Wow - the event at Columbia with Ahmadinejad is going to be quite something...

[Sparkly]

They're really challenging him... Anyone else watching??

[Waya]

1. Yea.....

.....dunno if I'm liking it so far.....

[whistle]

6. on CSpan 3 online right now

http://www.c-span.org/watch/cspan1.asp?Cat=TV&Code=CS

[eleny]

20. Great, thanks!

[Breeze54]

106. Correct link --> C-Span 3 online

http://www.c-span.org/watch/cs_cspan3_rm.asp?Cat=TV&Code=CS3

[whistle]

2. Is it on CSpan?

[Waya]

3. CNN

[babylonsister]

4. Also MSNBC. nt

[Skidmore]

5. I have something I want Bollinger to address....

free speech zones. Who the eff are we to lecture anyone on free speech? Hey, and let's talk about FISA and torture chambers too.

Also he could address American and British colonialism in the ME and Asia while he's at it.

[Waya]

9. That....

...and execution statistics....human rights records...etc....

[whistle]

11. Bollinger is giving a speech not a question

[Justitia]

25. completely bizarre set-up, the Iranian is calling it what it is - political pressure -eom

[0rganism]

Bollinger was re-applying for his job, IMHO

He's not the most popular person in NYC right now. :o

[babylonsister]

7. Yes. Too bad this man doesn't have an opportunity to ask * a lot of

these questions. Something's wrong with this picture.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

8. This Is Interesting

eom

[Sparkly]

12. It's really extraordinary!

[LaraMN]

10. If would be nice if the questioner would stop endlessly proselytizing

and actually pose a question of the man.

I agree with his sentiments, but geez! Every time I think he's finally going to pose a question, he starts talking about something else.

[whistle]

15. A total speech from the Hudson Institute the neocon think tank

[harun]

16. Has Ahmadinijad even been allowed to talk? or does this other

guy just keep on going?

[whistle]

24. He is talking now

[LaraMN]

27. He's speaking now and he's pissed and insulted.

Don't get me wrong; I think Ahmadinejad's a dickweed, but in the interests of sound and productive discourse, I think it would have been better to not rip him to shreds before he even opened his mouth.

[harun]

30. I thought that was rather low class as well (n/t)

[me b zola]

19. That's my feeling

Hes's going on & on, asking questions, freakled with commentary, too numerous for anyone to be able to remember to answer. Many of those questions I would like to hear the response to.

[LaraMN]

29. Precisely. n/t

[slackmaster]

13. Help us cube rats - Who is challenging him on what?

Any questions about the Holocaust by any chance?

[Sparkly]

17. Yes, a prof is providing a case against him, including holocaust denial

Don't think the state dept approved of this... :wow:

[Skidmore]

21. That was the president of Columbia, not just your average professor.

[Sparkly]

50. thanks.

[slackmaster]

22. That's exactly what the sonofabitch deserves

I hope people give him Hell about it.

To me, his Holocaust denial and pledges to destroy Israel put him in a category with neo-Nazi wackos like Ernst Zundel. I have little interest in anything else he might have to say.

[EFerrari]

28. This is so wierd. I just heard him acknowledge the holocaust

at the Press Club. What gives?

I've never really heard a holocaust denier. Are they direct or are they weasely? Do they prevaricate if you ask them a direct question? Not trying to start a war or anything, I'm just confused about what I've heard.

[rodeodance]

14. see this thread for some comments.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3544782&mesg_id=3544782

[DemocratSinceBirth]

18. It Would Have To Suck Being Gay Or A Baha'i In Iran

The persecution of the Baha'i's are especially troubling...If you know anything about them they are a peaceful sect...

[me b zola]

23. It just got hotter!

[whistle]

26. Cube rats this is on CSpan3 now

[Sparkly]

31. He is rambling...

[goodgd_yall]

32. Talking Islamic stuff now---almighty and angels

[goodgd_yall]

33. OMG, he's sending everyone asleep I'm sure right now

[EFerrari]

36. I don't think he is talking to the people in that room.

Last night on 60 Minutes, he was speaking to an American audience. Today, he seems to be talking to his people, not ours.

[goodgd_yall]

37. OK, whatever.

[EFerrari]

42. My eyes were glazing over, too. n/t

[whistle]

47. That proves his point

[EFerrari]

55. Please don't turn me in.

:)

[whistle]

63. Oh I won't I'm just saying that he is using this as a way to prove

...that anyone unable to follow along with him has been corrupted by the materialism and decadence of the West...ZZZzzzz

Wait he is now making the connection

[EFerrari]

69. Exactly. And I bet he wraps up that way, too.

It's as though he's being watched by someone more powerful than he is at home? It's just odd and very different from his interview last night on 60 minutes. :shrug:

[whistle]

196. Well, he concluded by inviting all the professors and students of Columbia University

...to come to Iran and visit any of the 400+ universities in his country and he said they could have free access and discussions at those institutions.

