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An unprovoked attack on Iran is insane and should br prevented at any cost

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MrScorpio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 12:45 PM
Original message
An unprovoked attack on Iran is insane and should br prevented at any cost
As far as Ahmadinejad is concerned, of course he's a nutjob, any fool can see that. But does his utter nuttiness warrant a war? Absolutely not.

There are proper and internationally recognized venues for dealing with regimes that abuse their citizens... Unprovoked war is never one of them.

When someone agrees with the US using unprovoked military force against Iran, even if to curb human rights abuses in Iran, they are falling into the trap of condoning the Bush administration's efforts to start another war. Be very sure, that whatever the Administration's motives are, NONE of them have anything to do with promoting human rights. If Bush was truly sincere about dealing with Iran in a proper fashion, the last thing he would do is prime this country for another war. Yes, Ahmadinejad seems to be a character sent straight out of Central Casting for our amusement and disdain... But in fact, he's only a distraction.

This is why Bush is using the same contrived "threats" that were the catalyst for attacking Iraq and overthrowing Hussein's regime. The Neo Cons' dreams of establishing a Middle East region under American political control and subservience to corporate exploitation are still extant... Believe that.

Instead, WE are looking more like a Nazi Germany in 1939, provoking attacks on its neighbors, instead of a United States which has always advocated the use of international institutions to convince rogue regimes to adhere to established standards of moral decency. Frankly, no one should be surprised, given his track record, that Bush has nothing but utter contempt for the Rule of Law. His only guidepost is the same used by all tyrants... The obtainment of unchecked power.

That is why the real reason Bush wants another war is so that he can have ADDED LEVERAGE OVER YOU!

More regressive policies... More national security state tactics... More religious intolerance... More Corporate pandering (Fascism with an American face)... Continued dead lock on the reigns of government.

Those good-intentioned folks advocating an assault on the Iranian regime for its crimes, with Ahmadinejad as an excellent scapegoat, are falling into Bush's rabbit hole of insanity and thereby adding fuel to the administration's machine of repression and a ubiquitous grab for power.

That's why, just as the last war, a new war against Iran is ultimately about internal American political maneuvering and less about external threats to our security.

This country has fallen for supporting Bush's aggression and has paid the price quite dearly.

Only a complete fool would allow his or herself to be duped into supporting further aggression... Especially knowing the outcome of the current circumstances in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I was suspicious of Bush's modus operandi in Afghanistan, utterly disdainful of his attack on Iraq, and completely horrified by the current set of mechanizations gearing us up for an attack on Iran.

Any thinking person with a conscience would feel the same way.










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BrklynLib at work Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
1. Absolutely true. Is he crazier than Kim Jong Il?
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MrScorpio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. That is not the point
The crazy one that we have to deal with is our very own president.
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BrklynLib at work Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. You are absolulety right.....
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #10
32. Wasn't your point that
we don't drop bombs on North Korea?
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BrklynLib at work Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #32
40. Thank you very much....
:pals:
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #40
44. Welcome to DU,
cutie! :pals:
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #1
12. Bush? What foreign war has Kim Jong Ill attacked?
Bush has started two wars. Kim?
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BrklynLib at work Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. The comparison was between Kim Jong Il and Ahmadinejad
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SayWhatYo Donating Member (991 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #14
37. You can't do that.
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RethugAssKicker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
2. Agree !... but now with France joing the insane asylum
an attack on Iran is now inevitable !!!
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MrScorpio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Which is an excellent primer for showing us why we shouldn't elect quasi-fascist pols
If France follows up on its threats, expect massive internal unrest and the Sarkozy government using violent police state tactics against the disadvantaged minority communities.

Bush is Sarkozy's guidepost for dealing with his own internal issues.

