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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 07:44 PM
Original message
They NEED to portray Ahmadinejad as the Evil One
They NEED to portray Islam as Evil.

From HOW TO LOSE THE WAR ON TERROR
PART 4: Acts of faith
By Mark Perry and Alastair Crooke
Jun 6, 2006



~snip~

Neo-conservatism is more than simply a set of ideas - it is a kind of political theology. Its major political principles derive from a critique of modern liberal and secular society. Deeply influenced by the fall of Germany's Weimar Republic, Leo Strauss (a German who emigrated to the US) critiqued Weimar's leaders as being insufficiently ruthless in suppressing the Nazis; they played by the rules and were defeated.

~snip~

In emphasizing the flaws of the Weimar Republic, Strauss struck at what he identified as the three pillars of modern liberal thought: "moral relativism", "multiculturalism" and "utilitarianism". Of the three, moral relativism (Strauss wrote) constitutes the greatest threat to the strength of Western society. If all views are held to be equally legitimate and all views have equal value, Strauss believed, then no person's view can be an expression of the "truth". German National Socialism was not just another point of view, it was an absolute evil. ... Gulled by their liberal secular beliefs, by the bankrupt notion that all ideas are equally credible, and yearning for the rewards of a sleep-inducing materialist society, the leaders of Weimar passed out of office - and into the camps.

"Moral relativism", Strauss believed, would lead inevitably to the eclipse of idealism in the West, undermining the sense of national sacrifice that motivates any society. The atomization of social life through the adoption of "multiculturalism" and the softening of social strength by providing the greatest good for the greatest number would allow people to retreat into their own consumerist bubble.

Bereft of beliefs, adrift in a sea of multiple cultures, fed on the hedonism that followed from the accumulation of material goods, the West would implode. Inevitably "moral relativism", "multiculturalism" and "utilitarianism" will so undermine any society, Strauss argued, that a government's first and only priority would be economic management. The danger of "moral relativism" is that it inevitably leads to political acquiescence. ... Strauss was convinced he was right, and for good reason. He looked on aghast as Weimar's intellectual inheritors (Neville Chamberlain, Charles Lindbergh, the Bund and others) transformed their moral relativism into political appeasement - which led to the deaths of untold millions.

Strauss's answer was that modern societies must shun moral relativism. By implication, Strauss seemed to be saying, the only way for secular and democratic societies to stimulate idealism and national sacrifice is for political leaders to cast national goals in terms of good and evil. Because tyrannies do not hold the same values as republics, the tyrants are always wrong, we are always right, and there can be no excuse, no justification, and no reason behind a tyranny's actions. ... The enemies of those with values are those who have none. Only by understanding this threat - and insisting that the response to it be uncompromising - can evil hope to be defeated.

~snip~

There is little subtlety in the West's presentation of Islam as a religion of barbarians: Christian evangelical programs have regularly described Islam as a "religion of violence" that "rejects our value system". Franklin Graham, the son of the popular American preacher Billy Graham (and a regular visitor to the Bush White House), was outspoken in condemning Islam in the wake of the September 11 attacks, conflating the faith of the attackers with Islam in general: "We did not attack Islam, but Islam attacked us. The god of Islam is not the same god. He's not the son of God of the Christian or Judeo-Christian faith. It's a different god, and I believe it is a very evil and wicked religion," he said.

~snip~


http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/HF06Ak04.html

This article is part IV of a five part series by Crooke and Perry:

Alastair Crooke and Mark Perry are the co-directors of Conflicts Forum, a London-based group dedicated to providing an opening to political Islam. Crooke is the former Middle East adviser to European Union High Representative Javier Solana and served as a staff member of the Mitchell Commission investigating the causes of the second intifada. Perry is a Washington, DC-based political consultant, author of six books on US history, and a former personal adviser to Yasser Arafat.




The other parts can be found here, excerpted below: http://www.atimes.com/atimes/others/howtolose.html

How to lose the 'war on terror'


By Mark Perry and Alastair Crooke

(March '06, ongoing)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PART 1: Talking with the 'terrorists'
Apart from Israel, there are five political movements and governments in the Middle East of undeniable importance: Iran, Syria, Hezbollah, Hamas, and the Muslim Brotherhood. The governments of the West don't talk to any of them, being unable, or unwilling, to distinguish between legitimate Islamist political groups and terrorists. The result is fatal ignorance about the realities of the Middle East, and policies that drive Muslim moderates into the arms of the radicals. Here is what Hamas and Hezbollah have to say.

PART 2: Handing victory to the extremists
The takfiris - those who view all Westerners as infidels and condemn moderate Muslims who talk with the West - have their counterparts in the West: those who fail to distinguish between terrorists and nationalists, between al-Qaeda and legitimate Islamists. With this "they're all the same" attitude, the takfiris in both camps undermine their own causes.

