School Vouchers? Why or Why not?

[Flabbergasted]

Truthfully this issue never interested me much.

So to remedy this I was wondering what your opinions are? I know the prevailing liberal opinion is negative.

[slackmaster]

1. I am solidly not sure

I've paid a lot of money in taxes to educate other peoples' kids as it is. A voucher system wouldn't really affect me.

[Reciprocity]

33. Same here.

In Texas if you own property you and only you pay school taxes. I don't mind paying this as a childless couple ( not by choice) because I know my local schools need the money. What this could do here, is send my tax dollars to other schools and I would have no voice in the matter.

[blondeatlast]

2. Because they allow federal funds to go to schools that can choose

not to accept the handicapped, those unable to meet "academic standards" (mentally challenged, poor, from uneducated parents, etc.

Because they can teach religious theory using public funds.

[Flabbergasted]

14. All buildings would have to follow State and Federal Building codes.

I'd think the private schools would also need to be non-profit? Maybe not.

[PA Democrat]

16. Yes, by accepting only those who meet their academic standards the

private schools siphon off funds from the public schools who are left with children who are the most difficult and expensive to educate.

[Flabbergasted]

21. There are many systems of academic standards....

Since their are many different learning types, personality types and interests etc a child's education can be tailored to their specific needs. No more one size fits all, formulaic education.

[PA Democrat]

45. Federal law requires public schools to individualize educational programs for children w/

disabilities. It is NOT one-size-fits-all, and therefore costs more money to educate kids with disabilities. The current law, IDEA. guarantees children with disabilities a "free and appropriate public education". If the kids who do not need as much individualized instruction are siphoned off by the private schools, the public schools are left with the children that are the most expensive to educate. The standard educational voucher would never cover the cost of educating say a child with autism, so unless the parents can make up the difference, the kid will be left behind in a financially strapped public school.

[mulsh]

3. most private schools have a minimum standard of mandatory

parent participation, many will charge parents who fail to meet those standards. In addition to this many private schools have assorted extra fees aside from tuition. Voucher proponents tend to go quiet when I mention these two issues. School vouchers only cover tuition.

[peace13]

4. Skinner if you are recording this vote

for the record, I don't like vouchers, never have and never will! Peace, Kim

[DemocratSinceBirth]

5. Can I Get A Voucher To Get The New Infiniti G Coupe

eom

[blondeatlast]

6. If it gets more than 12 MPG, no. Or can it be classified as a commercial truck? nt

[Xithras]

7. No problem, so long as voucher accepting schools are held to standards.

The purpose of public taxation to support schools is to ensure that all children get an education. So long as those tax dollars are being used for that purpose, and any education offered meets certain legal standards, I have no problem with vouchers. I support universal education, the exact method of delivery is less important than the standard itself.

Hell, I don't even care if they teach religious doctrine to the kids, so long as they aren't doing it exclusively, and it doesn't interfere with their learning other standardized curriculum.

[Flabbergasted]

39. The method of delievery may be as important as the standard.

[Xithras]

43. Ultimately, what matters is the quality of education the child receives.

The method of delivery only matters insomuch as it impacts that quality. If a private school can offer an education equal or superior to that of a public school, I do not have a problem with tax dollars supporting individual kids in that school system. The choice should not be between lower quality government schools and higher quality private schools. From the perspective of a teacher, a taxpayer, and a parent, there is really only one question that needs to be answered: Which method, dollar for dollar, offers the child a superior education?

Universal education is a liberal concept in that we want to ensure that all children are receiving a quality education. Once that standard is met, the rest is just useless political cat fighting.

If a voucher can help to get a kid into a school that will give him or her an education superior to the one offered by the local public school, then I absolutely cannot oppose the issuance of that voucher.

[MrCoffee]

8. you don't fix public schools by giving their money to discriminatory private schools.

[johnaries]

9. They only pay for part, not all of the education.

People who can't afford to send thier kids to private schools still won't be able to afford it. it will just take funds away from public schools to help subsidize the rich kids.

[Flabbergasted]

12. What if it paid for all of it?

[mmonk]

10. Privitization.

[Flabbergasted]

11. Somehow having the choice to send to "state" or "home" schools etc

seems to make alot of sense in liberals political thought; Freedom from the state in Education.

