Reading material for the Ahmadinejad fans

[SoxFan]

Here's a little required reading for those of you who find Leisure Suit Larry's schtick amusing, clever, or noble.


Iran: Jailed Students Abused to Obtain Forced Confessions
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2007/07/27/iran16512.htm

Iran: Detained Students at Risk of Torture
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2007/06/21/iran16235.htm

Iran Leads the World in Executing Children
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2007/06/20/iran16211.htm

Iran: National Security Laws Used to Jail Women’s Rights Activists
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2007/04/27/iran15777.htm

Iran: Women on Trial for Peaceful Demonstration
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2007/02/27/iran15416.htm

Iran: Prosecute Torturers, Not Bloggers
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2006/12/12/iran14824.htm

Iran: Halt Execution of Ethnic Arabs After Secret Trial
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2006/11/11/iran14560.htm

Iran: End Ban on Access to Higher Education
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2006/10/19/iran14406.htm

[IndianaJones]

1. why do you support attacking Iran? nt.

[monktonman]

2. look at the handle. n/t

[Atman]

8. Exactly. WTF? We need another meaningless war right now? Or EVER?

I just don't get these DUers who can't separate the issue of Ahmadinejad "badness" from the very obvious ratcheting up for another war. A war whose consequences may well make the Iraq fiasco look like Cheney's fabled "cake walk."

Okay, OP, okay, we know! He's a bad man. Everyone gets it. But as IndianaJones ask, why do you support attacking Iran? Isn't there enough death for you now?

.

[Kelly Rupert]

Opposing Ahmadinejad is not the same as supporting an attack on Iran.

I oppose President Bush. I would not support a foreign attack on America.

[againes654]

3. I am NOT a fan of Ahmadinejad

but I am a HUGE fan of free speech. We know this guy is a murderous evil man, but allowing him to speak does NOT mean one is a fan either. Why does it have to be one or the other??

[bryant69]

5. I think there are a range of responses to that asshole Ahmadinejad

It's entirely possible to think that he is an asshole while also allowing him to speak. On the other hand see above, where criticizing that Asshole Ahmadinejad is tantemont to wanting to invade Iran.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[BlooInBloo]

9. It's good to make it explicit, and not leave the reader guessing.

[bryant69]

11. So everytime anybone criticizes that asshole they should be clear on not invading Iran? n/t

[BlooInBloo]

19. When they're in "teach DUers a lesson" mode, it's not a bad idea....

... It's their choice, of course, if they want to leave it ambiguous, and invite the reader's to make mistakes, that is of course their right.

Don't write so that you can be understood, write so that you cannot be misunderstood.
WVO Quine

[yardwork]

40. Apparently so. Apparently we have entered a parallel DU universe.

A pod website took over the old DU and we are now living in the new, pod-person DU. In this DU, referencing any fact related to Iran's human rights record is equivalent to demanding immediate invasion of their country. Oh, and we're falling for Dick Cheney's lies, too.

[Mass]

4. Who is a fan of him?

But using him as a bogeyman in order to support an attack on Iran is a bad idea!

[Richardo]

7. Where's the support for an attack?

:shrug:

[SoxFan]

10. Who said anything about attacking Iran?

I agree with Obama, Clinton, Richardson, and Biden...don't attack, but keep the use of (non-nuclear) force on the table as an absolute-last-resort option.

[Mass]

12. Who is a fan of him? I have not seen a lot of them here.

[yardwork]

41. I've seen a number of posts with highly complimentary comments.

He's been described as a "gentleman," and "academic," "intelligent," "gracious," "not really opposed to homosexuality," "not really a Holocaust deniar," and so forth. Some of these descriptions sound highly complimentary.

In contrast, anyone whose pointed out his human rights record is told that we are "pounding the drums of war!!!!" and "falling for Dick Cheney's tricks."

Apparently it is impossible lately to be both (1) disapproving of a leader with a very deficient human rights record and simultaneously (2) opposed to invasions or war of any kind. Silly me. I always thought that those two views were rather complementary. I guess I'll just send another check to Amnesty International.

