I am bigoted against intolerance,

[Tian Zhuangzhuang]

I cannot stay silent any longer.

I cannot claim that everyones viewpoint, culture, religion, ect has merit.

I feel like an old Tom Leher joke.

If the mayor of Jena wants to support white supremacy I want him to know he is no longer acceptable as a human being. He shouldn't hold public office. If he has a business it's charter should be revoked by the state. And good people everywhere should shun him and his kin. Simply staying silent isn't enough.

If our diplomatic visitor to New York wants to claim he has no gays then fine. First we need to clean our own house allow gays to serve openly in the military and marry. Then we should let the world know whether they are Iran, some African nation, or even Jamaica that until they embrace their gay brothers and sisters we simply don't want their products. we won't send food aid to their starving, we won't invite them to our cities.

We need to denounce the cultures that attack homosexuality much as we would those that embrace racism or eat dogs.

I feel we need to hate the intolerant till they see the errors of their ways.

I know I'm tired and frustrated by a world gone mad.

I am tired of bending over to accept other inferior backward cultures in gestures of apologia.

Sometimes it's good to say hey you homophobic bigot go FUCK YOURSELF.

[Catherine Vincent]

1. "...you homophobic bigot go FUCK YOURSELF."

And they probably have a hundred times already. :)

[tekisui]

2. Don't hate based on who one hates.....

just in case I'm misunderstood...:sarcasm:

[rucky]

5. Don't hate the hater, hate the hate. n/t

[BlooInBloo]

6. Whatever. Hate 'em all.

[rucky]

12. I see your "whatever" and raise you an eye roll. n/t

[BlooInBloo]

13. :)

[sandnsea]

3. Don't forget women

We are allies with countries who oppress their women and stone them to death.

[Tian Zhuangzhuang]

20. The real question is why?

I don't mean trade. I mean when a Saudi Prince comes to Belmont in NY to race his horse why don't Americans protest his presence, his horse and explain it is because of his policies at home. We make people like these much to comfortable in our country. We should use the power of disapproval, shunning, and boycott to help implement change.

[sandnsea]

21. Who do you wanna hate today!!

The corporatists have an agenda and 90% of the country doesn't see it, even as the world is passing us by with one of the biggest economic booms in history. The terrorists mess up the flow of the oil and money, that's all they care about. If they targeted homeless camps, nobody would care at all.

[Tian Zhuangzhuang]

22. I don't think this is about hate.

It is about social acceptance. I can't believe that a head of state can express such hatred against homosexuals, jews and woman and yet get defended that we haven't cleaned our own house or criticism of him is boorish behavior.

Frankly such backhanded defense of the man and his views disgusts me.

[sandnsea]

23. Why him and not others?

Because the hate is manufactured for the benefit of the controlling elites. You hate his boorish behavior, but not Saudi Arabia's, because you're told to. He won't share his oil.

[porphyrian]

4. Unfortunately, you usually can't hate someone into positive change.

Maybe it has happened before somewhere, but you usually just give them further justification to hate you and color your behavior as representative of whatever group you represent.

I'm not saying you shouldn't hate, just be aware of how it will be used against you.

[BlooInBloo]

7. Hell, once they're grown, it's pretty much a done deal. It's all about waiting for them to die...

... and quarantining their effect.

[porphyrian]

9. I fear that's usually the case. - n/t

[Tian Zhuangzhuang]

10. i respectfully disagree.

South Africa was an international pariah by the mid to late eighties. Boycotts and isolation helped bring about change.

This is more about speaking out then anything else.

If an elected official in the United States embraces racism he or she should be shunned, shouted and marginalized till they no longer hold a position of authority.


We should hold foreign cultures to a minimum level of decorum. No slavery, no racism, freedom for all their people.

We should publicly shun those that don't allow woman the right to vote or drive. That set brides on fire if their dowry is to small. That hang homosexuals for being homosexual.

I really don't think this is setting the bar all that high.

[porphyrian]

15. Boycotts and shunning aren't really hate.

I didn't say you can't stand up to hatred and bring change, I said you can't take, say, a greedy bride-burner, hate them and have them see the error in their ways because of it. They are more likely to use your actions to justify more of their hateful actions.

There are a number of ways to bring about positive change. Ghandi didn't employ hate at all. Using hate to defeat hate usually means something violent and ugly. You should just be prepared to accept the consequences if you feel such a thing is warranted.