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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. "Quasi"? Ain't nuttin' quasi about 'im.
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
3. Exactly, K&R
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AlinPA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
4. There is an election in '08 and republicans need boots on the ground and
lots of caskets to get the flags waving in 'murca.
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MrScorpio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. And don't underestimate Bush's impeccable timing for poisoning the political well
He's following a well established time line for sure

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no_hypocrisy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
7. You kidding? This crowd goes for the Hail Mary Pass on a regular basis
without bothering to look at the Play Book.
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MrScorpio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Is that why I feel like a third wheel?
Thanks for pointing that out
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Parche Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
11. Exactly
You are right on Mr Scorp

I dont like their religious human rights violations, but that is no reason
to invade.........:hi:
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wuushew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
15. Unless Bush is removed from office I can't think of a way of stopping him
Edited on Tue Sep-25-07 01:07 PM by wuushew
Also Congress has never in history denied the POTUS a declaration of war.

I mean most Amerikans did not hunger to enter WWI but Wilson did it anyway.


Your options are either impeachment or the 25th amendment. Both are long shots at this point.

Its always possible that a natural disaster or armed conflict elsewhere would distract him for the duration of time he remains in office.
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lyonn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #15
22. Would the impeachment process distract him?
Not going to happen. The news reports scare the hell out of me. This Iran so called threat is BS, shades of invasion of Iraq. Nothing but how bad Iran is.

Bush will find a way to cover for him taking out Iran's Nuke sites. Yah, right, another BS. Will that be when the world lights up with mass bombings? Bush would like nothing better than a nuke war 'cause he has more than anyone, except Russia.
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Devlzown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
16. Who better than the Americans
and the French can teach other countries about morality? And modesty and dignity.........:eyes:
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MrScorpio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. We've lost our way
The example we're setting is very instructive
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fenriswolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
18. as far as I can see
america above all other countries is resposable for the creation of terrorist states and widespread killings then any other state. we need to set an example before condeming other nations and as far as I can tell other nations follow our example of mass killings and political discord.
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MrScorpio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. But in the past, there was at least the facade of legitimacy
Bush is too obtuse to ever try using a sure fire formula


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fenriswolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. agreed, he isnt trying to hide it anymore
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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
21. Related DU post , please read
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
23. Has anyone on DU supported invading Iran?
As far as I can tell, the only morans (DU spelling) even considering invasion of Iran are Dick Cheney, the *, and the twelve or so people left who post on freerepublic.

Who else doesn't recognize that this would be a completely disastrous thing to do?
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Believe it or not, yes:
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MrScorpio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. My point being that demonizing Ahmadinejad is a de facto support for a Bush attack
We shouldn't fall into his trap
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fenriswolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. agreed any rehtoric that drudges up reasons that iran
is a horrible country and would be better of if it were changed are warmongers because they rehash the talking points for invading iraq.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. I totally disagree. For one thing, we don't have to demonize him.
He's done a pretty good job of that himself. Second, we can and MUST stand up for human rights all over the world - not just in the U.S. Third, those of us standing up for human rights (and I would hope that this would include 100% of DU posters) can and MUST stand against war, capital punishment, and all forms of state-supported violence.
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MrScorpio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Read my original post
Standing up for human rights is of course the the proper path.

But, while fighting for this, no one should let their opposition to abuses in Iran be taken advantage of by a Bush administration that would use that opposition as a tool to improperly gauge support for a military attack.

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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. That's so condescending. Do you really think we're all that stupid?
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MrScorpio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Never underestimate your opponent
Especially, one such as vile and underhanded as the Bush Administration
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #30
34. and my insistence on human rights around the world helps the bush administration...how?
Please explain how you got from point A to point B because you lost me.
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MrScorpio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #34
38. Okay, here we go
A tactic that the Bush administration used for garnering an attack on Iraq was its use of talking points that could easily be employed by the Democrats, i.e., protecting the country from terrorist attack, preserving access to energy resources and upholding the authority of the U.N., even as it undermined it.

The Bush Administration is sure to co-opt many of out own objections to provide a beard for its motivation for attacking Iraq... Human rights and so on.