PART 3: An exchange of narratives
After five years of "war on terror" and a staggering expenditure of lives and money, there remains in the West an indefinable yet definite sense of anxiety that somehow the war has gone terribly wrong. Mark Perry and Alastair Crooke explore the intellectual foundations of the confrontation in order to address this anxiety.

PART 4: Acts of faith
The genius of neo-conservatism in the US is that its adherents have an unshakable faith that they are right. Thus opposing views to their vision of a secular Middle East based on Turkey's model are dismissed as "babbling". The voices of Islam, though, while they may be exiled from the halls of government, cannot be banished from the street or the mosque.

PART 5: The politics of indignation
The architects of the West's response to September 11, 2001, are feeling angst because it is slowly dawning on them that they got the "war on terrorism" all wrong, misled, perhaps, by mistaken analogies to the collapse of Soviet communism. So far they have not absorbed what Islamic revivalists are saying.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/others/howtolose.html

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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
1. He is a man who does and says evil things. Just think for a momment
about gays being executed. That is pure evil.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. pure evil is bombing and killing MILLIONS
like bush. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad may talk the dark talk, yet his actions are no worse or nearly as bad as those of Egypt, Israel, Saudi Arabia and guess who else? The good old USA! Unless of course you do not look at the actual deaths caused by said countries policies which many here choose to IGNORE! :eyes:
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Socal31 Donating Member (707 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 07:50 PM
Response to Original message
2. He is evil.
Not because the neos say so. It's just fact. Do some "independent research". That is all.
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THUNDER HANDS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. you know who else is evil?
the people who run Saudi Arabia.
the people who run China.
the people who run Pakastan.


but for some reason we're buddy-buddy with them.

Evil is relative. And those three nations are a worse threat to our national security than Iran. But Iran is an easy target, much like Iraq was. And since Saddam is dead, a new boogeyman needs to rise to take his place.

This Iranian leader is a egotistical blowhard, but he's not the only bad man on the planet. Just the next guy to focus our anger on and pretend that once we topple him, all will be right with the world and the middle east and the "war on terrah."
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subsuelo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. dont forget the people running Israel
It's important to not forget Israel as they are far and away the number one recipient of U.S. aid, as well as diplomatic and ideological support
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PDenton Donating Member (513 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 05:30 AM
Response to Reply #2
34. He's a product of his society
Calling something "Evil" doesn't help you understand it any better, it's just a moral condemnation. So, while you call him "evil" may be true, is it useful? I don't think so.

One might as well say the United States is evil. I can point to dozens of examples of how the American experiment is morally bankrupt. And no, it is not moral relativism. If you were to judge American society based on our own philosophical and religious traditions, there are many evil things about America.
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 07:57 PM
Response to Original message
5. Ahmadinejad is an enemy of Israel and therefor an enemy of the neocon state
The bu$h regime will support what ever decision Israel wants. If they want us to attack Iran, we will attack Iran.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. The meme that Israel controls the U.S
is not only ugly, it's not true.
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Zywiec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. Yes, our support for Israel just started in 2001 and will end in 2009 n/t
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. I think it has been there long before that
And it will not end anytime soon.
I would care to guess that only candidates favorable to the state of Israel have a chance of getting elected in the first place.

But god forbid we have an honest debate about Israel and their influence in this country.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. influence?
Hard to have a discussion about it with people who state or strongly imply that Israel controls the U.S.
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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #5
39. When Israel Says "Jump"
the U.S. asks "How high?"
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 07:59 PM
Response to Original message
7. Great stuff! Really , really great
Well written, knowledgable, full of valuble information. Thank you sou much for posting. k&r
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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 08:00 PM
Response to Original message
8. Ummm.........excuse me, but he IS evil, undoubtedly and without
question. He is a repressive, dictatorial, authoritarian, hard-line radical Islamist who firmly denies the Holocaust, tortures and executes gays, represses and oppresses women, minorities, Jews, any anyone else who doesn't exactly fit his "vision." Do you not realize that Iran is theocratic, imposing Sharia law on everyone? I wouldn't want to be a woman for two seconds in Iran. Do you also not realize that he is likely one of the students who took over the American embassy in 1979 and who helped hold the hostages, OUR FELLOW AMERICANS?

Just because a leader or person opposes Bush does NOT automatically make him a "good guy", by any means at all. He is a damned good PR person and is exploiting dislike and dissatisfaction with Bush for his own purposes, just like Chavez, another dictator, does.

The people here who support him remind me of the leftists who blindly supported Stalin, even when his murderous, dictatorial ways were pretty much known.

Now, I fully and completely agree that any military action against Iran would be utter and total madness and craziness, and have no doubt that we are being manipulated and attempts are being made to whip us up against Iran in order to accomplish that. But that does NOT mean that Ahmadinajad is not an evil repressive dictator unworthy and undeserving of any respect at all. Far from it.
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #8
29. Did you even read the article(s) I referred to in my OP? n/t
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
9. Has anyone on the thread actually read the OP
Because it's really worth it. This is brilliant analysis.
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #9
25. From many of the responses, it doesn't appear that they read the articles I posted. n/t
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toddaa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #9
26. You're funny
Asking DUers to read a long, in depth article on the US Middle East foreign policy. Good one.
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #26
44. lol. But I wish people had. n/t
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
10. Why are we not allowed to call bush EVIL or HITLER?
damn! bush has a way, way, WAY higher body count than this guy!