[TahitiNut]

That freedom exists. Like religious freedom - but you can't demand your neighbor pay tithes.

As a childless person, can I use such a voucher to buy a car? :eyes:

[Flabbergasted]

24. But you can force your neighbor to pay tithes to have the STATE educate you?

[TahitiNut]

30. It's NOT a bank account. It's like ROADS and other public resources.

It's NOT a deposit.

The public education system does far more than offer the mandated K-12 education for the nation's children. It offers Adult Education ... either free or at below cost. It offers education to the nation's children irrespective of ability or ethnicity ... irrespective of the COST of providing those services. Public schools are often the sole decent location for election polls. Public schools are often the only place where all member of the community interact.

It's there, like a road, and you can use or not. I don't get a 'voucher' for the highways I choose not to use.

People who have children and want MORE (always MORE!) economic benefits besides tax deductions and community resources are just plain greedy. It's an appetite, not equity.

[Flabbergasted]

42. I see Schools more in league with hospitals than roads.

Hospitals are all privately run which is good and used to be nonprofit which was also good.

Sadly they are now for profit which is a part of the "Health Care Crisis."

In single payer health care you can go anywhere and get care paid for by the state. It's the best Health Care System.

Although hospitals are paid for privately in part there is also a great deal paid to hospitals by the state.

[TahitiNut]

44. Nobody mandates that sick people use a hospital

People are mandated to use the public (or private) thoroughfares ("rights of way") or suffer the consequences.

The mandate to educate EVERY child to 12th grade or 18 years old is absolutely essential to a democratic society - and the obligation to provide the SERVICE (not some bank account) is consistent with that.

Look ... the only reason that 'vouchers' were even invented as some hare-brained idea is because of antipathy to a free society (irrespective of race or creed) and GREED. The notion of vouchers did NOT grow out of any sense of equity - and all such apologetics came AFTERWARD - as rationalizations - in order to provide cover for bigotry and greed.

I lived in the "Heart of Dixie" when the public schools were 'integrated and watched as all them freedom-loving white citizuns sent they's chilluns to uniformly white 'church' schools - churches they never attended. Because of 'faith'?? Nope. Those rationalizations came AFTERWARD. The whole 'voucher' thing comes out of the same cesspools.


If you like the idea of vouchers, you must LOVE our current abomination of a health care system. Why? Because vouchers argues for privateering and better-for-the-wealthy access to a basic human need. When the public education system is destroyed - after only the disabled are left because they're not "cost-effective" to educate - then the next thing to go is public funding (in favor of 'insurance' against pregnancy?). Privateering of public services is an abomination, imho.

[madokie]

37. no but pornography maybe

so as to get u in the right mood for making babies :-)

[blondeatlast]

22. No one is stopping you--but you can't use Federal funds to be exclusionary.

Well, that was before the Bush cabal, but you get the idea. Well, maybe you do.

[Flabbergasted]

25. Most people can't afford it which only provides the luxury to a precentage of the population

This is also exclusionary

[blondeatlast]

28. Vouchers do little or nothing to help. we have them in my state.

The rich send their kids to the same grand schools, the poor send theirs to schools with uncertified teachers and where the funds are misused.

[Flabbergasted]

31. I live in Portland which actually has a growing movement of really good

and influential private schools. In fact many parents consider these alternative schools.

We have friends who's, really wild, 6 year old went to a school called Trinity where the program includes such things as Yoga last year. It was perfect for her. Unfortunately for her she is now in state run school.

[Reciprocity]

36. Exclusionary.

How about everyone paying school taxes instead of just property owners here in Tx?

[mmonk]

38. The right uses vouchers to defund the government schools.

They aren't really pushing choice.

[Flabbergasted]

41. If the schools receiving vouchers were nonprofit there would be no difference.

[Poiuyt]

13. Strongly opposed to vouchers

You are taking money away from public schools and giving it to private schools. If public schools are lacking, then use the funds to improve them.

To me, it's like asking for a voucher to use UPS instead of the US Postal Service.

