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DLC's Ideas Primary: The Left views any talk of “democracy promotion” with growing suspicion."

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 03:59 PM
Original message
DLC's Ideas Primary: The Left views any talk of “democracy promotion” with growing suspicion."
Edited on Tue Sep-25-07 04:00 PM by madfloridian
Hell, yes, we most certainly do. The very sound of anyone speaking about spreading anymore Democracy sends chills up our spines. We have been spreading it at gunpoint for over 5 years in Iraq and Afghanistan. We have failed in both places.

How does this group dare to start promoting more Democracy-spreading at this point in time.

We are having to fight our own party now to keep them from starting another war, or at least keep them from letting Little Boots start one.

Democracy in the Middle East

By Shadi Hamid

Thanks to the Bush administration, the Left views any talk of “democracy promotion” with growing suspicion. This is one of the tragic consequences of the Iraq war and the incessant belligerence of an administration that has tainted everything it has touched in the Middle East. In response - and in disillusion - progressives have abandoned one of the core tenets of liberal internationalism. The task ahead of us, then, is a difficult one: reclaiming democracy promotion as our own, in a way that upholds the best of our ideals, and, at the same time, appreciates the very real limits of power and idealism. First, the rationale; beyond the moral component, democracy promotion is the only way to protect the homeland and secure our long-term national interests.


No, please stop saying we are going to promote Democracy. That is neither our right nor our calling as a nation.

State unequivocally that America respects democratic outcomes. In very clear terms, the United States needs to tell the Middle East that it is not opposed to Islamist parties coming to power through free elections, under the condition that the groups in question have explicitly committed themselves to the nonviolence and respecting the democratic process.


First of all, it is not our business.

Distinguish between nonviolent and violent Islamists. Too often, the many varieties of Islamists are lumped together and viewed as a monolithic group of irrational, dangerous fanatics. In reality, however, there are significant and growing gaps between violent organizations - such as al-Qaeda and its jihadist offshoots - and mainstream groups that peacefully participate in the political process. The latter category includes the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, the Islamic Action Front in Jordan, the AK Party in Turkey, and the Islamic Constitutionalist Movement in Kuwait. None of these groups have armed wings, all have explicitly renounced violence, and many hold large numbers of seats in their respective parliaments. Moreover, through their vast network of mosques, schools, foundations, and hospitals, these groups provide an important socio-political outlet to disaffected youth - who might otherwise be susceptible to the lure of terrorism - to channel their frustrations peacefully.


Yes, work with them for peaceful purposes, but don't call it spreading Democracy. That makes it sound like we are in charge and are the boss. We are not.





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TechBear_Seattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 04:14 PM
Response to Original message
1. The truly scary part is...
That this same fear becomes especially manifest when voting activists and dyed-in-the-wool liberals here in the United States speak of promoting democracy: elections that cannot be coopted through blackbox tabulators, meaningful choice at the polls, the ability to make an educated choice from the slate of candidates, openness with regards to who is buying which candidate, campaign promises that at least sound believable, average citizens having a meaningful say at any point in the process of putting people in office.... You remember, democracy!



(crickets chirp)



(crickets chirp)



(crickets chirp)



Oh, why do I even bother.
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 04:17 PM
Response to Original message
2. The United States SUCKS at promoting Democracy, every time we claim to do it...
its yet another tin-pot dictator that obeys the rules set forward by Washington D.C. That's all the U.S. government wants, an obedient client state, the more totalitarian the better, its easier to control a strongman than it is to control the population of a nation.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. "It's be a heck alot easier if this were a dictatorship, so long as I am the dictator."
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Video of the fool saying that:
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Thanks madfloridian.
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Individualist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
3. It's not surprising that the neocon enablers are promoting reich wing propaganda
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flashl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
4. I am becoming increasingly suspicious of everything that comes from Washington
I've nearly arrived at the conclusion that they need to shut the place down so we can have some peace of mind.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. I see Will Marshall is pushing similar stuff at the PPI site
which is the sister site of the DLC. Must be a coordinated effort.

Rejoin the Battle of Ideas

To counter the Islamist surge, we need a more precise definition of the conflict. As Reza Aslan, a scholar of politics and religion in the Middle East, argues, "The United States has not so much launched a war against Islamic terrorism as joined a war already in progress." This is a struggle for Islam's soul, and therefore not one that America can "win." On one side are Salafi zealots who promise to restore Islam's glory by violently purging Muslim societies of modern ideas and erasing all boundaries between politics and religion. On the other is a Muslim mainstream striving peacefully to reconcile Islam and modernity. Unfolding amid a general revival of Islamic fervor and identity, this contest is mainly for Muslims to decide. Yet America cannot safely disengage from the conflict. On the contrary, our country (and Europe too) has an enormous stake in the outcome. In the wake of the Iraq debacle, we need a new strategy for tipping the scales toward Muslim moderates and modernizers.


I find myself wondering how it would work to just leave them alone.

Amid the mounting turmoil, it should be obvious even to the most doctrinaire realist that the United States cannot simply return to its 60-year policy of supporting "moderate" autocracies in the name of stability. Corrupt and oppressive, haunted by the failures of socialism and Arab nationalism, and seemingly impervious to reform, the Middle East's post-colonial order is breaking down. It makes no strategic sense for the United States to prop up this rotten status quo; on the contrary, such a course would only reinforce a jihadist narrative that has America talking democracy while practicing imperialism.


Well, at least he noticed we are practicing imperialism, but what does he plan to do with the "rotten status quo"?

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Hydra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
5. They must think we're stupid
We don't promote democracy, we promote tyrants to control areas of the world for us. It just makes us look worse as a nation when anyone in our political system spews this drivel. It's not like the rest of the world is fooled either.

I never thought I'd live to see the day when we so closely resembled the USSR.
:argh:
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 04:50 PM
Response to Original message
6. Labor, Environmental & Human Rights
I no longer care what kind of bullshit government is implemented as long as these 3 ingredients make up the foundation for the citizens' quality of life. The Ruling Class has turned "democracy" into a slogan to cover up their real motive, exploiting global resources.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. and creating slave labor.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
7. Ok, the link worked when I posted. Here is the corrected? link.
http://www.ideasprimary.com/?p=317

That is to the DLC site.

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illinoisprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 11:01 PM
Response to Original message
13. We must work to keep DLC candidates from getting elected then the DLC will die of neglect
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. Amen to that
throw in the Blue Dogs too.
They are just republicans working to destroy the Democratic party from within.
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KG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 09:10 AM
Response to Original message
14. funny how the US seems to only care about promoting 'democracy' where
there are resources to be stolen.
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pampango Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
16. What then is "our calling as a nation"? n/t
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
17. i would support "promoting democracy" in the US, starting with Florida
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IndianaJones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
18. I am certainly glad I am not considered to be on "the left" nt.
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Trillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 07:13 PM
Response to Original message
19. Yeah, Let's "spread democracy" to other countries.
Meanwhile, back at home, "Diebold" et al.
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