:eyes:
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. You're kidding right?
Edited on Mon Sep-24-07 08:07 PM by cali
You don't get out on the web much or something.
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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #10
30. Does Bush execute gays, including very young ones?
Does he actively deny the Holocaust and persecute and repress Jews? Does he impose strict Sharia law on EVERYONE, (which includes little things like, say, stoning petty thieves) with strict consequences for the slightest failure to comply? Does he force all women to wear head-to-toe veils at all times, have women who were raped stoned, and are women here treated like ninth-class citizens, unable to even go out in public without a male escort? Is he an absolute dictator? I could go on and on, but what's the point? You obviously don't get out much.

Once again, just because someone shares our feelings about Bush doesn't automatically mean they're a good guy. And once again, he was one of those who took over the American embassy and held our own citizens hostage for over a year; he's as much of a nutball hardliner now as he was then, if not even more so now.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 05:05 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. nope
that only happens in countries he attacks and occupies with US forces like say....

AFGHANISTAN AND IRAQ!

:eyes:
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #30
41. Uh, yes.
Bush has murdered some 120,000 homosexuals, many of them children.
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Peregrine Took Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 08:07 PM
Response to Original message
14. We must have our "boogy men" - how else could our authoritarian overlords
"protect" us?
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Crabby Appleton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 08:13 PM
Response to Original message
15. Does this qualify as evil?
Warning - graphic pictures at link

http://www.sodomylaws.org/world/iran/iran.htm
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MisterHowdy Donating Member (295 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 08:15 PM
Response to Original message
16. Pointing out Ahmadinejad's evil is a drumbeat for war.
He is evil, I agree with that.

But why is this being pointed out to us just now?
Why just Ahmadinejad, there are so many other world leaders that are "evil"

Remember when Hussein's evil was pointed out to us,
remember what happened after that.




TO THE GULLIBLE AMERICAN POPULACE - PLEASE!!!!!!!! NO MORE WARS!!!!!!!!
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #16
24. It all sounds so much like Iraq

Aren't we looking for WMD there too?

He is a "evil man, a terrorist, he hates us for our freedom etc. etc. etc." --- Huum, sounds like Bush to me and we allow him to control US every single DAY!

Look out Amerika, Cheney RULES. Their Mission is Accomplished!

Here we go with the Iraq/ Iran War.

Wake up Amerika!
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 05:26 AM
Response to Reply #16
33. try reading before commenting n/t
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IndianaJones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 08:40 PM
Response to Original message
18. he is. nt.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 08:43 PM
Response to Original message
19. k&r
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 08:47 PM
Response to Original message
20. Kick
:kick:
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The Count Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
21. The attacks are for all the wrong reasons - like with Saddam. Not because he's a dictator
but because...our oil is under his country.
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Timex Donating Member (51 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
23. No more evil than Bush
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toddaa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 09:56 PM
Response to Original message
27. K&R, but the OP title isn't helping your cause
I read this back when it was first published and it is one of the most concise explanations of neocon foreign policy I've come across. Unfortunately, your title is going to lead to knee jerk reactions from people who don't take the time to read the article.
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. I know. My OP title does the articles little justice. I would hope most DUers could, however,
read beyond that.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 05:25 AM
Response to Original message
32. kick
if only I could r this again.
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #32
36. Thanks for the kick -- just wish more DUers had read the article I linked to.
I found the whole five-part series a must read.
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mhatrw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 05:38 AM
Response to Original message
35. Exactly!
I get on knees and pray that we don't get fooled again.

http://www.prwatch.org/books/tsigfy10.html

Wirthlin's job, Alsop explained, was "to identify the messages that really resonate emotionally with the American people." The theme that struck the deepest emotional chord, they discovered, was "the fact that Saddam Hussein was a madman who had committed atrocities even against his own people, and had tremendous power to do further damage, and he needed to be stopped."
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
37. They're preying upon the masses' fears and prejudices. n/t
Edited on Tue Sep-25-07 02:51 PM by Emit
edit typo
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 04:05 PM
Response to Original message
38. "...they played by the rules and were defeated..."
Edited on Wed Sep-26-07 04:07 PM by Emit
This part says a lot -- says a lot to me about how the politics of the left vs the right are now playing out.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
40. Then why aren't they portraying the Saudis as evil?
This is simplistic nonsense. Drop it.
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. Not simplistic at all.
The articles I linked to are well worth the read.
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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 04:18 PM
Response to Original message
43. And They're Doing A Good Job Of It.
Hell, look at all the people on D.U. falling for it. It's making my head spin. :crazy:
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