So, who does Ahmadinajad sound more like so far--a tolerant, peace-loving liberal?

[Bicoastal]

Or is he not the spitting image of a gay-bashing, pro-capital punishment, authoritarian FReeper?

(Rhetorical question, of course)

Anyway, bravo to Columbia's Bollinger--simply masterful. You just held a living mirror up to the likes of Limbaugh and O'Reilly.

[sinkingfeeling]

1. I personally don't believe he sounds like either. He sounds like an intelligent,

educated Muslim man from the Middle East. He may (like some of his christian fundie counterparts) just refuse to recognize there are gay people within Iran or within Islam. I am enjoying listening to his speech and the audience's reaction. On some things, he makes more sense than our own Neocons, and on some, he's as far out of touch with reality as Bush.

[cali]

2. He sounds like a world class hater using language

to obscure rather than enlighten.

[sinkingfeeling]

3. Really? I hear a lot more in the US Senate debates than I heard today.

[bryant69]

7. A lot more of what? n/t

[Bicoastal]

4. Pfffffft.

If, for example, Pat Robertson said that there are no gay Evangelicals in America, you wouldn't be calling him an intelligent, educated Christian man.

I'd hate to be gay and living in Iran right now...

[11cents]

5. Especially given how prone the Iranian justice system is to hanging gays.

In an intelligent, educated way of course.

[LittleClarkie]

41. Something tells me you wouldn't be gay and "living" in Iran

Not openly anyway.

[Skittles]

42. intelligent people do not deny the Holocaust

or think that Iranians cannot be gay; the man is beyond disgusting

[THUNDER HANDS]

6. so outside of not liking gay people?

how's he coming across?

because, you know, half this country isn't exactly tolerant of gay people either.

[TornadoTN]

9. While that issue is important, people forget about the rest

Outside of his idiocy regarding gays - I found him to be an intelligent man that seemed to want to engage us in dialogue. I didn't find myself liking the guy any more or any less, he's merely a world leader with an agenda. Perhaps if we engaged them instead of saber rattling and demonizing, we could affect change in the areas we most vehemently disagree with.

Remember - if it had not been for our meddling in Middle Eastern affairs with our imperialistic foreign policy, this guy wouldn't be in power and the world most likely would have had a more moderate government in place in Iran.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

13. We Don't Hang Gays Here And The Two Yahoos Who Did Are Rotting Away In A Wyoming Prison

eom

[THUNDER HANDS]

26. well we don't, that's true

but then again, is there a resonably equal political party or structure in place in Iran to oppose such a policy, like there is here in this country?

Imagine the right wing Republican party was all we had in America. Do you think gays wouldn't be lynched?

[slackmaster]

23. The adjectives "slick", "cunning" and "deceitful" come to mind

:shrug:

[THUNDER HANDS]

27. sounds like Bush, minus the slick and cunning parts

[Skittles]

43. half this country is a bunch of stupid assholes

that's how he comes across to me

[PDenton]

8. You can't view him through a Western lens

Though he is probably to the right. I actually think he's less rightwing than Bush, though. Can you imagine Bush going to Tehran? Neither can I.

The Dean of Columbia is a rude shit. Ahmadinajad represents 75 million people. He just slapped every one of them in the face. Calling him a dictator is just a step away from Godwin. He needs to stop pandering to pro-Zionists in New York and grow a spine.

[Bicoastal]

10. Bush has been called a dictator too, ya know.

I don't feel like anyone's slapping ME in the face when that happens.

Hey, the Dean has every right to excercise his free speech. Should we taser him because he's being a little rude?

[PDenton]

22. Bush is a slap in the face

[EFerrari]

11. We keep projecting our insanity all over other people.

We really should stop doing that. It could get us killed.

[Bicoastal]

15. Confused...

By "we" do you mean..."me?"

[EFerrari]

18. No. I mean at the level of national policy.

This is how endless war is sold to the public. BushCo says Iran is arming the insurgency when BushCo is arming the insurgency and so on. And meanwhile, our people keep getting killed by this policy which turns out to be homocidal.

[DeepModem Mom]

12. K&R -- Is the enemy of our enemy ALWAYS our friend?

When has any religious fundamentalist, theocrat, Holocaust denier, supporter of execution for gays, and antiSemite (or any one of the these) ever gotten a pass here at DU? Who else could sidestep a question about treatment of gays by denying the existence of gays in an entire nation without a thread about it zooming to the top of the Greatest Page?

Sure he's intelligent, articulate and charming, but most who rise to power over others are (unless, of course, your name is George W. Bush).

[Cameron27]

16. Exactly

:thumbsup:

[EFerrari]

19. No, of course not. But our challenge is to dig out the facts

from the blizzard of propaganda.