[Justitia]

34. he would have done better to address the political propaganda stuff, not bible stuff -eom

[goodgd_yall]

35. He probably thought this is his chance to convert the contaminated Americans

to Islam.

[rollin74]

Will Ahmadinejad directly address any of the issues that

Bollinger raised. Somehow I doubt it.

[Sparkly]

39. Doesn't seem like it...

He's kind of lecturing on the connections of scientific knowledge and spirituality... :shrug:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

44. A Dialectic If You Will

eom

[harun]

40. I don't think he will waste his time addressing neocon propaganda to

demonize him.

[whistle]

43. Translator is going to sleep

[EFerrari]

48. He will have to field questions from the audience after his speech

for the same amount of time as his speech consumes.

[whistle]

38. How many muslims attend Columbia University? We are getting a lesson

...on Islam apparently. A student paper, uhmmm

[goodgd_yall]

41. I get it now

Because he is at a university, he's giving a lecture about science and its relationship to ???

[Sparkly]

46. Yes, he seems to think he was invited as a guest lecturer?

:shrug:

[EFerrari]

52. Faith? n/t

[Skidmore]

53. Reality and enlightenment?

[EFerrari]

59. What is throwing us (or part of it) is the level of abstraction

he is using. It's different from the one we are used to here in public speech.

[goodgd_yall]

142. True

and he is talking about spirit and science and the 2 are not discussed together in American academia.

[mainegreen]

45. The divine spirit of revealed science blah blah blah. Damn, he's rambling badly.

[bdamomma]

49. not to be funny but no tasers??

[Sparkly]

I'll bet they've got a lot more than tasers in that room. nt

[EFerrari]

65. This reminds me of that scene in Slaughterhouse 5 for some

strange reason. Maybe all the hatred being poured on this man.

[LSK]

51. I am streaming it, just turned it on

[Cameron27]

54. Babbling 'words of the prophet,'

while trying to push some sort of pure science. Total BS.

[TornadoTN]

56. Now he's coming around - referencing the injustice of our government and warmongering

[TornadoTN]

58. "they have unleased destruction on cultures that have been in existence for thousands of years"

[Waya]

60. Bout time.....

....didn't tune in to hear a sermon....

[TornadoTN]

62. Same here - we have to hear that enough from our own presidential disaster

[goodgd_yall]

57. Here he goes---attacking *

without naming him.

[whistle]

71. Well that is easy schrub* could never follow along with this man

[AnotherGreenWorld]

61. Does anyone know if this will be repeated, and if so, when?

I really wanted to see this. Just turned it on...looks like I missed some of it. :(

[whistle]

67. probably on CSpan3

[goodgd_yall]

64. Referring to nuclear research, I take it

[TornadoTN]

66. Appears that way - "they want to supress progress in developing nations"

[bdamomma]

76. ..............

why can India and Pakistan have nukes and us also, and why can't Iran have nukes just for a power resource, this man has said over and over again, they do not seek having bombs.

[Whisp]

68. mentioned depleted urainium.

big powers don't want some countries to develop/advance. science and knowledge are gods gift to man. science has to combine purity of man's spirit and use htat truth for advancing humanities cause.

sounds like a nutbar!
Debt to America!

[TornadoTN]

70. I'm wondering if the translator is not on her game today

I'm going to have to read the transcript, either he is just throwing stuff out there or she just isn't understanding what he's saying.

[Justitia]

79. Her translation is beyond poor, she's a bit bizarre. -eom

[TornadoTN]

88. I would like to see an official Iranian transcript and the official U.S. one

She's bad, probably one of the worst translators I've heard.

[goodgd_yall]

72. Giving his credentials

[TornadoTN]

75. "I am speaking as a Professor"

[piesRsquare]

73. This guy is so full of it! LOL

:boring: :freak:

[nashville_brook]

74. here you go -- 60 years of conflict and terror in Palestine

[LSK]

77. talking about the Palestinians now

[goodgd_yall]

78. Attack on Israel, et al without naming them

[LSK]

80. so everything is rosey in the West Bank?

