Why can't GM just fire the striking workers?

[raccoon]

Yall help me out on this. Having lived all my life in a so-called "right to work" state, where "employee rights" are an oxymoron, I've never understood this.

[madokie]

1. trust me they would love to but thats one of the perks of being a union member

in a union shop. the unions are the best thing to happen to the working man ever. Oh they didn't just happen either they had to be made to happen, big diff

[Subdivisions]

2. One word: Contract.

GM has contracted for labor from the UAW.

UAW workers are highly trained and specialized tradespeople who have completed at least 4 years of apprenticeship training. They cannot easily be replaced by the average Joe off the street.

Because GM is under contract with the UAW, they cannot fire the UAW workers.

[TX-RAT]

29. But they can just shut the doors.

Reopen in another state?

[WinkyDink]

31. Do ya think GM big-wigs haven't thought of that?

[rateyes]

3. I don't know Michigan law, but I don't think it's

a "right to work" state. And, I don't think that GM can afford to hire scabs, train them all, and get back up to the production levels they need. Plus, any scab crossing a picket line is pretty much asking for a helluva lot of trouble.

I used to live in Southwest Virginia...and, Union Coalminers, in that "right to work state" are an intimidating bunch....crossing a picket line isn't worth what happens to scabs.

[madokie]

4. and Scabs are what they are called for a reason

we need more unions not less, huh

[rateyes]

8. Yes, we do....

and "company" folk have benefitted from Unions, too.

[BridgeTheGap]

11. Unions helped raise the standard of living for all workers

not just their members.

[BridgeTheGap]

12. I worked at a General Electric plant with an open shop

- Union membership in the IUE was optional. I joined out of principle.
My dad and uncle worked there before they had a union and said that GE management treated workers like shit. They organized their way into the IUE and changed things.
Occassionaly a "wildcat" strike would be called and non-union members would cross the picket line to work. One guy who worked near me "scabbed." When the strike was over and everyone was back at work, the "scab" found a shit sandwich in his lunch sack.

[madokie]

13. America has benefited from Unions, all of us

whether one is union or not

[DemReadingDU]

19. Very true

for starters: unions fought for the basic 40-hour work week and job safety.

[Virginia Dare]

38. And those things won't just fall back into our laps..

if and when major unions ever disappear for good.

[Freddie Stubbs]

9. You can't fire striking workers in a right to work state either

"Right to work" simply means that employees cannot be compelled to join or pay dues to a union.

[rateyes]

10. But, companies, as I understand it, can hire

replacement workers, and let Union members go, laying them off, after the strike is settled, by saying, "we don't have the work for you to do."

[Clark2008]

40. Not if they're under contract.

That would be a breach of contract in ANY state.

[zbdent]

27. and as I understand it ... the union will also protect the non-union workers

if there is a complaint filed (which means that the non-unioners get benefits of the union for free ... sound Repuklican ...) ... the union just might drag their heels on "rushing" to the non-unioner's defense ...

[YOY]

21. Scabs get trouble, Corporate Scabs get BIG trouble

Railroad Workers' Union got wind that someone in management thought it would be a good idea to outsource the dining car in an Amtrak Acela train to a major coffee chain (one you see everywhere.)

They were greeted by the RWU. Ambulances were called shortly afterward.

I felt for the poor scabs because the executives (both ours and the coffee chain's) should have been given the trip to the hospital.

The message had been sent regardless.

If office drones would ever unionize then the executive would quake. That will never happen. Unions get bad raps (sometimes they deserve it though...)

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

5. You should probably pose that question in this forum:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=367

MKJ

[BadgerLaw2010]

6. Contract, and difficult to replace to the point of being impractical.

You can't pull people who are non-UAW in off the street and have them take over all the jobs that are not currently being done up and down the line. They wouldn't be trained, so your productivity would be terrible and it would be dangerous as well in some cases.

It's not quite as extreme as the West Coast longshoreman strike because it's not as physically dangerous for rookies, but it's still not practical to replace this many skilled strikers.

[bluestateguy]

7. I don't think that's allowed in union shop states

if the workers are unionized and carry out the strike according to standard procedures.

[Gman]

14. The National Labor Relations Act prohibits firing strking workers

however, they can legally be "replaced" which amounts to about the same thing. If GM wants to put theirselves completely out of business, then that's the way to go.

[WinkyDink]

34. Unless your name is Ronald Reagan. And STILL Blue-collar America loved him.

[Gman]

35. Technically

PATCO, as well as other government employee unions, are not covered by the NLRA so they can be legally fired if they strike.

[Tesha]

15. GM may simply off-shore all the work the strikers used to do.

GM is already pretty far down that road as it is.

Tesha

[papau]

17. true - 350,000 workers in union from GM in late 90's is now only 70,000 as they offshore n/t

n/t

[Blue_Tires]

39. very true

one of the worst-kept GM secrets is the transferring of more and more operations to Asia

[KharmaTrain]

16. Do Some Studying....

Sure GM could bring in scabs and they just put gasoline on their own problems.

Many of these UAW jobs are skilled positions...getting someone to replace those on the line would take time and money...more expense than what they're worth.