I don't think we necessarily disagree, I just think we may have misunderstood each other.

[BlooInBloo]

17. Civil disobedience in general is not hate. Sheesh. MLK and Ghandi.

[Tian Zhuangzhuang]

24. Americans are often too nice.

How often do you hear everyone is entitled to an opinion.


Lets face it some opinions are empirically wrong. We do nobody any favors pretending otherwise.

[uppityperson]

29. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. What they do with it needs limiting though.

It would be nice if there were no nasty inhumane people, but there are and I think everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but their actions, what they do with those opinions, they are not entitled to free action.

[Tom Joad]

33. yeah, like yours is wrong. and racist itself.

"backward cultures" ... sounds like the ol' orientalist shit being regurgitated.

[Tian Zhuangzhuang]

42. So you are accusing a poster who's screen name is Tian Zhuangzhuang

of using the old orientalist shit..... And I'm racist?


Irony not your strong suit?

And yes some cultures are more backward than others whether we use observation or empirical evidence.

To think otherwise is ignorant and a bit silly. (You can travel just around the US and see cultures that work and cultures that don't.)

[Tom Joad]

32. hah, this nation is committing genocide in Iraq... and you talk of

"backward" foreign cultures? compared to what? Iran has done some terrible things, but the most violent government in the world is my own. (Just like ML King said 40 years ago)
oh man, sorry about your horse, but the hate and the chauvinism we can do without.

[cali]

8. I don't support punishing the starving because of the

policies of their gov't.

[Tian Zhuangzhuang]

19. If you feed the people

you often feed the government. It's not an easy choice but if a country comes to us for help and they practice slavery or genocide I think we should say no.

[orleans]

11. that's kind of how i feel for the last number of years. i have no tolerance

for intolerance.

[Vektor]

14. I feel ya...

Boy do I. K&R like nobody's business.

[libertypirate]

16. How does cutting people off give them an opportunity to change?

Change only can occur if confronted with the truth of what a person is?

However, their is a better antidote to this particular poison...

The more you think, hear, perceive something even about your own self the more it becomes true.

How do you think shitflower keeps preznut thinking he is making the correct choices? They keep their front mans ego driven by not allowing him to think, hear, perceive thoughts of doubt, and other thoughts like the potential for failure.

Keeping minds secluded is what keeps them capable of such hate... It is what keeps our delusioninchief telling everyone he's got the winning hand. You can't see it but he's got it...

[Tian Zhuangzhuang]

18. This isn't about cutting them off.

It's about being in their face.

It's about mocking them, cutting off their financial resources, and preventing them from engaging in polite society.


(The following is lighthearted sarcasm)


I say lets sick the Piranha Brothers on them.

Doug was the more feared of the two brothers. Luigi Vercotti, a pimp, claims to have seen grown men pull their own heads off rather than speak to Doug – indeed, even Dinsdale feared Doug. This was largely due to his merciless use of sarcasm, dramatic irony, metaphor, pathos, puns, parody, litotes and satire.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piranha_Brothers

[backscatter712]

30. Why bother trying to change them?

Bigots like that won't change. The whole point is to cut them off, remove them from society, ostracize them so we don't have to deal with them.

Fuck 'em.

[ruggerson]

25. Right on

make bigotry just out and out unacceptable.

k/r

[distantearlywarning]

26. I hear you. K&R. n/t

[fishwax]

27. is eating dogs worse than eating other animals?

or is their some other reason you're comparing it to racism and homophobia? :shrug:

We need to denounce the cultures that attack homosexuality much as we would those that embrace racism or eat dogs.

[Tian Zhuangzhuang]

38. Well yes it certainly is.

Dogs are pack animals that instinctively seek out humans as their alpha leader. Plus honestly most dogs I know are better than most people I know. I used eating dogs as an example because I know a lot of people who can pass bye 100 homeless in a month but pick up or help any stray dog they find.


Would you associate with a person who ate dogs?

[fishwax]

39. that still doesn't add up

Dogs are pack animals that instinctively seek out humans as their alpha leader.
That's neither true nor relevant. Certainly a human can become accepted as a member or leader of the pack (among domesticated dogs), but that's different from saying that dogs instinctively seek humans out for the role. Additionally, not all members of the Canidae family are domesticated. Some don't take kindly to humans at all.