For myself, I'm just trying to do that. Not to give anyone a pass or to rationalize abuse or worse. But I live in a place where the media is co-opted. So, it takes some time to shake things out. To verify the horrible reports and to translate the accusations. That's all.

[Chulanowa]

44. I don't think it's ever happened

But given that the alternative seems to be pitching in to join the right-wing's effort to massacre millions of Iranians because of this one kook they elected, I can understand how it might seem that way.

[Bicoastal]

14. delete

delete

[booley]

17. False Dichotomy much?

Why do I have to choose one or the other?

Or worse, why do I need to assume that if he says one thing that I agree with then I have to ignore all the bat shit crazy stuff he has also said? OR assume that he isnt' smart enough to play to his audience?

After all, not every word out of Shrub's mouth has been a lie. Saddam, for instance, was a bad guy who tortured and killed his own people. Doesn't justify going to war (unless you want to go to war with over half our "allies" in the war on terror). And I still recall how Shrub played down his far right ideology to try to sound more moderate (liberal) then he really was. (Compasionate Conservative anyone?)

As the saying goes, if the devil says the sky is blue, that doesn't make the sky yellow or the devil any less the devil. (and no, i am not calling the Iranian president the devil. It' s just a saying.)

So if Ahmadinajad is an Iranian version of Shrub, why give him more benefit of the doubt?

[Tom Rinaldo]

20. OK so Ahmandinajad is not such a swell guy, and neither is Kim in North Korea

And I probably don't want to have a beer with Syria's President either now that I think of it, not that I would want to have one with ours mind you. And I also suspect I would find few tempting drinking partners on the list of third world heads of state that the U.S. sells arms to for that matter.

Not that Bush Administration policy makers are asking me or anything, but since when does the U.S. go to war based on how comfortable we are with the views of other nation's leaders? Which is not to confuse Ahmandinajad with being Iran's leader either, now that I think of it, because he ain't. He has less power inside Iran than Nancy Pelosi does here.

[slackmaster]

21. He pays lip service to issues our Democratic candidates mostly agree with

But that's all it really is, and it's unfortunate that some of us are unable to see through his demagoguery.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

24. He's Very Smart

He knew that by dissin gays he would alienate a large portion of the left which he wants to befriend ... That's why at first he tried to avoid the question and then when cornered could only meekly say "there are no gays in Iran"...

Fuck all antediluvian theocrats from wherever they may hail...

[EFerrari]

25. Or, maybe some of us do see through the demogogery AND

realize that BushCo is playing with it to get more of us killed. Lots of choices here.

[slackmaster]

29. Seeing Bush's demagoguery is not mutually exclusive of seeing Ahmadinejad's

:toast:

[EFerrari]

31. Agreed. If I'm going condemn some new mofo, it would be nice

to do it for legit reasons. lol

[Zandor]

28. Ahmadinajad is the ultimate conservative

Which makes admiration of him by liberals puzzling.

[EFerrari]

30. Is he? Why isn't he in bed with Bush, then?

And, I've read no admiration here. Just people trying to carefully add up facts.

[Zandor]

32. Anti-gay, anti-woman, anti-Semitic

Conservative stuff.

He spills this vile and instead of unqualified condemnations, there are often refrains of "but what about Bush? The Saudis?"

The Saudis are horrific on human rights. Bush blows as a President. But why qualify or try to deflect criticism of this guy?

[EFerrari]

33. I'm not doing either. I just don't buy in every day

to the corporate media spin because you know where that got us.

It's difficult to search for and find the facts. If they condemn this guy, so be it. But it's just no longer possible for me to take what our media reports on faith. We used to call this critical thinking. Not moral relativism but critical thinking. They're in no way the same thing.

[cali]

35. Juan Cole

makes it clear he believes Ahmadinejad is a holocausts denier and has condemned him on several occasions.

[Zandor]

36. You don't believe any of it?

We depend on the media, corporate and all, to bring us the news. We can look for biases, but on the whole we have to give it some credence or we're in the dark. Blogs are more reliable?

Maybe you didn't do it, but I've seen all kinds of that deflection today, and I bet you have too.

[EFerrari]

37. I don't depend on the corporate media

These are the same people that are getting us killed today. Nope, no way. Read it anyway you want. I can't do that.

But that doesn't mean that I form my opinion in opposition to them. It just means I have to find credible sources to get information.

This guy may be everything they say. Unfortunately, I can't take anything they say on faith.

[Zandor]

38. Where do you get your information? n/t

[EFerrari]

39. Indy media, mostly. Cross check with on line sources.

And, I read the corporate print press for spin. Primary sources are always the best but, they're not always available.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

34. Because one's got oil, the other doesn't.

Ideologically they're the same.

[provis99]

40. Troll.