[piesRsquare]

84. It's not "Israel" to him...

...it's the "Zionist Entity". :eyes:

[goodgd_yall]

81. Oh-oh holocaust denial

[Justitia]

82. uh oh - here comes the Holocaust stuff.... -eom

[Waya]

97. As much as it galls me....but the dude almost makes sense.....

[TornadoTN]

83. Addressing the Holocaust - saying that there has not been a thorough review of the evidence

[EFerrari]

He's trying in a legalistic way to tie back the fact of the Holocaust

to what is presently happening in Palestine.

He's not denying the Holocaust but he's stupidly choosing the wrong premise to address Palestine. Or, that's how it sounds to me.

[cali]

You need a Holocaust denial primer

Stating that it hasn't been established that it happened is classic Holocaust denial. And as Juan Cole says; Ahmadinejad is a Holocaust denier. You seem stubbornly determined not to accept that.

[goodgd_yall]

85. Imprisoning of Europeans questioning aspects of Holocaust

[LSK]

89. what aspects?

[goodgd_yall]

Who knows---he didn't say

[Sparkly]

86. He says holocaust should have more research

because he thinks it happened later, through the 1940s. :crazy:

He wants to research it "from different points of view."

Hm.

[EFerrari]

87. He just acknowledged the Holocaust, again. n/t

[goodgd_yall]

90. He's walking on eggshells---slyly denying it, if you ask me.

[Cameron27]

95. Yes he is.

[LSK]

102. he has a very valid point

The world cannot handle openingly addressing the actions of Israel in the West Bank because of the holocaust. People are so sensitive about the Holocaust that people immediately call you a jew basher if you try to discuss the West Bank situation. It even happens here. This discussion gets sent immediately to the dungeon.

[goodgd_yall]

157. I agree with you in a sense, but he's denying the holocaust, all the same

[0rganism]

194. one can't validly challenge a non-sequiter via the same non-sequiter

If Ahmadinejad wanted to talk Palestine-Israel, he could do it without questioning the existence and magnitude of the Holocaust. I have seen people discuss and debate matters such as the West Bank settlements quite rationally without so much as referencing the Holocaust in passing. (If, on the other hand, he wants to cast doubt on the justifications for the establishment of Israel as a Jewish homeland, then that's something else again.)

[EFerrari]

104. But I've heard him acknowledge it twice today.

I have no experience with Holocaust deniers. Is this how they move, indirectly?

[goodgd_yall]

165. Yes, they tend not to deny it outright

but question facts and research and, especially, the magnitude of the deaths and suffering.

[goodgd_yall]

173. They make it sound like they are interested in pursuing

more research for the sake of knowledge---they pose as academics when they really have an agenda that is anti-Jewish.

[EFerrari]

193. It's hard to read this guy. Because he fits that profile AND

he really was an academic. Isn't he an engineer and wasn't he a professor?

[goodgd_yall]

200. Don't mean to say Holocaust denyers are not really academics

In fact, those are the ones that get into the news. Their credentials draw the attention of the media. But, my point is they give the impression that their interest in researching further is legitimate but their views on the Holocaust are biased from the start. They don't believe what we know of it; it's not that they have come across legitimate sources that cause them to doubt what we know.

[EFerrari]

202. Thanks. As I said before, I've no experience reading or watching

deniers. The whole idea is just really foreign to me.

[goodgd_yall]

203. Try "Holocaust Denial" in Wikipedia

It's a good primer and a jumping off place if you were interested in reading some actual works by HDs.

[nashville_brook]

93. "why should the palestinians pay for the holocaust?"

[LSK]

91. "why are the Palestinian people being punished for the Holocaust?"

[whistle]

96. Good question....now they are trying to shut him up

[TornadoTN]

92. Essentially blaming all problems in the Middle East on the Jews - as a consequence of the Holocaust

[MadBadger]

99. sounds like something hitler would do...

[EFerrari]

129. No, he didn't attack Jews. That's not accurate.

[MadBadger]

94. Putting aside his holocaust views, how do you deal with a hypocrite who is making sense?

[piesRsquare]

100. He's not making sense

Spare us.

[MadBadger]

105. Earlier on, he was saying things that I would say

about wiretapping and bush's policies. That was probably twenty minutes ago though

[TornadoTN]

107. In all fairness, the translation is not coming across

When she gets it right, it makes sense (except for the Holocaust stuff)

[LSK]

108. yes he is

Open your eyes to the situation in the West Bank.

[piesRsquare]

Read a history book n/t

[EFerrari]

118. I've read hundreds of history books and yes, he has a valid

argument. The Holocaust is not a defense when one reproaches the tactics of the rightwing nutcase in power in Isreal. I believe most human rights orgs would agree with me.