Plus honestly most dogs I know are better than most people I know.
I don't doubt that, but it's not really relevant either. I know people who feel the same about horses--should we add those countries and cultures where horse meat isn't verboten to your list? Heck, some people will say the same thing about pigs (who can actually be pretty dang cuddly), but pork is a big seller here.

Of course, since our culture loves both pork and beef, other cultures might view us with the same disdain that you view other those who consume dog. So is it okay for them to hate us as well? :shrug:

I used eating dogs as an example because I know a lot of people who can pass bye 100 homeless in a month but pick up or help any stray dog they find.
That stems from the fact that we associate dogs with domestic dogs--our pets, our companions. Not every culture has a tradition of having dogs as pets.

Eating dogs is taboo here in the United States, but it isn't everywhere, and I certainly don't see it as akin to systemic racism or homophobia.

[stillcool]

28. Maybe the dude is gay?

I'm sick and tired of getting my hate on. I don't want to be filled with hatred and anger towards other human beings that I can't control...even George Bush, or the Pope. However...if I look at my life..I notice where change has occurred in me, and I can see that others led me, and others will follow. I guess I'm looking for progress..not perfection.

[Tom Joad]

31. thanks for bringing more hate into the world, it needs it so much.

A little more darkness is what the world needs, more willingness to hate, and its companion -- war.

[Tian Zhuangzhuang]

37. It's not about hate it is about accepting the unacceptable.

Let me give you an example from my past.

I had a friend who was quite a looker and we were fuck buddies. Nothing too serious we would hang out when in the mood or between going out with others. She was a pretty decent person and the sex was excellent. There was one problem she had a dog named Nigger.

Not let this sink in for a minute.

She got the dog after I knew her for a while from her piece of shit father who couldn't bring it to his new apartment. So one night she introduces me to the dog. For the next two weeks we hang out but every time she called the dogs name it was like nails on the chalkboard of my soul.

I got a lot out of my friendship with her. But the dog was a breaking point. I couldn't be with a person no matter how casual who saw nothing wong with calling a dog Nigger.

I told her that and stuck to my guns. I stopped being her friend because of her intolerance.

My friendship is a gift.

It isn't about hate it's about setting boundaries with the people you deal with every day. I wouldn't hire a bigot or rent to one I certainly am not going to sleep with one.

Maybe she will think about that maybe not but I have to stay true to myself.

[Odin2005]

34. "Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance..

...even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. — In this formulation, I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be unwise. But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols. We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant. We should claim that any movement preaching intolerance places itself outside the law, and we should consider incitement to intolerance and persecution as criminal, in the same way as we should consider incitement to murder, or to kidnapping, or to the revival of the slave trade, as criminal."

--Sir Karl Popper.

[Tom Joad]

35. any nation that hordes a vast nuclear arsenal should be shunned from polite society.

[Prophet 451]

36. Right there with you

I'm not sure where the idea got started that being "tolerant" means you must tolerate the intolerant. I reckon it was one of those "gitcha" right-wing talking points, a way of accusing liberals of having no morals by saying we'd tolerate everything except intolerance. Like the schoolkid going "Nyah, you're not so tolerant after all".

Fuck that shit. That's just playing word games. That's just trying to excuse their own bigotry by painting us up to be bigots too, it's bullshit. It does nothing to address the problem, just tries to pretend it's not a problem in the first place.

I'm no fan of the diplomatic visitor with the unspellable surname but I reserve the right to hate Bush as well. I'm not going to choose between Hitler and Stalin, that's a fool's bargain. The only appropriate response is "a pox on both their houses".

I suffer from clinical depression. I like my hatred (although I prefer to say "anger"), it keeps me level, it let's me drown out my self-hatred with fury. That's a dangerous way of coping, I know but I find the rage sustaining. If teh world runs out of racism and homophobia to be angry about, then I'll move onto poverty and if that ends, I'll move onto something else. Clinical depression (MDD in the States) is often an excercise in finding ways to put off suicide one day at a time. Sounds crazy but mine is that I'm too pissed off to die yet.

[pampango]

40. If you hate people who hate people, what do you see in the mirror? n/t

[Tian Zhuangzhuang]

41. Somebody who stands for something

Someone who will not tolerate intolerance.

Simply put I'm willing to sacrifice the easy road for my beliefs in the hope others do the same and the harder road becomes easier over time.