspective of the soldiers and their families. Hollywood depictions aimed at one's heart will no doubt tug. But they aren't real. This is real.

7) This is a thinking person's film, not entertainment. In entertainment, you can sit back and have all the "work" done for you... you are manipulated by story telling without the need of much thought. In a series such as this latest Burns film, you have to do some thinking and use some empathy, which is sadly lacking in today's society.

I applaud Burns for not talking down to us.

[daninthemoon]

31. I loved "Band of Brothers", and have fond memories (I guess that's right)

of watching "World at War" with my family as a kid. I'm not sure there needs to be an either/or type comparison with Burns. I am looking forward to the rest of the series, but do have to admit I wasn't as overcome by the first episode as I had hoped.

[BridgeTheGap]

33. I tend to agree with your assesment

My dad (who didn't serve until after WWII) is somewhat of a buff, collecting books & videos on the war and I've watched some of them. Many have more depth of the actual events than what I've seen so far, though this is still good for what it is.
I missed the first hour last night (out canvassing for our Dem candidate for Gov) so not sure how much they covered this, though they did mention the goal of air superiority prior to D-Day.
The German's had a refinery, I think in Hungary, that primarily produced aviation fuel. They had it there to put it out of bomber range. The allies knew it was there and knew it was critical to take it out of commission. Getting there was the problem. After numerous tries, retrofits for fuel on bombers and fighters they finally did it. The documentary mentioned last night that German industry was able to produce numerous aircraft but the lack of fuel prevented training new pilots, as they had lost so many experienced ones. The story and film about this were fascinating to me.

[w8liftinglady]

34. I didn't see the first one,but the second one did a good job of showing

how all Americans shared responsibility-sacrifice,working in munitions plants.I thought it was extremely well done.I wonder if the stills are used so as to not detract from the narration?

[eleny]

25. Several hankies

The personal stories of the individuals who faced horrors got to me over and over again.

[keith the dem]

30. Loved it, Ken Burns is a master!

The music was perfect as usual.

Burns often uses those still photographs instead of film footage for good reason, you notice details and facial expressions that would be lost on film. I guess that is why we still take photos instead of just video. The photos he used last night certainly had emotional impact.

Anybody see Ken Burns on CNN on Friday. The big headline was that Mr. Burns said that we were lied into the Iraq war. The news whore interviewing him seemed so surprised that someone would say such a thing!

[KharmaTrain]

35. As A "Historian" And Son Of One Who Fought...

I grew up with "The War". You never had to ask "which war"...it was always implied when my parents talked about "The War", it was the years of 1942-45. I would listen to my father's stories about serving in Europe from his graduation from Med School in 1943 until October '45 when he finally came home (he got free admission to a Cubs World Series game).

When my father passed a couple years ago, I inherited his old field locker...inside was his uniform, mess kit and tons of letters and documents...along with letters he and my mother sent each other. While he was gone, my mother struggled...having a child then losing that child while my father was sitting in England awaiting the invasion of Europe. Their letters detailed how both struggled with the separation, the loss, the dying both were seeing and a hope that this madness would end someday. Each letter seemed to mention another friend, another family that had suffered some loss. This war was felt every day in many ways. If it wasn't the death, it was the rationing or lack of being able to find or buy things...but it was a communal war as it affected almost everyone. Not like Vietnam or Iraq, where it's easy to ignore or hide from the war. "The War" was a lifestyle.

One very striking artifact was a "will" my father did prior to his departure to Camp Callum, CA. He was just married with no assets...a far cry from what he ended up with. This "will" was a "standard issue"...very generic and surely similar to those others also signed before they left. This paper was all he had when he left...a hope he'd come back or be remembered.

I'm hoping this series helps recreate a little context about how this war reached into so many lives in such a profound way. The only criticism is that it should be dove-tailed with a series on the Depression...the environment that had a lot to do with the attitudes many had in signing up and fighting.

Cheers...

[BridgeTheGap]

36. One of the guys in the documentary mentioned the standard issue wills

last night. He was a fighter pilot. They had to have 3 other cohorts sign the wills to validate them. This guy said that all 3 of those who signed his will were killed in combat within a year.