[LSK]

122. how about this one?

http://www.amazon.com/Palestine-Peace-Apartheid-Jimmy-Carter/dp/0743285034/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-8358232-2895026?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1190659008&sr=8-1

[goodgd_yall]

98. Somebody must be pointing to his watch----time, time, Ahmad

[whistle]

103. Let him finish

[whistle]

112. He just summed up by questioning Western Imperialism

[TornadoTN]

101. On to Nuclear issues - referencing IAEA and his desire for energy use only

[goodgd_yall]

109. BOOOOS

[Waya]

113. CNN cut audio.....

[LSK]

131. CSPAN3 is covering it

[bdamomma]

110. I can't wait to hear what he's going to say to the UN

He has every right to speak this mind!!!!!!!!!!!! Why are they booing him? well some are booing him!

hopping on that Israel thing again geez, fuck not everyone is going to invade countries like we do! oops Q&A now.

[TornadoTN]

111. Applause and Boo's from the audience - "We are a peaceful loving nation"

[LSK]

114. "We are a peacful loving nation, we love all nations"

Loud mixed applause.

[piesRsquare]

115. Problem is, he doesn't recognize Israel as a nation n/t

[goodgd_yall]

117. He's not asking the question, he says Jews are living in Iran

[goodgd_yall]

204. I meant "he's not answering the question. n/t

[LSK]

126. Where should the people of Palestine live?

[Breeze54]

116. He keeps picking his nose.

His answers are sidestepping the question.

Good!! The Dean of Columbia asked it again!!!

"Do you seek the destruction of Israel?"

[TornadoTN]

119. President of Columbia calling him out on his non-response

[Cameron27]

128. He keeps sidestepping the question,

and calls for a referendum by the Palestinians.

[bdamomma]

120. why don't we grill our own bushie like this.

[goodgd_yall]

123. You said it n/t

[goodgd_yall]

121. Want question answered---Yes or No

[tears4terra]

130. OMG! Is Israel our 51st state? n/t

[piesRsquare]

136. No, but Israel is our closest ally n/t

[bdamomma]

138. could be but I thought Iraq was

[LSK]

134. yes, we Americans can only handle black and white issues

:eyes:

[TornadoTN]

124. Columbia professor answeres "Yes" to the President's rhetorical question of Palestine

Iranian President asked if the Plight of the Palestinian people is of equal importance to the Israel issue.

[piesRsquare]

125. This guy's such an ass n/t

[rollin74]

127. he "answers" questions by asking questions

[goodgd_yall]

133. Isn't that an Islamic teaching method? Or Socratic? Or Evasion?

[EFerrari]

141. That's what I can't figure out. n/t

[Atman]

145. Or "Rumfeldian?"

:shrug:

.

[rollin74]

155. evasive and annoying n/t

[bdamomma]

132. he just said the IAEA has been inspecting the country.

how many times are they going to ask him that question.

[TornadoTN]

135. Referencing Blackwater? Likening them to terrorists supported by the US

[Justitia]

144. yeah, he never named the terrorist group he's referencing -eom

[TornadoTN]

148. "They have camps in Iraq, killing indiscremantely and they are sanctioned by the US Govt."

Sure sounds like Blackwater to me!

[Justitia]

156. I wish he would have just out & out said "who", I think the audience would have been interested. -nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

137. Why Couldn't He Say "I Support A Palestinan State And An Israeli State"?

eom

[EFerrari]

147. That's a good question. And, I don't know enough about him

to know his position.

[piesRsquare]

151. Because he doesn't want a Jewish/Israeli State n/t

[nashville_brook]

b/c israel already is a state -- seems obvious

[bdamomma]

139. more Holocaust questions

[Justitia]

146. I want to hear more on the political stuff. We all know he's nutty on this topic. -eom

[LSK]

140. People support the terrorists and then point the finger to us

He talking about our support of Saudi Arabia?

[Cameron27]

143. Why are you calling for additional research

about the Holocaust?

[TornadoTN]

153. I believe he merely wants all aspects of the holocaust examined - namely the effect on Arabs,etc.

[piesRsquare]

171. This man doesn't give a rat's patooti about Arabs

The man loathes Arabs.

[goodgd_yall]

205. Yep, he's Persian

[LSK]

154. good question

[bdamomma]

149. I wonder what his Ayatollah's think of his trip to the UN.

[LSK]

150. "I am not saying that it did not happen at all"

[EFerrari]

I can't figure out if he's just pragmatic enough not to know

how much this enrages people or what. Because he's clearly not denying the Holocaust. Imho, he's stupid to try to address Palestine via this comparison. And, not because the comparison doesn't work but because he's triggering everyone to the point where they can't hear a word he says.

