Warren Jeffs found guilty of rape by accessory. 2 counts. Could

[Ilsa]

spend rest of his life in jail.

Now saying "Rape by Accomplice"

[Iris]

1. good.

The victim's testimony was harrowing.

[Ilsa]

2. This is the polygamist leader.

[Waya]

3. Good!

[deadmessengers]

4. good

fuck him

[adadem]

5. that's great

but sadly some other kook will replace him.

[DemoTex]

6. Rot in jail. Then rot in hell.

Read Jon Krakauer's Under the Banner of Heaven: A Story of Violent Faith for a better understanding of why I say Warren Jeffs should rot in hell.

[TomInTib]

7. I'm in your Amen Corner, Mac.

I only wish that more people knew how inherently evil that bastard is.

[Ilsa]

9. A couple of years ago I heard the Fresh Air interview with

Krakauer on the writing of this book and the story. "RIH" is a sentiment I share as well.

[MissB]

11. I read that a few months ago.

It was a fascinating read.

I bought it to better understand the Mormon religion and its roots.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

8. Great news!!

Justice can be sweet.

[roguevalley]

10. good, the little ass.

[DouglasWolf]

12. Can can there be "Rape by Accomplice" with no rape?

Gang,

I'm *certain*, I'm going to be misinterpreted, but what the hell:

Jeff's is a complete dirtbag, but I'm concerned about the legal precedent. The young lady in question was of the age of consent in her home-state. (That should probably be changed by the way.) *NO ONE* was charged with rape (including the husband.)

If no "rape" (by the legal definition) occured, how can someone be an accomplice to rape?

Flames will be cheerfully ignored.

-- DW

[fenriswolf]

13. wasnt she 14?

isnt that statutory rape?

[ljm2002]

14. Coerced consent is not consent...

...regardless of age. She was forced to marry and submit to a man chosen for her, as her testimony indicated. So the age of consent does not enter into it. The question hinges on whose story the jury believed, hers or the defense's. Apparently the jury believed her story.

[Beaverhausen]

15. She was forced against her will to marry the other man

according to the MSNBC article: "Prosecutors said Jeffs forced the girl into marriage and sex against her will."

So, that is rape.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20974526/

[Disturbed]

16. After the Jury heard her testimony they probably wanted to

give that perv the DP.

[blondeatlast]

17. The CNN story is pretty good at spelling out the charges; here's an excerpt:

Judge James Shumate instructed jurors that under Utah law, a 14-year-old can consent to sex in some circumstances. But there can be no consent, the judge said, if a person under 18 is coerced by someone at least three years older.

Someone can be found guilty if he or she holds a position of "special trust" over another person under 18, the judge instructed.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/09/24/polygamist.trial/index.html

I consider a "prophet" someone who might hold special trust over a "follower," especially a child.

[DouglasWolf]

18. That clears it up... a little

Blondeatlast, thanks for the link.

And please... if anyone thinks I'm defending Jeffs, go rant at someone else...

But this case still bothers me a little. This feels like one of those cases where justice was done in this specific instance, but still manages to set a very scary precedent.

Does everyone here *really* think it's OK to bring charges against someone for "accessory to rape" without bringing actual rape charges against someone? At no point was this 14-year-old girl's husband accused of rape. Without a rape occuring, how can there be an accesory?

I don't agree with Jeffs religion, nor with the way he deals with people who trust him... but short of outright fraud, I don't see anything he did that was illegal. If one is going to claim he violated a "special position of trust", then you pretty much are also required to agree that the girl's parents violated *their* "special position of trust". Why weren't the parents charged?

It's my opinion that while Jeffs is a scumbag... he didn't do anything illegal. The *real* problem is that Utah allows 14-year olds to get married! (And that her parents were too stupid to protect her.)

I'm curious... had this girl been 24 instead of 14, do you still think Jeffs should have been charged?

-- DW

[aikoaiko]

19. I see what your getting out, but its not a deal breaker for me.

I don't know the details of this case well enough, but it could be that it was difficult to make a "beyond a reasonable doubt" case against the husband for rape because of the wording of Utah laws, but rape by accomplice laws were prosecutable.

[ProfessorGAC]

20. I Would Suggest That There Must Be A. . .

. . .fine point of law here. The prosecutor would not have brought charges that he knew would be overturned because no criminal activity had occurred.

Like DW said, there are details we don't know, but don't forget that coercion is coercion. That still makes it rape. So, in fact, a rape did occur.
The Professor

[blondeatlast]

23. If she were 24, no, I don't think they would have made a case and would not have been charged.

Having followed the case some--and knowing the Utah/AZ border culture of that region, I have to say that the young woman was incredibly brave to press charges and especially, to testify.

I have no problem with what consenting ADULTS do for comapnionship, but there is considerable exploitation and abuse of both make and female children in that area. The authorities are very often complicit in that they have been infiltrated by believers and Jeffs' followers hold an iron grip on tha political and judicial power in that area (I've lived nearby in the past).

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

26. "if anyone thinks I'm defending Jeffs, go rant at someone else..."

Well shit, you suggested it wasn't really rape, something the guy just got convicted for.

Sorry, if you don't think that's defending Jeffs, go "not defend" Jeffs somewhere else.

[youthere]

21. I don't know what to say...

I feel so badly for this man...it's like a pain in my stomach...*farts*... nevermind.

[Breeze54]

22. That dirtbag sociopath needs to be locked up for a long time and

his 10,000 minions need to be deprogrammed!

[blondeatlast]

24. Well... yeah. But first, the children need to get safely away.

It's pretty sickening in that part of my state. The children look just a bit frightened. I can't describe it, it's just not natural.

[Breeze54]

25. I'll bet it's very troublesome. Maybe with

this conviction, the state will be able to go in and take all those kids into custody.

That needs to happen in quite a few states where he has 'colonies' and in Canada.

Not to mention "The Lost Boys"!! :grr: