The anti-Universal Health Care people lost out to Michael Moore today!

[glarius]

The U.S.A anti-Universal Health Care people keep emphasizing "long waiting times" when referring to health care in my country and others with Universal Health Care!
I'm so glad Michael Moore, on today's Oprah show, finally got the chance to point out that in Canada, France, U.K. and Germany etc., the waiting times are for elective or non-life threatening or serious problems. That phony scare tactic....that you Americans will be dying in the streets waiting for care....he exposed for the lie it is. I know this from personal experience. Someone close to our family had a sudden emergency out of the blue and was helicoptered to Hamilton, Ontario for immediate, life-saving surgery. (Cost...zero.) It was good to see Michael able to really speak to the insurance person. He showed her up for the shill she is. Oprah's show was so much better than the phony so-called debate John Stossel had going on 20/20 a week or so ago!

Hang in there America. You'll get Universal Care like the rest of the civilized world! YOU DESERVE IT!

[Solon]

1. You know what pissed me off, that fucking Insurance industry President...

She used damned near EVERY single buzzword to prop up the idea that a government run system is a bad idea. She even called it "foreign"! Which, to Americans is damned near a slur, if there ever was one. She kept up talking about a "Uniquely American" solution to the problem, every time I hear that phrase I think, "Oh shit, somebody's going to fuck it up".

Seriously, why the fuck should we in the United States try a system that hasn't been proven to work yet, and ignore systems that DO work already. What the fuck is wrong with taking "foreign" ideas and adopting them?

[rodeodance]

3. sounds like she can only make her point through deception/ lies

[glarius]

5. I also keep hearing anti Universal H. C. people referring to "government controlled"

health care....or "government run" care. This is another lie. Our doctors and hospitals run everything and make all decisions. All the government does is pay the bills!

[Warpy]

6. I had to click off 35 minutes into it or my foot would have been

through the screen. I can afford to replace the set, but large item pickup was yesterday and the catharsis wasn't worth it.

Fluffy was definitely playing to the 30 something churchgoing suburban base of the GOP.

As long as she keeps getting paid for it, she doesn't care.

[porphyrian]

7. Her thought processes were slowed by the amount of botox in her face.

I'm surprised she could blink.

[blondeatlast]

14. I'm watching now and that's what I was thinking.

She got that medical procedure--for denying how many others???

[porphyrian]

19. Right. People are getting terminal cancer because insurance won't cover...

...the more-expensive-but-thorough tests, yet she gets enough botulism injected into her face to drop an elephant, and probably wrote it off as a business expense. After all, this was a PR gig.

[blondeatlast]

24. All her talk about "experimental" procedures...

I'm able to write this because of an experimental procedure that FIVE of my doctors went to bat for me for.

Three of them actually called the insurance companies THEMSELVES.

I needed a stent placed in my cranium to open an artery and would not be sitting here without it (I might be sucking up oxygen in a hospital bed, but not much else).

My insurance coverage--and I supposedly have a great plan--said no three times.

God help me, I cost my fellow CIGNA "customers" money. Somehow, I don't think many of them felt the pain that much--but CIGNA sure as hell seemed to.

My premiums paid for her wrinkle-less neck (although of course, CIGNA didn't, but we still did), but it wasn't going to pay to let blood into my brain.

What a sick, fucking, disgusting tool she was. May I never meet her face to face.

[porphyrian]

53. I can't prove it, but I think they automatically deny almost every claim.

They save all kinds of money because at least half of the people won't challenge the initial denial, whether they are supposed to be covered or not. Then, those that do challenge it, they can tell the denial was a clerical or computer error. I fucking hate them.

[Sweet Freedom]

50. I was thinking she had all that botox pumped into her

because it's the only way she can keep a straight face when she lies.

[porphyrian]

52. That may have been part of the decision process on it, I don't doubt. - n/t

[Sweet Freedom]

60. What do you want to bet that she got her insurance to cover it? /nt

[redqueen]

9. What's wrong with it? No profit for those on the take, that's what.

I'm so frickin sick of being lied to about why our dem leaders refuse to support the ONLY sane solution.

[Solon]

17. She also said hospital and doctor's offices HAVE TO MAKE A PROFIT....

even though she didn't elaborate on that at all. The fact is that that is a LIE, the hospitals in my area are run by one of two health care system, BJC and SSM, both of which are NON-PROFIT, and affiliated with either Catholic or Jewish charities and religious organizations.

[redqueen]

18. Not to mention that single payer doesn't cut out profits for doctors or hospitals...

only insurance companies.

Spin, spin, spin... and hardly any dems willing to stand up and set the record straight... most are happy taking insurance industry $$$$ so they just stand by and let the lies stand.

[superkia]

32. There is a presidential candidate that wants the profit out of health care.

He also saw that the war was about oil ( once again $$$ ) and voted no. I dont think Americans want honesty in politics though. Too bad!

[nealmhughes]

35. What a crock! Every hospital in North Alabama is a non-profit! The large ones in Bham are either

affiliated with the University of Alabama or else the Catholic Church!

The largest in Alabama is in Tuscaloosa and is part of the UA system!

I guess 4 and a half million people don't count by her math. . .

[redqueen]

54. All they have is lies. n/t

.

[donheld]

49. Hello!

Your right on the money. NO one should make a profit on sickness and suffering. They can break even, and pay they bills not the Bill Frist's and Karen Ignagni's should not reap a whirlwind on our pain.

[TransitJohn]

20. Aw jeez man...

...the last time I heard that phrase "uniquely American," it was Bush* referring to a woman working 3 jobs, like it was a fucking good thing.

Hearing "uniquely American" in reference to solving the health care crisis here, I'm thinking that they mean protecting the current profit margins.

[cosmicdot]

30. ding

[Mojambo]

21. "Uniquely American" almost always means that someone is making a buck off it. n/t

[earth mom]

31. That woman should be ashamed of herself. She obviously has NO conscience!

:grr:

[blondeatlast]

33. Botox can do that to a person. nt

[earth mom]

38. Yup and so can greed. nt

[rusty quoin]

2. Yeah we do.

[Cleita]

4. Can you answer me a question.

A friend of mine, who is an ex-pat Canadian, threw a curve ball at me last month. She and her brothers are in their seventies. One of her brothers needed hip surgery and she said it took six months to get it in Canada. Then she explained that each doctor is only allowed to do two surgeries a week. Then she went on to say that he would have gotten surgery sooner here in the USA, to which I replied that he also would have to pay for it. It's my usual retort to Canadians or Brits who have bought into the myth of our health system being superior and their being awful.

However, what is this meme of limiting surgeons to two surgeries a week? Is this a provincial thing. Said brother does live in Manitoba, which I understand is quite conservative. Is she right or is she just listening to some propaganda?

[Solon]

11. Sounds like Bullshit to me...

I was talking to my Mom, who is an Oprah Winfrey fan, and of course watched the show, she also saw Sicko, and she mentioned that my grandpa had to wait almost a month for open heart surgery because the cardiologist was unavailable, this was in the mid 1980s, in the United States. So waiting lists wouldn't be unique to either Canada or Britain.

[glarius]

12. I have never heard of such a thing so I really haven't an answer for you!

[Cleita]

15. It's probably BS that her brother told her.

I'm going to call her on it and see if she'll find out the facts.

[Warpy]

13. Propaganda.

Besides, my surgeon had to fight with his insurance carrier for THREE YEARS to get his hip replacement. It seems that they didn't care about how much pain he was in, if he could bear weight, it wasn't necessary.

They are assholes. They need to go. A rational culture would have lined them up against the wall decades ago.

[LakeSamish706]

16. In BC here and have not heard that in this Province... My sister just went...

thru hip surgery and is scheduled for the second hip in a mater of weeks... The Canadian health system is far from perfect, but it is one hell of allot better than what you have in the US... (which is basically nothing) I suppose if Harper stays in power for much longer though, we probably will be in jeopardy of loosing what we have.

[glarius]

36. I've been thinking about this and perhaps what it was is that her brother's doctor

only wanted to do two surgeries a week. That's the only thing I can think of.

[Canuckistanian]

41. A doctor only allowed two surgeries a week?

Where did they get that crap from? The orthopedic surgeon who replaced my wife's hip would be surprised to hear that. He does at least 15 surgeries a week.

Oh, and my wife's waiting time for the new hip? About four months. It would have been three months, only my wife wanted to finish off her school year (she's a teacher).

[nadinbrzezinski]

47. My brother did Internal Medicine at Toronto Gen

My dad had heart surgery at Toronto Gen (They paid for it, as the dad of a House doc they allowed for it as long it was paid since my parents still live in Mexico)

The Cardio Thoracic surgeon did that surgery that day, five hour deal and had another one scheduled for the next day.

Not true...

The only reason my brother ended up at the Cleveland Clinic is that they recruited him after finishing his specialty.

He can tell you horror stories on both systems, they do happen... but in the US, at least in my view, they happen more often.

My brother has changed his view that there is more research done here... after the last seven years

He's a research doc.

[provis99]

61. whoa, someone told you a whopper

Manitoba ain't conservative. Its got a socialist government, and the people are the most left-wing on the continent. However, the few conservatives that are there rant louder than usual. My brother lives there; moved there from a right-to-work state (Mississippi) to Canada, partially because the job was better paying, partially because the health care was so much better. He says there are wait lists for non-essential services, but its because the Conservative national government won't fund medicare properly. The idea the Conservatives have is to starve medicare, then turn around and say "see, it doesn't work! We need the wonderful American system!", which, unfortunately, will happen as long as that Christian fundamentalist nut Harper remains as the national leader.

[Evoman]

62. Complete and utter bullshit.

If anything, specialists are overworked. They aren't limited to two surgeries a week, unless they want to be. If it was up to the province, the doctor would be on call 24/7.

And if he WAS limited to two hip surgeries a week, its probably because he has more important surgeries to do.

[LakeSamish706]

8. Hang in there America. You'll get Universal Care like the rest of the civilized world! YOU DESERVE I

From your lips to God's ears... I sure hope my neighbors get decent health care, cause they do deserve it.

[blondeatlast]

26. Thank you, eh? (Ex-Montanan).

And a recipient of some excellent ER care in your fair nation.

[gateley]

10. Thank you so much! I love hearing of Canada's health care system from

one who truly knows! :hi:

[alstephenson]

22. Thanks for the nice thoughts, glarius!

Unfortunately we don't have a choice and have to "hang in there". And yes, EVERYONE deserves decent health care. Thanks again!

[glarius]

23. You're more than welcome!

:loveya:

[blondeatlast]

25. I've NEVER--not once--watched Oprah before. But hats off to her for

having a very reasoned and respectful debate on the issue. She POLITELY asked each guest to let the other finish and no shouting matches.

And how many people does she reach?

I think the tide may have made a BIG turn today.

[glarius]

27. I agree with you. Michael seemed more relaxed than usual and therefore

able to get his important points across. Usually, I get the feeling that he is sort of rushed because he knows the show he is on is really out to get him, and therefore doesn't explain himself properly, so he does a lot of joking. Today was different. He seemed to know he would get a fair shake from Oprah and he was great.

[blondeatlast]

28. That's the kind of political debate I'd love to see more of.

Bring the issues to the people--Oprah is about as "average" as it can get, I imagine.

If it only expanded the dialog it was worth it--and on Oprah, I think the issue was put right out there no longer to be ignored.

[glarius]

29. She has a huge audience too......so lots of folks will see it!

:)

[superkia]

34. Also pointed out that we wait less because 50 million arent in line.

A point I never caught when thinking about the argument of wait times, of course its faster here, the line is allot shorter it has less poor people in it.

Dennis Kucinich, Non profit Medicare for all!

[blondeatlast]

37. That was a GREAT point and should be part of every debate on the issue.

As Moore said, I'd, too, would be willing to wait if it meant my neighbor could get care too.

[piesRsquare]

39. Waiting times, my butt!

The wait times in this country can be just as bad--if not worse. The only difference is that OUR wait time is spent fighting with the insurance companies for approval of necessary treatment!

[SoCalDem]

58. We have tip-top primo union insurance & my husband had to wait

SIX MONTHS to see an endocrinologist and FIVE months to get a freaking hearing test :wtf:

[and-justice-for-all]

40. It is all Nixons fault we have the 'health care system'...

if you want to call it that, we have. He should be dug up and burned for this treason.

Any country that works against UHC, is a facist/corperate loving pig.

[moc]

42. I just watched the rerun. The insurance shill lady is a liar.

She said we pay more but we have better outcomes. Uh, no we don't, not if you look at our overall health statistics. Yes, if you can pay you get excellent care in this country. However, for the population as a whole, our health indicators suck - highest infant mortality of any developed country in the world, huge disparities in chronic diseases, huge disparities in all cause mortality, etc etc.

[antigop]

43. It was a great I especially liked it when Oprah yelled,"I can't wait for a bone marrow transplant."

"I don't have time to shop around if I need a transplant --I need it NOW. I'm sick. Don't make me shop around."

(Not the exact words -- but that was the gist of it.)

[antigop]

44. It was also great when that guy from Princeton said we shouldn't be called "consumers"

He said if we are referred to as "consumers" instead of "patients", then there is something wrong.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

45. Professor Reinhardt was great.

He pointed out that "socialized medicine" is a scare word. Moore pointed out that we have socialized police and fire and utilities.

Moore's best lines:

1. To the insurance lobbyist: "I don't want ONE DOLLAR of my taxes to go to your profit!".

2. Saying that all major religions say you should take care of your less fortunate brother, that instead of "socialized medicine" we should call it "Christianized medicine" and he quoted from Jesus saying you should feed the hungry etc.

I've seen him use that term before, and it's a good sound bite.

3. He pointed out that soldiers have socialized medicine in the V.A. to take care of them.

4. Telling the lobbyist "You own those guys", referring to the Congresscritters.

The lobbyist woman kept babbling about "centers of excellence we send people to in Houston, at the Mayo Clinic, blah blah blah" totally avoiding the question.

When she said they paid 5 billion claims a year, Moore pointed out that with 300 million Americans, did that mean that the average American went to the doctor 20 times a year?

[WinkyDink]

63. To digress slightly: EVERY U.S. institution labels us "consumers".

The MOST egregious, IMO, is in education, where children are "products". Of course, superintendents LOVE to think of themselves as "CEO's", and want to be paid as if.

[nadinbrzezinski]

46. I have insurance and it took me six months to

see the skin doctor... for a non life threatening mole.

That is average for Canada too

Read the above, non threatening.

Oh and my coverage is pretty good.

[Hieronymus]

48. Many Americans know that what you say is true. According to Harper's

Index, 51% of republicans want universal health care.

[redqueen]

55. That's why I can't stand the excuses why they won't pass single-payer.

It's there in the house, right now, with over 80 co-sponsors.

Which senator will stop sucking up to the industry and spouting their lies, and just introduce a matching bill already?

[Lasher]

51. Michael Moore on Oprah (video)

I just posted this episode of the Oprah show in the DU video forum. Here's part 1 of 6 parts:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x58325

[Vinca]

56. It will take time, but eventually the Republican talking points will be

chipped away and exposed as the pandering to the insurance industry that they are. I read a New Brunswick newspaper online in an area where we're thinking of moving to. There was a story about a little boy on an island in the Bay of Fundy who hadn't been feeling well and accompanied his mother on her doctor's appointment on the mainland. Turns out the little kid had a life-threatening condition and he was immediately transferred to a center that specialized in treatment of that particular illness - in Ontario, I think. He was treated for months and months, but finally recovered and was able to return to his home on the island. His family didn't lose their home. They didn't require bake sales to pay for his care. He had no appointment on the day he was diagnosed and not a second of waiting time.

[riverdeep]

57. ok, here's one statistic I don't get-

She said the insurance industry pays out 5 billion claims a year, only 3 percent are denied. Of those denied, 80 percent are denied because of experimental status. So, only 0.6 percent of claims are denied in the course of 'normal' medical procedures? If true, then why is there so much dissatisfaction?

I will say, she's got some guts, or the money drives the pangs of conscience far, far away. She's standing up in front of Americans and saying, basically, 'I'm the one pulling the plug on Grandma!'

[glarius]

59. Adding to my original thread: this concerns manufacturers & health care.

One of the reasons businesses, like Toyota, for instance, locate in our country is because they don't have to worry about health care deals for their employees....I just this morning heard the woman on CNN who talks about business matters, saying that a big problem with Ford and General Motors is that it costs them a fortune for health care for their workers. You would have thought this would have lead the conversation to discussing universal health care, but of course they ignored the point all together.
Since saving or making money is of prime importance to manufacturers, this is something the American advocates for Universal health care should be emphasizing, don't you think?