[Warren DeMontague]

45. 23% of the respondents in this poll SELF-identified as, quote, "fans" of Ahmadinejad

So, in answer to the implied question in your post, apparently he has a few "fans" here. No, I don't know what the fuck they're thinking.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1901239

In contrast, I have seen ZERO people here advocating war with Iran.

[thoughtanarchist]

6. Are you advocating military aggression against Iran?

Just askin'

Is it possible to try to bring things into a rational perspective without being a "fan"?

"If Ahmedinejad's views on the Holocaust are not being used as propaganda fodder for an attack against Iran, then I don't care. Condemn him all you want. He's earned it. But if this is being used - as we all know it is - to build a new boogeyman in the Middle East, then it is dangerous folly." -- Cenk Uygur

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=103&topic_id=309881

[SoxFan]

15. Not advocating an attack

My stance is the same as that of Obama, Biden, Clinton, Richardson, etc, which is no attack, but keep the use of non-nuclear force on the table as an option of last resort.

My anger is directed at people who seem to get the warm and fuzzies for any tin-pot tyrant who flips the bird at the Bush administration. Bush and Co. are, without a doubt, a collection of inept and often amoral clowns, but we need to remember that the likes of the Iranian regime are foul beyond words.

[Mass]

16. Who are they? Because I have not met a lot of them on DU.

I have met some people who object that he is made the bogeyman for anti-Iranian feelings while he does not play a big role in decision-making in Iran.

I have trouble understanding the meaning of your post, as I somehow doubt the man has a lot of fan here.

[thoughtanarchist]

18. Where are they? And do you advocate the Lieberman amendment?

"My anger is directed at people who seem to get the warm and fuzzies for any tin-pot tyrant who flips the bird at the Bush administration."

I don't see any of these people in this thread. Are you sure they exist?

Regardless, I think the Lieberman amendment is a VERY BAD IDEA and it sets the wrong tone and could be a dangerous slippery slope.

Are you in favor if the Lieberman amendment?

[atreides1]

23. Tin-pot Tyrants are America's Friends, Well Some Are

I find it rather amusing to watch any tin-pot tyrant flipping the bird at their wanna be American counterpart, and while the Iranian regime is foul, it isn't the only one that is. Let's not forget our "friends" in Saudi Arabia who provided at least 15 of the 19 men
who crashed those planes on 9/11, or the military dictator in Pakistan who likes being the president, but still wants to keep wearing his soldier suit!

Then there are those other dictators of former Soviet satellites that also have foul regimes, so you see Iran isn't the only regime that is foul beyond words, a good portion of those that fit your description are our "friends and allies".

[mike_c]

13. with all due respect....

I presume you know that most of the events you've described have little or nothing to do with Ahmadinejad-- rather, they're the product of conflict between Muslim theocrats (which Ahmadinejad supports, to be fair, BUT DOES NOT DIRECT), post-revolutionary institutions in Iran, and secular moderates. Ahmadinejad actually has relatively little authority over those groups.

It's tempting to make Ahmadinejad the scapegoat for all that *we* don't like about life in Iran. I think that is a mistake too many Americans make, in too many foreign policy contexts.

[monktonman]

22. Couldnt have said it better myself n/t

[Hell Hath No Fury]

33. Thanks for that reminder.

Ahmadinejad doesn't exist in a vaccum. Context is everything.

But we Americans like our "heros" and "villians" clear cut -- two men facing each other, one in a white hat and one in a black hat.

Nice and simple, easy to understand.

[american_typeculture]

14. Means nothing.

For every article you post I could post a similar article about the U.S. of A.

[CJCRANE]

17. He's a bad man

and he'll get what's coming to him.

But any attack on Iran will be merely to enrich and empower the Bushco/Halliburton types in Dubai and other tax havens and have nothing to do with freedom or human rights. And it will only serve to further drain the US treasury and weaken America. If you want to buy into that, go ahead.

[Jed Dilligan]

20. .

America: Jailed Youth Abused to Obtain Forced Confessions
America: Detained Youth at Risk of Torture, Rape, Murder
America: Leads the Developed World in Incarcerating People
America: National Security Laws Used to Jail All Kinds of Activists
America: Women tased and maimed for peaceful demonstration
America: Prosecute torturers, not pot smokers
America: Halt Execution of Arabs after No Trial At All
America: End lack of access to any meaningful education

[distantearlywarning]

24. Tu Quoque.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque

Look it up, read it, use it.