Attempts at busting the strike would encourage more unions to honor the pickets...and all but rip apart towns that rely on the auto industry...not just Detroit but many other cities as well. This country hasn't had a major labor strike in decades...might be time they finally take a stand. I saw yesterday's press conference and recalled the days when Walter Reuther ran the UAW...he would have never put up with the shit the unions gave to GM...and here's hoping his spirit is with and inside the union and its workers.

Lastly, I'd invite you to read up on the Inland Steel strike of 1937...where scabs were brought in to break a strike and ended up with several dead and a black eye on the steel industry it still lives with today.

My bets are GM is gonna threaten to close more plants, try to wait the strikers out (Catepillar has done this effectively)...using their foreign subsidiaries to make up for shortfalls. And with the worst regime ever, labor should be prepared for a long, difficult fight.

I stand with the UAW!!

[papau]

18. wages last 6 years are less than 2000 so pressure is on unions as GM runs off

2 months worth of inventory, and waits for a contract that does not guarantee jobs or prohibit offshoring of jobs - this will be a tough strike.

[KharmaTrain]

20. GM Saw This Coming

This almost reminds me of the 60s...when Reuther would pick one of the big three to negotiate with and wouldn't stand down. Over the past 25 years, unions have been pushed to "compromise" or "give back" to keep their companies "competitive", yet has the quality really improved?

I've known many union people...my father worked as a physician for several unions and we many of his patients have to either scale back care or forgo it altogether as their health benefits were cut or pensions were raided to "save the company". It wasn't just wages, but the entire quality of life that has suffered for many union workers...and with their waning power, all American jobs.

Yep, this will be a tough strike and I hope the union can stand up to what is sure to be a corporate media attack (another industry that has all but gutted its unions) of how GM workers are "unpatriotic" and how they're forcing more "jobs offshore"...despite GM's long running policy of using foreign labor and outsourcing that has turned places like Detroit, Flint and other "rust belt" cities into ghost towns.

[papau]

25. I agree - it does feel like the 60's - I have my fingers crossed for the union. n/t

n/t

[LiberalFighter]

24. If anyone has experience as a new hire or as summer help

they know the difficulties in doing the job and doing it right. A big difference between a person who has been on the job for months even years is that the long term doesn't work up a sweat and performs the job with ease. While a new hire or summer help will in many situations be dripping with sweat and barely able to keep up with the speed of the line. They won't sweat as much in plants with AC.

New hire and summer help are given a reasonable amount of time to learn the job before they are left to their own. Plant managers don't allow mass in-plant transfers or mass transfers from plant to plant. It totally disrupts the production.

They are not skilled trades such as electricians, plumbers, etc. But they have specific knowledge and skills critical for production operation. They have learned the ins and outs to make the operation run smoothly. Many times due to injury on the job, vacation, and other reasons an employee not on the job creates havoc. If there isn't enough manpower to fill all the positions within a department it requires management to fill in. And generally it may require 2, 3 or more to do one job.

One of the difficulties in production is the number of options available on a vehicle. That includes different colors and other factors. The operator has to know the codes used for those options and parts for their job. And they have to know how to install the parts without breaking if they are breakable.

[Virginia Dare]

37. Agreed, this is the line in the sand..

GM is trying to break the union once and for all. Very troubling to say the least.

[Ganja Ninja]

22. Here's one reason.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1898890

Like the saying goes, united we stand, divided we fall.

[Connonym]

23. You'd think certainly after the last 7 years of republican control of the world

they'd have figured out a way to make unions illegal. Sheesh. I'd love to see them try, maybe it would force Americans to grow a fucking spine again and learn to stand up for what's right instead of sitting down for American Idol.

[Tesha]

42. Why make them illegal when you can quietly make them irrelevant?

The Republicans often don't directly legislate for
their desired goal; look at abortion. They'll probably
never actually ban abortion, they'll just make it
impossible for anyone to actually get an abortion.

Same with unions. They keep eating away at the margins
of the rights that trade unions were provided and moving
manufacturing out of union-strong areas. Eventually,
rade unionism will be legal but completely irrelevant
to anyone's actual life.

Tesha

[madrchsod]

26. would you buy a gm product built by a temp worker?

gm has enough trouble getting a quality product out the door. they have a lot of inventory to get rid of before crunch time.

[2rth2pwr]

28. Would you buy a GM product built by a union worker?

GM's market share has plummeted.

[WinkyDink]

32. Do Union workers decide on the engineering and design of GM cars?

Or the marketing? Or the price-points? Or....You get my drift.

And is the CEO suffering financially over that "loss of market share"? I don't think so.

[madrchsod]

36. yes---- the american worker are the best in the world

when we are given the tools to do the job. after all the best consumer cars in the world are built right here in america

[lonestarnot]

30. And let the scabs come in for less money, less benefits and more outsourcing.

Cute. :eyes: UNION YES!

[WinkyDink]

33. It's what summarizes the Republican (and perhaps Libertarian) approach to labor: "There's always

somebody who will work for less."

[Swede]

41. Solidarity