Job security, retirement with dignity

[question everything]

and not to worry about medical bills or other bills while we retire.

I could not help thinking about it that, yes, most of us would like this when I listened to a GM striker on the evening news.

And I could not help wondering why should one group of people demand what the rest of us can only wish.

I have a lot of respect for Union. Without Union, what we are now taking for granted: child labor laws, paid sick days and vacations, over time pay, employer-provided "benefits" - would have never come to pass.

But we have them now and they are the norm - more or less - of most employers. Even the benefits - we have moved from pension to 401Ks and many of us would like to remove employers from our health care, too.

We also know that non unionized workers build Japanese cars in other parts of the country and, from what DUers posted here when I asked, they are happy with their jobs.

I have to wonder of whether this strike might just point to the anachronism of unions. Because what that GM striker said, and, no doubt, many have and will, is something that most of us - salaried employees - encounter but we do not have any union to fight for us. And this is true for both managers and line employees.

OK, start flaming.

[midnight]

1. Question everything. Catching little name. I agree with your

statements here. Especially the fact that many want to move healthcare away from our jobs.

[rusty quoin]

2. I have worked with people who have said (this is in Pittsburgh)

that you have not been in a union, so you do not know what it's like. I moved to California, and worked with people making $30/hr. union, but I was not union, making much less. I always thought that a union gave a worker representation, which any company has. I always thought that working for a company was an agreement, and why not have representation. I know that unions did go too far. But look at how companies have gone too far. I was always right. A worker, just like anyone, needs professional representation.

[question everything]

4. Yes, it would be nice

however most employers would not go for it, especially small business. In addition we have moved a long way from the 40s and 50s when we were an industrial nation with many working for large manufacturing companies to being a service-based economy. For example, one would not think that computer programmers and software engineers would need a union to represent them, yet they are the ones whose jobs were shipped to India.

[eagler]

3. I only see how far this country has sunken since unions are no longer a major

political force.It is because of that political force that we have many of our protections today.

[Tunkamerica]

5. So if you feel like you aren't represented....

then organize. Unions didn't just spring up. They came from disenfranchised workers banding together for a common goal. If you work somewhere and you're not being treated fairly, and your co-workers agree then talk to them. Maybe they have the same issues. Management likes to tell you that you shouldn't discuss certain things with your coworkers because it might make someone uncomfortable or "it's none of their businesss"; but if everyone at your job is underpaid and you all know that you're all underpaid then a united front can only help.

Your argument that because you're not in a union then they must be anachronistic is a flawed argument. If you want a union then start one. If you don't need one, then \don't.

full disclosure:from NC anti-union state but worked with IATSE for a few months, and generally think unions are a good thing; especially when guys are holding your helth and safety in their hands literally and the choice is union with rules and insurance or non-union with no real rules and no insurance and lower pay.

[question everything]

7. "They came from disenfranchised workers"

and this is the point.

As a professional I have never considered myself disenfranchised, neither were the engineers and the software programmers, the sales and marketing people that were my co-workers. But at some point the corporation decided to change direction, or it the industry was at the bottom of the cycle, or the same functions were performed better in the south or off shores, and we were "let go."

Yes, Union started to protect the jobs of the disenfranchised against the monolith of big corporations in a manufacturing background.

But times have changed. Our economy is 2/3 service based and no one has job security any more, not even CEOs (though they do have their golden parachutes). Most states allows employers to fire someone at will, for no cause, not to mention someone who smokes in private.. can over weight and eating red meat be far behind?

The American car industry is facing serious challenges. Personally we have been keeping our cars for more than 10 years, so American cars were not in our household, though I tried, in 1979 at the height of that gas shortage.

Many industries have come and gone, adjusted. Travel agencies come to mind right now, for example.

So why should employees of GM and Ford be the only ones in the country with guaranteed job security, decent retirement and health care benefits?

I have to wonder how many of GM employees support universal health plan seeing that what they have had was pretty good. How many would support dignified retirement and access to health care to all of us.

[question everything]

8. More about disenfranchised workers

I wanted to include in my reply: yes, there are disenfranchised workers, they are the ones in the service industry making the minimum wage. And they are the ones that could benefit from representation. However most of us would not consider GM and Ford workers to be disenfranchised workers.

[Tunkamerica]

15. um...because of the unions

who knows what our country would look like without organized labor, or the threat of organization

[mvccd1000]

6. Interesting points, question everything

I personally believe that the best job security is to stay on top of training for your job, and be the best at it. I also take responsibility for my own retirement.

I worked as a contractor at GM for about seven years. During that time, the UAW tried to organize our facility three times. Three times they were overwhelmingly voted down. Too many of us had to deal with "sister facilities" that were UAW-represented, and the quality of their work was simply dismal. We were well-taken care of, and took a great deal of pride in our work. I guess no one believed either of those things would continue if we let the UAW in.

I think unions served a great purpose during the decades that America was becoming a manufacturing powerhouse, but I think those days are over. Most companies these days realize they get a lot more productivity by taking care of their workers than they do by dominating them. (See Google; one of the rising stars of the entire world, which treats its employees better than family.)

[Skittles]

12. LOL

are you kidding? In my industry staying on top of your training and wokring hard means NOTHING. If they can pimp off your job to the lowest bidder overseas that is exactly what they'll do. And no thanks, I do not want to be a war profiteer. :puke:

[Perseid]

13. Wow

I will have to think for a minute or two before completely dissecting this

[Skittles]

14. don't bother

troll

[mvccd1000]

17. Thanks, Skittles...

... I guess my life's experiences are all false? I did post first-hand, factual information here.

I'm sorry that you picked an industry that does not value your skills. In most industries, keeping on top of your job will result in keeping your job.

[B Calm]

18. Have you ever wondered why cheap labor republicans hate unions?

They know that when labor sticks together, wages and benefits go up!

[Manifestor_of_Light]

9. Wobblies.

The Wobblies (I.W.W.) have been organizing Starbucks workers in NYC with some success.

[Book Lover]

10. You don't have respect for unions. You have jealousy.

You ask, "{W}hy should one group of people demand what the rest of us can only wish{?}"

Because they can. Because they have done so sucessfully in the past. Because they are there for that purpose.

If you want the benefits that unions bring, start researching and organizing; maybe it would be a great fit for you and your industry. Until then, quit bellyaching.

[Perseid]

11. this sentence is not correct

"But we have them now and they are the norm - more or less - of most employers."

not even close

[PDenton]

16. Unions aren't always anachronistic

And there's no reason that more jobs couldn't be unionized.

However, if UAW doesn't watch how they deal with GM, they will find both themselves and GM are the losers. I don't think union autoworkers really appreciate always how generous their benefits really are.