[Emit]

170. But we need to understand that he's coming at it from his own perspective. n/t

[EFerrari]

184. He's making it too steep a climb. n/t

[Breeze54]

152. He's a tool!

WTF? Why should we stop research about the Holocaust? Huh? :crazy:

His answers seem circular to me.

[TornadoTN]

158. I don't believe it's him, I think the translator is having some issues

Not to excuse him, but the translator is obviously struggling.

[Breeze54]

162. I thought the translator was/is fine except she's

adding a tone, to the answers, of dismay but his saying that the questioner is trying to stop further research or is against it is silly.

[TornadoTN]

168. She's very, very slow and almost unsure during long stretches - plus her emotions

[Breeze54]

185. I thought she was fast!

Are you listening on the web?

I think her pauses are to make sure she's repeating what he says correctly.

She does use a lot of inflection, sounds emotional, in places.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

164. He's Very Good At Talking In Circles...

Noboy objects to holocaust research or slavery research as long as you start from the premise that slavery and the holocaust were truly fucked up...

[Cameron27]

159. He should ask him if he disputes the number of Jews

who were murdered. I think that's where these "new" researchers try to deny the significance of the Holocaust.

[bdamomma]

160. don't the Saudis do the same thing women have no freedom

and gays are shunned.

[rollin74]

161. finally a question about executing gays

[LSK]

163. ***new thread up***

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1891719&mesg_id=1891719

[whistle]

166. He just straightened out my understanding of his position on the holocaust

...he says he never denied that he happened, he challenges the issue of what the holocaust has to do with the Palestinian people and Arab nations. So he is saying that is why he calls for further research on the topic

[LSK]

169. that is the Giant Elephant in the room

[EFerrari]

181. Yes. There it is. n/t

[EFerrari]

176. I think that's what I figured out too, today.

He's an academic. And he's saying, why can you deny the genocide in Palestine? And he's letting people feel the horror, rage and grief of the older genocide.

[piesRsquare]

187. There was no genocide in Palestine.

"Genocide" is not a term to be casually tossed about.

[EFerrari]

191. That's right. There is an ongoing genocide in Palestine. n/t

[goodgd_yall]

188. I don't think so

He needs to minimize the holocaust---that is what the suggestion of more research is about---it is meant to instill doubt in people's minds. If he can have people minimize the magnitude of the Holocaust, then it is easier to deny that Jews have any right to land in the Middle East.

[Sapphire Blue]

167. Ahmadinejad can go to hell.

[Cameron27]

172. I agree.

[rollin74]

174. we don't have homosexuals in Iran

OMFG!

[mainegreen]

177. Wow. That got quite a response, didn't it?

:rofl:

[Waya]

182. He said ...'not like you have them here'....

....essentially, he is right.....they don't have them like we do - openly....and alive.....sheeeeesh

[Breeze54]

190. The audience response was great!!

:rofl:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

175. Says There Are No Gays In Iran

eom

[rollin74]

180. proves that he's a fucking liar

[Atman]

189. Or maybe a Republican

They seem to also vehemently deny homosexuality. It's all just an act, no one is really "homosexual." We can all choose to be straight.

.

[EFerrari]

198. Or going for an easy laugh. Which he got. n/t

[Atman]

199. I hope you don't actually believe that...

and were just going for the easy laugh.

.

[EFerrari]

201. I do believe that. Because when people are tense, that's what they do.

I have no idea what he really thinks. And I'm trying to be careful because like so many straw dogs, he's been so vilified in our media, we'll never know if he's a criminal or just a guy with a desk.

If he's covering for these abuses, he deserves all the condemnation we can heap on him. I just don't know that at this point.

[goodgd_yall]

178. BS about respect of women in Iran

Relieved of political responsibilities

[Emit]

179. One of my best friends in college was a bisexual Iranian. n/t

[mainegreen]

183. 'Women are exempt from some legal responsibilities'... oooh, lucky them.

:eyes:

[ROakes1019]

186. really?

He's holding his own. I don't know enough to say whether what he says if true but he is certainly ten times the diplomat the Columbia president or anyone else here in the US is.

[whistle]

192. Better than shrub*

[whistle]

195. Left handed goodbye from the Columbia moderator

[goodgd_yall]

206. He was brought up to present with some class

Not like GW Boobwit.

[Lerkfish]

197. Just like we challenge our own president!

oh wait....I guess we don't. my mistake.