When advocating that Iran adhere to established standards of behavior, we should all make very clear that whatever opposition one has to events condoned by the rulers of Iran, there is absolutely no justification for Bush's efforts.
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fenriswolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. your already falling into their trap
by letting an standing issue that has been their for decades all of a sudden compele you to take up a cause that you probably knew about in your subconiounce but now are being vocal and thats all you can talk about while all anyone around you can hear you just hear iran=bad
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. whatthefuckareyousaying ican'tunderstandyou
As a lesbian, I tend to stay aware of the various countries around the world who want to kill me. There's a long list, and Iran is on it.

Please give me credit for not being stupid. It adds insult to injury.
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fenriswolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. sorry
alright so you are aware, im just stating by bringing up the same talking points people just get the general message of iran=bad and I never said you were stupid so don't put words in my mouth, I'm just saying while this does suck it looks like the only thing politically we are about to do to iran is bomb this shit about them so by restating the talking points your helping people pound the drums of war, I just say concentrate on your own rights here and after we get our home straightened out we will be in a much better position to create unilateral talks to try and create free and equal societies around the world
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Thanks anyway, but I think I'll protect my own life in my own way.
I don't see you or a heck of a lot of people in the U.S. very focused on protecting my life. So I think I'll just keep contributing to Amnesty International and calling out the various countries in the world who are killing and torturing people because they are gay. That includes the U.S.

And I'm not in favor of invading a single one of them. And I know for a fact that Unka Dick is not confused about whether or not I am his supporter. No indeed.
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fenriswolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. im not gonna get into another flame war
thank you for your ideas and opinions. and outta curiosity is your life really in danger?
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. All of our lives are in danger, honey.
All of our lives are in danger.
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fenriswolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. right i understand that im just stating that the best way to fend it off
is to stop repeating the talking points of the war mongers, i agree hate crimes are bad and are prolific around the world, but were on an ever increasing agression scale and pointing fingers and yelling he's evil and their evil and this is wrong and that is wrong does not help. what we need are unilateral talks about peace but we cannot do that while our gov is building a case for war so for the time being just stop with the agression because we don't need it we need to solve this through peace and peacefull means.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. Oh, I see. My posts stating that homophobia is wrong are "aggressive."
Sorry about that. You'll just have to live with my aggression.

And I'm also puzzled about why "unilateral talks about peace" would help but since I can't understand any of your logic I doubt I would understand your reasoning on that either.
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fenriswolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. no not that
just stating pointing fingers and yelling "their evil and wrong" do not make a good argument for peace in fact they make an argument for war which is what the wh wants, thats all im saying
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. Who is yelling "their evil and wrong?"
I must have missed that.

If I follow your logic, you are saying that pointing out other countries' human rights violations might be used by Republicans as an excuse to invade those countries. Is that what you're saying? And so you think that if we just be quiet and not talk about the human rights abuses....what? The Republicans will decide not to go to war? We'll somehow stop them from invading Iran by ignoring Iran's human rights violations?

Please explain how that will work.
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fenriswolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. agression towards a country however stated builds up
agression, i'm not stating ignore it but just to understand that yes human rights violations are abhorent but that we must focus on our politicians using our own talking points as a mandate for war which is something they have done in the past, i guess what i'm saying is that we must state that yes we do not like what is happening over their but that it does not make their society evil and is not a reason for physical aggression towards the country, they are already inundated with embargos to show that the world does not agree with their policies but we must not invite an excuse to go to war with them which is what an agressive style of discussion does. and I am sorry for over emphisising the "they are evil" but thats what alot of the DU talking points boil down to. I do not mean to misquote or misinterpret.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 01:12 AM
Response to Reply #27
50. And we stand up for those things by blowing the entire country to smithereens--
--just because human rights violators live there. Reminds me of how our government "saved" the underaged wives of David Koresh by burning them alive.
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
48. Amen to that. K&R
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Tom Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 07:25 PM
Response to Original message
49. Ahmadinejad will soon pass, the consequences of a war with Iran
will last for a very long time.
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Psyop Samurai Donating Member (873 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
51. Appreciate your efforts, MrScorpio. K&R ...n/t
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