[Jed Dilligan]

28. Whatever--I'm not debating,

just pointing out the folly of looking at other people's problems instead of our own.

[distantearlywarning]

36. I see.

Sounds like an excuse for poor logic to me.

"I'm not irrational, I'm just 'not debating'"

[Jed Dilligan]

44. I get fed up with the petty logicians here

"Ha! Gotcha! Never mind the fact that you're right--you don't argue according to the rules, so I'm right!"

[mmonk]

21. I smell straw.

[sinkingfeeling]

25. From the same site of your documents, there are 74 pages for the USA.

Some examples:

Extraordinary Rendition, Extraterritorial Detention, and Treatment of Detainees: Restoring Our Moral Credibility and Strengthening Our Diplomatic Standing
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2007/07/26/usint16514.htm

Keep Mentally Ill out of Solitary Confinement
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2007/07/20/usdom16442.htm

US: Presidential Order Affirms CIA Secret Detentions
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2007/07/20/usdom16444.htm

Iraqi Refugees' Plight Grows as U.S. Dawdles
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2007/06/13/usint16173.htm

U.S. Misleading on Cluster Munitions
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2003/04/25/usint5797.htm

There are no utopias, just people, like us, wanting to make a better world. And people, like us, exist all over the planet.

[distantearlywarning]

37. Once again...Tu Quoque

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque

Look it up, read it, use it.

Or are you "not debating" also?

[NaturalHigh]

26. You're a bad, bad person for posting this.

If Ahmadinejad were really a bad guy, would Columbia have invited him to speak? :shrug:

Just kidding. Ahmadinejad is an asshole. I don't understand how he got so many supporters at DU.

[LynneSin]

27. Next thing I know you'll be posting a demand for all receipts to be monitored

:hide:

[SoxFan]

35. ;)

:spank:

[Crabby Appleton]

29. or this

warning - graphic pictures

http://www.sodomylaws.org/world/iran/iran.htm

[Enrique]

30. what ahmedinejad fans?

show me these fans.

[distantearlywarning]

38. Read some of the other threads.

There are links posted in several places to threads where people call him "attractive" and suggest that he has some good ideas.

I'm sure that the people who have already answered the claim you just made about 15 times already are tired of posting the set of links. Look it up for yourself.

[Prophet 451]

31. What fans?

I don't think I've seen anyone on DU who actively supports the man. Most seem to agree he's a brutal nutcase and a tyrant (albeit not yet technically a dictator). We just don't think that in itself is sufficient reason to declare war on his country (the citizens of which are mostly innocent).

[progressoid]

32. Huh? I haven't seen any fans of him.

[Warren DeMontague]

46. I dunno, maybe they mean "fan" like the thing that blows air around the room

But I don't think so.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1901239

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

34. Some DUers say they love Hitler.

Isn't DU horrible?

[PDenton]

39. This debate is important, BUT

You know the US is in the same Axis of Evil as Iran? The US executes youthful offenders just like Iran? The US has thousands of kids sentenced to life in prison, despite signing an international treaty forbidding it?

Truely what we are seeing is two schoolyard bullies butting heads and wrestling in the playground. Nobody thinks Iran is full of flowery fields and dancing, singing children. It is just amusing to see somebody finally step up and call Bush's bluff.

[distantearlywarning]

43. Some people do think that (flowers and singing children)

Some poster posted a whole thread full of pictures here yesterday with all these nice things about Iran. One of the pics had a picture of a woman with her hair partially uncovered, and the poster had added, "No Women's Repression Here!" or something similar (I'm paraphrasing, but the intent was the same).

If you just read that thread, you probably WOULD think that life in Iran was all puppies and sunshine.

As far as Ahmadinejad calling Bush's bluff, well, I agree - that is funny.

[CJCRANE]

42. Put your money

where your mouth is and join Amnesty International.

Here is their Middle East campaign page:

http://web.amnesty.org/library/eng-2md/index

[Yael]

47. Thank you

Maybe *some* people will see this for what it is -- and isn't. Loathing this man has nothing to do with supporting war.

2 + 2 does NOT equal 7 -- even though the frothing-at-the-mouth masses want it to.