[Flabbergasted]

17. Has the idea been tested anywhere?

[blondeatlast]

20. They are available in Arizona. the result? Home schooled who don't get schooled at all,

charter schools that do a miserable job of teaching even to the NCLB-backed AIMS test, kids who reach college age with little basic knoledge, LOTS of charter school fund corruption.

Not just no--HELL FUCKING HELL NO.

[Flabbergasted]

27. Poor regulations?

[blondeatlast]

47. Yes. But put in place by our Sac o' Shit (I mean, SOS)

and voucher lovin' state leg.

[Greyskye]

49. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry that the charter schools in Arizona are letting down the kids, but that's not always the case. The public charter school that my wife teaches at in northern California got there scores back recently. Higher than average, and better than the 'regular' public school in the same district.

[TahitiNut]

15. Other: I detest the idea.

:shrug:

[blondeatlast]

29. Silly, that wasn't one of the options. Fail. The Army is calling, better get the door.

(I agree with you)

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

18. I think it's kind of like a literacy test.

If you're for vouchers, you ain't literate.

[TahitiNut]

19. It's certainly a logic test, I'd say.

If not an ethics test. Clearly, those in favor are probably those most ill-served by the education system.

[porphyrian]

23. Voucher systems drain money from already-underfunded public schools.

There are lots of reasons vouchers are bad, ask a teacher.

[TahitiNut]

34. Indeed. I agree. And I started out as a math teacher at a parochial high school, too.

I have LOTS of problems with the way our public education system is being 'managed' but vouchers is one of the worst, if not THE worst, notions I've ever seen.

I'd absolutely love to go back into teaching - part-time - but the enormous hassle isn't worth it.

[porphyrian]

46. Heh, see?

Yeah, teaching can be rewarding if you're masochistic enough.

[Greyskye]

26. Not. Just always remember...

...that Charter Schools DO NOT equal vouchers. Many people on DU seem to be unable to grasp that distinction.

[tech3149]

32. All of the voucher plans I've seen take money away from pub budget

that takes money away from the public school district. The other problem is the vouchers are usually not worth enough to cover tuition for a private school. If you're in a strapped for cash household, where do you get the balance? I'd consider it if the voucher covered the cost of the private school and didn't take the same amount from the public school budget.

Another problem is that the results in Texas indicate that most of the private schools getting money had poorer performance than the public schools and cooked the books to hide it.

Having worked around public schools for more than a few years, mostly dealing with administrators, school boards and such, I think the biggest wastes are throwing money at things that have no educational benefit or administrators (sometimes the curriculum planners) who have no classroom experience. The good teachers don't need someone looking over their shoulder to do a good job, they will read each student individually to help them learn. That's what they live for.

I agree with Jefferson that we should all have equal opportunity in education regardless of our station in life. I don't see vouchers doing anything but the opposite.

[madokie]

35. I don't like the idea

too many rich and re:puke:s like the idea for it to be good for us average joes and moma six packs with a house full of snotty nosed kids, ie, us average folks

[aikoaiko]

40. I love school voucher threads

;)

[OnionPatch]

48. It all depends

I used to be against vouchers but now that I have a child in elementary school, I can see how it would be nice to have more choice than the local public school. But any voucher that doesn't pay the entire amount needed for a private education is like giving someone a coupon for $5000 off on a new Mercedes Benz....Most people still couldn't afford it. Also, the vouchers would need to be tailored for children with special needs so they can get the additional funds they need. I also worry that if we had vouchers, all the schools would be so specialized that it may be hard to find one right for your child. For instance, if they passed vouchers around here, every private school that popped up would be religiously based and I will NOT send my child to a religious school. Would our public school still have all the funding it needs so that I would be happy to keep my child there? I also worry that the profit motive would seriously degrade the whole system the way it has our health care system. If someone can come up with a plan to address all the above, then I'm for them. If not, then I'm not.

[MH1]

50. My taxes are for other people's kids to go to PUBLIC school.

Not madrassas or Catholic schools or fundie schools or schools to learn that the earth is flat or that the First Amendment doesn't really mean separation of church and state.

Since I pay taxes and have no kids to go to school, the argument that people should get to choose where to send their kids on their tax dollars doesn't wash. If it did, I should get the voucher as a rebate on my taxes. But that's nonsensical...it would be saying our society no longer believed in public education at all.